Ozil leaving us just looks bad.
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Ozil leaving us just looks bad.
Everything is all up in the air, I know many cynically believe that Wenger will be here after next season come what may but i'm not convinced that's the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I think the board would always offer him a new contract come what may, but I don't believe for a second that the changing attitude from fans during runs of bad forms has not had a withering affect on him.
If this season goes pair shaped as most of us ultimately believe it will, things will be worse than they were March/April time especially if a contract remains unsigned and Fans believe that venting their dissatisfaction might actually have some leverage (i don't particularly like protesting myself but for sure i would consider it in such circumstances)
And if Wenger does go, than ultimately everything is up in the air, the prospect of a younger, dynamic manager coming in might cause Ozil to rethink (if he is planning to leave) or it might give him more justification to leave.
I get the distinct impression Sanchez will sign, but Ozil as with Wenger....great vast chasm of uncertainty.
Yeah if we lose either player it will set us back. We may as well pay them the big bucks because we won't replace either player adequately and besides...we'll be a weaker team without either of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
The message it will send out if either player leaves won't be good either, we should be able to retain all our best players now, we have absolutely no excuses not to pay them what they are worth because the money is there.
Ozil can be replaced. He needs to rack up the assists this season or start banging in the goals. We're not seeing anything exceptional besides that beautiful goal against Ludogorets.
Couldn't agree more. Wenger has paid kids too much in the past and very few of them have come through. Our top players see what they can earn at a top club and see what little squirts are earning and they're off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...latest-rumours
Marca at it again. Ozil hasn't ruled out a return to Madrid. Someone is plotting something.
Alexis would not be having the season he is currently showing with Ozil's movement. Its undeniable at this point.
If Pogba is worth 100 million, then Ozil is easily worth 150 million. If Real pay that, they are more than welcome to take him and go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Pogba had 3 years left on his contract, Ozil 18 months.
If he does leave, I'd be surprised if it was Real. Bayern/PSG/Juve are more likely options.
I think PSG is the likely move if he does indeed want to call it quits.
What kind of reaction would he garner if he did leave? I know our fanbase isn't as sold on him as they are with Alexis.
RVC level hate?
Depends really.
RVP only gets hate because of how he left and where he went.
And vice versa. These two have struck up a really good understanding this season. Losing one could be like losing both. I hope the fat, old blood suckers upstairs get their wallets out. Either this club is finally going somewhere or we're commencing on reset #99.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
PSG? I can't see it. Spain or Germany if he were to leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
i agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel_Quinn
They are basically our strike partnership.
He could go back to Germany or Spain and become another cog in the never ending wheel of success, but you often hear players talking about "the project" of a club like PSG, it could be more enticing for them to do something new. Especially for someone like Ozil who has already played for the biggest club in the world.
No doubt he will have his pick of the clubs though.
I hear that point but I don't think Ozil is at that stage of his career. If anything, we've kind of been his project club. It's the perfect time for him now at Arsenal to step out from the shadows of those at Real and not just be a cog in the wheel. But I'm not sure if he's that driven for the recognition in the same way Sanchez is. I can see him going back to Real. It's not as if he wanted to leave that system either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Probably not because the fingers will be pointed at Wenger and the board for either failure to win things or pay him enough. Plus players like RVC and Cesc were seen as 'part of the fold' young players developed from young with hopes they'd see out their career here (however unrealistic that was). If he left and had to face us again I think he'd get a decent or just indifferent reaction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Let's just win the bloody CL and put all this talk to rest. I mean FFS Wenger! Come on man! 20 years trying, isn't it about time? Stranger things have happened. Just pick the right fucking teams, have a go at analysing the opposition and come up with a few tactics, stop doing the 10 player rotation thing, settle on your first 11 and add some sanity to your squad rotation policies. Then hold a press conference and state you are going to win the fucking thing, no doubts, it's already in the bag. Just like you did when you said we'd go the season unbeaten. Everyone will laugh, so what. Make the fucking players believe it. Pick your go-to guys, Alexis, Ozil, Cech, Kos, Theo, Ramsey. Make them feel like leaders at the club. Enough of this stupid shit about captains not being important - THEY ARE! Convince these players we're doing something this year and then let them drag along the rest. Cut it out with the stupid technical perfection and beauty bullshit. Flamini was not a beautiful specimen of technical perfection when he held down the full back slot all the way to an unlucky loss to Barca last time we made it to a final.
