When will Arteta be sacked by

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Originally Posted by selassie

Fair enough, if you don't think we have made any progress this season then that's up to you. We have made progress this season, the performances on the whole have improved, we have won a lot more games, though we still lose far too many for a side who harbours ambitions of being a top team. We are still a work in progress. If i am honest I'm not sold on Arteta and am not totally confident he can build upon this season so we are not totally in disagreement...but we are in a better place than we were this time last season.

I am going to judge us based on who we recruit this summer and then judge Arteta next season on a results only basis, this is what he should be judged on now, this is his team / squad now and it's taken him up until this season to weed out the garbage and rotten eggs. He just needs to recruit well this summer if he really wants to take this team up another level.

I am not telling you anything, I was merely asking you what you define as progress. I haven't at any point stated a great rise or anything of the sort...I agree with some of what you say, other bits I don't agree with.

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How many times have we done this now? Surely you already know what's going to happen in the summer?

Anyway, football is officially dead now. Anyone who has seen Mbappe's new contract details will be aware there's nothing left except pure greed and naked commercialism. So Arsenal being set up as a vehicle to fleece a global fan base is the real progress, the real ambition and the sad endgame that I suppose was inevitable from the first minute Sky TV entered the room.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Anyway, football is officially dead now. Anyone who has seen Mbappe's new contract details will be aware there's nothing left except pure greed and naked commercialism. So Arsenal being set up as a vehicle to fleece a global fan base is the real progress, the real ambition and the sad endgame that I suppose was inevitable from the first minute Sky TV entered the room.

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Agreed, so you can leave the board now as clearly there's no point in discussing anything anymore...

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Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist

Should be gone tonight as the longer we leave, the more damage he does

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This may be off topic but losing out on Top 4 has ALREADY given our rivals, namely the Spuds, a massive advantage and the damage has already been done.

Kane wants a new contract at Spurs, Minge Son was touted to go to Liverpool if Spuds had not gotten 4th place, now they are reportedly getting a budget of £150m+ for new players.

I also believe Conte would have gone if they had failed to get 4th and he is one of the few good Manager’s who can deliver.

And I have not even mentioned Newcastle (Billionaire owners), Chelsea (Billionaire owners) etc. etc.

Arteta and the average team we have at our disposal (who actually couldn’t be bothered in the run in) are to blame.

How the standards have been lowered at our once great club. 🌹

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Originally Posted by Chippy

Arteta and the average team we have at our disposal (who actually couldn’t be bothered in the run in) are to blame.

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Yes yes, we're average but Spurs - who were being touted as Champions Elect early doors and who ended up finishing 2 points above us - they're where it's at.
And I call bullshit on "couldn't be bothered". They're a young squad, Arteta left us too thin and when a few injuries piled up we didn't cope. I do blame him for that.

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How the standards have been lowered at our once great club. ��

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Compared with what? Historically the Wenger years (and the 30s) are the outliers

https://i.ibb.co/CnsTgDr/Arsenal-League-History.jpg

I might remind you that you predicted a 7th place finish and ending up below Spurs pre season:

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4952

The key thing is direction of travel. Has there been progress since last season? I'd say so.
Is it enough? It's always nice to have more, but it feels vaguely acceptable for now.
Will it continue? Well, there's the rub. But for me Arteta has earned the right to try.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

If I had the slightest confidence that "progress" would be built upon, followed up by steady improvement and working towards a defined goal that was not the coveted Top 4 Trophy, I could jump aboard the train to nowhere in the hope it would go somewhere.

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Well, honestly, none of us know if that will happen. You're acting like those of us who are more optimistic are confident that this is the start of "a project" which will see us sweeping all before us in a few seasons. I am far from confident about that BUT I do see a positive direction of travel. If that doesn't continue next year then ok, #ArtetaOut. The best thing about Arteta - or any Arsenal manager now - is that they're not Wenger. I mean that in the sense that they don't have all the baggage and legacy he does. If they're not delivering then they're easy to get rid of.

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The tiny little bit all the apologists are missing is this team simply cannot compete at the higher level.

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No-one is missing that. It's BECAUSE we can't compete at that level that I'm content enough with the progress this year. So long as it continues next year.
We were never going to finish top 2 this year, City and Liverpool are a level above everyone else. I put Chelsea in the same category - they did win the CL - but they've underperformed this year and we were closer than I expected. Utd underperformed in an amusing and unexpected way. Spurs and us are about the same level, but they do have Kane and Son up front and we...don't. So I'm not super-surprised they finished above us, I'm a bit surprised at how hard work they made of it. We finished roughly where I expected, a little higher actually. And compared with last year - which IMO is the only sensible basis for comparison - it felt like some progress. Not just in terms of points and final league position, just looking at how they play it felt like there was more shape, that they were playing as a team and fighting for each other and the fans. Yes there were failures, I do blame Arteta for some of that - letting Auba go without replacing him and other departures left the squad too thin. But I happen to believe that the progress we did make earns Arteta another season, especially as I feel like replacing him now would actually set us back rather than move us forward.

