Man U reaction and player ratings

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I think we’ve reached the stage with Arteta that we can gleam that unlike Klopp there isn’t going to be a turning point that turns us into contenders. We are dealing with someone who whilst they have greater tactical understanding has too many glaring negatives.
This summer and last summer were a disaster in the transfer market. 50 million wasted on Ben White when we didn’t need him, almost 70 million wasted this summer on Zinchenko and Vieira. If we were going to bring in Zinchenko at all which should be dubious as he’s too slow and not good enough defensively or technically it should have been after selling Tierney. Vieira the same unless we were going to sell Smith Rowe

Then we’ve got the right back situation, where two centre backs are playing at right back

This is even before you get to the disaster of central midfield and the clear mismanagement of giving Elneny and Xhaka new contracts.

With the money we’ve spent I actually think a top coach could have identified the kind of players to make us title contenders, as it stands after yesterday I think our chances of top four are zero.

So with a combination of shocking transfer policy and in game management that tanks the team the only question that is left for me is when do the club cut its losses with both Arteta and Edu.

Fans of course will obsess over VAR and other decisions they don’t think went our way, rather than identify correctly that it’s unsustainable to carry on with Arteta. We don’t have the money as a club to waste money the way he does and set us up to fail.

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I think you are being a little harsh, yes our transfer priorities have been questionable but we need to give Zinchenko and Vieira time. Zinchenko has been decent so far and Vieira looked good in his cameo yesterday. Yes we have other pressing issues to deal with in the team but I trust they can sort them out, they have to as it's obvious what this team needs.

I am not fully sold on Arteta yet but the team is making big progress now, that is undeniable.

Ben White is a decent option to have covering RB or CB, yes we have overpaid for him but he's a decent option TBH, a reliable performer.

Solution is to drop White to the bench and play Tomi in his natural position. White offers nothing special at RB even though he is giving it a go to please the manager who wants to fit him in by all means. We have 3 decent CB`s, rotate them and make them infinitely flexible and compatible as a back 2. drop Xhaka for all the bove reasons too. He tries but is not of the resuired quality. Vieira was bought for a reason. He should play when Partey is unavailable which will be a lot, make him compatible with Lokonga and Zinchenko or whoever is available to partner Partey

our forward options are good. We need a new striker option as well though. Jesus alone cant score all the goals we need

Arteta is a bust. long winded experiment that has already plateaued in my opinion, especially given the competition we are up against.

We keep playing the football while the opposing team scores the goals

We will see this kind of result against the top 6...and others if Arteta doesnt get his head out of his own ass.

No I’m not being a little harsh, I’m being very harsh. But I’m still fucking furious, I can’t remember the last time a defeat made me so cross….it was so unnecessary.

But in fairness I do have question marks over the transfers, Saliba, Gabriel and White are all very good central defenders I think we’ve honestly got better centre backs than any team in the league currently. But three top centre backs is surplus to requirements….and in fact it’s counter productive because all three are going to insist on playing week in, week out (makes sense) so Ben White is playing at right back because Arteta can’t drop him. Therefore of course with the benefit of hindsight you have to ask was it wise spending fifty million on him?

But at right back we’ve got Tomoyasu (who ain’t a right back and lacks the skill set to be one) and Cedric who is slow and weak


Then we turn to left back, if we need established cover for Tierney because he’s an injury liability why are we keeping him especially when City have shown interest. We could have saved money on what we spent on Zinchenko (still not convinced by him) and kept Tavares as a back up


If anything Arteta has made the central midfield weaker. We had when he came here Torreira and Guendouzi now neither player in my view is great but both better than Xhaka and Elneny. Those two are gone and Xhaka and Elneny are given new contracts why?
Partey yes he’s a good midfielder but it’s shocking that you pointed out that he’s only played 58% of our league games (shocking but not sadly surprising). And Lokonga is ok but still inferior to Torreira and Guendouzi

Odegaard? I mean I hate to say it but when has he been anything but anonymous in games like the ones yesterday. Vieira makes sense as a purchase only if we hadn’t bought Odegaard to begin with

The main issue with our squad is that it’s not balanced well, and I think the quixotic nature of our summer spending if anything only adds to it

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

No I’m not being a little harsh, I’m being very harsh. But I’m still fucking furious, I can’t remember the last time a defeat made me so cross….it was so unnecessary.

But in fairness I do have question marks over the transfers, Saliba, Gabriel and White are all very good central defenders I think we’ve honestly got better centre backs than any team in the league currently. But three top centre backs is surplus to requirements….and in fact it’s counter productive because all three are going to insist on playing week in, week out (makes sense) so Ben White is playing at right back because Arteta can’t drop him. Therefore of course with the benefit of hindsight you have to ask was it wise spending fifty million on him?

