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I think part of the reason Wenger would be interested is that Khedira offers a bigger physical presence and is good in the air. Sagna fought and won lots of headers. Szczesny lumped it for Sagna from goal kicks and Sagna also cleared a lot of corners. But I'm unsure of a Ramsey-Khedira pairing with no defensive mid. Vieira had Petit and then Gilberto to cover. This wouldn't be a similar thing.
Didn't really believe any of this Sami K stuff till the last few days. Nobody has denied anything and this summer unlike many past, there has been a lot less denial from the manager and club. There is obviously usually a sub plot of poker being played but I tend to believe Wenger on the odd occasions this summer when he has denied things, like with the interest in Balotelli.
I'm just delighted we appear not to be willing to let the window slip without signing some proper players in positions we need them in. If we signed Sami K it would be mental! I would definitely learn how to spell his name then too.
I was thinking of those partnerships you mentioned myself and I do tend to think that Petit was less of a sit and hold type than we tend to remember him as. I think there was a little more sharing and alternating which is seldom seen. They basically did what Gerrard and Lampard couldn't although admittedly it is easier to achieve at club level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Syn
Yes, that’s what I also remember. Two rock solid bastards you’d have to struggle through before getting to Adams and co. Sammy and Rambo…if Ramsey didn’t have an engine and didn’t put in a lot of work on the tackling side, it could be more of a problem. I think they’d work fine together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
I don't think the Makelele role is dead really, look at Busquets for Barca, Lahm for Bayern and Alonso for Real. They don't need to be as passive as Makelele or Gilberto were but they do play a very important role in protecting that area in front of the defence and in switching from defence to attack. That doesn't mean they can't venture forward when there's space, but doing that occasionally doesn't make you a box-to-box midfielder. You don't see a rotating midfield pair as often because it's harder to play and to put into practice.
Having two box to box midfielders can sometimes be more restrictive. Ramsey and Yaya Toure were the two best box to box midfielders in the league last season but I doubt they could, or would like to, play next to each other in a two man CM. Both of those players thrive on having the unrestricted freedom to bomb up and down the pitch as often as they can, and they both have the stamina for it too. They don't want to think about when to go forward and when to stay back. You would probably lose something from both players.
Wenger plays Arteta in a holding role so it's safe to assume that he'll expect whoever he brings in to do the same job.
Get Khedira and Schneiderlin/Bender - problem solved. This management lark is a piece of piss...
This idea that he can't be effective with Ramsey is nonsense. Where's the 'proper' DM in Germany's midfield? Khedira and Schweinsteiger done pretty well.
And did Arteta come here as a DM? No. He turned into one (although that's debatable).
I don't get why Arteta gets so much stick. He's been reliable year after year, for those who go by statistics he's one of the best rated in Europe, he never has a bad word to say about the club, doesn't whinge, is a consummate professional, several times he's had the bottle to score crucial goals including pressure laden pens. He's been asked to play a new role at Arsenal and he's done it without complaint. He's getting on a bit now, bit slower, not as dynamic as he was. But the stick he gets is totally unreasonable. We're possibly bringing in better players, all that really remains if that happens is to thank Arteta for helping bring us to this point and acknowledge the role he's played. Some on here say they've never seen a worse DM, or that he's a useless player in general, the weak link. That's total bullshit. I can understand fucks like Bendtner getting flak, but not Arteta.
I couldn't agree more.
Also as Yellow rib pointed out Germany won a world cup without an obvious, discernible or well established holding midfielder and without the services of Bender.
Alternating between the 'sitter' and the venturer is not the relentless task it once was. What was once a midfield 2 is now usually a midfield 3 and you have strength in numbers. A percentage of that defensive work is implicit and perhaps more subtle in that teams win the ball back by their greater numbers and close proximity to each other in midfield squeezing the space. That is different to a time when 1 bloke would frantically chase anything that moved in the opposition shirt.
I don't think it is hard to imagine that Ramsey and Khedira might work quite nicely.
I'd rather us sign Khedira and then buy a cheaper holding player like Mavuba or M'vila who won't cost the bucks Bender will.
Exactly. If anything the trend seems to be moving away from playing a dedicated 'DM' in the Makelele/Gilberto kind of mould.Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
Germany didn't have one, Bayern don't really have one, Martinez is the deepest lying of their Midfielders but he gets about the pitch. Real Madrid don't have, Alonso is more defensively minded but he also gets about the pitch.
As stated, I think if Khedira is brought in, Wenger will work on him and Ramsey covering for each other, Ramsey may be the more advanced of the pairing but I would imagine Khedira will get about the pitch too.