Do you still want Wenger as Arsenal manager?

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Originally Posted by Boss

Mourinho spent 11M a season net while he was at Chelsea.

Yep.

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Never mind as this is wrong, I'll :getcoat:

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Originally Posted by Boss

Never mind as this is wrong, I'll :getcoat:

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A well earned :doh:.

:pal:

I don't know how much he spend but it doesn't really matter. Chelsea had already spent shitloads to get where they were. He pushed them over the line and that is because he's a brilliant manager. Point is Chelsea and City wouldn't be above us were it not for the money. I'm not sure that even needs debating, it's obviously true.

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Originally Posted by Boss

Mourinho spent 11M a season net while he was at Chelsea.

Yep.

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that sounds like a mad stat. he spent quarter mill in three seasons, so how is that figure so low?


ah, just seen.

The 11M per season figure net was for Fergie, not Mourinho, over the last 5 years.

My bad. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Boss

The 11M per season figure net was for Fergie, not Mourinho, over the last 5 years.

My bad. :shrug:

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11 million? That's one hell of a wine bill.

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Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)

:pal:

I don't know how much he spend but it doesn't really matter. Chelsea had already spent shitloads to get where they were. He pushed them over the line and that is because he's a brilliant manager. Point is Chelsea and City wouldn't be above us were it not for the money. I'm not sure that even needs debating, it's obviously true.

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I always thought the Mourinho effect was overstated; had we not just gone a season unbeaten, they would have won it. In a way, we have never truly recovered from when that run came to an end. The collapse that seemed a prelude of what was to come...

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Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)

I'd say that's fairly reasonable, but the point is Wenger is at that level. Not many managers are.
People act on here as if he's this bumbling idiot. If we replace him then unless we get another manager at that level, and there aren't that many around, then it's not going to fix all our problems.

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You've got to admit, he makes some real odd statements that makes him look bad. At the moment, we look stale and a new manager could fix our problems, on the field at least. I don't watch enough of the other leagues to name another top manager that can take over from Wenger and I suspect that's the same for most fans. But that doesn't mean they don't exist and wouldn't want a chance to coach one of the best clubs in the world.

Can't argue with any of that :good:

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Originally Posted by Boss

The 11M per season figure net was for Fergie, not Mourinho, over the last 5 years.

My bad. :shrug:

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Selling a player for £80 million is a pretty big anomaly though. :lol:

I want him gone, a year ago tbh. The problem is him leaving now is not maybe the wisest idea, with the season upon us n' all. A new manager will not have sufficient time to make the changes. Let him stay the season and then leave at the end.

Wenger has been great for this club, but imo he has gone stale and the game has passed him by. Strictly from a football point of view, I no longer think he is capable to deliver any more trophies.

As thoroughly argued in this thread, the board must take their fare share of the blame but that in no way can excuse some of Wenger's decisions over the last few years:


1. Retaining the services of Eboue, Denilson, Manuel, Rosicky as long as he has done and back them to the hilt in the face of clear evidence to the contrary regards their contribution.

2. Persistence in playing players out of position, negating their effectiveness and in turn the team suffers. Bendtner, Theo, Arshavin, Eduardo, Eboue (flying right winger) all in attacking positions, all detrimental to our potency as an attacking force ...especially when the chips are down.

3. Knowing full well of our deficiencies in attack and defence ...going out and purchasing super quality like Squid & Chamkah, telling us they are actually football players. Those two transfers should be fully investigated.

4. Abject failure to coach the team defensive responsibility, when the ball is lost ..seems simple right, well it's not so!

5. Abject failure to consistently motivate the team, and instill a strong mentality especially when required in the big decisive moments of the season.

I could go on, but over the last few seasons he has made some bad decisions and failed in some basic requirements of his job for a coach befitting his status as a top manager, and this club's status as team expected to realistically challenge and win some silverware.

