Wenger Out?...Seriously.

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Originally Posted by selassie

Yep, I agree with a lot of this
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I think what we're seeing now is years of under investment from Arsene/Board. We have had pretty major defensive issues for around 3 or 4 seasons but the issues to some degree have been masked by having a small core of outstanding attacking players who have pulled us through.

What we're seeing now is a drop in quality of the first team which means we no longer control games in the way we use to. This is putting more pressure on our defenders who are being exposed for what they are as a unit. As individuals they are all good players, as a unit they suck, I think they suck because Arsene doesn't coach Defence.

I'm being serious here, I cannot for the life of me understand why they do what they are doing in games if they are being coached. There is no rhythm, no understanding & no organisation.

I think this is pretty much it for Arsene, he won't change, he won't spend that extra bit on the quality we need, he won't hire a defensive coach, he won't listen to anybody and accept that this team has major flaws...he just needs to run down his contract and then we start a fresh with somebody new.

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You know what's funny, the one game where we showed true defensive grit and really clung on when under pressure was the Dortmund game and that display came after Pat Rice had his half time team talk and shouted at them. Schzney did say he shouts a lot after the game. lol.

Wenger's tactic for that game was to attack them to keep that Mario Gotze guy from touching the ball. When it was made perfectly clear that it wasn't working, the team looked in trouble but got a lucky break with Dortmund being wasteful and RVP getting that 1 nil lead. Now, if I was Pat Rice, I'd have told them to hold on tooth and nail to that one nil victory. It didn't quite work but we saw a different approach at least. We looked more organised and players like Song and Kosienly looked better after half time. The focus was on defence and getting the result even if it was ugly. Not really what I like to see but at least it's something different and adapting to the situation. And remember...this is Pat Rice!

When it comes to Wenger's half time team talks....we ship in a further 5 goals like we did against Manure or 3 like we did yesterday. I've lost count of the amount of times this team has conceded a goal 5 minutes after Wenger's half time team talk. It happened again yesterday. How the mighty has fallen. It's a sad day. Was listening to Sunday Supplement and they told a story of when Pat Rice first started working with Wenger. Pat Rice was shouting at the players and Wenger sat him down and said that's not the Arsenal way, even though Pat has been at the club for years before Wenger. Pat looks pathetic on the touchline and a yes man because that's down to Wenger's influence and how he wants things to be run. Wenger's influence stretches too far and we need a change because the players just aren't responding to his ways.

I can't agree with not putting pressure on Wenger to deliver. And when I say that, I don't talk in terms of demanding silverware, but demands that he does the things that increase the likelihood of silverware. They don't and have not done this, because their demands are purely financial.

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Originally Posted by GB.

I can't agree with not putting pressure on Wenger to deliver. And when I say that, I don't talk in terms of demanding silverware, but demands that he does the things that increase the likelihood of silverware. They don't and have not done this, because their demands are purely financial.

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That maybe true but Wenger is also totally focussed on finances, how many managers do you hear talking about making profits for the club?

He's forgotten his job is to manage the team and make them as successful as they can be, basically IMO he has not pride in what should actually be his job.

Like I said, that is where the emphasis has been. If Wenger's objectives and focus differed from that of the Board, I'd have expected him to have been gone some time ago. No Board focussing on the performance of the team and reputatation of the Club would have put up with what for a supposed top Club, has been ritual and pretty full on humiliation.

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Originally Posted by GB.

I can't agree with not putting pressure on Wenger to deliver. And when I say that, I don't talk in terms of demanding silverware, but demands that he does the things that increase the likelihood of silverware. They don't and have not done this, because their demands are purely financial.

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But who are they to tell Wenger how to get results? Wenger is a very stubborn guy and likes his own way just as a pointed out in my last post regarding his relationship with Pat Rice. When hearing that, I'm not surprised that he hasn't kept guys like Keown or Adams on for coaching roles because he doesn't want people undermining his authority. The Board cocked up with the David Dein move and they handed Wenger the keys to the kingdom when we went that long period without a Dein type figure next to Wenger, they can be blamed for that.

