Suddenly, Aubameyang to City is more likely than Vardy to us!
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Suddenly, Aubameyang to City is more likely than Vardy to us!
And imagine after all this Jansen signs for Spurs!!
For only £12m too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
At that price it's a no brainer, he may or may not come off, but if he doest he'll be worth 5 times that,we never seem to be interested in goalscorers like this, instead we go after an ageing forward with a poor goal record before last season who appears to be mugging us off, by not wanting to think about it till after the Euros.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
He should do one, clearly he's not that interested in coming, so we should move on and find someone who is (and who's better).
We should be in for players like this, if we'd been clever we'd have gone in for him early instead of sitting on our arses, invariably we always miss out. Not saying we would get him as let's face it we not that attractive an option, but if we tried early we could have a chance of nicking players under the bigger clubs noses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
Anyway City with Aguero and this guy, we can kiss goodbye to any success with the influx of new top managers and invariably top signings, we'll get left behind and achieve nothing as usual.
Gazidis and co talk a good game but Vardy and Xhaka aren't exactly premium signings despite the price, I'd be more content if we at leat signed a forward with potential.
I don't share your views on Vardy but I do think we shouldn't be mugged off. Move the hell on and line up the next target? I assume we cannot rate young Janssen if we're just going to watch the shadow dwellers sign him.
He hasn't got a poor record before last season. Leicester plucked him from the non-league because he had a fantastic scoring record at that level - 58 goals in 73 games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
He struggled in his first year in the Championship as he adjusted to the new level but the following season he did OK - not setting the world alight but he got 16 goals in the league.
The same pattern happened in the Premier League, struggled in his first season, did very well last year.
The fact is we don't know how he'll do in the next few years, he's not got a long history of scoring goals at the top level simply because he's not been at the top level for long enough, but he has scored a reasonable number of goals at every level he's played at.
It's rare for a player to make it so late in his career so he's a bit of an unknown quality, I doubt he'll have another season quite that good again but he is a goal scorer and we could do with one. But yes, if he's going to dick around then he can do one, there are players out there with a longer, proven track record who would probably be more expensive but are less of a gamble.
Well yes he has, with all due respect non league is a very low level so that doesn't count for much, he's had 4 seasons with Leicester 2 in the championship (again a lower level) and his goal return has been:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Season Games Goals
2012-2013 29 5
2013-2014 41 16
2014-2015 36 5
2015-2016 38 24
That's a poor record in my book, the championship isnt that great and his best season was 16 goals in 41 games, not great. Last season was his only season of note which to me doesn't fill me with confidence.
We don't know but at 29 with his record the odds are against him IMO, based on his record at a higher level his record is average at best and even if you buy the period of adjustment comment for a new league/club you made then it suggest he'll get 5 goals for us next season or thereabouts next season, not good enough.
Players who have one good season are nothing new, it happens quite often so basing a signing on one season is very risky, especially at his age with no room to improve, I just think he's the wrong signing for all kinds of reasons and now he's stringing us along as well which is embarrassing, I can put up with that if it's a truly world class player with the world at his feet and plenty of options but not when it's a journeyman with one good season behind him.
You're entitled to your opinion, but we agree we should move on (I suspect we won't, we tend to let these things drag on). As for Janssen, Spurs don't even need him they already have a guy scoring a hatful up front, for 12 million though it's woth a punt, that's nothing in today's market, if he scores a hatful he'll be worth a fortune if not it's just 12 million, we'd probably get some of that back, plus at 21 he's got lots of time ahead of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice
Non-league is low level but he scored enough goals to bring him to Leicester's attention and yes, his record at Leicester is as you say. He has had 2 seasons in the Championship and 2 in the Premier League.
In both pairs he struggled in his first season and did better in his second as he got used to the new level.
I do think last year was probably his best ever year, I doubt he'll top it, but over his whole career he's scored goals.
You wouldn't expect a player from the non-league to come straight into the top leagues and be scoring at the same rate but his speed of improvement gives signs for hope that he'll get a reasonable number of goals over the next few years.
His record is scoring goals at every level he's played at, including international level recently. If you look at the record of any striker playing at a new level - usually this would be at a young age - then there will generally be some poor seasons and then improvement, that's what we see with Vardy.
