When will Arteta be sacked by

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Xhaka ceratinly wasn't the only reason and I'm aware that some people say Sky overplayed the effect of that, but tbh i think there's something about the effect it had not just on Liverpool and their crowd but also our own players, who up to that point had been supremely focussed on playing football, but had that focus interrupted by having to try to prevent a fucking psychotic moron from getting himself sent off (again)

It's proof if ever needed that Xhaka should have been binned a long time ago, no-one ever really loses that self-destructiveness and it's cost us time and time again, it's one of Arteta's biggest black marks that he just can't see it

yes, ok, Xhaka is better (for which you can read "not a total disaster area") this season but we could have got someone else to do what he does, it's not that unique and he's ceratinly not the best at it

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Oh Xhaka is a liability for sure, preaching to the converted but when you have two flash points in two different games involving two completely different players - one week Xhaka, the next the usually superb Partey….it speaks to something much larger going on.
But like with many of the things discussed on here it’s not an either or, if it’s not one player it’s another.

And my feeling for the moment is that to a degree you have to take the rough with the smooth. These players that irritate us have played an integral part in a side that’s dropped less than twenty points all season…and that’s including some teeth grinding fuck ups both from players and coach.

And this is where I come back to the city factor. Take away city and the last two games would realistically have meant that instead of going from 5 points ahead to 1 point ahead, we’d be looking at say 12-14 points reduced to 8-10 points…concerning for sure but we wouldn’t all be thinking we’d blown it.

And I don’t say that to say that it’s not possible for us to challenge city, I’m just saying that the margin of error is extremely tight. And I’ve never known an Arsenal side title winning or otherwise not to make errors, not to drop silly points. And maybe it’s a positive to say that we can see where we went wrong and how we’d go about rectifying them

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Quite - some people seem incapable of being able to read anything into what to the rest of us are obvious 'tells', in terms of things like how players are or the tactics used (if any), instead they simply put results down to random factors

it's why I've never really believed very much that we'd win the league, because of the things Arteta does and the flaws in certain players

I probably believed we'd win the league for about 20 minutes during the Liverpool game, but once Xhaka reverted to type that was it, back to reality...

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Ah the classic they don't understand when somebody does not agree with someone else's opinion.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Oh Xhaka is a liability for sure, preaching to the converted but when you have two flash points in two different games involving two completely different players - one week Xhaka, the next the usually superb Partey….it speaks to something much larger going on.
But like with many of the things discussed on here it’s not an either or, if it’s not one player it’s another.

And my feeling for the moment is that to a degree you have to take the rough with the smooth. These players that irritate us have played an integral part in a side that’s dropped less than twenty points all season…and that’s including some teeth grinding fuck ups both from players and coach.

And this is where I come back to the city factor. Take away city and the last two games would realistically have meant that instead of going from 5 points ahead to 1 point ahead, we’d be looking at say 12-14 points reduced to 8-10 points…concerning for sure but we wouldn’t all be thinking we’d blown it.

And I don’t say that to say that it’s not possible for us to challenge city, I’m just saying that the margin of error is extremely tight. And I’ve never known an Arsenal side title winning or otherwise not to make errors, not to drop silly points. And maybe it’s a positive to say that we can see where we went wrong and how we’d go about rectifying them

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Agree with the bit in bold. It's not obsessing about another team rather than focussing on our own but acknowledging that with effectively 2 whole teams capable of winning the league in one with them we a challenger needs to be almost perfect - not just with performances but with luck. Our self- wounding has IMO cost us the title and that's hard to take - but by the same token I think that if we had even only lost 1 of Saliba and Tomi for the past month we would still be in the driving seat. I guess we need to acknowledge that had we had our first team available for the run in we would likely have achieved the incredible - not just taking the league but seeing off a freakish opponent. And I don't think that our performace this season is an aberration or a 'false' indicator either. I guess what worries me a bit is that even if we strengthen over the Summer, CL football will affect our league form, though.

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Quite - some people seem incapable of being able to read anything into what to the rest of us are obvious 'tells', in terms of things like how players are or the tactics used (if any), instead they simply put results down to random factors

it's why I've never really believed very much that we'd win the league, because of the things Arteta does and the flaws in certain players

I probably believed we'd win the league for about 20 minutes during the Liverpool game, but once Xhaka reverted to type that was it, back to reality...

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Until Sky Sports told you what to think, you mean?

Can't remember. Did we always used to curse Paddy for winding up the crowd? Or was it one of the things that made it all the sweeter as our team of winners rubbed it in?

I guess if that team was losing we could have pointed to Paddy a a convenient excuse, or at least jumped onboard when Sky snapped its fingers.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Until Sky Sports told you what to think, you mean?

Can't remember. Did we always used to curse Paddy for winding up the crowd? Or was it one of the things that made it all the sweeter as our team of winners rubbed it in?

I guess if that team was losing we could have pointed to Paddy a a convenient excuse, or at least jumped onboard when Sky snapped its fingers.

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Sky overplayed it, it's too simplistic it say it changed everything, but equally you can't ignore it had an effect and I think it actually disturbed the focus of our own players. All anyone can say with certainty is that before that incident we were bossing it, after it we quickly conceded, just before half time, it was exactly what Klopp needed.

I'm perfectly prepared to say that having been moved up the pitch Xhaka has been less of a disaster area this season and I think we missed him against Saints, but he is ultimately a neanderthal who's relatively easily replaceble IMO with someone who can do.that job but also has some kind of self-control

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Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist

Should be gone tonight as the longer we leave, the more damage he does

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Ok, the dust has settled from another poor performance at Forest.
So, where are we at with this thread? Does he deserve another season? Can we trust him with a £100m war chest? Personally, I would give him one more season to get rid of the last bits of dead wood and see where we are at.

I don’t really see there’s any choice but to do that

I fear a lot of money will be wasted on bringing in Declan Rice.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I don’t really see there’s any choice but to do that

I fear a lot of money will be wasted on bringing in Declan Rice.

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Either that or we will chase him all summer and he will go somewhere else at the last minute.

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Originally Posted by Chippy

Either that or we will chase him all summer and he will go somewhere else at the last minute.

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As long as we don’t sign him I won’t care

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Originally Posted by Chippy

Ok, the dust has settled from another poor performance at Forest.
So, where are we at with this thread? Does he deserve another season? Can we trust him with a £100m war chest? Personally, I would give him one more season to get rid of the last bits of dead wood and see where we are at.

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He’s done something we haven’t done in 6 seasons and that’s qualify for the CL. So on that basis alone I don’t really feel like we should be questioning his position. It wasn’t just a 4th place cup either, we were in the title picture for most of the season which is something that hasn’t happened in a generation, we also had some hugely enjoyable moments and big wins along the way.

Can he break us through the glass ceiling? I don’t know and I’m inclined to believe not as we’ve just witnessed a second consecutive collapse. Albeit with different goals in the equation but the end result was sadly the same.

The last month has been massively deflating but I do believe that we moved the needle this season and I’m clinging on to the hope that this team can continue to grow and improve with some decent signings too.