But what can they possible suggest to him that would increase our likely hood of winning silverware without dictating to him like an Abramovich, Real Madrid sort of regime? Wenger wouldn't have that and for years for Board have kept telling fans that they will give Wenger the funds if he wants them, they are supportive but if he wants to spend £13m on Oxlade Chamerlain and not £15m on Samba or Cahill, what are they going to tell him? "You're wrong Wenger, buy a CB and we'll have a better chance of winning a title"....who on the board can tell him that? Why should it take board member to tell him what it takes to win silverware? They're money men and don't have a clue about football, nowhere near as much as Wenger, anyway. I don't think they should have to tell him to buy but I think that's what actually happened on transfer deadline day. I think Gazdis has put pressure on him on to do something because he's very aware of how upset the fans are and he's probably warning Wenger that things can get ugly. But Wenger seems to think it's a media witch hunt that has whipped the fans into a frenzy. He's losing it.

When the board starts dipping their toes in this sort of thing, it gets messy. Being there to back him him and support him is good, but if they have to start suggesting things he hasn't already seen, then he's in trouble. Imagine a mechanic taking advice from an accountant on how to fix an engine oil leak. Has it really come to this?

We are in a similar position to spurs and liverpool a few years back, before they got Redknapp in, and `pool got rid of Woy.

We need a big change, changing players has not worked, so the manager has to go.

How long do people think wenger will be given, really, no jokes. Surely the board will only let this go on for so long.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

But who are they to tell Wenger how to get results? Wenger is a very stubborn guy and likes his own way just as a pointed out in my last post regarding his relationship with Pat Rice. When hearing that, I'm not surprised that he hasn't kept guys like Keown or Adams on for coaching roles because he doesn't want people undermining his authority. The Board cocked up with the David Dein move and they handed Wenger the keys to the kingdom when we went that long period without a Dein type figure next to Wenger, they can be blamed for that.

But what can they possible suggest to him that would increase our likely hood of winning silverware without dictating to him like an Abramovich, Real Madrid sort of regime? Wenger wouldn't have that and for years for Board have kept telling fans that they will give Wenger the funds if he wants them, they are supportive but if he wants to spend £13m on Oxlade Chamerlain and not £15m on Samba or Cahill, what are they going to tell him? "You're wrong Wenger, buy a CB and we'll have a better chance of winning a title"....who on the board can tell him that? Why should it take board member to tell him what it takes to win silverware? They're money men and don't have a clue about football, nowhere near as much as Wenger, anyway. I don't think they should have to tell him to buy but I think that's what actually happened on transfer deadline day. I think Gazdis has put pressure on him on to do something because he's very aware of how upset the fans are and he's probably warning Wenger that things can get ugly. But Wenger seems to think it's a media witch hunt that has whipped the fans into a frenzy. He's losing it.

When the board starts dipping their toes in this sort of thing, it gets messy. Being there to back him him and support him is good, but if they have to start suggesting things he hasn't already seen, then he's in trouble. Imagine a mechanic taking advice from an accountant on how to fix an engine oil leak. Has it really come to this?

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Totally agree with that. The thing is everything has got so muddled and fucked over the summer. Wenger actually admitted he doesn't know how this team will turn out. He just paniced at the end of the transfer window and bought what was left on the shelves. It may work but probably won't. But it is no way to run a football club and that is the reason he must go. His youth experiment didn't work because he invested too many years in the likes of Vela and Bendtner and never had any interest in the defence. He now has this weird zonal marking shit which Liverpool abandoned because it was a disaster. It is one panic on top of another. At least with project youth we had kind of an excuse that it was all about the future. Now it is just silly and someone needs to come in and make a fresh start. This situation is NOT recoverable.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

But who are they to tell Wenger how to get results? Wenger is a very stubborn guy and likes his own way just as a pointed out in my last post regarding his relationship with Pat Rice. When hearing that, I'm not surprised that he hasn't kept guys like Keown or Adams on for coaching roles because he doesn't want people undermining his authority. The Board cocked up with the David Dein move and they handed Wenger the keys to the kingdom when we went that long period without a Dein type figure next to Wenger, they can be blamed for that.

