win a cup and is it a successful season?

genuine question here, given there is a lot of anger on here for our performances recently and rightly so, if we win the fa cup or the champions league and fail to get top four, is it a successful season?

if we win the fa cup, i will be really happy but overall disappointed with the league and wont regard it as a very succesful season though will be delighted we finally won a cup. but if we win the champions league, i will think it a brilliant season to finally win it, be champions of europe. and if we fail to get top four, and win CL, we go into the CL if i am right. well liverpool did in 2005.

Yes especially if we win the CL (Which we wont but that isnt the point of the thread)

*sigh* This question again.

Every season - and every season - nothing.

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Originally Posted by GB.

*sigh* This question again.

Every season - and every season - nothing.

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sorry. was have a chat about this with a mate last night, was interested to hear what people thought on here. given this is our worst season so far since 2006 imo

The league is the bread and butter and the best measure of progress IMO. Even if we get into the top 4 I don't count that as progress. Winning the FA Cup or CL would be enjoyable. Very enjoyable. And, of course, it would count as 'success'. But I would still want some major changes at the club and a change of management because our league season shows we have regressed and there is little hope for improvement under the current circumstances.

A top four finish won't do anything for our players confidence and it wouldn't stop players like RVP from leaving the club.

But an FA Cup win would probably have more of a positive effect on the team even though we miss out on the CL league.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

A top four finish won't do anything for our players confidence and it wouldn't stop players like RVP from leaving the club.

But an FA Cup win would probably have more of a positive effect on the team even though we miss out on the CL league.

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No but both would for me one with out the other is faliure what ever way you look at it. I agree with ACH only winning the CL can count as succesful tbh

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

No but both would for me one with out the other is faliure what ever way you look at it. I agree with ACH only winning the CL can count as succesful tbh

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I know the OP asked what us fans think success would be but it's unimportant, imo.

Finally winning a trophy and breaking that jinx would do more for our squad than a top four finish would. They need to feel like winners and get that hunger to win silverware. I just think silverware would lift this team more than a top four finish. Both would be ideal but they if we end up throphyless again but make it to 4th the team won't feel as if they have achieved something this season.

Winning a cup would be great and is what we really need, getting 4th is a nothing achievement which brings you nothing except money in reality.

Would it be a success yes, however I echo the sentiments that major changes are needed regardless of what happens.

This is a pointless question as we won't be winning jack sh*t.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I know the OP asked what us fans think success would be but it's unimportant, imo.

Finally winning a trophy and breaking that jinx would do more for our squad than a top four finish would. They need to feel like winners and get that hunger to win silverware. I just think silverware would lift this team more than a top four finish. Both would be ideal but they if we end up throphyless again but make it to 4th the team won't feel as if they have achieved something this season.

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yeah your right tbh had we not bottled the cc we have won the league too last season. Id take the fa cup for sure tbh.

Getting the burden off our backs would be a big step in the right direction. As PnG says above, it would probably be better for the team than only getting 4th. We've been finishing 3rd/4th for years and the team rarely appears to improve as a group, the only people who benefit from that are the money men at the top.

I bet if you asked fans of a pub team what they'd rather achieve and celebrate, FA Cup or 4th, the majority would go for the cup.

I don't know how anyone without a financial stake in the Club could possibly want 4th over the FA Cup.

This preoccupation with 4th is killing our Club.

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Originally Posted by GB.

I don't know how anyone without a financial stake in the Club could possibly want 4th over the FA Cup.

This preoccupation with 4th is killing our Club.

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This is why the CL should be for the top 3 because teams have been allowed to seettle for 4th and it takes out the competition in the league tbh. Infact the CL should rally be for the top 2 only in fairness.

