Wenger Out?

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Originally Posted by Joker

You are the most boring **** on this messageboard. How about changing the fucking record and making a decent post once in a while, rather than pathetic little digs at me, which is all you seem to do.

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tbf joker we could say the exact same about you with your stupid fucking posts about RVP not doing enough. you could have value in what you said baout him if he hadnt scored 44 goals in 45 prem games, several winners and equalisers and general bullshit about him

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

So Wenger not mouthing the exact words i said means he never said he believes this team will make progress in the near future.

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I'm not sure what he's said but you can't just make up stuff about what Wenger says or where we were in the table at a certain point and then get all stroppy when I pick you up on it.

Do you think this season has been that bad? I think parts of it have but other parts have been brilliant. Recently we've shown some real fight and got some great results. There was a run earlier in the season where we did that and then slumped just after Christmas so I don't know what to make of us as a team right now. But I tell you one thing for free, I didn't expect us to be top 4 at this stage of the season and I doubt you did either. I didn't think we'd be 1 point off Spurs - a team who the media have been jizzing over all season and who were touted as serious title contenders. The team and Wenger deserve some credit for us being there.

To say people who support Wenger 'wont hear anything against him' is ludicrous. "Wenger can do no wrong" and "Wenger is a bumbling idiot" are not the only two positions. Both of those are extreme positions and both are ludicrous. Only the real WUMs on here take either position - and they don't really believe that either, they're just looking for a reaction. There are many far more sensible shades of grey in between those two positions

Wenger has, IMO, done well to keep us in the top 4 year on year despite the spending power of billionaire owners and other clubs spending big to try (and usually fail) to unseat us. BUT, we've not won a trophy for far too long for a club of our stature. And fundamental problems have been allowed to persist for far too long without being addressed. That is damning and Wenger should have been sacked for that. The issue for me is whether we're progressing. Right now I see signs that we are but I accept that there have been false dawns before.

Of course the team has deficiencies. EVERY team has deficiencies. The issue is whether Wenger is the right person to lessen those deficiencies and whether someone else could do so better (given that we have a board who seem to value profit over investment in the squad). I just don't know any more but right now I'm enjoying the football we're playing, enjoying the fight that the squad are showing and am cautiously optimistic about how things are going. In a few games if we've fell apart again I might feel differently.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

So Wenger not mouthing the exact words i said means he never said he believes this team will make progress in the near future. Are we in a court of law here?. I suppose contrary to what I have said, Wenger has actually promised us that next year will be worse or just as bad as this. Sheesh!. You Wenger apologists simply wont hear anything against him and in his defence you resort to nitpicking words and nuances. So we were never 15th this season at a time when Manu were already in the top 5. How are you going to finish first when you habitually give more than capable opposition a 10 point head start. I suppose wonderful Wenger can probably climb Everest with one hand and no rope While Fergie straps on the GPS laden equipment.

I can see that us fans are split in 2 distinct groups. 1 who think we are basically punching above our weight and great things should actually be beyond us and those who think footie is played on the park with equal number of players and a capable set of people working in the background. It is disingenious to think what we say on thees boards is irrelevant. it probably is, since disgruntled fans have existed long before the internet. it however does not make it less salient the way the game makes each and everyone of us feel.

This team, this club has deficiencies, this is an incontrovertible fact. In 99.9% of other clubs, the manager is where the correction begins. The only question which is what the poll asks is if we want to start with this change or not.

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Top post fella top post, and your right Arsenal fans are split into to groups. For me its what is success we may not all agree but it does not make anyone of us on here less ambitious then anyone else.

Lets be real in the era of the billionaire in the 1st 3 seasons from 2006-2008 its clear we had no money (repaying of loans for the stadium) and the target was 4th plain and simple and Wenger delivered. the next 4 years 2009- 2012. Between these years we had good enough squads to win a trophy which really should have been the aim, Even though We were Challenging we were never going to win the league why, not enough quality was added to win the league even though we had enough to challenge.

