Good Bye RVP!

Some time ago I´d have gone mad if RVP left Arsenal.

Now I only hope that, if he leaves, he doesn´t go to another PL team at the end of the season.

But what if Wenger resigns then? Or if there are changes in the board? Would RVP reconsider? He has earned the right not to care about all that, and just focus on playing with people that share his ambitions. He deserves to lift some important trophy before he gets old. Unfortunately AW won´t learn anything from RVPs departure, if he hasn´t already resigned by that time.

This is hopefully veering away from overrating him, but it wouldn't surprise me if Barcelona were looking at Koscielny at the moment. That's from a stylistic perspective as much as anything. In terms of defenders being comfortable in possession and wiry/mobile when defending, he would be worth a look. Unless La Masia shits out a defender or two. Obviously, early days.

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Originally Posted by Elreactor

Some time ago I´d have gone mad if RVP left Arsenal.

Now I only hope that, if he leaves, he doesn´t go to another PL team at the end of the season.

But what if Wenger resigns then? Or if there are changes in the board? Would RVP reconsider? He has earned the right not to care about all that, and just focus on playing with people that share his ambitions. He deserves to lift some important trophy before he gets old. Unfortunately AW won´t learn anything from RVPs departure, if he hasn´t already resigned by that time.

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It's have to be more than a managerial change, it'd have to be 'big' signings too. RVP has publically talked about the need for them and we signed Chakma instead.

Unless we invest seriously this summer ( :lol: ) RvP would be an idiot to sign a new contract with us.

Year after year we've replaced quality with average players, we can't keep on getting away with it. If and when he goes we'll be in mid-table. It's sad.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Unless we invest seriously this summer ( :lol: ) RvP would be an idiot to sign a new contract with us.

Year after year we've replaced quality with average players, we can't keep on getting away with it. If and when he goes we'll be in mid-table. It's sad.

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He may not even have to go before we're mid table; we are already way on course for that eventuality...

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Originally Posted by -Xs-

He may not even have to go before we're mid table; we are already way on course for that eventuality...

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I think we'll finish 5th this year by default simply because everyone else is even worse. But right now it's only RvP keeping us that high.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I think we'll finish 5th this year by default simply because everyone else is even worse. But right now it's only RvP keeping us that high.

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That and the fact that the sqaud sems shot of confidence and the manager and baord are happy to finish 6th and have written off the season. Don't think it will bother them to miss out on the europa league tbh

If we're not going to qualify for the CL then I'd rather miss out on the Carling Cup of Europe ™.
Obviously they would then reduce season ticket prices

( :lol: )

If not making the CL finally forces change so we invest in players, then I'd be less concerned. As far as the Europa League is concerned, if we were to end up in that but actually win it, at least we would have something for the players to build on. Coming out with nothing for a couple more years would hardly be inspiring. I'll even settle for the FA Cup this year if it means the team having something to give them a boost, however small.

Although it would not interest me at all until the latter stages (like the CC) we need to play in the Europa League at least.

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Originally Posted by MaxPeck

If not making the CL finally forces change so we invest in players, then I'd be less concerned. As far as the Europa League is concerned, if we were to end up in that but actually win it, at least we would have something for the players to build on. Coming out with nothing for a couple more years would hardly be inspiring. I'll even settle for the FA Cup this year if it means the team having something to give them a boost, however small.

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Yep time to focus on that and hope for 4th even the fa cup and 5th the fans would settle for.

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Originally Posted by Letters

™

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:faint:

:woohoo: :dance: :scarf: :partytime:

Letters :bow:.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Although it would not interest me at all until the latter stages (like the CC) we need to play in the Europa League at least.

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If there is no European football at all next year, how are we going to attract players? The Europa is not as impressive as the CL, but it is better than bugger all. Competing with 6/7 teams for the CL/EL spots and coming 5th by a couple of points off 4th at least shows possibilities for the next year. Failing to even qualify for the EL after all the years in the CL, failing to win anything for 6 years after having been dominant and collecting silverware for the preceding 10 years is the sign of a club in decline.

While we are not terminally damaged, we are holed below the waterline and need to get some repairs done NOW. Like this window. A couple of decent buys and we have every chance of getting a CL spot. No significant buys and we are certainly doomed to not being in the CL and a fair chance of not being in European competitions at all. Now if the club was short of dosh I'd understand but we are not and there is no financial reason why we should not make the investment.

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Originally Posted by MaxPeck

If there is no European football at all next year, how are we going to attract players? The Europa is not as impressive as the CL, but it is better than bugger all. Competing with 6/7 teams for the CL/EL spots and coming 5th by a couple of points off 4th at least shows possibilities for the next year. Failing to even qualify for the EL after all the years in the CL, failing to win anything for 6 years after having been dominant and collecting silverware for the preceding 10 years is the sign of a club in decline.

While we are not terminally damaged, we are holed below the waterline and need to get some repairs done NOW. Like this window. A couple of decent buys and we have every chance of getting a CL spot. No significant buys and we are certainly doomed to not being in the CL and a fair chance of not being in European competitions at all. Now if the club was short of dosh I'd understand but we are not and there is no financial reason why we should not make the investment.

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There is only one way we will get in the cl is if we win the thing, and money won't be spent for us to do it. We get a god draw we could go far in the comp and who knows.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Although it would not interest me at all until the latter stages (like the CC) we need to play in the Europa League at least.

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Yeah if we have any designs of getting back in to the Champions League then being in the Europa League will just benefit us in terms of future seeding, let alone the fact it is a trophy.

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Originally Posted by MaxPeck

If there is no European football at all next year, how are we going to attract players?

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Oh yeah, 'cos we're attracting them l, r and c right now :sarcy:
We're a big club European football or not. Spurs attracted players when they were in mid-table, they just waved money at them. Players like money.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Oh yeah, 'cos we're attracting them l, r and c right now :sarcy:
We're a big club European football or not. Spurs attracted players when they were in mid-table, they just waved money at them. Players like money.

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Maybe we should put in a cheeky bid, buy 'arry and sack Wenger. ;)

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Originally Posted by MaxPeck

Maybe we should put in a cheeky bid, buy 'arry and sack Wenger. ;)

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:ilt:

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Originally Posted by Letters

Oh yeah, 'cos we're attracting them l, r and c right now :sarcy:
We're a big club European football or not. Spurs attracted players when they were in mid-table, they just waved money at them. Players like money.

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Problem will be our top players won;t want to play in it we just play the kids till the 1/4 stage. we won't take it serious at all.

Europa League is a worthless competition, wouldn't want us in it at all. Of course it looks quite likely we'll be playing in it next season unless we (hopefully) fuck up the qualifiers.

You have to play more overall games than you would in the CL, which fucks up your overall league 'challenge' (in our case, the battle for 4th) and it's also a lot more tiring on the squad given it starts earlier and away trips mean travels to the middle of nowhere for games. Also very unlikely we'd win it.

Waste of time imo.

As for attracting players, we'll always be able to do that even if we dropped out of European football completely. Top players want to play in the CL, the Europa League is hardly a positive compared to no European footy at all.

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Originally Posted by Boss

Europa League is a worthless competition, wouldn't want us in it at all. Of course it looks quite likely we'll be playing in it next season unless we (hopefully) fuck up the qualifiers.

You have to play more overall games than you would in the CL, which fucks up your overall league 'challenge' (in our case, the battle for 4th) and it's also a lot more tiring on the squad given it starts earlier and away trips mean travels to the middle of nowhere for games. Also very unlikely we'd win it.

Waste of time imo.

As for attracting players, we'll always be able to do that even if we dropped out of European football completely. Top players want to play in the CL, the Europa League is hardly a positive compared to no European footy at all.

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1 will we be challenging for the league next season ?
2 it would suck to have to do that whole sunday/Thursday thing.

Would rather be in the Europa League then not be in Europe at all

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Originally Posted by Boss

Europa League is a worthless competition, wouldn't want us in it at all. Of course it looks quite likely we'll be playing in it next season unless we (hopefully) fuck up the qualifiers.