But at right back we’ve got Tomoyasu (who ain’t a right back and lacks the skill set to be one) and Cedric who is slow and weak


Then we turn to left back, if we need established cover for Tierney because he’s an injury liability why are we keeping him especially when City have shown interest. We could have saved money on what we spent on Zinchenko (still not convinced by him) and kept Tavares as a back up


If anything Arteta has made the central midfield weaker. We had when he came here Torreira and Guendouzi now neither player in my view is great but both better than Xhaka and Elneny. Those two are gone and Xhaka and Elneny are given new contracts why?
Partey yes he’s a good midfielder but it’s shocking that you pointed out that he’s only played 58% of our league games (shocking but not sadly surprising). And Lokonga is ok but still inferior to Torreira and Guendouzi

Odegaard? I mean I hate to say it but when has he been anything but anonymous in games like the ones yesterday. Vieira makes sense as a purchase only if we hadn’t bought Odegaard to begin with

The main issue with our squad is that it’s not balanced well, and I think the quixotic nature of our summer spending if anything only adds to it

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I feel your pain. I am angry too hence why I have been actively posting since the game. It's a difficult to defeat to take especially against those lot who are talking up their victory like it was a walk in the park.

What has pissed me off more than anything is that even a draw yesterday would have sent out a big statement considering we controlled pretty much the entire game.

It is what it is, let's hope we recover from that and go on another mini winning run, this team is clearly capable of that.

It was a walk in the park for them. I don’t believe they will score three easier goals

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

It was a walk in the park for them. I don’t believe they will score three easier goals

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It wasn't a walk in the park. We were not clinical and defended poorly. Aside from the first 15 minutes, they had no control over the game whatsoever, it's not like we just dominated possession, we created plenty of chances too.

What we need to learn from yesterday is to not go to places such as Spurs or Chelsea and defend like that, even say a West Ham or Newcastle. We need to be going to these grounds dominating the ball like we did yesterday but being streetwise too, slowing the game down, doing the dark arts stuff.

Up until this season, we would go to Old Trafford and places like that and actually get outplayed, yesterday was different as is the development of this team. I think we can take a lot of positives from yesterday, the issues we saw can be fixed.

I know some people can view this as an excuse but it is a young team with a young manager. We are not going to get perfect performances against our rivals away from home. Now we are at the stage where we look like a team with high technical potential and the ability to dominate the ball, refining the other sides of our game should be something that can be worked on. That performance yesterday would have got us 3 points against most teams outside of the top 6 IMO.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I think we’ve reached the stage with Arteta that we can gleam that unlike Klopp there isn’t going to be a turning point that turns us into contenders.

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I don't think that's a revelation, no one of here really thought he could do that. Personally though I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt while we are making progress under him, which I'd suggest we clearly have.
I don't know if that will continue this year, there have been some good signs and some signs of old frailties. But the season is still quite young. It's going to be tough out there this year.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I don't think that's a revelation, no one of here really thought he could do that. Personally though I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt while we are making progress under him, which I'd suggest we clearly have.
I don't know if that will continue this year, there have been some good signs and some signs of old frailties. But the season is still quite young. It's going to be tough out there this year.

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The fact is if you spend 300million you would expect that to have occurred by now. Already qualified for 4th, already making inroads towards a title challenge

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Originally Posted by selassie

It wasn't a walk in the park. We were not clinical and defended poorly. Aside from the first 15 minutes, they had no control over the game whatsoever, it's not like we just dominated possession, we created plenty of chances too.

What we need to learn from yesterday is to not go to places such as Spurs or Chelsea and defend like that, even say a West Ham or Newcastle. We need to be going to these grounds dominating the ball like we did yesterday but being streetwise too, slowing the game down, doing the dark arts stuff.

Up until this season, we would go to Old Trafford and places like that and actually get outplayed, yesterday was different as is the development of this team. I think we can take a lot of positives from yesterday, the issues we saw can be fixed.

I know some people can view this as an excuse but it is a young team with a young manager. We are not going to get perfect performances against our rivals away from home. Now we are at the stage where we look like a team with high technical potential and the ability to dominate the ball, refining the other sides of our game should be something that can be worked on. That performance yesterday would have got us 3 points against most teams outside of the top 6 IMO.

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But that’s why it was a walk in the park, they didn’t have to excel. In defence they couldn’t excel and in attack they didn’t need to it was alarmingly easy for them. I can’t imagine many of them broke a sweat.

It wasn’t possible for them to play any worse than they did

But we will leave it to the end of the season to judge, if they score any goal that was any more gift wrapped to them between now and the end of the season than the three they got yesterday were I’ll take it back and say it wasn’t a stroll in the park.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

The fact is if you spend 300million you would expect that to have occurred by now. Already qualified for 4th, already making inroads towards a title challenge

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Well. I kinda agree progress has been slow given the level of investment. I think we'd have finished top 4 last year had Auba not flounced out. I don't think you can entirely blame Arteta for that.
They're a young squad, they should in theory get better. They seem to be buying in to "the process". I'm content to give them this season. If we don't progress then fine, #ArtetaOut. But changing a manager can set you back too so we'd need to be careful about who we get in.