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I keep changing my mind about this.
If we finish top 4 then should we still sack Wenger?
This season has been such a roller-coaster but right now we're looking pretty good again, we seem to have a bit more steel, we have a decent captain and if the rumours about Podolski are true then we've learned our lesson and are looking to do business early rather than scrabbling around on deadline day.
Should Wenger still go? Does it depend on whether we finish top 4 or not?
If it not broke don't fix it, I have always thought Aw should go end of the season or the board because together they cause damage. However if AW can change his ways spend on the team if we finish 3rd or 4th then ill back him next season. IMO a month ago id say we get a new manager in now id doubt we will tbh.
He needs to get RVP to stay because he is the best captain since paddy v yesterday and even in the last 5/6 games we seem to have leaders on the pitch (where did that come from).
Hopefully we get Podolski and other quality then ill be happy.
So ill vote maybe even though its not on the list.
he will still be here next season, without doubt.
but as to whether the should or not, depends on rvp.
if the dutchman stays then wenger should go but if our captain leaves, then the manager has to stay for another season at least
I want Wenger to leave on his own but I want him to want to leave at the end of the season. Can't see anything other than a poor summer's business and a massive injury crisis knocking us out of all competitions. I'd like big changes at the top. Some of the youngsters we have are fantastic and I think a new manager would have a lot to work with.
The height of our achievement year in year out is 3rd/4th place.
I believe we can and should be looking to do better than that. That's all Wenger seems to be capable of delivering so I'm still open to a change in a manager, although probably a little less vociferous about it now the team is showing some fight at least. This team flatters to decieve and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if we're here this time next year out of all the competitions and fighting for CL football again.
I'm happy to get behind and believe in the team again though, given how they've restored pride to proceedings, which was the least they could have done.
I think it's critical for Wenger though to ensure RVP stays. It would kill the fans faith and probably the team spirit if we lost him.
nothing question because wenger will never be sacked. come to terms with it.
this thread is now about christmas trees.
that wasn't the question :good:Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBN
could have fooled me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
especially the bit that says 'should we still sack wenger?'
all im saying is why not concentrate your energies on stuff you have a genuine say on? gazidiz was wumming when he said wenger is accountable to the fans.
Clearly not a difficult task. The poll question says should Wenger go, you could take that to mean sacked or step aside.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOBN
I don't have a 'say' in anything which goes on at Arsenal. So what, should we just not talk about any of it then?Quote:
all im saying is why not concentrate your energies on stuff you have a genuine say on?
:doh:
The whole point of this section of the board is to debate stuff, pretty much all of which we don't have any say in at all.
MellowFellow :lol:
I love this team. Trophies can wait for another day, but if we carry on putting the effort in, they will come.
Still think Wenger has something to offer us, so I'd like him in for another season.
I see you completely ignored the part where BOBN pointed out that you said 'shall we still sack him?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I see you completely ignored the part where I said "Should Wenger still go? Does it depend on whether we finish top 4 or not?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebus
And the poll question says "go", not "sack"
:good:
This is going well.
It was going well before it was hijacked :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
It doesn't matter whether we have any control over this or not, BOBN and Jeebus. This is Arsenal Debate, we can't control anything much what happens in Arsenal, that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss it. Otherwise what's the point of this section?
I pretty much agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
I did want wenger to go, but it does appear that he is starting to realise that we won't put up with previous seasons' mediocre bullshit anymore.
This team is really starting to gel now and they are fighting for each other. They do now have spirit and strength and want to win games and are showing some passion. All we have ever asked for tbh.
If wenger gets things right this summer he could turn things around very quickly. He does need to change the way he goes about things during games too but that will come with the right personnel.
This is his last chance with the fans though, regardless of what the board do/say. Unsackable or not, if he fucks up again with transfers and doesn't get rvp to sign a new deal then all fans will give up on him completely.
