http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYh1tAMLDRM
Agree with this guy , as usual.
Lamp post comment :haha:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYh1tAMLDRM
Agree with this guy , as usual.
Lamp post comment :haha:
No that's not a risk, his job hasn't never been on the line, going to Madrid would have been a much bigger risk, it is for any manager due to the pressure and expectation which is way above anything here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
Exactly, he needs to wake up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
so if you win 5 trophies in 3 years and then don't go to madrid, your reputation suffers because you "haven't taken a risk"Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
ok then
That wasn't the question was it, the question was what was a bigger risk staying or leaving. There's no question going to Madrid would have been a bigger risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
Cesc at 1:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Z5El142vA
given he had just won the league unbeaten, id say staying and keeping Arsenal in the top four for 5 years with that pressure is a lot of a bigger risk. english football was changing then, chelsea suddenly had money, united too, while la liga is a 2 team league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
:haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
That black guy in the cap, pro Wenger, is in denial too. 'All the players are lightweight' , well who's the genius who keeps picking them then ?
and I'm fairly sure that you have called for Guardiola to take over from Arsene at one point. a man famous for taking risks, like leaving barca and taking over the best team in europe
No sorry, Madrid is one of the highest pressure jobs in football, staying was the easier option, that's obvious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
He never went to Madrid at any point, if you believe what you read he had the opportunity, but like I said he would have never left, too much risk and too much pressure, they wouldn't put up with failure to deliver success.
No I never called for Guardiola to take over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
utter bollocks. how is not winning a trophy in one season more pressure then knowing you have to deliever top four pretty much every year for 8 years or the club struggles massively financially. thats pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Being told you have no money, will have to sell your players before you can buy, must finish top four every year is much more pressure then spending hundreds of millions on whoever you want and winning a trophy, especially in a league as crap as la liga
Utter bollocks....really? Madrid jobs is one of the biggest jobs in football, if you don't win the league and/or CL you're out on your ear, if you don't think that's pressure you're utterly deluded, at Arsenal there's f*ck all pressure from the board, that's the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
Wenger likes it the way it is at Arsenal, it suits him and his philosophy, if he could spend on nobodies and bring through kids he'd do it, thing is the fans won't accept that now.
Give it up. they live in a make believe world where keeping Arsenal in the top 4 with the highest tickets in the whole of football. With the 5th highest turn over, where you cant pay the debt back faster than a certain amount each year is the highest pressure in sports. If im not wrong Wengers salary is about half or a 3rd of the value of the stadium repayments. If he would stop frittering money away on dross and perennially disabled players, wed probably have an extra 30m in the kitty each year. Our wage bill is 50% higher than the Spuds for 1 point difference most years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
He spells out the reality well which is why the pram base doesn't want to hear it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Pretty much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Struggling to finish 4th each season when he has had significant funds available?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Archer
How he fielded an unproven 20 year old from Ligue 2 against Bayern Munich?
How each season the team collapses?
How his record against top teams over the last 5 seasons is played 15, won 1 and lost like 13 ?
How his tactics never seem to work?
This reality?
It's not reality, it's making excuses the spankings we've taken this season are unacceptable, one of the guys on the videos said the whole club should be embarrassed and we should, how often do other big clubs get spanked like this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
If analyse Wenger transfers in the last 10 years and what you see is a man who signs players because he thinks they have potential them not because the team needs them, that's why 3/4 of our squads are CM.
This guy has excuses after every single game, I stopped believing we could realistically win the title when Liverpool spanked up back in February (I was shocked people genuinely believed we could still win it after that drubbing last Saturday you just don't recover and win titles after beatings like that at this stage of the season), teams going for the title just don't get spanked like that, especially come crunch time. It was all very predictable though, once you looked at our run from the Liverpool game onwards you could see what was going to happen, because the same thing has happened time and time again for going on 9 years now, the money doesn't matter because ultimately we've got a manager who can't inspire players and signs players with no real desire to succeed.