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Originally Posted by Letters

To say people who support Wenger 'wont hear anything against him' is ludicrous. "Wenger can do no wrong" and "Wenger is a bumbling idiot" are not the only two positions. Both of those are extreme positions and both are ludicrous. Only the real WUMs on here take either position - and they don't really believe that either, they're just looking for a reaction. There are many far more sensible shades of grey in between those two positions

Wenger has, IMO, done well to keep us in the top 4 year on year despite the spending power of billionaire owners and other clubs spending big to try (and usually fail) to unseat us. BUT, we've not won a trophy for far too long for a club of our stature. And fundamental problems have been allowed to persist for far too long without being addressed. That is damning and Wenger should have been sacked for that. The issue for me is whether we're progressing. Right now I see signs that we are but I accept that there have been false dawns before.

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Yep agree with this letters. Just because people don't say Wenger out every week don't make then then Wenger in brigade or fans who have been conned.

Big question is why was AW given so much time on this project? Should have been given a target of 3 years and with failure should have been sacked.

Will a new manager be allowed to remain here for this long if he don't win nout in the next 3 years or will it be samey same.

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

When AW was signed, did you know who he was? How many of you had RVP's smile from last night when he signed in 96? I'd think no one... so why not get someone who looks promising and can do a good job?

If we want a 100% top manager, there is Capello & Riijkard (off the top of my head)

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Football changes with time mate . I doubt this is the time to give the job to an inexperienced manager at the Grove . When Wenger signed he was already a top manager even though he was unknown in England . He didi a great job at Monaco winning the league and tasted the old version of champions League as well . He gave to the japanese the legacy in football with Nagoya Grampus . He has started a great job at the Emirates . Let him finish it first . He will move on one day . Capello or Riijkard for Wenger ? Well Capello was a great manager with AC Milan but England just exposed him . Do you think he will be confident strait away to fill Wenger's boots ? I'm not sure about .
And Riijkard ? He inherited Barcelona and made us believe he was a top coach . By the way , where is he ? Why can't he prove it somewhere else before he takes charge of Arsenal ? I'm tempted to believe Barca was a one-off . Don't you see everyone managing Barcelona looks a good manager ? Question is : Is Barca making them look great or the managers making Barca great ? If so, why Barca are changing them ?

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Originally Posted by Alpha

Football changes with time mate . I doubt this is the time to give the job to an inexperienced manager at the Grove . When Wenger signed he was already a top manager even though he was unknown in England . He didi a great job at Monaco winning the league and tasted the old version of champions League as well . He gave to the japanese the legacy in football with Nagoya Grampus . He has started a great job at the Emirates . Let him finish it first . He will move on one day . Capello or Riijkard for Wenger ? Well Capello was a great manager with AC Milan but England just exposed him . Do you think he will be confident strait away to fill Wenger's boots ? I'm not sure about .
And Riijkard ? He inherited Barcelona and made us believe he was a top coach . By the way , where is he ? Why can't he prove it somewhere else before he takes charge of Arsenal ? I'm tempted to believe Barca was a one-off . Don't you see everyone managing Barcelona looks a good manager ? Question is : Is Barca making them look great or the managers making Barca great ? If so, why Barca are changing them ?

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Put it this way if pep game here we'd still not be as good as barca in fact where ever he went they not be as good as Barca. Its the way the whole club is run and it will take ages to do it anywhere else.

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Put it this way if pep game here we'd still not be as good as barca in fact where ever he went they not be as good as Barca. Its the way the whole club is run and it will take ages to do it anywhere else.

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Well obviously Pep wouldn't turn us or anyone else into Barca, that goes without saying. However to put his success down to the players does a disservice to him because Barca were not the side we see today under Rijkaard.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Well obviously Pep wouldn't turn us or anyone else into Barca, that goes without saying. However to put his success down to the players does a disservice to him because Barca were not the side we see today under Rijkaard.

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Too right and id never say it was not down to him, he has done wonders with them, but the way the club is run is a way most should be imo.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Well obviously Pep wouldn't turn us or anyone else into Barca, that goes without saying. However to put his success down to the players does a disservice to him because Barca were not the side we see today under Rijkaard.

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But you can't deny the quality of players make the job easy for any manager .Even Rednapp would win the the league , champions league , FA cup , Carling cup the same year with a team boasting players such as Messi , Fabregas , Iniesta , Xavi , David Villa ..etc..I think Barca have a very solid team . From the academy to the first team they are amazing and any manager would look world class .

I'm not being funny - give me a squad with Messi, Iniesta and Xavi in and I'd fucking win the Champions League.