And the period of adjustment argument doesn't meant he'll get 5 goals for us, what kind of reasoning is that? I didn't say anything about a new club, it was a step up in level. We are in the same league as Leicester.
This is why Vardy might be worth a punt though, in today's market £20m really isn't that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
You could spend twice that and more on a different player with no guarantee they'd get more goals.
He's 20 million due to his age, 29 is peak age for a footballer after this it's generally downhill, even more so because he relies on his pace. I just don't get this signing to be honest, it'd be different if we already had a goalscorer, but we don't and yet this is the guy we put our faith in, a guy with an overall average record.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Let me also remind you Man City paid 20 million for Gundogan.
Yeah Leicester because to be honest they didn't have a lot of money to spend and weren't a big club so players in non league was maybe a good option for them, Leicester had an exceptional season last season as did a few of their players, to me it would appear it's as good as it gets for some these players, Mahrez is the one that stands out really, he's clearly got a lot of natural talent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Vardy IMO has had one good season in 4 and considering 2 were in the championship that's not that great, I personally think if we do signing the guy will struggle and the pressure will build if he fails to score in his first few games and he could end up with a handful of goals at the end of the season.
That Janssen guy would be a better bet because he seems to be cheaper, younger and would have some resale value.
We don't need him if he can't manage more than 24 goals in all comps. It's the same amount Giroud scored but we also had cup games to play. He has to be able to have a bigger season than what he had with Leicester otherwise it's a pointless move.Quote:
It's rare for a player to make it so late in his career so he's a bit of an unknown quality, I doubt he'll have another season quite that good again but he is a goal scorer and we could do with one.
Well we'd have to move quick according to the Mirror Spurs have already agreed a deal with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Yes I saw and seems to be 12 million which is peanuts, he would be worth a punt especially at that price, shame we don't seem interested and instead seem to be happy to wait on a journeyman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
I agree, we've been crying out for a goalscorer who can get us 25 goals a season, I doubt Vardy will deliver that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
I'd prefer to bring in a younger player who could at least have the potential to offer us that at some stage.
The Spuds do absolutely need one or two more strikers in their squad if they want to continue to challenge for the title and compete in the CL league. One of the things that let them down last year was no-one beyond Kane being available to score. This transfer would complete sense for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Thing is at least they have a striker that will score 25 goals a season, we don't so our need is more pressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
But isn't this the issue? Trying to improve on what we have right now is the important thing. Janssen may be cheap but could take longer to adjust and is more of a gamble in that respect. Right now we would be potentially be paying for less of a gamble, comparatively. All we have to judge Janssen on is one season and so you have judge like-for-like with Vardy. We are also paying more for a British player, one that was the second highest scorer in the league last season and you know already that you pay over the odds for British players transferring within the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Ideally it would be good to take both players and see what happens but if it's a choice between the two - and as sceptical as I am about Vardy - I'd go with him. What I don't understand from your perspective is why you keep talking about going for the cheaper option. You always berate Wenger for being cheap and here he is, taking a risk someone that a lot of 'experts' rate highly and think this would be a good buy. I hate using that as some form of credential, but the only reason I do is because I have seen that you place value in the pundits and use their opinions to confirm what you think is right. The price tag at these levels do not matter and it is ironic you are looking at penny pinching and saving money, when you dig into the manager in every other post about the same thing.
It's the same with the Xhaka thing, pretty much dismissing the player because we paid a healthy fee for someone unknown to us. As much bullshit we are fed by the media and 'experts' about players in other leagues, we don't know it all, in fact there are plenty of players that would improve our squad that are not highlighted by the UK media. If that wasn't the case, there would only be 20/30 players only ever worth buying. The other way to look at Wenger in this situation is, if he is willing to pay £30m for a player, he probably is very good. When has he ever taken a chance like this before?
Sure but what if Kane gets injured? He can't remain injury free forever. Spurs need for quality alternatives is just as strong. Just like City, Utd and Liverpool. Spurs big mistake last season was relying too heavily on one striker and not having strong enough back-up once Dembele and Alli were suspended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Possibly, but Vardy will also take time to adjust as we have a different style, different players etc he's shown from his record he doesn't hit the ground running.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
My preference for Janssen is simple, he's younger and has got time to improve, Vardy is at his peak and it will be downhill from here and his record other than last season is nothing to ride home about (whereas the other guy is 21 so you can't judge his record really).