You have to play more overall games than you would in the CL, which fucks up your overall league 'challenge' (in our case, the battle for 4th) and it's also a lot more tiring on the squad given it starts earlier and away trips mean travels to the middle of nowhere for games. Also very unlikely we'd win it.

Waste of time imo.

As for attracting players, we'll always be able to do that even if we dropped out of European football completely. Top players want to play in the CL, the Europa League is hardly a positive compared to no European footy at all.

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Actually if we had been in the Europa League this season compared to what games we have played in the Champions League, we would have played the same amount of games. It's only the Round of 32 that the Europa League has that the Champions League doesn't (assuming we would only finish fourth at best).

Also, towards the end of the group games in Europe you could possibly play on Wednesday. Far too much is,made of it being Thursday/Sunday anyway. How is it any different from maybe having to play on a Wednesday and then again on a Saturday? We've had long gaps between games recently and we still haven't been performing well.

We're not going to 'attract' players because we don't really ever try. And if it was the case they're going to say 'no chance, you're not in the Champions League' then I guess we should probably try to get those players now.

If you want us back in the Champions League and you want us to conceivably do well in it, then not being in the Europa League isn't going to help that - our coefficient will suffer and thus the likeliness of going out of the Champions League group stage would be increased.

IMO not being in the Europa League next year would give us a better chance of finishing top 4 as we wouldn't have the burden of the extra games. And, frankly, I struggle to get excited about the early stages of the CL, I certainly couldn't get excited about us being in the Europa League until maybe near the end if we got there.
In brief: Meh.

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Originally Posted by Letters

IMO not being in the Europa League next year would give us a better chance of finishing top 4 as we wouldn't have the burden of the extra games. And, frankly, I struggle to get excited about the early stages of the CL, I certainly couldn't get excited about us being in the Europa League until maybe near the end if we got there.
In brief: Meh.

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Like I said, it's possibly an extra two games. And they wouldn't even come in to consideration until February/March. Your excitement or lackthereof is a personal thing so I can't really say anything against it but that also doesn't really have much relevance for Arsenal; the team, that is.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Unless we invest seriously this summer ( :lol: ) RvP would be an idiot to sign a new contract with us.

Year after year we've replaced quality with average players, we can't keep on getting away with it. If and when he goes we'll be in mid-table. It's sad.

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Then he really should have demamded to go in the summer, im sure Wenger has sat him down and explained to him whats going on at the club and what is likely to happen in the next few seasons. IMO he will go because he will want to win big trophies which won't be won with us and wenger will let him like cesc last season.

I just want us to be in it cos of

1 - we wont play our first team in it, probably the youngsters and far more easier for me to go support them than it is the waste of space First Team Pub Teamers

2 - Watch more games if we're in it than if we're not

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

Like I said, it's possibly an extra two games. And they wouldn't even come in to consideration until February/March. Your excitement or lackthereof is a personal thing so I can't really say anything against it but that also doesn't really have much relevance for Arsenal; the team, that is.

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do you really want to watch us taken on some shite team from uzbekistan

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

do you really want to watch us taken on some shite team from uzbekistan

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Well they're the team I support so I am going to watch us regardless of who we play. I think you're missing the point anyway.

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

Well they're the team I support so I am going to watch us regardless of who we play. I think you're missing the point anyway.

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I suppose at least we win 6-0, 6-0 every week

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

I suppose at least we win 6-0, 6-0 every week

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We wouldn't because I don't think we'd play our strongest side. I'd rather we would though.

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

I suppose at least we win 6-0, 6-0 every week

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Are we playing Tennis, best out of 3 sets?

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Originally Posted by Ach

Are we playing Tennis, best out of 3 sets?

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6 nill then

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

6 nill then

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:blink:

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

Like I said, it's possibly an extra two games.

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Well no, you're comparing the number of games between CL and Europa. I'm comparing the number of games between Europa League and no Europe at all. It's a lot of extra games.

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Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...

Actually if we had been in the Europa League this season compared to what games we have played in the Champions League, we would have played the same amount of games. It's only the Round of 32 that the Europa League has that the Champions League doesn't (assuming we would only finish fourth at best).