Winning the FA Cup would be massive for us, like stamping our foot on the brake to halt what's beginning to look like an inevitable slide into relative obscurity. But the players will have to do it on their own. They'll have to do it despite having the worst board in world sport leeching from the club, they'll have to do it despite the manager sticking to his stubborn and discredited policies, they'll have to do it in the face of a track record of abysmal choking and humiliation on the pitch. And they'll have to do it without any reinforcements because they tight-arsed, greedy filth in the boardroom are only interested in money-in and the messianic manager really thinks there's something to be gained by trying to change the world into something it doesn't want to be using Arsenal Football Club. In truth they'll probably have to do it without the fans too. Who here believes any more? Who here hasn't seen it all before? We'll cheer but we won't believe it until the Cup is actually delivered. Even if we are 2 goals up in the last minute, we won't believe it. And if we make the mistake of believing, that's when the worst will occur. Just to hit us in the face one more time. So we're asking the players to do something we are probably incapable of doing. Believe. Certainly something the board and the manager don't see as important because they seem to spend their whole time stamping down any sort of progress when it crawls to the surface.

So can we win the cup? Not a prayer. There's no hope because there's no belief. Just one fucking player of note signed in this transfer window. It could make all the difference. But certainly there's no hope of that.

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

This is why the CL should be for the top 3 because teams have been allowed to seettle for 4th and it takes out the competition in the league tbh. Infact the CL should rally be for the top 2 only in fairness.

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Should really be the Champions only as at least you have to achieve something to get into football Premiere European competition, I could live with top 2 as well I guess.

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

This is why the CL should be for the top 3 because teams have been allowed to seettle for 4th and it takes out the competition in the league tbh. Infact the CL should rally be for the top 2 only in fairness.

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The CL should be for the champions. There should be no also-rans in at at all. Otherwise call it the Champions and Also-Rans League and be honest about it.

Noone ever counters Wenger by telling him that the CL should really be a competition for Champions or top 2 and that 4th place is in realityt failure, they always let him come out with this nonsense with no response it seems.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

The CL should be for the champions. There should be no also-rans in at at all. Otherwise call it the Champions and Also-Rans League and be honest about it.

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It use to be in the old days of course, but then big clubs like us weren't happy with missing out on the jackpot so we threatened a European Super league which noone would ever watch anyway.

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Originally Posted by GB.

I don't know how anyone without a financial stake in the Club could possibly want 4th over the FA Cup.

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It's not as simple as that. As fans, we would enjoy the FA Cup win more. But the league season remains the best way of judging how good a team is. We all want Arsenal to progress and get back to being the best team in the country. If we were second and fighting for the title, it would be a better signal of showing quality than winning the FA Cup. I would understand sacking Wenger even after winning the FA Cup if we finish 5th because the 5th place position just shows we're nowhere near where we want to be. But genuinely competing for the title (like, say, Man Utd are right now despite being knocked out of the FA Cup, CC and CL) shows more promise.

I know there will be some who say being 'nearly good enough' isn't good enough - and I agree, but being good enough for a cup competition whilst sliding down the league is also not good enough IMO and it shouldn't be classed as a successful season for the manager because we wouldn't have shown progress.

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Originally Posted by ItsMe

Noone ever counters Wenger by telling him that the CL should really be a competition for Champions or top 2 and that 4th place is in realityt failure, they always let him come out with this nonsense with no response it seems.

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No one says that to real madrid or ac millan or chelsea or city who failed to win the league too.

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

This is why the CL should be for the top 3 because teams have been allowed to seettle for 4th and it takes out the competition in the league tbh. Infact the CL should rally be for the top 2 only in fairness.

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Champions League. Key word - Champions. But it's a money spinner so the more game they squeeze in the better.

We have no business playing in that competition to be honest. A team that hasn't won anything for 7 years shouldn't be able to participate.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

The CL should be for the champions. There should be no also-rans in at at all. Otherwise call it the Champions and Also-Rans League and be honest about it.

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too right, too many teams(like us) who just make up the numbers.

Winning The FA Cup should enter you into the CL qualifiers. Not 4th. #justsayin

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Originally Posted by ItsMe

Noone ever counters Wenger by telling him that the CL should really be a competition for Champions or top 2 and that 4th place is in realityt failure, they always let him come out with this nonsense with no response it seems.