I talk abut going for the cheaper option in this case because the cheaper player has potential and could become a top player, so in a straight choice between him an Vardy I prefer Janssen due to his potential and the fact he'll be around for much longer. Obviously I'd prefer a Lewandowski but it's clear we're not going for top strikers, we don't even attempt to and just watch other clubs snap them up so there's no point even talking about those.
As for Xhaka, I'm not dismissing him as much, he may be very good, I just think 33 million for a player noone knows is very steep, especially when a household name like Gundogan went for 20 million. But it is what it is, I hope he's as good as what we paid but the truth is I know nothing about him and I can't say he's stood out when playing for Switzerland as a world beater either but time will tell. If he's as good as we hear that's fantastic, it just seems a lot for someone unknown that's all, especially when we scoff at the price of some more established names.
I don't disagree, but at least they have someone with goals in them, we don't and that's my issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
Should we be looking at Higauin?
Yes we should, him and Janssen would be ideal, a guy who guarantees goals and a younger player with potential, Liverpool are apparently interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
We never get the top strikers though, we're never willing to pay up for them, Suarez, Higuain are proof of that.
We really messed up ditching Higauin for Suarez because we ended up with nothing at all in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
With Vardy, I'd suggest we keep him as an option because it would be criminal if we end up with nothing again. We can't go into another season depending on Giroud.
But we should be making a move for Higuain without question.
Yeah, I think we're gonna have to try and unearth the next big thing, if we ever want to see a real elite striker at the club - can't see us ever paying what it takes for anyone who's already made a name for themselves, especially with so few of them around and demand so high?Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
In the meantime, maybe we can work around the problem, or at least make it less of an issue? If we had another wide forward as good as Sanchez on the other side, for example, then could we get away with having a striker who is only 'very good', rather than 'elite'? I kind of feel that this CF issue is becoming a bit of a cop out now - if we can't inject more world-class into the side through the CF spot, then we should be looking at doing it somewhere else...
Spuds open talks with Janssen. :lol:
FFS! Why are we so slow on this?
Looks like because we'd rather wait on a 29 year old journeyman who doesn't even seem that bothered about coming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
FFS the one time you want Wenger to sign someone younger he does the opposite.
:lol: Come on, you've got to see the funny side about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Don't worry, we'll have learned from our mistakes in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooner23
:doh: How is he not on our radar? We've really lost our touch in the scouting department.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Nah, just lacking little bit sharpness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Just one google search should be enough to tell people about Janssen. No need for scouting there. :lol:
And :doh: this is shaping up to be another frustrating window.
Is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
Xhaka wrapped up early. Vardy pretty much done. Likely another forward coming in too.
It's far too early to be getting worked up.
Of course if the Vardy move doesn't materialise then questions will need to be asked but for now we have shown more intent that usual.
I'm not sure how this Janssen guy could be construed as a screw up. He is just potential at this stage and surely we've had enough of gambling on that? Let's just see what happens with Vardy. As MO says above, if we do put all our eggs in one basket and bodge things up, then we can start pointing fingers. The transfer market has not started gearing up properly yet. Still another 11 weeks of this nonsense to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
I'm not so sure about that. We almost always make an early signing in the summer and then it gets really quiet in the middle until deadline day. It's really early but the season we signed Debuchy, Chambers, Sanchez, Ospina and Welbeck can go down as a season where we showed early intent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
I'm not so concerned about intent. It's just about making the right choices. If you look at the window I just mentioned, we blew a lot of money on players that are already on their way out of the club.
I agree Janssen is potential, but what is Vardy, he's certainly need not proven quality, this is a bit like the Welbeck signing for me odd, we could have just paid up and tried to get someone top class like Higuain for example, instead we cut corners and sign a possible one season wonder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kano
As for Janssen the only player we've even signed who's scored lots of goals before we signed him was Eduardo and he was decent before his injury, all the other players we've signed up front barely had a goal between them in the last 10 years, so Janssen would be a change from that.