Are we getting carried away with the doom and gloom?

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

Sorry, a lot of them are actually bad. Xhaka, Mustafi, Kolasinac. These are genuinely bad players and too old to be coached to the required level. Ozil is retired and deadweight. Bellerin has stagnated badly, so badly it still beggars belief that he plays for Spain at all or is picked regularly when fit. The problem in my mind is that we train these players but they are not coached. they are physically fit but tactically illiterate. There is no discernible strategy in the way we play. What this team longed for after Wenger left was a tactical coach who would force our mentally weak bunch of players to UNlearn everything they had been taught by Wengers dysfunctional methods. We needed a strong manager not a myth with absolutely no track record. I would take Benitez till the end of the season, though my first pick would be Allegri

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This

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Originally Posted by IBK

I heard somewhere that Arsenal's huge problem with our huge contract renewals for existing players is that while other clubs pay big because of what they expect players to bring in future, we pay big because of what players have done in the past - when they have already been paid for those performances. It is symptomatic of the club's lack of direction. Arteta sold us a 3 year project. What he should be doing is looking at which players fit into his vision of how he wants his team to play. Instead, like all of our managers over the past few years - he seems desperately to be trying to find a system to make a bust flush of players work. It won't.

The reason Klopp has been so successful (along with being a genius manager) is that he arrived at Liverpool with a clear vision of how he wanted to play; recruited players to suit this, and got rid of those who didn't, or didn't buy into what he wanted to do. Noone expected Arteta do do all of this in a single year, but in many respects he has done the opposite to Klopp at Arsenal. I was happy about Auba's contract renewal, but the bottom line is that he is 31 and been given a 3 year contract. You would have thought that we would have learnt from Ozil. Willian - 32 and massive 3 year contract....despite us having Pepe who while flawed is a much better bet to take us forward. AMN - performs superbly and is praised for it yet doesn't play. Luis - 33 years old and often a liability yet an ever present when fit despite us being hugely over stocked at CB. Lacazette - 29 and fading before our eyes...

...and let's not forget that if, as it would appear, there is trouble in the ranks - it is precisely the above senior players who will be stoking it.

Arteta has done precisely the opposite of what he has told us he wanted to do, and in trying for short term results has also gone the opposite way. Its stupid and spineless - lacking vision and conviction which are precisely the attributes that we thought he was bringing. That's why its feels so disillusioning.

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:gp:

Superb post bro, hope all is well with you.

It's genuinely baffling to me that players at this level can't do basic things like take set pieces.
And I know I've just said they're not bad players but I don't think that's unique to our lot.
Lot of ineptitude and Emperor's New Clothes in the modern game.

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Originally Posted by Globalgunner

Sorry, a lot of them are actually bad. Xhaka, Mustafi, Kolasinac. These are genuinely bad players and too old to be coached to the required level. Ozil is retired and deadweight. Bellerin has stagnated badly, so badly it still beggars belief that he plays for Spain at all or is picked regularly when fit. The problem in my mind is that we train these players but they are not coached. they are physically fit but tactically illiterate. There is no discernible strategy in the way we play. What this team longed for after Wenger left was a tactical coach who would force our mentally weak bunch of players to UNlearn everything they had been taught by Wengers dysfunctional methods. We needed a strong manager not a myth with absolutely no track record. I would take Benitez till the end of the season, though my first pick would be Allegri

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You know what would happen if we took on a stop-gap manager. He'd get a bump, save us from the drop zone and everyone would be saying his reward is to stay on. Risky strategy that one. Better to dump the deadweight, which is most of our senior squad, and stick AMN in the middle, and build a team around him from the youngsters (including Saka and Tierney)

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Originally Posted by Letters

It's genuinely baffling to me that players at this level can't do basic things like take set pieces.
And I know I've just said they're not bad players but I don't think that's unique to our lot.
Lot of ineptitude and Emperor's New Clothes in the modern game.

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Can't or wont? I.E. They have simply given up playing for Arteta?