Also, towards the end of the group games in Europe you could possibly play on Wednesday. Far too much is,made of it being Thursday/Sunday anyway. How is it any different from maybe having to play on a Wednesday and then again on a Saturday? We've had long gaps between games recently and we still haven't been performing well.

We're not going to 'attract' players because we don't really ever try. And if it was the case they're going to say 'no chance, you're not in the Champions League' then I guess we should probably try to get those players now.

If you want us back in the Champions League and you want us to conceivably do well in it, then not being in the Europa League isn't going to help that - our coefficient will suffer and thus the likeliness of going out of the Champions League group stage would be increased.

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We 'tolerate' the CL games making our squad tired, giving us extra injuries because the rewards of being in the CL (financial, for the club, and competing against the best sides in Europe, for the fans) outweigh this. We've seen how decimated our squad gets by injuries, partly due to playing in the CL but not being in the CL and having a fresher squad would not be chosen by any fan if they had that option.

The Europa League offers no such benefits. It's a drawn out competition for the losers of Europe. Were we in it, we'd be expected to win it. Winning it would not bring that much joy to the club as it's expected while not winning it brings embarrassment and shame. Financially it is a complete waste of time - if I'm right the group stages of the CL provide you with more money than winning the EL does, and we're hardly testing ourselves against the very best of Europe.

The argument that we'd get to see more of the youth team play is perhaps true, but it's more due to flawed thinking by the manager than anything else. We don't have that many top youth talents - ignoring the likes of Chesney, Wilshere, Ramsey, Song, Walcott etc who are first teamers now we only have Chamberlain, Miquel, Jenkinson, Yennaris, Miyaichi, Campbell, Coquelin etc they can always be sent out on loan or given a chance in the Carling Cup. If they are good enough to play, they should be playing for the first team - playing in a worthless competition does nothing to help them do this.

I'd rather have injuries, a tired squad and the CL, of course, but not having the EL and having a much fresher (since we'd play around 20% less games) squad for the league and two cups would be much preferred by me.

In some ways, I'd prefer a proper season of re-building.

None of this "put a sticking plaster on and hope that it stays in place" crap.

Concentrate soley on the domestic campaign.

RVP still has another year on his contract don't forget, so he'll be nearly 30 by the time it has elapsed....might as well just let him go after that, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Well no, you're comparing the number of games between CL and Europa. I'm comparing the number of games between Europa League and no Europe at all. It's a lot of extra games.

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Well we're in the Champions League this season, that's why. If there are only two more games to cope with what we have had to cope with this season, it's probably easier to gauge there wouldn't be a huge amount of difference. Having big gaps between games makes no difference if you don't have the requisite quality (look at Liverpool this season). Also, am I right to guess you'd rather we finished sixth (seventh if Citeh won the Carling Cup)?

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Originally Posted by LDG

In some ways, I'd prefer a proper season of re-building.

None of this "put a sticking plaster on and hope that it stays in place" crap.

Concentrate soley on the domestic campaign.

RVP still has another year on his contract don't forget, so he'll be nearly 30 by the time it has elapsed....might as well just let him go after that, IMO.

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If I thought for one moment that dropping out of the other competitions and focusing on the league next year would put us back on track, I'd be OK with it. However, until there is a change in attitude by Wenger/Board/PowersThatBe, I regard that as a nonstarter.

If we are 6th or lower and don't win anything this year and Wenger moves out of the way to allow for a fresh manager with credentials, then maybe we will see a motivated team. In that case, I'd say lose the waste of space players in the summer - ones who are crap or have still not achieved potential after their 537th chance - keep the good nucleus and buy some fresh players uncontaminated by years of the underachievement at the Arsenal which must surely be rubbing off on the squad.

Whether or not we'd place an importance on the Europa league, we would go quite far in it. If we drop out of the top 4 and if we have a summer where other teams consolidate further and we are weakened with Van Persie leaving, I have a feeling we'd go back to being cup specialists with average league seasons. Our youth seems to have that character about them. Wilshere, Szczesny, Oxlade, Jenkinson and others - you can imagine them picking it up for the big games but not having the consistency to do well in the league.