Mourninho has always worked his players hard to defend. If he could get something out of Ozil at Madrid, I don't doubt he'd be able to get something out of him at Man Utd.Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
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Mourninho has always worked his players hard to defend. If he could get something out of Ozil at Madrid, I don't doubt he'd be able to get something out of him at Man Utd.Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
This is the reality. It really is a dreadful thing that nothing much matters at this club except Arsene Wenger. Nobody is bigger than the club, indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall Quinn
Give it a rest NQ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
We constantly admonish our team for playing like fucking morons at tough away grounds and yet you're going to take away from last Sunday's result? Do you think the likes of Real Madrid or Bayern would go to Stamford Bridge and try and play open & expansive football to thrash them by several goals? No they'd have respect for their opponent and at best try and nick a goal or two for a narrow victory or failing that, be satisfied with a 0 - 0 draw ...... essentially what we did.
Also if he's one of the reasons why the ship's sinking in the first place (we all know who the number one culprit is) then he's got no one else to look at but himself. Ozil's the definition of a fairweather player - only turns up when he wants to & the first to down tools when things go wrong .... though he has a good PR team to post messages on instragram/twitter so that makes it all better. Give me a player with 90% of the talent Ozil has but twice the work ethic & motivation tbh.
I say all this as a guy who actually bought an Arsenal jersey with Ozil's name on the back when he first joined so this is not out of personal spite or a longstanding grudge.
I do agree that losing both him and Alexis is going to kill our reputation and status, however this is why I personally feel that we should have sold him two seasons ago when it seemed clear that both him and Alexis weren't going to commit that summer. He's far more easily replaceable than Alexis tbh - we could have got in a Draxler or an alternative back when our stock was higher ...... however as we all know, we're run by a bunch of fucking morons with no long term strategy.
The reason I have a particular dislike of Ozil compared to them is Ozil given his talent, his status and also his extortionate demands (both salary & role) ... he should be doing a lot better than he has for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
The others aside of Alexis aren't going to do better than us and as I've said before I don't have a problem with Alexis because aside from that Liverpool horror game, he's always consistently given us 100% on the pitch and strived every sinew in order to win games for us .... I don't honestly begrudge him wanting to seek better pastures tbh.
Ozil hasn't. As said above he's been the definition of fairweather.
Knowing how petty & narcissistic he is and combining that with his weird voyeurism for Wenger, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Mourinho gets Ozil purely for the sole purpose of trying to show up Wenger by getting better performances out of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
The similarities have already been made but it's like how Trump loves doing things that Obama couldn't. :lol::lol:
I'm taking nothing away from that performance because I gave nothing in the first place. I refuse to give credit for a team that finally decides to do the absolute basics. Leaving aside the probability it's one of the few high points of our coming season, it was rapidly followed up with a game so inept it stunned the senses. Nothing has changed here. I suppose being an Arsenal fan has become an exercise in picking out the half digested lumps from a shit heap to ward off starvation. Yes, agreed,. This is down to one man. The longer he stays, the more talent will walk out the door. And good luck with your hopes for Wenger getting the chequebook out to sign 90% Ozils with 100% commitment. When did we last go head to head with serious clubs for the top talent? In the real world I mean, not in Wenger's "almost signed" fantasy land. When we lose Ozil and Alexis, they won't be replaced. The quality of the side will fall further and the job for the next manager will get bigger. If there ever is a next manager.Quote:
We constantly admonish our team for playing like fucking morons at tough away grounds and yet you're going to take away from last Sunday's result? Do you think the likes of Real Madrid or Bayern would go to Stamford Bridge and try and play open & expansive football to thrash them by several goals? No they'd have respect for their opponent and at best try and nick a goal or two for a narrow victory or failing that, be satisfied with a 0 - 0 draw ...... essentially what we did.
The thought crossed my mind. I get the argument that top clubs may not want him because of his form with Arsenal but Mourinho has worked with Ozi, knows he's a 'unique' player and knows he needs motivating. He doesn't rate Wenger as a manager as it is so I wouldn't be surpised if he's thinking Wenger has no idea how to use such a player.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
Mourinho is one of the few managers that would probably give him the benefit of the doubt.
Mourinho has rather unpleasant obsession with Wenger, I think he hates the fact that Wenger won't get in line with the rest to kiss his arse which is one of the things I like about Wenger.
It wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility to see Ozil opt to go to man united he knows Mourinho rates him highly as a player.
Mourinho is a cunt.
Wenger doesn't help himself. When it comes to Mourinho and transfers, he always has something to say. Still can't work out why he had to speak on the Mata transfer. That's where the whole 'voyeur' spat came from because Wenger would constantly speak about Chelsea's transfer policy. Stuff that had zero to do with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Usually he's asked the question in interviews. The Mata one he definitely was because we'd shown interest in him ourselves back in 2011Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
There's no excuse for Mourinhos behaviour, it's that of a narcassistic bully
During the press conference Wenger was asked what he thought of the transfer and could have stopped at saying Mata is a fantastic player and he's surpised he's being sold. But Wenger decides to take another step and starts talking about 'respecting fairness' because Chelsea could have sold him last week before they had played Man Utd. Suggesting Chelsea have some sort of advantage and done something underhanded. Nobody asked him if he thought it was fair or if Chelsea had done something cynical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by GP
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Originally Posted by Gooner23
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Alright, that will do for that. :lol:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
He was asked about the transfer and gave his opinion on it
I don't see why he shouldn't express an opinion to avoid upsetting the Donald Trump of football management
The way Mourinho reacted to the inoccuous fear of failure comment that Wenger made shows what the guy is all about.
I don't know how accurate that article was about Mourinho going on about how he wanted to punch Wenger's face in. It certainly didn't seem beyond the realms of possibility that he would say that.
He’s free to express an opinion but it’s a bit rich to paint him as the victim. It’s the same thing as the ‘fear of failure’ comment. If you’re prepared to talk about the cunt then you can’t be surprised with the retaliation. Mind your business if you can’t deal with the response. I can’t stand people that throw rocks and then try to hide their hands. It’s cowardly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
The whole argument about Chelsea selling to Utd smacked of hypocrisy considering we sold RVP to Utd but he’s then talking as if Chelsea did something wrong and underhanded. His constant whining about other teams and elements is what annoys me most. Sort out your own house before talking.
No I'm sorry, I get that you get fed up of the things Wenger comes out with in press conferences but Mourinhos reactions are clearly outrageous most of the time.
The fear of failure was to do with all the teams challenging for the title and how the managers of each side were eschewing the favourite tag.
And he was asked why he thought that was.
If Mourinho had come out with he should mind his own business when it comes to the transfer dealings of other clubs that's a reasonable response. Saying what he did in response to a perfectly ordinary response was ad hominem.
A lot of things Wenger says annoys me, and it's not about trying to paint him as a victim. It's painting Mourinho as what he is a scumbag. And whatever Wenger has said in press conferences, the response has been massively Inproportionate and in many ways just insulting and out of order.
Wenger I've lost a lot of respect for these past months, his attitude coupled with his willingness to contradict himself aggravates me and he seems intent on spoiling his legacy.
Mourinho is a cunt, he's always been a cunt and he's always going to be a cunt. Not because he's won things with sides we consider our rivals but because his attitude and behaviour towards people in general. The way he treated the doctor on his fitness team was outrageous, what he did to Tito Vilanova and refusing to apologise for it was outrageous, his personal invectives against countless other managers, absolute refusal to ever admit wrong doing on his part and the self destructive behaviour which means he never lasts at a club much more than three seasons exemplify that this guy is a cancer.
Whatever you feel about Mourinho is your opinion and not what I'm picking out. It's this idea that Wenger is being picked on and it's Mourinho that's obsessed with Wenger is what I disagree with.
Football aside, I can’t stand anyone with that sort of character. If you can't handle the consequences, keep your mouth shut. Wenger just needs to mind his own business if he can't handle the response. It comes back to throwing rocks and then hiding your hands.
I called him just that the other day!Quote:
Originally Posted by GP
Spooky.
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall Quinn
I think it's 100% plausible and I think he'll go there. Ozil better get use to working hard for his team because despite Mourinho being an utter cunt of a man he won't put up with Ozil's antics at Man Utd, honestly...he would have been sold already if he put in performances like he has done here at Man Utd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
I have given up caring about Ozil, if he goes which he will then fine, I don't care where he goes either because all of these players jumping ship say as much about Wenger as they do about the ambition of Arsenal football club, they both go hand in hand.
I think he is obsessed with Wenger he has mentioned him unprompted more than once. He does have a personal issue with Wenger because as I say Wenger hasn't been prepared to kiss his backside. And like with all narcassistic individuals they crave complimentary things said about them and react with great vitriol to anything perceived as criticism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
Of course I appreciate if you don't like it, don't give it. But you don't respond to soneone throwing stones by lobbing a grenade unless you're psychotic
I think if people can't stand criticism without behaving like a cunt than I'd say it's their problem not the problem of the person who has criticised them.
There was absolutely no need to react to the fear of failure comment the way he did.
Telling him to mind his own business and concentrate on his own problems is one thing, this is well above and beyond that.
Yep, part of me thinks this too. The fact that Ozil is on a freebie will have Mourinho rubbing his hands and licking his lips in glee.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
I do think there is a place for Ozil at United though, they will fit him in somewhere.
Wenger has handled the Ozil and Sanchez contract situation so poorly, all of this should have been sorted out last season, "you don't sign then you are sold" should have been the message to both of them.
The whole thing is one big mess and Wenger has his hands all over it, he goes on about finances and all that kind of stuff yet is about to lose just under 80million pounds worth of investment for nothing!
Ozil is going to Bayern, imo.
I disagree Delusions - Mourinho's just a plain cunt. Note that no other manager seems to have to bear the same longstanding grudge against Wenger to the extent of constantly making unprovoked childish attacks against him. Most realise that often journos ask loaded questions in conferences and occasionally someone can say something that you may not like but given Wenger's personality, it's not out of any ulterior or malicious motives so most just ignore it.
It all likely comes to the fact that he's simply envious of the respect and admiration Wenger has in the global footballing community. He's talked about as a guy who revolutionised English football and built a dynasty at a club (hence why Mourinho always goes on about how Wenger should be fired) ..... whereas any mention of Mourinho's success is usually attached with a comment about his corrosive personality and the downfalls of that.
Again with the Trump comparison (because they are so similar!) but it's like how wound up Trump gets when Obama's achievements are mentioned .... "But I did this which ais so much better"
I'm as exasperated by Wenger as much as the next Arsenal fan but he's done nothing to warrant the level of abuse from Mourinho.
I would have given Alexis a lot more leeway because you simply can't replace a player like that (there are only a handful of them in the world) but Ozil should have been shown the door two summers ago when he didn't sign a new contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
It also would have set a precedent & example to other wantaways that the club wouldn't tolerate perpetual contract stalling - instead now the complete opposite is happening - other players have seen the example that Ozil & Alexis have set are replicating it themselves. That's how any other top club would have operated .... Matic was sold by Chelsea this window because he had two years left and refused to commit to a new contract ..... that level of ruthlessness is needed.
The problem as we all know is born from Wenger getting too emotionally attached to the players, viewing them as his "sons" instead of what most of them really are: employees who are predominantly motivated by their own personal goals.
Though tbh I blame the fans somewhat as well .... granted it's slightly understandable in the Ozil case as he was our first proper "big name" signing but we make cult heroes out of some of these guys wayyyy too easily ..... giving them extra leverage in negotiations and making it harder for the club to get rid of them if need be (assuming that they wanted to). Heck I saw fans in the Koln game still singing the Ozil song despite his current contractual situation ...... fucking madness.
Google how the 'voyeur' comment started and the history between Wenger and Jose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
I’ve always had a problem with Wenger’s press conferences when he makes excuses for his record. The constant whining about teams parking the bus, ‘financial doping’ arguments, foreign owners, etc. Most people feel the same way. With that in mind, I’m not going to see him as the victim or agree with you on Mourhino being obsessed with Wenger when I’ve seen Wenger constantly present these sort of arguments which were jabs directed at Chelsea and Mourinho who were champions at the time. It’s nothing to do with Mourinho not wanting to kiss ass. I believe Wenger is a petty man that holds a grudge and can go too far but it’s not built up from nothing.
Again, Google the history.
Throw insults then be prepared for the consequence. Who says you have to be reasonable?Quote:
Of course I appreciate if you don't like it, don't give it. But you don't respond to soneone throwing stones by lobbing a grenade unless you're psychotic
I agree with a lot of this, I am not so sure I agree with the point of giving Alexis more leeway, we have given both of them leeway and look where we are now. I read somewhere that Ozil hasn't sat down to renegotiate since January last year when the talks broke down.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
Last season was an abomination, we had the Wenger "will he won't he" saga that dragged on when nobody apart from Kroenke actually wanted him to sign, and we made little to no progress on talks with Ozil and Sanchez.
What you said regarding us needing to implement a policy to stop perpetual contract stalling is something I totally agree with. Like you stated Chelsea did it, they were ruthless with Matic and we should have been the same with Ozil and Sanchez and any other contract stallers, we did it with Ox...well kind of....why not the others?
Everything we do is half baked...we have hired some new contract negotiating guy who will no doubt take the flak for the next set of perpetual contract stallers.
Maybe. I think he'll have the pick of a fair few clubs. Whilst his stock isn't that high right now Ozil on a free is attractive to a lot of top clubs IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
I think Wenger certainly had an issue with Chelsea's success post-2004, no other club was more bitter about their emergence as a force than Arsenal as we felt knocked off our perch. Wenger did stoke the fire with that so to speak. However that level of spending had never been seen before and it was a hot topic in general at time, I'm not sure he really said anything that should have affected Mourinho so personally.
Mourinho obviously regards himself as superior to pretty much every other manager in the game, no one else bar Pep and Ancelotti have a list of honours comparable to his. It eats away at him that Wenger despite no major success in the same time frame is regarded on the same plane as him.
No one says you have to be reasonable but don't be surprised if someone thinks you're a massive cunt if your response is out of proportion with what's been said and it's childish, vitriolic etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
I completely agree with the Emirates Galactico, he hates that Wenger gets respect because he believes his achievements are more deserving of it.
In the history of the premier league managers will talk about other clubs and it can be critical in a tactical way and Mourinho is far from above doing it himself, the difference is other managers don't act like a Wanker every time.
It's not about Wenger being victimised, I don't imagine he feels victimised by Mourinho I generally don't think he gives him that much consideration full stop. And for someone like Mourinho who exudes all the pathology of someone with narcassistic personality disorder and what he says is consistent with someone who has a rather unpleasant grudge (again I refer you to the article where Mourinho it is claimed has wanted to do Wenger physical harm) against this guy because Wenger hasn't exactly been complimentary about him "If you give success to stupid people it tends to make them more not less stupid" - (frankly deserved after the voyeur comment).
So yes I think without a doubt this petty minded borderline sociopath does have an issue with Wenger regardless of what you think is the provocation which hardly seems like much provocation to a person who is right in the head.
NahQuote:
Originally Posted by selassie
His stock is very high. I think he and his camp chose to leave on a free and made it aware to interested clubs before the summer transfer window. Remember, Ozil and his team made it known to German media that he stopped negotiating with Arsenal in February.
His stock is high based on the fact he won't cost his next club a transfer fee though he will cost whoever he joins a fairly big signing on fee and fairly big wages too. If Ozil was available on the market for say 50 or 60million right now I don't think he would generate a ton of interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
You keep missing stuff. Is it one sided? That's all I'm arguing. Everything else you've said is irrelevant. It's clear that Mourinho doesn't like Wenger but I'd also say Wenger has a problem with the way Mourinho has gone about winning stuff. That's evident from the quote you just provided.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Wenger responded to being called a voyeur, I don't think he actually gives Mourinho much thought as an individual
Whether you think what Wenger has said is unwarranted at not, the consistent point is that the response is massively out of proportion and the reason for this is because Mourinho being someone who isn't well is spiteful and vindictive.
I believe what he said about the failure thing is about his resentment for getting fired from clubs which usually occurs because of his disgraceful attitude. They hated him at Real Madrid, not just the club hierarchy but the fans
Club managers talk about other clubs all the time and Wenger is no different.
I don't recall Wenger calling Ferguson a washed up alky when Ferguson said we were lucky with injuries and in the 01/02 double season said we were just obdurate scrappers and United were the best footballing side.
In my mind as I've said if someone throws a stone, you don't lob a grenade back unless you're classless cunt with psychological problems.
It came across as bitter. How deeply Wenger or Mourinho take this is anyone's guess but it looks to me as though Mourinho is envious of Wenger's legacy and the high praise. The brand of football we played left a lasting impression. But I also think Wenger is envious of Mourinho's trophy cabinet and can't understand how that brand of football can be so successful. He doesn't respect it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Biggest cunt in football is Wenger. He wrestled Maureen's undisputed title away when he signed that contract.
but those clubs would be willing to pay him a huge salary and signing on fee? You see how that doesnt make a lot of sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
Well a 20 million signing on fee and say 200k per week in wages is a lot cheaper than a 60 million transfer fee and the 200k per week wages or whatever it is he will earn.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
Also factor in agents fees for the transfer.
Ozil on a free is an attractive proposition in the current market, there is no doubt about that.