Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

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Originally Posted by Özim

He's representative of the people we saw last season supporting Wenger, the same people singing Wenger's name and fighting with those who want him out.

His opinion doesn't carry any weight, it's just representative of the pro Wenger fans sadly, quite frankly at tthis stage noone should be pro Wenger anymore after his years of failure. You wouldn't see this nonsense at any other club in the world, let alone a big club.

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No-one should?.....that's quite proscriptive

I am glad you think you are in a position to tell people what they should think.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

If what you are saying is true, these fans aren't blocking progress....they just don't want the progress that you want or don't agree with you about how it comes about.

I don't agree with them, but they pay to go to matches and they support Arsenal, unless you are implying they somehow are less of a supporter than you. Again if that's what you think, that's what you think....again along with your opinion that Ty is a barrier to change it's a pretty ridiculous one.

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Yes they don't want Arsenal without Wenger and this means no progress to any fan with any common sense at all. Nothing will ever change with him in charge, we all know that, except it seems those who still support him.

This isn't my choice incidentally, it's the logical one after he has failed time and time again, indeed at any other club he would have been out on his ear many moons ago and rightly so.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

No-one should?.....that's quite proscriptive

I am glad you think you are in a position to tell people what they should think.

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I'm not telling anyone, it's common sense really, all based on tangible things, results and his ability to move this club forward, he has shown time and time and time again he can't, that's a fact not my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Özim

The fans are obviously not the problem, but by supporting this regime they encourage it, if all fans were united in wanting change we may see it, without this we could see Wenger here for another 5 years, he shows no signs of wanting to retire, indeed he's already questioned how Ferguson can live without management.

Change has to start somewhere and being in denial isn't going to do it.

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This is why I keep saying people should stop going to games, stop buying the merchandise. And to solve the bigger problems stop buying the TV packages.
We do hold the power here but we can only exercise it en masse.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Yes they don't want Arsenal without Wenger and this means no progress to any fan with any common sense at all. Nothing will ever change with him in charge, we all know that, except it seems those who still support him.

This isn't my choice incidentally, it's the logical one after he has failed time and time again, indeed at any other club he would have been out on his ear many moons ago and rightly so.

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So you are stating that these people would stop supporting Arsenal if Wenger was no longer the manager, pretty sure that's another claim you can't substantiate.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

So you are stating that these people would stop supporting Arsenal if Wenger was no longer the manager, pretty sure that's another claim you can't substantiate.

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I'm not saying anything, I'm saying they care about Wenger more than Arsenal, that's why they support him blindly despite the facts that's he's not good for Arsenal anymore.

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Originally Posted by Özim

I'm not telling anyone, it's common sense really, all based on tangible things, results and his ability to move this club forward, he has shown time and time and time again he can't, that's a fact not my opinion.

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At the risk of defending people whose opinion i don't agree with, the legitimate question they can ask is who can move the club forward. The consensus seems to be amongst Wenger out people that almost anyone can, i don't think Wenger can move the club forward but i am not that confident in there being many available candidates that can.
The name Diego Simeone was touted a lot last season, great if we can get him (well not great really because i find his football more dull than the football we play currently and although it's about winning, it is still an entertainment form), but my problem is that people are so fixated with getting Wenger out that they seem less concerned with who we should get in.
For me personally i think the board would spend it's time sounding out top potential replacements this season, do i think they will? No....and actually Wenger just walking away at the end of the season with no proper replacement lined up is for me as bad a prospect as him signing a contract extension.

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Originally Posted by Özim

I'm not saying anything, I'm saying they care about Wenger more than Arsenal, that's why they support him blindly despite the facts that's he's not good for Arsenal anymore.

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Again i think that's your opinion, i think they are more scared of change and prefer to fall back on the fact that we have a level of consistency under this manager. I think if Wenger goes they will be just as supportive and optimistic about the next manager

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Özim

The fans are obviously not the problem, but by supporting this regime they encourage it, if all fans were united in wanting change we may see it, without this we could see Wenger here for another 5 years, he shows no signs of wanting to retire, indeed he's already questioned how Ferguson can live without management.

Change has to start somewhere and being in denial isn't going to do it.

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Going back to th vicious cycle I pointed out above, this goes beyond Wenger. Yes a new manager will hopefully make more of what is at his disposal but being active in the transfer market is something that has been a constant throughout Wenger's time here. Win a PL title and don't go and buy to keep improving the squad which is a key reason we never won back to back titles. The owner won't change, Gazidis will remain - so we'll remain uncompetitive in the transfer field and always one or two steps behind winning the bigger trophies. The fans can only do so much and when we are finishing 2-4th each season, it's hard for paying fans to find real motivation to unseat Wenger. I can't think of another club that has done the same. And please don't compare is to City and Chavs because they are mercenary clubs of the worst kind.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

At the risk of defending people whose opinion i don't agree with, the legitimate question they can ask is who can move the club forward. The consensus seems to be amongst Wenger out people that almost anyone can, i don't think Wenger can move the club forward but i am not that confident in there being many available candidates that can.
The name Diego Simeone was touted a lot last season, great if we can get him (well not great really because i find his football more dull than the football we play currently and although it's about winning, it is still an entertainment form), but my problem is that people are so fixated with getting Wenger out that they seem less concerned with who we should get in.
For me personally i think the board would spend it's time sounding out top potential replacements this season, do i think they will? No....and actually Wenger just walking away at the end of the season with no proper replacement lined up is for me as bad a prospect as him signing a contract extension.

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We've had plenty of chances to replace him and there are plenty of better managers than him if we only looked, we don't though and what will happen is he'll hand pick some Wenger clone when he leaves which would be a disaster.

Other clubs replace their managers without a problem, why should we be any different, it seems to me it's always different for us to other clubs, we don't sign players because of this that or the other, other clubs do, we don't replace our manager because of this that or the other, other clubs do, it's this warped viewpoint again that we can't do what every other club has no problem doing, it's ingrained in this club and it's fans.