From a football point of view alone (i.e things under his control as manager), I think he's past it at the top level ...he's lost the edge required to a be champion again.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

That's a fair and reasonable assessment which stands a chance of being right in the real world, unlike all this "madman" and "megalomaniac" BS. So if Wenger goes how much will really change? It's inevitable the new coach would have a lot less influence over the board, and if we accept the board is partially to blame for our problems then the upshot of Wenger's removal is what? The cancer will still exist at the heart of the club. I've started to review Wenger's comments this summer from a perspective other than, "Wenger Out!", and I think he's talking to us in the only way he can given undoubted constraints. Now I might be delusional myself but I'm going with my gut instinct and in the end I'm not for the board, I'm not for Wenger, I'm for the club - Arsenal. And it's my belief we have some seriously bad'uns in the boardroom now. Toffs who have already cashed in and shouldn't even be there plus an absent owner who knows fuck all about the club and wouldn't have invested at all if his intention wasn't to get back more than he's put in. Wenger's got much to answer for too, no doubt, but I'd trust him over these Etonian fucks and the American any day.

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Niall,

Being from North America and knowing a thing or two about Kronke, I can honestly say he doesnt run his professional teams in the way you are suggesting he is. Kronke has a history of building competitve teams and also has a history of sanctiong the sacking many coaches when they havent been performing. I think he is going to give Wenger a chance this season to prove himself and if he doesnt deliver he will get the axe. Ive never seen Wenger in the state he was in after the Liverpool match. That was a man whos feeling the pressure I say. He looked looked rattled and flustered. I think we will see his (Kronke) true intentions shortly. However I do think he is a prick for not piping up about his vision for the club.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Lahey

Niall,

Being from North America and knowing a thing or two about Kronke, I can honestly say he doesnt run his professional teams in the way you are suggesting he is. Kronke has a history of building competitve teams and also has a history of sanctiong the sacking many coaches when they havent been performing. I think he is going to give Wenger a chance this season to prove himself and if he doesnt deliver he will get the axe. Ive never seen Wenger in the state he was in after the Liverpool match. That was a man whos feeling the pressure I say. He looked looked rattled and flustered. I think we will see his (Kronke) true intentions shortly. However I do think he is a prick for not piping up about his vision for the club.

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All that's possible ML, but where is this guy? He's just bought one of the premier clubs in England, a club which is swirling around the bowl and heading down, but Stan is nowhere. He's put no money in, made no mention of his plans, his ambitions, WTF? You have to assume the worst when an owner shows such absolute disregard for his purchase, you have to assume his intentions lie beyond the football and the team and the fans. I hate the guy already and I don't know anything about him. That might sound dumb but I have a feeling a lot of fans are going to end up feeling the same way. Perhaps he's done well over in the States but he's comprehensively failed to get a handle on what it takes to run a club over here. Has there been any news your side about how he raised the money to buy out the old farts? If the fans had a clearer idea of where the money was coming from and some guarantees there would be investment beyond the pockets of the greedy tossers who are bailing, that might be something at least.

Not sure he wanted to control Arsenal, more like a favor for a dying friend. Clearly doesn't seem that interested enough to be around and involved and with all those other clubs he owns one would think his attention would be diluted.

Say what you want about abramovic, but never have fans thought he was disinterested in the club for long.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

All that's possible ML, but where is this guy? He's just bought one of the premier clubs in England, a club which is swirling around the bowl and heading down, but Stan is nowhere. He's put no money in, made no mention of his plans, his ambitions, WTF? You have to assume the worst when an owner shows such absolute disregard for his purchase, you have to assume his intentions lie beyond the football and the team and the fans. I hate the guy already and I don't know anything about him. That might sound dumb but I have a feeling a lot of fans are going to end up feeling the same way. Perhaps he's done well over in the States but he's comprehensively failed to get a handle on what it takes to run a club over here. Has there been any news your side about how he raised the money to buy out the old farts? If the fans had a clearer idea of where the money was coming from and some guarantees there would be investment beyond the pockets of the greedy tossers who are bailing, that might be something at least.

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I completely agree with your point here and this is why i dont think he has said much or done anything substantial in regards to the club yet. I think he is sitting, watching and learning how to successfully run a proper football team. I dont think he wants to come in and start changing everything in sight as that would be no good for anybody involved. I think we will see him give Wenger this year to show him that hes the right guy and that his way is the proper way (i dont think Wenger will last though and will get his marching orders as the manager at the end of the season).


As far as how Kronke got the money...well I know he is a real estate mogul and has married into the Walmart family. Coincedently he owns pretty much all the real estate surrounding most Walmart stores. He was worth 2.6 Billion last year but that is as much as i know. If JensFace was still around Im sure he would know more about him, maybe GB does. What I can tell you is that the Colorado Mammoth, Colorado Avalanche and the St Louis Rams have all won championships in their respective leagues. He also owns the Denver Nuggets who up until the last year (their best player became a free agent) were very much on the up and were making alot of moves to be one of the top teams in the NBA.


As much as he is a businessman hes obviously a sports fan and does invest alot into his team. Im hoping with whats happening at the club right now, we will hear something from him soon.

I expect the "No's" to pick up this week.

The 16 :pal:

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Originally Posted by Ach

The 16 :pal:

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The "16" are thinking beyond the media frenzy of a sacking and asking what comes next? Can a new manager be found in the next 3 days, will he still have time to build his squad? The chance to get rid of Wenger expired at the end of last season and will not realistically come around again until the end of this one - unless we plan to sink even lower which I suppose is a possibility.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Lahey

I completely agree with your point here and this is why i dont think he has said much or done anything substantial in regards to the club yet. I think he is sitting, watching and learning how to successfully run a proper football team. I dont think he wants to come in and start changing everything in sight as that would be no good for anybody involved. I think we will see him give Wenger this year to show him that hes the right guy and that his way is the proper way (i dont think Wenger will last though and will get his marching orders as the manager at the end of the season).


As far as how Kronke got the money...well I know he is a real estate mogul and has married into the Walmart family. Coincedently he owns pretty much all the real estate surrounding most Walmart stores. He was worth 2.6 Billion last year but that is as much as i know. If JensFace was still around Im sure he would know more about him, maybe GB does. What I can tell you is that the Colorado Mammoth, Colorado Avalanche and the St Louis Rams have all won championships in their respective leagues. He also owns the Denver Nuggets who up until the last year (their best player became a free agent) were very much on the up and were making alot of moves to be one of the top teams in the NBA.


As much as he is a businessman hes obviously a sports fan and does invest alot into his team. Im hoping with whats happening at the club right now, we will hear something from him soon.

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I dunno. Maybe he can see what a hole AFC has got itself into, potentially with a manager who has become too powerful at the club and is simply being cautious about approaching a very very difficult transition.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

The "16" are thinking beyond the media frenzy of a sacking and asking what comes next? Can a new manager be found in the next 3 days, will he still have time to build his squad? The chance to get rid of Wenger expired at the end of last season and will not realistically come around again until the end of this one - unless we plan to sink even lower which I suppose is a possibility.

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Our problems are totally of our own making, should have been sacked at the start of the summer to be honest, never happened and because of that we find ourselves where we are now.

I'd rather get a new manager to sort out what we have and then buy players in January than to keep this guy and go through another season of disappointment and no decent signings.

I want him gone. I don't think things could get any worse with a new manager irrespective of who it is.

Anyhow it looks to me like he's lost control of some of the remaining senior players that we still have (RVP, Arshavin?).

rumour: black scarf march at swansea game

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Originally Posted by Alan B'stard

rumour: black scarf march at swansea game

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You sure the old buffers won't start boasting about the sartorial elegance of the fan base?

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Originally Posted by Alan B'stard

rumour: black scarf march at swansea game

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Where did you hear this?

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Originally Posted by FakeYank

Where did you hear this?

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from your mum.

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Originally Posted by Alan B'stard

from your mum.

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LOL, Fergie's just been on to make it 17 votes to keep.

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Originally Posted by FakeYank

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heh.

ok seriosuly. just social networking chatter

I want Wenger to stay unless the lack of spending can be unquestionably pinned down to him. I have a bad feeling about Kroenke and the old twats on our board looking to make a quick buck and if the turmoil falls on Wengers head then so be it. What if he leaves and we find out the board have been masquerading and tightening the strings to make a bigger profit whilst Wenger takes the flak??

No top manager loses 8 - 2 to their rival. It just doesn't happen. How the fuck are the players going to recover from such an embarrassing affair?

Let this ride out until he totally embarrasses himself and decides to walk. We can't sack him now because we don't have anyone that can come in and repair the damage right away. But while there are still people out their supporting this clown and believing the board are the main culprits, let him stay on until all the doubters are convinced that this guy is past it.