You just don't have the time left to be fucking around any more. Show the players you aren't fucking around and they will stay and play for you. And the fans will get behind you. And we'll fucking achieve something.
WAKE UP!
This is the same game we've been playing for a number of years now when it comes to contracts. I don't blame RVP or Cesc for wanting to leave Arsenal. If they'd have stayed they'd still probably be waiting for Prem titles. Henry went through the same, Pires, Vieira...all fought the same battle with Wenger and this structure. We're too slow to adapt to change and it shows in our transfer policy.
I only have a problem with RVP acting like we never existed and that 'little boy' of his crying for Utd. But I'll always remember the build up before he was leaving with all the press stories from the club preparing the fans for the worse. Wenger saying we wouldn't break. Our wage structure for an aging player because we won't get the full value from his contract. Some bullshit equation he chalked up about players getting maximum money when their performances start to decline due to age. With that line of thinking, you can only imagine what's going through his ahead with these negotiations for Ozil and Sanchez. We were also leaking stories suggesting we couldn't match the wages of a club man city because of they had infinite resources... Etc. All true. But we were peddling these bullshit stories before RVP said he wanted to leave, during the season he was banging in goals and before a number was even put on the table. No news of RVP rejecting a contract even came out. The funny thing is, after we sold him to Utd, Wenger comes out and says we were trying to attract PSG to table a bid. See how that works?
Hence why we should watching these stories with Ozil with close intent. I wouldn't blame Ozil at all. We've seen this play out enough times already.
Agreed that this is getting very tired. Either we're a football club or a trust find for the directors. We can't be both. Every penny should be poured back into the future success of the club. Do that and eventually there will be too many pennies and the leeches can feed. But this bullshit about profit today at the expense of all else is why we don't want these fuckers at the club. So it's time for them to choose. And if they make the wrong choice, the non-sporting choice, then fuck them and they deserve the massive backlash that will come if we see Ozil and Alexis walking out the door. You can't be a big club if you can't hold on to your players. They surely realise this? I understand they don't want to be held to ransom and this is why it's about more than the money. This board and this manager need to start earning their keep. They need to put up enough money, maybe not as much as the gypos would stump, and they also need to show the players why it's worth staying at the place. Not more bullshit about jam tomorrow, but cold hard facts on what we are doing today and how each players and (god forbid) each fan plays a part in that. They are so aloof these fuckers. So complacent. So confident that this gravy train will run forever. Well there are ex-die-hards right here on this site that couldn't give much of a shit anymore and that's contagious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
If we lose either player, replace them garbage and Wenger has signed a new deal, I think that will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The fans are tired of it.
I get the feeling that Alexis and Ozil are waiting to see how we get on this season before commiting. If we win the league or reach the semis or final of the CL then i think they will sign and stay but if we bottle it in February and do that thing where we lose the CL last 16 game, FA cup and a couple of crucial PL games then i cannot see them staying (and the manager for that matter).
I think that's about right and I wouldn't blame them either.
Maybe they're waiting to see if we buy some more class players.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/...rwage-demands/
More stories about wage demands. It's really not looking good.
I can't open that link, but Alexis and Ozil could command top wages at any of the big clubs, so if we want to keep them, we have to pay. We pay youth and squad players too much money, but won't pay the stars what they're worth. (Disclaimer, I know they get too much money, but it's the market)
I think so too. Money will come into it but they will also want to see we are being truly competitive too. In the meantime because there are only nonces parading as coaches to talk about inbetween the games, the press will get to work on their usual non-informative stream of bullshit articles to keep the clicks chugging along. But at the end of the day if they go, they go. Things will move on and we'll have to change and adapt.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
It's up to us though. I think they're happy enough at the club but we need to show the right ambition and pay the right wages.
All too easy to dismiss these stories as click bait. We shouldn't take the information as gospel but I question where the information is coming from. Most stories in the press just serve as PR and there is agenda behind the story. Either the agents or a club keep feeding the press with the bullshit. Someone is trying to engineer a move away.
There are a million ways to skin a cat when it comes to the finance packages being put together. Ambition is there but it's whether or not Wenger's management of the squad can get them over the line. The likelihood is that it won't be and they'll be off. But they won't leave at the same time, there's no way that is going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters to Santa
Kano, It's out of the clubs control...if they refuse to sign then they'll both be put on the market next summer and will be sold as and when the offers come in, it could well be at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
We won't allow either player to walk for free, we have invested too much money in them.
I personally think the damage has already been done...we have failed to show real sporting ambition since either of them have been here...
Let's do this. If Ozil and Alexis stay and we add another player of that calibre in the summer then Wenger and Gazidis stay. If not, both follow our players out the door. Do you think Ozil and Alexis would be signed by now if those were the terms? People might ask, why should the top executives leave because players leave. At any other club that is selling itself as an elite footballing outfit it would be a valid question, but not at Arsenal. We've been through this how many times now? Are we really going to be sitting here in 3 years time with the same people at the top, having watched our best players piss off again, and waiting on Player X (signed from Club Y for just a bit less than other clubs might pay) to propel us to a title? Somebody has to pay the price if we are forced to go around that loop again. Another false dawn for the club should mean sunset for the guys who have had every opportunity to prove they can push this club forward. The fans need to avoid hanging on Ozil and Alexis' every last word (and it probably isn't even their words) and instead make it clear to the club that this summer is a referendum on the future of Wenger and Co. Of course they'll probably try and sneak a contract in for Wenger during the season. I hope it's a riot every week if they retain this guy yet fail to retain staff we actually need.
Highly unlikely the club will sit there and watch the transfer fees collapse to zero.Quote:
Arsene Wenger is adamant Alexis Sanchez and Mesut Ozil will see out their contracts at Arsenal rather than be sold.
The two star men in Wenger's side are in the final 18 months of their deals and the club will have to smash its existing wage structure to tie them to extended deals.
With Sanchez understood to be on £130,000 a week and Ozil the top earner on £140,000, it is reported that they want new terms that would at least double their money.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...toke-City.html
It's the old song and dance to try and jack up the transfer offers. We have to make it look like we're committed to keeping them.
I might losing sight of the real objective here. Forget Sanchez and Ozil...Wenger has to go. Even they decide to sign new contracts, if we still have Wenger as coach we're still in trouble.
We need to keep them and add another 2 quality players. It will cost some money though...
I think the opposite. They'll sell one and if needs be let the other one piddle off for free. I can't ever remember seeing two of our main guys leave at the same time - except maybe Overmars and Petit but that was in another lifetime it seems. And if they do leave at the same time or one before and the other after, so be it. The club isn't going to fold and shut it gates. Even if they extend their contracts at some point they are going to leave, so the club will have to adapt at some point anyway. Hopefully later rather than sooner but it is what it is. Far more important things to rage about than this. I'm certainly not going to let the media hold my concerns to hostage. That's the easy trap to fall into in and outside of sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
You're forgetting the following.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
Van Persie and Song.
Cesc, Nasri and Clichy.
Ade and Toure.
Nowhere near as good as Alexis and Ozil but these were first team starters.
They're worth what, 100m for the pair? Of course they'll be sold if the right offer comes in and they don't want to sign. It would just be dumb to let them swan off on a free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel_Quinn
I thought about those players as well. I thought that was because of the stadium debt at the time for the earlier ones. We will just look like a selling club again if they leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
If we can't rape a club for £150m to £200m for the pair then it will really make us look weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goonermerree