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Originally Posted by Alpha

But you can't deny the quality of players make the job easy for any manager .Even Rednapp would win the the league , champions league , FA cup , Carling cup the same year with a team boasting players such as Messi , Fabregas , Iniesta , Xavi , David Villa ..etc..I think Barca have a very solid team . From the academy to the first team they are amazing and any manager would look world class .

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Not really.

Take ****esc out of that then id agree

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Originally Posted by Alpha

Football changes with time mate . I doubt this is the time to give the job to an inexperienced manager at the Grove . When Wenger signed he was already a top manager even though he was unknown in England . He didi a great job at Monaco winning the league and tasted the old version of champions League as well . He gave to the japanese the legacy in football with Nagoya Grampus . He has started a great job at the Emirates . Let him finish it first . He will move on one day . Capello or Riijkard for Wenger ? Well Capello was a great manager with AC Milan but England just exposed him . Do you think he will be confident strait away to fill Wenger's boots ? I'm not sure about .
And Riijkard ? He inherited Barcelona and made us believe he was a top coach . By the way , where is he ? Why can't he prove it somewhere else before he takes charge of Arsenal ? I'm tempted to believe Barca was a one-off . Don't you see everyone managing Barcelona looks a good manager ? Question is : Is Barca making them look great or the managers making Barca great ? If so, why Barca are changing them ?

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Wenger started a job at Emirates since the move... I wouldnt call it a great job! We have become an Ajax of mid nineties.

As for Capello, I think he is a club manager rather than a national team manager and I think he will be rubbing his hands in glee at the prospect at proving a lot of people wrong in England. I agree to quite an extent about Barca.. they are a solid club regarding the playing system and the players they have.

Other top managers in the world- There is David Moyes, who while not rated by some Gooners, has done wonders at Everton. I bet he can do a great job here. We can also get Steve Bould in.. There are others I rate as well- Pelligrini, Billic, Hitzfeld etc

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

Wenger started a job at Emirates since the move... I wouldnt call it a great job! We have become an Ajax of mid nineties.

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Ajax won the CL in mid 90s and they produced quality players

We have done neither

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Originally Posted by fakeyank

We have become an Ajax of mid nineties.

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Awesome! They won the Champions League in 1995 :lol:

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Originally Posted by Grimandi's Perm

Awesome! They won the Champions League in 1995 :lol:

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You know what I mean... they sold their players.. more like late nineties! Gosh..

http://www.idlehearts.com/wp-content...le-640x309.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ach

Ajax won the CL in mid 90s and they produced quality players

We have done neither

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Theo Theo Theo

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Theo Theo Theo

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Came from Southampton

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Originally Posted by Letters

You can bet your house that the people now saying there's been no great pressure on recent games would have been the first to say we'd 'bottled it' had we lost those games. Some people have a clear anti-Wenger agenda and will do anything to belittle or dismiss any good run of form lest they inadvertently give him any credit.

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this is ridiculous. there is know anti-wenger agenda. from what ive seen written by others and from my perspective Wenger has done a poor job over the past 6 years given the resources he has at his disposal. he has made so many mistakes that most other managers in football AND other sports would get sacked for. this is not an anti-wenger agenda, those of us who want him out are fed up with the way he is doing things because its NOT working. thats why people want him out, the mistakes, the stubborness, the same bullshit is why people want him out.

why didnt we show this form leading in to all of our big cup games? or the big games earlier in the season where we needed to stay competitive in the league title race? why dont we do this when the big prize is there? its not a coincidence.

the reason why people are dismissing this run of form is because we've had a purple patch every season before this, we are battling for 4th place (wenger will say this is a trophy, but its not), wenger uses these kinds of runs to justify not buying, and fans use these runs to justify why Wenger should stay. history has shown us that his way has not worked, it has nothing to do with a anti-wenger agenda.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Lahey

this is ridiculous. there is know anti-wenger agenda. from what ive seen written by others and from my perspective Wenger has done a poor job over the past 6 years given the resources he has at his disposal. he has made so many mistakes that most other managers in football AND other sports would get sacked for. this is not an anti-wenger agenda, those of us who want him out are fed up with the way he is doing things because its NOT working. thats why people want him out, the mistakes, the stubborness, the same bullshit is why people want him out.

why didnt we show this form leading in to all of our big cup games? or the big games earlier in the season where we needed to stay competitive in the league title race? why dont we do this when the big prize is there? its not a coincidence.

the reason why people are dismissing this run of form is because we've had a purple patch every season before this, we are battling for 4th place (wenger will say this is a trophy, but its not), wenger uses these kinds of runs to justify not buying, and fans use these runs to justify why Wenger should stay. history has shown us that his way has not worked, it has nothing to do with a anti-wenger agenda.

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the 'anti-wenger' tag is as gay as the opposing 'pro-wenger brigade' i've seen written on here.

a lot of fans will remain fiercely loyal to a manager that has given us so many good times, whilst there are others ready for a change right now. people have legitimate reasons for wanting him to stay and for him to go if we're honest.

i was still with the manager up until christmas, after the resilience shown to come back from that start. then january came and we fell apart again.

keeping rvp means more right now than keeping the manager. wenger deserves some credit for the come backs we've had to go through this season but i get the feeling the group, in particular our captain, gathered that spirit more than the management. if wenger was to go (which he won't) then i think another manager could pick up where this lot are leaving things at the end of the season.

don't get me wrong, i'm loving the recent 5/6 games that have led to some great times on the terraces but my belief is no longer there for wenger to push any higher.

i couldn't care less about the money city/utd have as the english league remains more competitive than other countries and the chances will come for other well organised teams to push their noses in there too.

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Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

the 'anti-wenger' tag is as gay as the opposing 'pro-wenger brigade' i've seen written on here.

a lot of fans will remain fiercely loyal to a manager that has given us so many good times, whilst there are others ready for a change right now. people have legitimate reasons for wanting him to stay and for him to go if we're honest.

i was still with the manager up until christmas, after the resilience shown to come back from that start. then january came and we fell apart again.

keeping rvp means more right now than keeping the manager. wenger deserves some credit for the come backs we've had to go through this season but i get the feeling the group, in particular our captain, gathered that spirit more than the management. if wenger was to go (which he won't) then i think another manager could pick up where this lot are leaving things at the end of the season.

don't get me wrong, i'm loving the recent 5/6 games that have led to some great times on the terraces but my belief is no longer there for wenger to push any higher.

i couldn't care less about the money city/utd have as the english league remains more competitive than other countries and the chances will come for other well organised teams to push their noses in there too.

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good post and i agree that people will stay loyal to the manager.however this is what i have a problem with, loyalty should be to the club and whats best for the club. if wenger is not getting the job done than he has to go or he should walk himself. i to have enjoyed parts of this season but its not enough to justify wenger staying. you play the game to win...he isnt winning, hes gotta go.


Cosigned by Coach Edwards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I

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Originally Posted by Mr. Lahey

good post and i agree that people will stay loyal to the manager.however this is what i have a problem with, loyalty should be to the club and whats best for the club. if wenger is not getting the job done than he has to go or he should walk himself. i to have enjoyed parts of this season but its not enough to justify wenger staying. you play the game to win...he isnt winning, hes gotta go.


Cosigned by Coach Edwards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I

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Well he obviously is, to his employers why hence why they have no sacked him, To You and me he is failing to them he is not and thats what matters at end of the day sadly.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Lahey

good post and i agree that people will stay loyal to the manager.however this is what i have a problem with, loyalty should be to the club and whats best for the club. if wenger is not getting the job done than he has to go or he should walk himself. i to have enjoyed parts of this season but its not enough to justify wenger staying. you play the game to win...he isnt winning, hes gotta go.

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i think in most cases football fans would do but wenger is a dying breed of a manager staying with a top club for so long. you can see why so many fans, me included, hold a lot of respect for wenger and want him to do well. we all do. i think its normal for so many fans to be loyal/worried when an absolute legend is no longer working as he once did.

I want a change of Manager - I don't think we will win another trophy under him, it is to do with the mental strength (or lack of it) of the team when a prize is there to be won.

That said, while he is our Manager, I WANT him to do well - even if I think he won't. Some post here as if they WANT him to do poorly and that is what could be construed as an 'anti-Wenger agenda'.

But essentially, we are meant to be Arsenal supporters and the only agenda we should have is wanting what is best for the Club.