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Why would anyone counter Wenger about what it SHOULD be about. He has been dealing with what it IS about. And in that regard, until now, he has done spectacularly well.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Champions League. Key word - Champions. But it's a money spinner so the more game they squeeze in the better.

We have no business playing in that competition to be honest. A team that hasn't won anything for 7 years shouldn't be able to participate.

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Don't make sense so if we won the cc for the last 7 years would we still not be allowed in it? does not matter what you won or not you should only be in it if your the chmaps.

but within the rules we have qulaifed for it therefore are allowed to be in it. If we won it none of us would give to shits if we should be in it or not would we.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Winning The FA Cup should enter you into the CL qualifiers. Not 4th. #justsayin

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yep

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Originally Posted by Syn

It's not as simple as that. As fans, we would enjoy the FA Cup win more. But the league season remains the best way of judging how good a team is. We all want Arsenal to progress and get back to being the best team in the country. If we were second and fighting for the title, it would be a better signal of showing quality than winning the FA Cup. I would understand sacking Wenger even after winning the FA Cup if we finish 5th because the 5th place position just shows we're nowhere near where we want to be. But genuinely competing for the title (like, say, Man Utd are right now despite being knocked out of the FA Cup, CC and CL) shows more promise.

I know there will be some who say being 'nearly good enough' isn't good enough - and I agree, but being good enough for a cup competition whilst sliding down the league is also not good enough IMO and it shouldn't be classed as a successful season for the manager because we wouldn't have shown progress.

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It is that simple. We've been finishing 4th (sometimes 3rd) for years, and look where we are now - about a step up from irrelevance and complete despair. No one here gives us a prayer of winning anything, because winning something of note has not been a requirement of this Club for years.

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Originally Posted by GB.

It is that simple. We've been finishing 4th (sometimes 3rd) for years, and look where we are now - about a step up from irrelevance and complete despair. No one here gives us a prayer of winning anything, because winning something of note has not been a requirement of this Club for years.

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This is why by making the fa cup a way into the cl it will make teams want to win it more and make that cup exciting again tbh. If 4th meant nothing we'd not waste time on it we rather put our efforts to the cup.

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Don't make sense so if we won the cc for the last 7 years would we still not be allowed in it? does not matter what you won or not you should only be in it if your the chmaps.

but within the rules we have qulaifed for it therefore are allowed to be in it. If we won it none of us would give to shits if we should be in it or not would we.

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If we won the Champs League this season, I'd be over the moon, but I think UEFA would probably adjust the rules again if that happened or it will raise a few questions at least.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

If we won the Champs League this season, I'd be over the moon, but I think UEFA would probably adjust the rules again if that happened or it will raise a few questions at least.

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yep, They need to do something because atm The CL is very boring even the manc semifinal last season was a very poor game for that standard.

To wib something, and realistically that can only be the FAC would be a boost but it still would not be a sign that we are a better team than from the last previous barren years!

The squad needs some serious overhauling we lack quality to last the course and mount a serious challwnge to the top teams. . .until that happens the fools gold position of fourth, is always going to be enough to satisfy the amibition of the club

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Originally Posted by Japan Shaking All Over

To wib something, and realistically that can only be the FAC would be a boost but it still would not be a sign that we are a better team than from the last previous barren years!

The squad needs some serious overhauling we lack quality to last the course and mount a serious challwnge to the top teams.

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Agreed. And so from the current position we are in, there's pretty much no way we can have a successful season in the sense that we would've shown the club is heading in the right direction. The league is the best measure of that and we failed in that. We can hopefully get some success and a good cup run is always enjoyable for the fans - so lets hope it happens.

On the other side of the coin, what the hell would happen if we got to the FA Cup final and threw it away?

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

On the other side of the coin, what the hell would happen if we got to the FA Cup final and threw it away?

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Probably carry on as we are now anyway, Vinger out.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Probably carry on as we are now anyway, Vinger out.

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Agreed, nothing would happen; fans would still call for AW to be sacked, board would slag off the fans for expecting too much, fans call them cunts, ad infinitum

A cup win would be nice though...