But what can they possible suggest to him that would increase our likely hood of winning silverware without dictating to him like an Abramovich, Real Madrid sort of regime? Wenger wouldn't have that and for years for Board have kept telling fans that they will give Wenger the funds if he wants them, they are supportive but if he wants to spend £13m on Oxlade Chamerlain and not £15m on Samba or Cahill, what are they going to tell him? "You're wrong Wenger, buy a CB and we'll have a better chance of winning a title"....who on the board can tell him that? Why should it take board member to tell him what it takes to win silverware? They're money men and don't have a clue about football, nowhere near as much as Wenger, anyway. I don't think they should have to tell him to buy but I think that's what actually happened on transfer deadline day. I think Gazdis has put pressure on him on to do something because he's very aware of how upset the fans are and he's probably warning Wenger that things can get ugly. But Wenger seems to think it's a media witch hunt that has whipped the fans into a frenzy. He's losing it.

When the board starts dipping their toes in this sort of thing, it gets messy. Being there to back him him and support him is good, but if they have to start suggesting things he hasn't already seen, then he's in trouble. Imagine a mechanic taking advice from an accountant on how to fix an engine oil leak. Has it really come to this?

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I can't disagree with your points about interference. But if the criteria Wenger is to be judged by is footballing success, then when he does not meet that, he should be sacked. That point has long since passed. But hey, we are still (for the time being) printing money.

So they're happy, and we the fans who are printing the money for them are 'ungrateful' and 'impatient'

I can't think of a group of fans, and I count myself among them, who have been more patient.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

The board should take credit some credit for getting such a huge fee for the Nasri deal. Wenger was prepared to let him walk on a free. Plus he's the one that convinced the Board to sell Cesc for cheap.

Wenger doesn't like to spend big on players and it was the same at Monaco. We spent a lot on deadline day but it was probably impossible to spend it all on deadline day because we left ourselves with little time. Plus, you have to question for the sort of players Wenger wants. Gervinho is decent buy he's not the best winger we could have bought. He's bought 3 CB's over the past 2 seasons and look how it's turned out. He goes for value all the time. He's a bargain bin shopper. The type of guy that would walk into Primark over some luxury designer clothes store to spend £200. That' always been his mentality.

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Agreed, agreed, agreed. Everything you're saying makes sense. But you are also effectively saying the board is one giant Wenger whipped lapdog. This alone is enough to warrant them walking. We need tough winners in every position, on the pitch, in the dugout, in the board room. Of course if they aren't Wenger whipped lapdogs that throws up another batch of compelling reasons for them to walk. They've failed, Wenger has failed. Let them make all their excuses but the game now becomes how to get them out and a proper team in who can restore the club to it's rightful place. Somebody on here was complaining about our arrogance, the belief we are entitled to be top dog. I'm guilty of that no doubt, and I wouldn't change it. I won't hand these guys the ridiculous amounts of money they demand for their sub-standard product, not any more. But it would scare the shit out of me to sit down and calculate the amount of money I've forked over to Arsenal Football Club over decades. If they wanted £3 to stand in a field then my feeling of entitlement suddenly vanishes. This is not disrespect to the other teams in the league, it is a demand for respect from the people taking my money. That's how it should work surely? I think the bargain shopping is probably Wenger's pet but who's going to say the board hasn't done rather well out of it themselves?

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Originally Posted by GB.

I can't agree with not putting pressure on Wenger to deliver. And when I say that, I don't talk in terms of demanding silverware, but demands that he does the things that increase the likelihood of silverware. They don't and have not done this, because their demands are purely financial.

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If their demands are purely financial, do you not think that they are aware that not making 4th loses a lot of dosh, being low in the PL and starting to have trouble filling the stadium loses even more. They need success, even if it for a different reason than us.