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Well he obviously is, to his employers why hence why they have no sacked him, To You and me he is failing to them he is not and thats what matters at end of the day sadly.

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agreed but this is a thread about if wenger should stay or go. he will be here next year because the board want him here. any other team would have sacked him a while ago.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Lahey

agreed but this is a thread about if wenger should stay or go. he will be here next year because the board want him here. any other team would have sacked him a while ago.

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Any other team? :sarcy:

It depends what you want - if you are a sugar daddy and you demand silverware and are prepared to throw anything at it, yeah. But only two teams have consistently outperformed Arsenal over the 7 barren seasons. I'm guessing they'd be the only two teams to have sacked Wenger.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Lahey

this is ridiculous. there is know anti-wenger agenda. from what ive seen written by others and from my perspective Wenger has done a poor job over the past 6 years given the resources he has at his disposal. he has made so many mistakes that most other managers in football AND other sports would get sacked for. this is not an anti-wenger agenda, those of us who want him out are fed up with the way he is doing things because its NOT working. thats why people want him out, the mistakes, the stubborness, the same bullshit is why people want him out.

why didnt we show this form leading in to all of our big cup games? or the big games earlier in the season where we needed to stay competitive in the league title race? why dont we do this when the big prize is there? its not a coincidence.

the reason why people are dismissing this run of form is because we've had a purple patch every season before this, we are battling for 4th place (wenger will say this is a trophy, but its not), wenger uses these kinds of runs to justify not buying, and fans use these runs to justify why Wenger should stay. history has shown us that his way has not worked, it has nothing to do with a anti-wenger agenda.

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:gp:

We look a much better side now that Rosicky is playing instead of Ramsey and now that we have our fullbacks available. But we all could see that we were struggling in certain areas yet Wenger insisted on trying to play the same way without adapting his tactics and it has cost us. This may sound harsh, but I don't think we're playing better because Wenger gave some rousing team speech or changed tactics. I think the players are trying to restore some pride after the horrid run and they have also seen that Wenger is in the firing line so they're stepping up their game. That's my opinion, but I could be wrong but Wenger isn't known for giving the hair dryer treatment and his philosophy on coaching is based on allowing the players to learn for themselves and he's not the type to shout instructions. It's an interesting theory. But coming out from this season, I think he will feel this team has learned a lot about themselves and grown in experience. That might hamper our transfer activity this summer. Also, it's like this team has to hit rock bottom and get embarrassed before they start playing proper football. They're not learning how to be Champions and how to deal with pressure. He will have to push them harder and get them to stop slacking off. I just don't think he has it in him to overhaul his philosophy. It has be boot camp with this team.

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Originally Posted by GB.

I want a change of Manager - I don't think we will win another trophy under him, it is to do with the mental strength (or lack of it) of the team when a prize is there to be won.

That said, while he is our Manager, I WANT him to do well - even if I think he won't. Some post here as if they WANT him to do poorly and that is what could be construed as an 'anti-Wenger agenda'.

But essentially, we are meant to be Arsenal supporters and the only agenda we should have is wanting what is best for the Club.

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This is how i feel

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Originally Posted by Mr. Lahey

agreed but this is a thread about if wenger should stay or go. he will be here next year because the board want him here. any other team would have sacked him a while ago.

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Agreed.

'Any other team' would not have sacked Wenger. Biggest myth levelled against him.

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Originally Posted by GB.

I want a change of Manager - I don't think we will win another trophy under him, it is to do with the mental strength (or lack of it) of the team when a prize is there to be won.

That said, while he is our Manager, I WANT him to do well - even if I think he won't. Some post here as if they WANT him to do poorly and that is what could be construed as an 'anti-Wenger agenda'.

But essentially, we are meant to be Arsenal supporters and the only agenda we should have is wanting what is best for the Club.

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fair enough, that makes sense however the anti-wenger agenda crowd know whats around the corner because its fucking groundhog day every year in North London. i can understand why some people are driven to wanting him to do poorly because if he doesnt get to that level than nothing will ever change. i dont condone this veiw or want wenger to do poorly but it seems the only way for things to change is for the results to continue to slide. history and word form managment have indicated this much.

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Originally Posted by GB.

Any other team? :sarcy:

It depends what you want - if you are a sugar daddy and you demand silverware and are prepared to throw anything at it, yeah. But only two teams have consistently outperformed Arsenal over the 7 barren seasons. I'm guessing they'd be the only two teams to have sacked Wenger.

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ok i overstretched on that point.

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Originally Posted by Dennis Bendtner

'Any other team' would not have sacked Wenger. Biggest myth levelled against him.

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Why is that myth? It's very rare to find a manager that has been at the helm of a top 4 team for over 15 years and won nothing in the last 6/7 years of his career. Most managers don't get a chance to build team after team at this level unless you keep winning silverware.

He'll see out his contract (as always) and then he'll go. At no point has the board ever given an indication they wanted him out. These guys are focused on money, not football. And Wenger is the best in the business (by a mile) at making money and judging the absolute bare minimum required (in terms of expenditure) to keep the money flowing in. I agree Wenger isn't the most tactically astute on the pitch. But I don't agree that will have any bearing in whether he will stay or go. It's all about the money.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Lahey

fair enough, that makes sense however the anti-wenger agenda crowd know whats around the corner because its fucking groundhog day every year in North London. i can understand why some people are driven to wanting him to do poorly because if he doesnt get to that level than nothing will ever change. i dont condone this veiw or want wenger to do poorly but it seems the only way for things to change is for the results to continue to slide. history and word form managment have indicated this much.

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The only way this Board are going to sack Wenger is if the team start losing money and that will not happen until we finish outside the CL places for at least two seasons. Now I appreciate this is only my view, but there is absolutely nothing coming from anyone on the Board or indeed either of the two main shareholders that would indicate otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Why is that myth? It's very rare to find a manager that has been at the helm of a top 4 team for over 15 years and won nothing in the last 6/7 years of his career. Most managers don't get a chance to build team after team at this level unless you keep winning silverware.

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Depends what you mean by winning, or whose point of view you examine. 14 years CL revenue is an unblemished track record of success to some, I'm sure.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

He'll see out his contract (as always) and then he'll go. At no point has the board ever given an indication they wanted him out. These guys are focused on money, not football. And Wenger is the best in the business (by a mile) at making money and judging the absolute bare minimum required (in terms of expenditure) to keep the money flowing in. I agree Wenger isn't the most tactically astute on the pitch. But I don't agree that will have any bearing in whether he will stay or go. It's all about the money.

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Excatly, If t hey were so bothered about him not winning a thing he'd be out ages ago. If their happy with top 4 then to him he has been a success and as the fans don't pay his wages in truth were irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Why is that myth? It's very rare to find a manager that has been at the helm of a top 4 team for over 15 years and won nothing in the last 6/7 years of his career. Most managers don't get a chance to build team after team at this level unless you keep winning silverware.

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It is also very rare to have found a Manager that has been at the helm of a top 4 team for 15 years. A population of 2 in fact.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Why is that myth? It's very rare to find a manager that has been at the helm of a top 4 team for over 15 years and won nothing in the last 6/7 years of his career. Most managers don't get a chance to build team after team at this level unless you keep winning silverware.

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Also rare to find one consistently making money for the club through performance and transfer profit. I'm fairly sure those in football have a lot of admiration for Wenger's work since the stadium build, and would snap your arm off for something similar.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Why is that myth? It's very rare to find a manager that has been at the helm of a top 4 team for over 15 years and won nothing in the last 6/7 years of his career. Most managers don't get a chance to build team after team at this level unless you keep winning silverware.

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Blame that on the Billionaire who keep buying these clubs and sacking managers when they don't give them quick success.

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Originally Posted by GB.

The only way this Board are going to sack Wenger is if the team start losing money and that will not happen until we finish outside the CL places for at least two seasons. Now I appreciate this is only my view, but there is absolutely nothing coming from anyone on the Board or indeed either of the two main shareholders that would indicate otherwise.

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i was assuming that as losing continued, people will begin to boo and eventually stop attending/watching/supporting. i agree with your viewpoint, that will be the only way he gets fired.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Depends what you mean by winning, or whose point of view you examine. 14 years CL revenue is an unblemished track record of success to some, I'm sure.

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I think it's worse when a manager doesn't strive to win trophies. He's a sportsman at the end of the day and that should be his ultimate goal.