I think the latter, they have downed tools...nothing Arteta says is getting through to them. Arteta's position is now untenable for me, he must go first and I think Edu should go with him.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

You know what would happen if we took on a stop-gap manager. He'd get a bump, save us from the drop zone and everyone would be saying his reward is to stay on. Risky strategy that one. Better to dump the deadweight, which is most of our senior squad, and stick AMN in the middle, and build a team around him from the youngsters (including Saka and Tierney)

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Spot on!
We so need a bump to get us away from the bottom. I have said it before, can you see any of this lot rolling up their sleeves if we are in a relegation dog fight? I am truly worried.

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Originally Posted by selassie

:gp:

Superb post bro, hope all is well with you.

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Likelwise, my man. Despite the shit show we have at the moment, its good to be back on here!

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Originally Posted by Aubameyang's Wang

Wenger, Emery, Ljungberg, Arteta.....

Doesn't seem to matter who is at the helm.

They all do the same things and make the same mistakes.

How are some of the same old, shite dross we have, still starting games each week - with the hope of them suddenly coming good and turning into top club players?

It's genuinely baffling.
Arteta convinced Xhaka to stay for example - what the fuck?!?

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IMO - the fact that the same thing has happened with different managers speaks to a deeper problem than just bad players. Like Letters, I don't think that we have bad players (Willian and Xhaka excepted - they are clearly past it). Like for like on an individual basis they are better than the players in at least 2/3 of EPL teams. I think our problem is systemic. We don't have the right players for the way the managers are trying to play, and successive managers are trying to find a system that suits them rather than deciding on a system and finding players to suit it. There are layers on top of this also. Wenger persisted with players that weren't performing, but in a way I am going to cut him a little slack as he had ben at the club so long that he had lost long term focus. Emery started with some sort of plan, and it worked - insofar as he was probably getting results for a while that reflected the level of talent he had. But then he bottled it and totally lost his way. Arteta has made stupid and baffling decisions and as I've said there is no evidence whatsoever of a coordinated strategy. he should never have been made manager.

Teams need players in key positions that make a team tick. Ramsey was the last player we had of this ilk. What happened with him is illistrative of a glaring problem at Arsenal - player recruitment and retention. We put our faith in, and hold onto the wrong players because we are not bold enough to work to a proper long term vision of the future. Recruitment was taken out of Emery's hands - remember when he wanted Zaha? He got Pepe, but those making the decisions had not a clue.

I had no problem with Arteta convincing certain players to stay when he arrived. After all, he needed to try to use what he had to get a tune out of them. His recruitment of Partey made sense, and he was clearly earmarked to anchor the MF going forwards. The manager also seemed to recognise that further recruitment was needed - hence our interest in Aouar. What is far less excusable, IMO is his persistence with Xhaka when he has stunk the place up. If he had a vision, then he should have had the balls to use our younger players - who at least have some prospect of improving.

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Originally Posted by Chippy

Spot on!
We so need a bump to get us away from the bottom. I have said it before, can you see any of this lot rolling up their sleeves if we are in a relegation dog fight? I am truly worried.

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Isn't NQ arguing against a stop gap manager?

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Originally Posted by selassie

Can't or wont? I.E. They have simply given up playing for Arteta?

I think the latter, they have downed tools...nothing Arteta says is getting through to them. Arteta's position is now untenable for me, he must go first and I think Edu should go with him.

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Aye - I think that they have lost faith in his methods. The surprising thing is how quicklythis has happened, and I think that it speaks to a deeper malaise at Arsenal than simply having a rookie manager. This is the one area where I have some sympathy for Arteta. What he did see was the problems with the prevailing attitudes amongst our players - who are not prepared to roll up their sleeves and fight when the going is hard. This has dogged us for years, and can be traced back to Wenger's mollycoddling. The only way to root out this mental issue is to start with young/new players. I strongly suspect that Arteta's perseverence with Xhaka stems from the fact that he appears to the manager to have the right attitude when others do not. It's just a shame that he is the wek link playing wise.

Arteta's main problem with trying to address the mental fraility at our club is that having identified the problem, he then persists with old has-beens like Luis and Willian - who have form in agitating against managers at Chelsea, and fails properly to bring in his youngsters who have shown some fight. Poor management.