I dont know what he does for the club but i have no doubt hes the worst in the world at whatever he does
Much like Wenger :good:
Thats a bad combo
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I dont know what he does for the club but i have no doubt hes the worst in the world at whatever he does
Much like Wenger :good:
Thats a bad combo
Therein lies the baffling mong standard of evaluation as far as logical processes goes. If you insist that you’re the wise one who can clearly see Wenger’s done a poor job for years and should be removed from the club at all cost since yesterday, but are still willing to give the board special concession by either trying to understand their point of view or empathise with their motives or agenda, then surely any person who’s trying to evaluate the situation from a neutral perspective has to make a determination of who is right or wrong here at the end of the day, since what you’re preaching is in fact contradictory to what the board is advocating?Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeYank
The only 100% irrefutable facts here are; Wenger’s an employee with no power of self appointment while control without any doubt lies with the board/owner. Since it’s already well established that the board is firmly behind Wenger and regards you Wenger-outs as mongs; if you’re still hesitant in pointing the finger at the board as the source of all problems behind our current demise, don’t you realise to any neutral third party looking in, there’s only one way out of the conundrum? Still adamant that the board is not the main culprit? Then as far as any logical person is concerned, there’s only one conclusion or 'donkey references' to be drawn.
I'll be honest... I did not really make out everything you said in that. Its probably because your english is amazing or I am super hungover or both but I think what you said is that board is to blame and AW is the scapegoat.. well, here is why I want AW to go before the board:Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Ghel
- AW has mentioned that he will never take interference from the board when it comes to selection of team or meddling with football affairs (Quotes were presented by TEG from an interview asking him about the Real Madrid coaching position)
- AW is in charge of our shambolic defense of 5 seasons.. he can hire a defensive coach and I am 1000% sure that the board wouldnt have a problem with that. So why hasnt he?
- AW is in charge of playing players constantly out of position.. Arshavin, Theo, Eduardo, Bendy, Vela, Diaby on the left/right (who remembers that?) to name a few.. the board doesnt do that... AW does
- AW has the authority to design the dressing rooms of the teams, spas and also to reduce the price of Cesc to sell to Cuntalunia. So I do not understand how you can say AW has no authority..
- Why didnt AW sign Scott Parker or Arteta earlier? Surely the board wouldve sanctioned that... it shouldnt have taken a 8-2 mauling at our so called rivals to change.
What I mentioned above is mostly footballing stuff which the board doesnt have much input for or wouldve clearly not said a 'No' to AW.. Besides AW has constantly told the fans to judge him at the end of every season and he has failed miserably. So yes, I will give more time to the board than Arsene..
I've never said he has more power than the Board. He has great influence and is well respected but he's not the ultimate authority. That's not my argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner
I just have a problem when people are willing to look past Wenger's actions and words but lay into the Board.
That's another point people keep missing. What's happening right now on the pitch is down to Wenger's management style. No matter how messed up things are upstairs, he should be able to whip that team into shape. It's the one area he has complete control over and it doesn't take £100m to get players to track back and defend. We shouldn't be leaking goals like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeYank
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
AW was in fact one of the main man responsible for appointing Gazidis. Which other manager in the world has that much power?
After reading the back and forth posts, I kind of get both sides. . . .
1) Wenger really is the ultimate culprit (players must shoulder some of the blame) for the going ons on the pitch
2) but I also understand the side of the argument that at the end of the day he is an employee who must get the final nod from the board. . .however his power in this point is immense indeed, hence input into absolutely every level of the club.
This all makes me believe that both parties are in a way making a rod for their own backs as I believe that the board have very little knowledge of the game and are being lead along by Wenger and Wenger is quite happy doing the leading, especially when there is very little challenge to his extremely remunerated position.
There is always going to be a board and we are always going to need a manager and when the shit finally hits the fan it will be Wenger who goes first but how is the question.
The board do not have the balls to sack Wenger based on what he has done for us in the past and he is still our most sucessful manager, which is mainly the reason why I do not join in the witch hunts but I do wish he would have the sense to walk awau himself, I am optimistic about our future but with AW in charge that optimism is slightly misted.
I wish for a manager to be brought in that will be very clear with the board about what is needed and that the sucess of the club financially depend s alot on what goes on on the pitch, and that sucess on the pitch requires bringing in the talent to win games, not throw games away at set pieces or by fielding sub standard line-ups to be humiliated 8:2.
These days world wide appeal is what brings in the money and we are losing that. . . .one example of this is the footie mags we get over here. They all like to go through the leagues and highlight certain teams, they will feature double pages of the squads, the players rumoured to be coming and going etc What has happened over the last couple of years is that Arsenal has been relegated from the third PL team fratured to if we are lucky the fifth, and the other day we were the sixth behind the Scum and we had a half page! Sure we can go out and buy the token Japanese or Korean, but not play them! smacks of Wenger all over, bith Miya and Young have now played in Europe and a move to Arsenal for them is a dream they must be gagging to live. TBH we dont know what they are made of but I would imagine they are thinking that they could do a damm sight better than the crap they are witnessing.
The fact that Wenger keeos getting the freedom to underachieve is quite extraordinary, especially in modern sports, I imagine again, it us the sucess that he has brought to the club that is his ace up the sleeve, but I follow a lot of American sports and six years without sucess will see you picking up your P45 in a flash, no room for sentiment unless you are someone like Phil Jackson or SAF - actually that argument is not only in America, its world-wide!
Which begs the question, what is the power Wenger has? he must be in bed with the board, which basically means they are BOTH very much to BLAME.