If you let Wenger spend the money we supposedly have he'll just waste in on players we don't need who can pass 5 yards and link up with everyone under the sun, he also play them out of position, it's a waste of time giving him money to spend to build a successful side, he doesn't have it in him anymore.
I simply have no belief or trust in this guy anymore, he never delivers on what he says, I think it was 3 years ago he said this was the season the team had to finally deliver, they failed and he just ignore his words just like he always does.
If you want to criticize Wenger then there's plenty of ammo right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
You don't have to make up stuff...
When did you start believing it? At the start of the season I certainly didn't think we were genuine contenders so I wouldn't use that as the benchmark for success this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Myself personally, when we had the chance to go 7 clear..Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
November/early December time when we were flying and built up a lead, though if we're honest the signs were there that we weren't going to do it in December when we had a good opportunity to build a nice lead and had the bad run against the better sides, our form since then has been average (certainly offensively anyway) despite the wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Im seriously embarrassed to call myself an Arsenal fan, if the majority of Arsenal fans are this way... Most of you sound like Man City/Chelsea fans. We're not suppossed to be spoiled teenage kids, we're gunners, we should be proud of our club and how it has been build. We have a legend managing our club, he held us in the top, despite our financial problems, where most others would end up in as a mid-table team, and have now build a base that will launch us into the only legit top club in the premier league, the 3 clubs above us right now are having 50m+ losses each year, there is absolute no future in that, they might win a couple of trophies here and there the next 10-20 years, but they'll end up joining all the other failed sugar daddy clubs in some time, im proud that in 50 years time, there will still be an Arsenal team i can cheer on.
So fucking what if we got bashed twice this season, we're missing all our key players. Take Suarez, Sturridge, Gerrard and Coutinho out of Liverpool, take Aguero, Toure, Kompany and Zabaleta out of City, take Hazard and 3 other cunts out of Chelski and you would see those team struggling in months were they'll be playing all the other top teams. I'll take our starting 11 over any of the other top teams starting 11 any day, this summer we'll add a top striker no doubt, you're deluded if you dont think we will, and then we'll be competing for the league for real next year. Adding a new manager will just restart what we've build for years and you guys will continue to cry like spoiled brats.
Mate listen to yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonasTC
We're not asking Wenger to spend the lot we have got and get us in a shit load of debt. We're in desperate need of improvements on the pitch. There are some areas of the squad which need investment in. Wenger has failed to recognise this time and time again. Yes we might get a 'top striker' in the summer, but Wenger has proven that he's not the right man for the job anymore. The tactics he employs are shot. He is always outsmarted by other managers now, last 5 seasons against the top 4, played 15, won once. Another battle for fourth is on now, hurrah!
I don't see the need of giving him 'another summer', I thought last season was when we were going to push on ? he does bloody nothing.
The same "next year" BS they spouted last is the same as this year and the next.......They are pissing themselves that without Wenger the Spuds will overtake us. They don't wish to win anything. Winning is asking too much. Why arent we just happy the way things are. Its the fear, thats all. Wenger till the meteorites hit again
i think fear of change is acceptable though. people my age, only ever know Arsenal with Arsene as the manager, i admit, the prospect of Arsenal without him, while soon to become reality is also scary, and also very sad (well it is for me, i bloody love the man). He has been manager for a 1000 games, and 18 years, that is a hell of a long time so of course its natural for there to be fear about change, just like there would have been for united fans recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
of course, not every new manager will be a Moyes but nor will they be a Wenger (when he first arrived) either. I don't think anyone in the fan base is happy with recent results, but there are plenty of decent arguments for AW staying and going, using the argument people are scared of change is IMO a bit stupid because for many, change is scary although i think it is needed.