Rooney just voted - that makes 18.

Lack of signings is only half the problem though, in fact i'd say it's less than half.....it's the total tactical ineptitude.......you bring in all the players you want but if you can't drill a team to defend properly, press the ball better....be more decisive and clinical in front of goal than you don't deserve to manage a team

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

No top manager loses 8 - 2 to their rival. It just doesn't happen. How the fuck are the players going to recover from such an embarrassing affair?

Let this ride out until he totally embarrasses himself and decides to walk. We can't sack him now because we don't have anyone that can come in and repair the damage right away. But while there are still people out their supporting this clown and believing the board are the main culprits, let him stay on until all the doubters are convinced that this guy is past it.

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We didnt lose to our rivals 8-2 either tbh

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

No top manager loses 8 - 2 to their rival. It just doesn't happen. How the fuck are the players going to recover from such an embarrassing affair?

Let this ride out until he totally embarrasses himself and decides to walk. We can't sack him now because we don't have anyone that can come in and repair the damage right away. But while there are still people out their supporting this clown and believing the board are the main culprits, let him stay on until all the doubters are convinced that this guy is past it.

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Agree he made this mess let him fix it.

Lets be real thought UTD are not are rivals anymore, and tbf that was the best team he could put out scary.

When you see the likes of Coquenly starting in a game like that, you start to wonder how many we could get tonked by.

especially with no tv 5

i don't buy this who is more to blame the board or wenger game, the two are one and the same, wenger is not only the manager he might as well as be on the board as he sits on all the board meetings...........if it were possible i'd get rid of the entire lot of them, flush that fat turd hill-wood and his cronies down the toilet.......send silent stan back to the mid-west and ownership transfered to responsible shareholders who run the club as a sustainable business that lives within it's mean and turns a profit with reasonable expenditure to create on the field gain that will please the fan base, bring more fans in from abroad and make the club more profitable.

You don't get someone whose hungover and in a state to clean up their own vomit off the floor, they will probably end up being more sick and creating more mess, in many ways it is our mess we as supporters have been too passive, too patient....sitting on our hands prepared to wait until this inevitable debacle occured so we are as responsible now for cleaning up, we need to make it clear that the supporters not only want the manager gone, but the board as well.........Kroenke needs to put up, or fuck off!

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Agree he made this mess let him fix it.

Lets be real thought UTD are not are rivals anymore, and tbf that was the best team he could put out scary.

When you see the likes of Coquenly starting in a game like that, you start to wonder how many we could get tonked by.

especially with no tv 5

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No, make no mistake. I'm not saying he's the only man that can fix this. If I thought there was a possibility of a top manager coming in to replace him on short notice then I'd be all for giving Wenger the boot tomorrow morning.

I'm saying, Wenger should have to sit through this campaign and suffer the consequences if he's prepared to walk this path. The prospect of being sacked is nothing, watching everyone turn on him and call him out for being a sham of a manager is much worse. It's the walk of shame and if he keeps going on like this he's going to really ruin his reputation and I'd have no sympathy for him. This is pure fucking arrogance. Even with a weakened team, he refused to play a defensive game and went and tried to attack United. He refused to adapt to the situation and it's why he's being left behind. The train wreck we just saw, the poor decision making, bad judgement, lack of vision...etc is why I blame him for the summer fiasco and our ludicrous policies. It all links up. He doesn't want to change and soon the board will have to force a confrontation because 4th spot is under threat. Money is on the line.

I don't want to watch this kind of dross week in, week out in some misguided attempt to rub wenger's nose in his own shit

Louis Van Gaal is available

Keep Wenger til October.

Pray Turkey dont qualify for the Euros

Get Hiddink then.

Wenger :wave:

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I don't want to watch this kind of dross week in, week out in some misguided attempt to rub wenger's nose in his own shit

Louis Van Gaal is available

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I don't want to either, but if he's going to act the compete and utter prick, this is where it's going. It's going to be an embarrassing end to his Arsenal career if he doesn't get a grip and I'll have no sympathy for him. He's being selfish and showing a total disregard to the players and the fans.