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If you;re telling me this great rise in the ranks is based on a plan coming together that sees us going from strength to strength, then I have a bridge for sale you might be interested in.

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I'm not telling you that, I'm just saying that I think the direction of travel is the one I want to see. I want that to continue. I'm not super-confident that it will but I'm content to give Arteta another year to find out.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Yes yes, we're average but Spurs - who were being touted as Champions Elect early doors and who ended up finishing 2 points above us - they're where it's at.
And I call bullshit on "couldn't be bothered". They're a young squad, Arteta left us too thin and when a few injuries piled up we didn't cope. I do blame him for that.


Compared with what? Historically the Wenger years (and the 30s) are the outliers

https://i.ibb.co/CnsTgDr/Arsenal-League-History.jpg

I might remind you that you predicted a 7th place finish and ending up below Spurs pre season:

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4952

The key thing is direction of travel. Has there been progress since last season? I'd say so.
Is it enough? It's always nice to have more, but it feels vaguely acceptable for now.
Will it continue? Well, there's the rub. But for me Arteta has earned the right to try.

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I honestly do admire your loyalty and positivity for the club Letters, however:

You say that we have a young team and that we were tired because of injuries. Really?

We had no European football, and just one match in the FA Cup (dumped out by a Championship club). And they play on carpet every week.

Why didn’t we buy a striker in January to push us on when it was clear that Auba was leaving? And possibly one additional squad player for cover.

Yes, I predicted a 7th place finish, but if you put yourselves in an excellent position to get fourth, you go full throttle to do it! Not bottle it at the end.

You are correct about comparing History (I had a season ticket in the 80’s under Terry Neil and Don Howe, it was awful ☹) , however, we moved stadiums to compete with the so called “Big Boys”.

Unfortunately, that ended when we did move to the Emirates.

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Originally Posted by Chippy

I honestly do admire your loyalty and positivity for the club Letters, however:

You say that we have a young team and that we were tired because of injuries. Really?

We had no European football, and just one match in the FA Cup (dumped out by a Championship club). And they play on carpet every week.

Why didn’t we buy a striker in January to push us on when it was clear that Auba was leaving? And possibly one additional squad player for cover.

Yes, I predicted a 7th place finish, but if you put yourselves in an excellent position to get fourth, you go full throttle to do it! Not bottle it at the end.

You are correct about comparing History (I had a season ticket in the 80’s under Terry Neil and Don Howe, it was awful ☹) , however, we moved stadiums to compete with the so called “Big Boys”.

Unfortunately, that ended when we did move to the Emirates.

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I think injuries were a factor, and the thinness of the squad meant we weren't able to rotate much. And yes, the lack of activity in January was a big factor. I blame Arteta for all of that.
And I agree that while I didn't expect us to be in the mix for a Top 4 finish this season, once we'd got in a position where with 2 games to go it was in our hands we should have finished the job.
You're right about the stadium move - I think we were a bit unlucky there. I don't think anyone could have reasonably have predicted that it would coincide with the billionaires rolling in and hoovering up the biggest trophies. I don't think there was any option but to move and I'm pretty sure we'd be worse off had we not done it.

I just saw a positive direction of travel this season. There are still failings, we're nowhere near where I want us to be. But you've been around long enough that you surely knew that in the Wenger glory year they were the outliers, it was never going to be like that forever. Liverpool were dominant in the 80s and they had to wait 30 years for their next title, these things aren't guaranteed. Arteta gets one more season for me. Top 4 or bust.

Every team we are supposedly in competition with to win the league. City. Pool, Chelsea will get stronger next season, all having far far better managers and players and more likely than us to get the top tier of players who could lift us as a team. Spurs, West Ham, Newcastle, Maybe Leicester are the real teams we are competing with and between us and them I dont see much of an advantage we would have as a desirable destination for the 2nd tier of players we would need. Are players around the globe seriously dreaming of playing under Arteta.

Eternal optimism can only take you so far until you are stomped on hard by reality. By Xmas the old the old optimists will be telling us to "Give him till the end of the season"

Some of you are like Charlie from the "Peanuts cartoon. Lucy holding the ball and telling you to run up and give it a swift kick.........Fooling you for the umpteenth time as she swiftly snatches the ball and you end up somersaulting in the air.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

By Xmas the old the old optimists will be telling us to "Give him till the end of the season

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That depends on where we are by Christmas. If the first half of the season is a complete car crash then I probably won't be saying that.
Ultimately you can only judge a season at the end - I never understand why that seems to be a controversial opinion around here when it's so obviously true. But if the first half of the season is a complete mess then I'll probably lose patience with Arteta.

All people on here are saying is that they've seen some progress this season. All I'm saying is it's enough for me to think Arteta deserves another season.
Given where we finished last year what were you exactly expecting this year and on what basis?