:gp:
A good post and sums out my perspective on the relationship between the Board and Wenger.
for once i agree lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
It is astonishing to me how you can miss the point of my post entirely under the pretext of chronic cognitive disability due to some alcohol induced dementia when you evidently exhibit no such frailties in forming coherent sentences or even attempt an analysis that has little bearing to the point I was making. It’s not as if I don’t understand or even sympathise with your view, or that my post is some complicated literary masterpiece or logical abstract beyond the intellectual capacity of an average yank or bengali (or whatever it is you are known as in this part of the woods); but how you can interpret my post as an endeavour to imply that Arsene is a scapegoat is beyond me and exists only in your deranged mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by FakeYankI'll be honest... I did not really make out everything you said in that. Its probably because your english is amazing or I am super hungover or both but I think what you said is that board is to blame and AW is the scapegoat.. well, here is why I want AW to go before the board:Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Ghel
Etc....
Look, I’m not even trying to disagree with your points or the various faults you’re pinning on Wenger (not that I don’t think it is not ultimately a futile exercise in objectivity, considering you have problems digesting two mere paragraphs); but in case you are not aware, I do belong to the school of thought that subscribes to the logic that BOTH Wenger and the board are to be blamed! Got that? I’ve stated it numerous times in the past and I’ll say it again. It’s a symbiotic relationship from which there’s little chance of escape. You understand my view now? Just so there’s no further confusion or another mental relapse on your part, I’ll offer a further detailed but simpler elaboration below for your benefit, so please try to flex your cerebral matter a bit and digest the rationale, cos’ I am not going to waste anymore time if you can’t even venture out of your natural state of mental paralysis as far as reading comprehension is concerned.
Basically, as I hinted above, the gist of my post is not to absolve Wenger of blame. And it’s got absolutely fuck all to do with some idiotic insinuation that I’m missing the point about Wenger’s shortcomings or flaws (footballistically or otherwise). That’s not what I’m contesting here! Look, I could easily contribute and join in with the mindless ad nauseum frenzy about Wenger (which I’m sure will help ease your mental constipation and a few usual suspects around here); but no, what I’m asking you to consider is:
What is the fucking point of bleating on endlessly about Wenger, if at the end of the day, you are prepared to cut the board some slack, give them time or whatever it is you think is appropriate (be it trying to understand their point of view, empathise with their motives or whatever it is you feel they’re entitled to)? Because if you do so, then any impartial person who is trying to evaluate the situation objectively from a neutral perspective has the right and is legitimately of sound mind, to conclude that you are a mong! And that is the essence of my point! Not difficult is it?
How so you ask? It’s simple deduction based on the principle of logical consistency! Explain? Well, if you do not apportion the majority of blame towards the board first (regardless of how justified you feel that Wenger is the problem), then from a logical standpoint, there is little, to no consistency in your argument compared to the board’s absolutely symmetrical stance on the subject. Don’t you see the obvious logical flaw? Then try and answer the following questions to see if it finally hits home.
Who the fuck are you in the grand scheme things compared to the board in determining Wenger’s fate and the immediate direction of the club? What is the fucking point and why are you going in circles or what are you hoping to achieve with this endless ad nauseum exorcism of Wenger? Is it not to see Wenger removed from the club at all cost? So if you want to Wenger out, but is prepared to give the board time or cut them some slack or whatever, then don’t you see there is a big gaping hole at the very fundamental levels of what you’re advocating?
So here are the facts again to any neutral observer: In one corner we have the board/owner who are in control of the club; whose stance on the subject is crystal clear and consistent. They are firmly behind their employee of the decade and regard you, the Wenger out clan as mongs. And in the other corner, we have you, the dependable Wenger out hit squad, who makes no counter claim or dispute to the board’s assertion that you are mongs (either by abstinence or implied level of blame) but chose to focus your anguish on the one person in the equation who has no power of self-appointment to keep this travesty in a perpetual loop. Then tell me, how is any neutral, objective person supposed to resolve the conundrum since the views of both camps (You vs. Board) are diametrically opposed to each other? Who is right and who is the mong? Don’t you see, regardless of who you feel is more to blame, if you are not prepared to target the board as the source of the problem, but want Wenger out of the club ASAP, there’s only one logical verdict to any unbiased observer?
Still adamant that you are right? That the board should be given time or take a lesser apportionment of the blame? Then let’s go a step further and see if the principle of logical consistency applies to the issue of whether Wenger should consider resignation. To any neutral arbitrator, the following questions needs to be answered. Who has the right to determine the immediate direction or focus of the club? Is it the supporters who want a steady stream of trophies and bragging rights? Or does that right belong to the stakeholders who paid the millions to exercise legal control of the club? As an employee, who should Wenger cater to?
So why should Wenger contemplate resigning if he is delivering what is asked of him and meeting the performance targets set out by his employers? Why should he give up his hard earned pay or bite the hand that feeds him? Has he not earned the right to be remunerated like any employee? When the ‘hand’ wanted pitchside glory, he delivered trophies, when the same hand later wished for “shareholder value”, he delivered on that front as well, and then some. Heck, he’s even compared to the likes of Warren Buffet in his field. Surely there can be no greater accolade? So the pertinent question remains to any impartial observer, who the fuck are you Wenger-outs and what makes you more of an expert in determining what is best for the club when you can’t even resolve or offer a consistent logical agenda? Why the fuck should Wenger pay any attention to you when you make no counter claims or arguments to the board’s assertion that you are mongs? See how this logic failure leads to many problems?
So FY, after all that, do you still maintain that the board should be given time and not shoulder the majority of the blame? Then if all my “amazing English” above is too much for you to handle and the logic still escapes you, then just take home this message if nothing else. TO THE NEUTRAL ABRITATORS OUT THERE, YOU ARE A MONG IF YOU DO NOT CHANGE YOUR STANCE ON THE ISSUE. Not hard to understand is it? Perhaps you care to dispute their logical conclusion?