I'm prepared to let the crap parts of this season go if he can do it right this time. The way the team are starting to play together is inspiring and has given us all hope and belief despite the odds being against us a few weeks ago, and you have to admit that wenger has played his part in that.
If he gets it right this time, I will forgive and forget and he can stay, but if he doesn't then I will be glad to see the back of him.
Awesome post dude agree with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebus
I didn't ignore it :good:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I wasn't disputing otherwise :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
BOBN was, I was merely commenting on your 'discussion' ;)
Can't say I disagree with any of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebus
What I can see now is a foundation. And all it comes from is desire and passion, with some brilliance from our captain and a few others.
To me, it is the most simple transfer window Wenger has been faced with in a long time, so long as he keeps RVP. Buy some proven quality, and we could very well be up and challenging where we want to be next year, but with some instilled passion and commitment.
Like you say, if he bollocks it up, it definitely is goodbye.
Thanks mate :hug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebus
This is a really tough call IMO. My fear has always been that we'll get worse after Wenger leaves, at times this season though there didn't seem to be much to lose though. Right now we're looking like a pretty decent side with some fight about them. Do the right things in the summer and we could push on next season. Right now I'd like him to stay but another collapse and a 6th place finish and I'll probably change my mind again.
This. :good:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebus
Can I add that I was listening to TalkShite last night before the game and the debate was over whether clubs should listen to fans when deciding policy. The point was made that while there are a few genuinely knowledgeable and balanced fans, the majority of us are pretty uninformed really, and clubs would be ill advised to follow policies on the basis of keeping fans happy. The situation at Wolves being a case in point.
Its amazing how a good run of results and seeing a liitle fight in our team means that we are miles away in terms of our feelings/opinions than we were 1 month ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebus
This x 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping
I had previously said that I wanted him to go because he is not getting the extra couple of players needed to make the difference. Otherwise, I was comfortable with things - Arteta, Merts helping to boost the team showed promise - but the fact that RvP still seemed to have no help in that no other strikers were scoring and there was no apparent attempt to buy a reliable goalscorer in the January window was the last straw for me at the time.
However, if this team finally does make an effort, if we do by Podolski at the start of the window and clear out some of the remaining crap - Chamakh, Bendtner, Arseshavings to name but 3 - and get a couple more seasoned players, then I think I am comfortable with Wenger staying on. It would show that while we are still wanting to bring in academy players - nothing wrong with that - we are still buying what we need to keep a PL title-challenging side. It does not take much to make the difference. If Podolski comes and scores half of what RvP does, then we are in great shape.
I guess it also helps that it looks as if we are in with a decent chance of pissing off spuds who thought it was their year to piss over us. Nicking 3rd from them and they being the ones who choke in the final 3rd of the season would be more than pleasant to see.
I think his fate hangs in where the team finishes at the end of the season - outside a CL spot, he should definitely go (what's next, staving off relegation). He will not be out of the woods at that point either as his next test will be his actions in the transfer market. If he continues his mad and insulting drivel about a lack of quality players available and then goes about some last minute mediocre signings, then it's by by Arsene.
i dont want him to go now because this team i believe in. he has turned it around, we used to laugh at his mental strength comments yet in the last four games he showed it was true. this team could do something special next season, keep it together with right signings and there could be at least a cup and a possible title challenge. this team has something special about it. one more season with the right summer and we'll see
We'll see what? Next year this, next year that, maybe with a signing or 2. It's all been said before.Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
The problem we have is that most fans despite their frustrations will always stop short of saying they want him gone by creating another "they have potential" perception for the team. Wenger is inherently a part of this club now and that is why he'll never be sacked and why the clamour for him to go will never be strong enough.
He's here for life he wants it.
He is the man who killed Jack Wilshere. I don't think I'll be able to forgive him for that. I don't think I'll love again tbh. I do actually think there is something different about this group of players. Before we had the quality but lacked the mentality. This season it seems to be the reverse. But Wenger hasn't shown signs of being able to push on from a promising foundation. 07/08, 09/10 were both promising seasons but instead of building on it the next season is worse. He should have run out of chances last summer but here he is making us believe once more. But yeah, he fucked over Wilskins so he can go and bring in anyone who doesn't think it's normal to be topping the injury list table.
I don't doubt the fighting spirit they've shown in recent weeks, it's been great to see. It can't be ignored though that we were pathetic in Milan and powderpuff against Sunderland, where was the fight then? I think I've been duped enough times in recent years by what's gone on, I'm just a little skeptical now about anything this team is proclaimed to be.
He should definitely go, we have no chance of winning a thing with him in charge.
It's been a terrible season IMO and except for a few results very forgetable, the season was as good as over in February, 4th place is good (but not success) but are we happy to just continue making up the numbers in the CL and failing time after time to succeed when the opportunity is there?
This run hasn't changed my opinion on Wenger. I think the players have some real fight and character over the past few weeks. They're fighting back to prove people wrong and under such circumstances, we always have a few months where we play amazing football. This has happened before. We're on a good run. And it's not because of a change in tactics, selection or anything like that.
In my personal opinion, Rosicky should have been playing months ago. From the start of the season, but Wenger favoured Ramsey even though he was a piss poor choice and showing it every week. It took an injury to Ramsey for Rosicky to get a good run of games. It wasn't a tactical decision, it was circumstance. I won't go too hard on Wenger, Rosicky hasn't always been available for selection, but he should have been first choice for this season. He's been playing well from the get go and gets better with each game.
I don't think Wenger will do anything different come next season. I don't expect anything drastic in the transfer window. I don't expect him to try a different approach on the pitch. This is why I think he should still go. I really enjoyed last nights game and it's the best I've seen us play in a long time. But I think he's taken us as far as he can. He has to improve in certain areas and grow otherwise it will be the same story.
:lol:
It's been a terrible season if you're a glory hunter who is only interested in trophies. But if you're interested in the journey of a season, the ups and downs that necessarily go with being a football fan, then this has been quite an interesting one. It's had some awful moments (Old Trafford etc) but some brilliant ones too (Chelsea away, the run we're on at the moment). If you don't have any downs then you can't appreciate the ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsMe
Of course trophies are what a club at our level should be aspiring to and the fact it's been so long is certainly a failing on Wenger's part, one which he should have been sacked for. But right now we're showing a lot more fight and a top 4 finish is looking probable which defies most of our expectations for much of this season. If we do the right things this summer (big if of course but the Podolski rumours are encouraging and if true give some indication we're looking to do things right this year and not scrabble around on deadline day) then we could push on next year.
As for making up the numbers in the CL, again it's not all about whether we win it or not. The AC Milan game at home was fantastic. We didn't do enough to go through but no-one could sensibly fault their efforts on the night or feel anything but pride at the way we fought. It was one of best atmospheres I've been in at the Emirates and night like that are worth being in the competition whether we progress or not.
I think right now I want him to stay as I see signs of hope but there have been too many false dawns before so I'm not certain about it. It's certainly not true that any idiot could come in and we'd suddenly be sweeping all before us again, if we do replace Wenger we'd have to be very careful in who we bring in.
:lol:
We'll win the league next season.
No spoilers :angry:Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
i think we need a separate poll with a shortlisted possible replacements for Wenger - yea lets take it that far cuz if we factor in by his predisposed arrogance, then we pretty much know there won't be much change at the Emirates under his stewardshipQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I just don't see Utd, Sp*ds, City, Chelsea getting much better than they already are. And we can. Add more quality to what we have, and I seriously think we have something to work with....if we can keep this same mentality, that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I agree he should go and will expand on this later when I have the time to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsMe
But I have to take issue now with your forgettable season comment. This season has been anything but forgettable. I cannot recall going through such a rollercoaster of a ride within one season. Ever.