The "same" being totally different in this case. Do some fans actually hate those new commercial deals? They must be bloody inconvenient when having to make up arguments about how nothing has changed at the club. No trophies, that's true, that's the same. But happy the way things are? Things aren't anything like how they were 10 and particularly 20 years ago. Football in general isn't anything like it used to be either. The club has been transformed. But of course it is, same old, same old, if you refuse to look.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
i really can't wait for the new manger though. Its going to be so much fun watching all those who wanted AW out defend the new manager for any similar mistakes, while the people who wanted AW to stay hammer him for said mistakes.
We all know it will happen. :lol:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
Whoever he is, out!
You havent said anything that makes sense. Things have changed?, Well yes they have Im fatter round the waist than 10 years ago, . So what. Has anything stayed the same in the last 10 years, Cars, weather.?. Instead of making points you play with words. Arteta`s not quick but he has legs, has pace......Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Tell me did Wenger negotiate the new commercial deals?. Its another reason to keep him no doubt.
Or it's possible you genuinely can't see it, in which case your posts are understandable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Wenger's remit, keep us near the top, keep us in the CL, keep the transfer budget to close on zero. Which helps, keep the stadium full, keeps the commercial deals coming in. All boxes ticked without even one slip-up. Now the next phase is go and build a top squad to compete with the very best in Europe. Or get Owen Coyle, I can't recall, it was one of those.
PS. Owen Coyle is mentioned because some people hilariously suggested him and it's just funny. He's mentioned for comedy value. I can say David Moyes if you like that better.
I can see both sides of the argument....
No one can doubt what Wenger has done on little resources.
However there are other managers who can do a good job too....Martinez would be my choice - tactically clever, hungry for success, has worked on limited budgets and PL experienced
Keep us near the top. Euphemism for 4th. We are in complete agreement there, Where we differ is that Wenger isnt the only one who can do it with the 4th highest wage bill and 3rd highest pay packet in the PL. Your dedication to keep Wenger is the job is endearing but irrational. We will likely do just as well or better with another astute managerQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
We existed, flourished even without Wenger we will do so without him
don't think thats quite true. before Arsene, we would win stuff for 2/3 years, then nothing for long periods of time. I think from 1940 to 1990 we won something like 7 trophies. Arsene won that in 6 years. Never have we performed at such a consistently high level (by that i mean top four) before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
We had good periods in our history but they were only 2-4 years long. While not saying that without Arsene that will happen again, i think it is fair to say we have never hit such high levels before him.
Apart from the top 4 trophy, what pray tell, have we won in the last 9 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
George Graham has won about the same number of trophies as Wenger, including a European trophy. So wheres the the beef
We? It almost sounds like you consider yourself an insider and Wenger an outsider.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Euphemism for £30-£40mill per annum over 17 years which is probably over half a billion quid. Handy.
We certainly did exist throughout the grey years before success came back to the club. First Graham then Wenger. Yes, I acknowledge we have had more than one manager, though I can't recall ever denying it.
But grey is where we were bound again without a major restructuring of the club. Job done. Sack the manager and call him a cunt on his way out. Classy, WE are.
but if you look at our league positions under him they were all over the place. won the league in 91, finished 10th the next season followed by 4th/12th/5th.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
If you read my post you will see i talk about consistency. Under Arsene so far, the lowest we have finished is fourth. In 18 years. Never have we done that before. I think i saw a stat last week saying that before Arsene, in 92 seasons we had finished in the top four 20 something times.
You underestimating how invigorating the long away trips on British Fail to Middlesbro to see a slaughter in a mud bath (before the match began), standing in the rain in an uncovered terrace and trying to hold the diarrhoea caused by the half time pie and then getting beaten up and having your laces nicked by police for no(ish) reason really were. Mind you, it only cost £3 (plus bail).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist
You're back to playing with words instead of making points again. Affecting oneness with the club is now an issue for people that you routinely accuse of hating the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Get through to this point. The club is not Wenger and Wenger is not the club. You need to climb that hill, then you can get back to being an Arsenal supporter.
Gotta go now
I made a half billion quid point to counter your non-point about the club commercials having nothing to do with Wenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
You drifted off into "WE" territory so I commented on that too :shrug: