Has Wenger really benefitted AFC since 2006?

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Originally Posted by Daniele

he's been a failure for 5 years out of 15 and his time is up but Arsenal need a manager with vision, great personality and experience at European level. McCoist is a novice, McLeish got relegated with the Brums twice, Holloway is good at joking but has been in the Pl as manager for one season. There are better candidates available, people who would take the positives of the Wenger era and add the qualities that we need to get back to winning ways.

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But if up and coming managers aren't given a shot at the big jobs how do they become top managers? I remember when Dein announced Wenger was taking over and i also remember the media and pretty much the whole footballing world going "WHO??"

I would rather us give the job to an up and coming manager than some big name numpty like Ancelotti and see what they can do with it. I loved the thread about arsenals next manager when some posters were saying they wanted Mourinho here cos he would win trophies, i will rather go a lifetime trophyless than have some classless coward like that take over.

i've got nothing against up and coming managers. Only thing is that I don't see those mentioned as potential Arsenal managers. Martinez, more likely, even though I know we will end up with Dragan Stojkovic.

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Originally Posted by Daniele

some people see someone who shouts and says fuck off all the time sitting on the bench and think 'hey, that's what we have been lacking, x is a great motivator, unlike AW'. Ridicolous. Shouting doesn't mean anything. I don't believe in the motivational issue. When he won the league he was a good motivator and now he isn't?

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Well i would suggest that within the team that last won the league there was enough character to keep motivated, now? Who identifies players to buy? The manager who has left us with a team of such weak mentalities? The manager

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Originally Posted by Flavs

But if up and coming managers aren't given a shot at the big jobs how do they become top managers? I remember when Dein announced Wenger was taking over and i also remember the media and pretty much the whole footballing world going "WHO??"

I would rather us give the job to an up and coming manager than some big name numpty like Ancelotti and see what they can do with it. I loved the thread about arsenals next manager when some posters were saying they wanted Mourinho here cos he would win trophies, i will rather go a lifetime trophyless than have some classless coward like that take over.

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Up and coming managers who have consistently won stuff with smaller clubs. It's what AW did at France, SAF did with Aberdeen in Scotland and exceptionally few managers are doing now.

And picking won nothing, nobodies has it's own problems such as convincing ego's in the dressing room to give a shit. You'll go from having someone who almost every professional in the game respects, to someone the players will jump ship or avoid like the plague at the first sign of danger. Means transfers would be harder, keeping players will be harder, and unless the manager is instantly successful, the unsustainable "lost the dressing room" effect will happen eventually leading to a sack.

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Originally Posted by Flavs

Well i would suggest that within the team that last won the league there was enough character to keep motivated, now? Who identifies players to buy? The manager who has left us with a team of such weak mentalities? The manager

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well, I wouldn't bring up the motivational issue anyway. I mean we've got captains of their national teams in Rosicky and Arshavin and so on. Henry was nobody before coming here, at Juventus he was crap. Vieira was a kid and Inter were looking forward to getting rid of Bergkamp when we signed him under Rioch. AW's main fault has been that he has got most signings wrong in the last 5 years to me.

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Originally Posted by Flavs

Well i would suggest that within the team that last won the league there was enough character to keep motivated, now? Who identifies players to buy? The manager who has left us with a team of such weak mentalities? The manager

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Which is it? Is our squad strong or weak? Seems to flip flop dependant on whatever suits your point of view at the time.

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Originally Posted by AKBapologist

But! but! None of those managers would ever lose to united 8-2 or go 6 years without a trophy... 1896!!! 1896!!!!

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Too right.

Wenger has become a joke, both in the media and to his own fans, does nothing but spout nonsense, tactically inept, poor in the transfer market, unable to solve problem areas.

The 8-2 thrashing was a culmination of those things, that defeat has been coming for a while because of the way he's mismanaged the club, make no mistake though this is not a one off, some of the results in the last few years have been nothing short of embarrassing for the club.

We've finally seen a scoreline has reflected just how poor we can be at times.

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Originally Posted by Daniele

well, I wouldn't bring up the motivational issue anyway. I mean we've got captains of their national teams in Rosicky and Arshavin and so on. Henry was nobody before coming here, at Juventus he was crap. Vieira was a kid and Inter were looking forward to getting rid of Bergkamp when we signed him under Rioch. AW's main fault has been that he has got most signings wrong in the last 5 years to me.

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I disagree, the players we have, have the ability and the technical gifts to be great, what they lack is the self belief and the character to get wins when they are taking knocks, this team has a glass jaw its as simple as that. How many times in the last couple of seasons have we conceded a goal and the heads dropped and then ambled on. Who do the players look to when they are down and out? The manager, sadly the one we have seems to be unable to get them up for any more. IMO Wenger doesn't exude that air of confidence or that winning knack any more, he looks more like a lost old man. I agree that some of the signings have been wrong but even a shit player can be driven on by an inspirational leader, which we don't have.

Also comparing the character and self motivational ability of Henry and Vieira to Rosicky and Arshavin is just silly.

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Originally Posted by Flavs

I disagree, the players we have, have the ability and the technical gifts to be great, what they lack is the self belief and the character to get wins when they are taking knocks, this team has a glass jaw its as simple as that. How many times in the last couple of seasons have we conceded a goal and the heads dropped and then ambled on. Who do the players look to when they are down and out? The manager, sadly the one we have seems to be unable to get them up for any more. IMO Wenger doesn't exude that air of confidence or that winning knack any more, he looks more like a lost old man. I agree that some of the signings have been wrong but even a shit player can be driven on by an inspirational leader, which we don't have.

Also comparing the character and self motivational ability of Henry and Vieira to Rosicky and Arshavin is just silly.

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:gp:

Th14, Vieira had players like Keown, Adams, Parlour who were known winners on the football pitch (not so much off it). These players moulded PV4, TH14 to be winners. Who did JW, RVP, Cesc have to really look up to? One of Arsene's biggest mistakes was to take out experience out of the team so quick. Look at Utd... they hold on to stars like Scholes, Giggs, VDS, Rio so that future leaders can be moulded. What do we do the moment a player hits 30? Kick them out coz they are killing the foetus in Mrs. Smiths womb!

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

His second season was 08/09, they finished 13th then. Following season they were down near the relegation zone it's true although they had some games in hand but if I remember rightly it was the combination of not doing too well in the league combined with some fairly erm agricultural football. Early 2010 is when Coyle joined. In terms of league postion they've been around the same place, finishing somewhere between 6-9 points above the relegation zone, for a while now.

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Fair do's.

For some reason I thought Megson only had 1 and a bit seasons there.