When do we start to believe ?

We're not going to be finishing fifth, I think that's fairly assured! Let's say we do end falling down to fourth, I'd rather have that than stay fourth for the whole season with not even the prospect of winning the league. Ordinarily a team has one good run at the title before following it through the next season - so long as we don't lose our best players in the summer, then there would be clear signs of progression.

I really don't think we will fall away though, it seems to me that we just have too much quality in our play for that to be the case this season. Plus we're so much better defensively that what has befallen us in previous seasons, might not have much relevance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost of Xmas Past

We're not going to be finishing fifth, I think that's fairly assured! Let's say we do end falling down to fourth, I'd rather have that than stay fourth for the whole season with not even the prospect of winning the league. Ordinarily a team has one good run at the title before following it through the next season - so long as we don't lose our best players in the summer, then there would be clear signs of progression.

I really don't think we will fall away though, it seems to me that we just have too much quality in our play for that to be the case this season. Plus we're so much better defensively that what has befallen us in previous seasons, might not have much relevance.

---

I don't actually think we will finish 5th, I was just covering bases, lol. That would be an extraordinary capitulation.....even for us.

As you are intimating and as letters has alluded to a few times, even if we don't win the thing this season, the real encouraging thing is the progress we've made which is undeniable. We can't ask for much more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IBK

We are 6 points ahead of Citeh which gives us important breathing space over them. Personally, given their home form I can see us losing at their gaff - but if we can maintain consistency, that shouldn't be our main concern.

However, 3 things need to happen for me to truly believe.

1. We need to show that we can function without Giroud playing. Maybe Wednesday will be the opportunity to see this. Giroud has become so important for us, both in holding the ball up in the opposition's third, and making space for others by drawing the opposition's defenders. I have doubts about whether we will be as effective with, say, Walcott or Podolski as our front man. If we can adapt and be effective with Giroud not on the pitch, that will give me a lot of faith.

2. Chelsea. I think it is absolutely essential that we win on 23 December. They cruised to victory against us in the Carling Cup. For me - it is more important as far as our credentials are concerned to reverse this result at home than to win at the Etihad because it will show that we can win against the best tactical manager in the league. Lose, and it may expose us.

3. We need to win with Vermaelen, and even Jenkinson in the back 4. Left back we can be confident with Monreal, the other defensive positions are more questionable. One of Kossy; Merts or Sagne will be injured/suspended at some stage. Can we avoid mistakes when this happens?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Most Gooners I know still aren't convinced that we will last the pace - although every game that goes by these days is providing encouragement.

Personally, as long as we don't implode over the next couple of months I will be delighted with the real progress our team has made whether or not we prevail ultimately. Its telling that the likes of Sp*rs and Liverpool have now revealed their weaknesses, while we have surprised everyone with our consistency so far.

---

I think the 3 things you lay out is quite reasonable. And yeah, right now, I think we can win it, but I wouldn't say for sure, but if those things happens then I can be 90% sure!

When Morata gets here I suppose.

Beating Chelsea is an obsoloute MUST. We cannot afford to lose that game and although a draw wouldnt be the worst result, a win would go a long way in convincing the players, manager and fans that we can win against the big boys. City away will be a tough test obviously but for me, Chelsea at home is probably the more important game given our record against them/their manager.

look at Man u last season when they won the league, they won at almost every big teams's back yard. We REALLY HAVE to beat two or 3 big teams to stand a chance of winning the league.

Look at Man Utd when they won it in 08/09. I hope we play the Chelsea game pragmatically, we don't need to force the result ie we don't need to fall in to the same pattern as we ever do against them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AFC Leveller

Beating Chelsea is an obsoloute MUST. We cannot afford to lose that game and although a draw wouldnt be the worst result, a win would go a long way in convincing the players, manager and fans that we can win against the big boys. City away will be a tough test obviously but for me, Chelsea at home is probably the more important game given our record against them/their manager.

look at Man u last season when they won the league, they won at almost every big teams's back yard. We REALLY HAVE to beat two or 3 big teams to stand a chance of winning the league.

---

You mean it it’s a must win in order to convince you. :lol: We really don’t know how a loss will effect this group of players or even if it will be detrimental to title chase. Chelsea could drop points before they meet us and the gap is widened. It’s been that sort of season and it’s way too early to call. They lost to Newcastle and drew to West Brom not so long ago. Why are we being counted out so easily? We have as much of a shot as the rest of the top teams.

The Chelsea game is a really interesting one. I want us to have learned our lessons, and not see us arse-fucked on the counter attack having had all of the possession.

For us not to be playing sideways balls accross their box looking for the one-two, trying to play our way through.

For us to take our chances clinically when the chance arrives.

And none of this taking 30 minutes to get started. Get on it FFS.

People say it's tactical genious on the part of Maureen, but it really isn't. It's just capitalising on our failings.....hopefully this time it will be different.

We'll cause City all kinds of problems btw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost of Xmas Past

Look at Man Utd when they won it in 08/09.

---

That is the only year in the last 10 years where the champions have not done well in the '6 pointers'.
On Statto.com I just checked every year going back go 03/04 and did a top 4 group comparison. Every year the champions did well in those games - not necessarily finishing top of that mini-table but 08/09 is the only year a team did particularly poorly and still won the title. It shows it's not impossible but it also shows it's unlikely. Every time I've seen us win the title we've done well in these games. A defeat away at City would not be a disaster but I don't think we can afford to lose that one and the Chelsea game. 2 points would be OK. 4 would be good. 6 would be awlsome.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost of Xmas Past

Look at Man Utd when they won it in 08/09.

---

:crying: