How do we overcome Mourinho's Chelsea?

A bit of a twofold question, in actual fact, seeing as we pit our wits against them tomorrow night. Chelsea have been incredibly fortunate in a couple of their recent league games (late defensive mix ups at Norwich and yesterday against Man City have allowed Chelsea to edge ahead and nick all 3 points)

It's a little concerning, because it's these very tight results that allow them to build up a head of steam, allow them to become the pace-setters (they're almost always kicking off at 3pm on a Saturday) and it has stark similarities with how they won the league in 2005, surpassing a very good effort from us.

So, do we think we'll overcome their challenge in the league? Do we think we'll beat them tomorrow, or is tomorrow irrelevant?

Tomorrow is relevant - but not to the League.

Having previously been dismissive of the LC, I do think we need to win a trophy - even if it is only the League Cup. This could help us build up our own head of steam. In the league, I don't see us finishing above Chelsea or Man City. It is touch and go as to whether we finish above Liverpool.

Which makes that match pretty fricken important as well.

I don't think we can read much into whatever the result is tomorrow given both sides will make a lot of changes.

I've always felt like Chelsea have the strongest squad and for that reason I have them as favourites for the league right now. However I don't think this team is as machine like as they were during Mourinho's first spell, they will slip up a lot more.

I think only per and santi will start tomorrow from saturdays lineup.
Fab, jenks, per, verm, nacho, frimpong, rosicky, cazorla, gnarby, bentdner, park/akpom.

Cant see it differ too much from that 11.

In bad need of ox, podolski and theo back to take the burden of the guys who seem to play every game. Next weeks game v liverpool is a muat not lose. Wouldn't be too despondent with a draw as they are on fire..

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Originally Posted by Steve French

It is touch and go as to whether we finish above Liverpool.

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http://wakingupnow.com/blog/wp-conte...ptical-dog.jpg

Hmm.

It's quite worrying.

They've got a better squad than us. I mean Lukaku who's scoring for fun can't get into it which tells you all you need to know about their strength in depth thanks to Roman's billions. And finally they have a world class manager who should unfortunately be able to get the best out of that. Yup, they are rightfully favourites for the title.

Only thing we can keep doing in picking up three points and hope they drop points somewhere. Torres is due a dip in form and with David Luiz and Terry on his last legs their defence is a lot more vulnerable than it was in the past.

Gah, it's just so annoying that once we look to have finally look to have a title winning team and no Ferguson to stop us we have to have a reinvigorated Chelsea side under Mourinho. It's just not fair. :(

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Originally Posted by Steve French

It is touch and go as to whether we finish above Liverpool.

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Oh we'll definitely finish above them. We're a lot better than they are and play much better football. Suarez is world class no doubt but there were times last season when he was demolishing mid table teams on his own before having a stinker in the next game. Problem is that they don't have the range of class players like we do to take the burden off him.

They're also able to play a fresh first XI every week due to no European football and that's really shown itself so far. They're players are a lot more fresh compared to ours who have look exhausted at times.

Chelsea's second string and the team they field tomorrow might look something like this:

----------------Schwarzer-----------------

Azpilicueta-----Cahill----Luiz------Bertrand

------------Mikel-----Ramires-------------

Willian------------Mata----------De Bruyne

------------------Eto'o--------------------


We've looked dead out there on the field recently and a lot of players could do with this game off. We'll still field a strong side but we could do with resting a few players who need to recover for the Liverpool game. Giroud looked absolutely shattered in the last half hour of the Palace game. Our priority should be to keep our players fit for the league and CL games. A League Cup run would be nice for the fans but I don't think it'll be relevant to league form because, as Moe says, pretty much all premier league teams play weakened line-ups for it.

It's quite clear to me that our league form in the second half of last year was linked to only playing one game a week. And it wouldn't be a surprise to see us slipping away a bit with trying to keep up with 2 games a week with a fairly thin squad. Too early for me to even guess whether we can challenge for the league but for us to have a chance we need to keep the energy levels that we showed in the last couple of months. The next couple of league games will be six-pointers. If we beat Liverpool and win at Old Trafford the belief and momentum we get from that will be like when we competed away at Bayern last season. It will surpass confidence the players can get from winning the league cup.

I'd play:

Jenks--Mert---Verm---lil Crouchy-

Rosicky---Jack----Frimpong

Gnabry---Bendtner---Cazorla

lets be honest, Chelsea will play a world class eleven anyway so whats the point in us playing the kids? this is an important game as it gives us the chance to test ourselves against probably the best team in the league + keep momentum.

In answer to the original question I really don't think we can.
Our first 11 is good enough to seriously challenge but our squad depth isn't anywhere near good enough. A few injuries, especially to a key players, and we don't have replacements who can step in and keep us at the same level.

The result tomorrow is hard to call but I don't think it'll have any bearing on the league.

Difficult to overcome Mourinho's teams, as we're seeing from Torres he seems to get an extra 15-20% out of players and they seem to work harder for him, I guess it's because he makes them feel like he's one of them (his celebration yesterday kinda shows he's like any other fan/player).

Wenger has never beaten a Mourinho team, they are always organised and good at exposing a teams weaknesses something teams we've played so far have largely failed to do.

Chelsea also have a bigger squad and thus should have a much stronger team out there, the only thing going for us is the fact we're at home but I'm not overly confident we'll beat them. As for the league, they'll be tough to beat, they'll win those tight 50/50 games and that's why I reckon they're favourites for the title.

Our squad (particularly up front) is just too lightweight, we need an extra striker, a quality one to cover for injuries and a couple other players I reckon to give us more depth.

Ozim, i agree with what you say.

Our weakness isnt hard to spot, we are vulnerable on the counter, esp in behind the FBs and Mourinho will know that. I think it will be tough but being at home and with momentum behind us we can deffo get a result.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

I don't think we can read much into whatever the result is tomorrow given both sides will make a lot of changes.

I've always felt like Chelsea have the strongest squad and for that reason I have them as favourites for the league right now. However I don't think this team is as machine like as they were during Mourinho's first spell, they will slip up a lot more.

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This. I think Chelsea will win PL TBH. I have not been overly impressed with them this season but they do grind out results in that "efficient Mourinho" manner.

They have a ridiculously deep squad too, especially in Midfield and Attack.

Agree that they are not as machine like as during Mourinho's first spell.

TBH There is not really an outstanding team in PL this season or I have yet to see one far.

I really don't care for the league cup this year. I'd have no problem with Wenger playing the kids.

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Originally Posted by Ernesto

A bit of a twofold question, in actual fact, seeing as we pit our wits against them tomorrow night. Chelsea have been incredibly fortunate in a couple of their recent league games (late defensive mix ups at Norwich and yesterday against Man City have allowed Chelsea to edge ahead and nick all 3 points)

It's a little concerning, because it's these very tight results that allow them to build up a head of steam, allow them to become the pace-setters (they're almost always kicking off at 3pm on a Saturday) and it has stark similarities with how they won the league in 2005, surpassing a very good effort from us.

So, do we think we'll overcome their challenge in the league? Do we think we'll beat them tomorrow, or is tomorrow irrelevant?

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We wont get anywhere near them in the league. And tomorrow is a sideshow

I think we might get near them but when push comes to shove they'll finish above us.

What about when shove comes to push?


I really should've gone to work tbh. Fucking countdown and capri-sun.

Just keep doing what we're doing.

Hope ozil stays fit and ramsey keeps playing like god.


Theo, podolski, ox and others due back our squad is better than some are suggesting.

We have a great chance. Fuck Chelsea.

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Originally Posted by The Ogg Monster

Just keep doing what we're doing.

Hope ozil stays fit and ramsey keeps playing like god.


Theo, podolski, ox and others due back our squad is better than some are suggesting.

We have a great chance. Fuck Chelsea.

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http://z13.invisionfree.com/goonersw...howtopic=31960

It is a bit of a shame that a few of them are back too far into November and not sooner but hopefully Theo is back in just over a week.

I have always felt that to be genuine challengers all the way to the end that is.....we will need to dip our hands into our pockets again in January. Chelsea can't recall Lukaku back as Everton paid a reported sum of 5 million to loan him for the year but they still have impressive forward options.

We don't according to Hansen.

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Arsenal may be looking down on Chelsea and Manchester City from the top of the Premier League this morning, but they will not end the season as champions.

Despite their hugely impressive reaction since losing to Aston Villa on the opening day of the season, which has enabled them to move clear at the top of the table, I still believe that Arsenal will end the campaign in fourth place.

Last season’s top three – Manchester United, City and Chelsea – will be there again, but not necessarily in that order, leaving Arsenal to claim fourth. They clearly have an embarrassment of riches in the middle of the pitch and genuinely multi-talented players in Mesut Özil and Aaron Ramsey, but their critical flaw is that they are just not good enough when they do not have the ball.

And with Arsenal now entering a run of fixtures in which they face Liverpool and United in the league, followed by games against City and Chelsea in December, the weaknesses that opponents have not exploited so far will come under much greater scrutiny.

Mikel Arteta’s dismissal against Crystal Palace on Saturday highlights the issues that Arsenal have yet to address and which the top teams will test.

Arteta was sent off for bringing down Marouane Chamakh inside the Arsenal half, just seconds after Arsène Wenger’s team had been in the Palace penalty area attacking a corner.

When you allow an opponent to break so quickly from a defensive position, it betrays a lapse in organisation and emphasises frailties when you do not have the ball.

Palace were unable to take advantage, but United, City and Chelsea will expect to punish Arsenal if they make similar mistakes against them.

The signs of the problems that are likely to arise against the big teams have been evident in recent weeks during Arsenal’s games against West Bromwich Albion and Norwich.

Arsenal could have lost at West Brom before ending up with a draw and, although they ultimately claimed a comfortable win against Norwich, Chris Hughton’s team were right in the game when trailing 2-1 and could have taken advantage of the possession they had.

The better teams will hurt Arsenal if those games develop in the same way.

They will target Arsenal’s weakness without the ball and the question marks over their central defenders and goalkeeper.

Mathieu Flamini has done a tremendous job since returning to the club this summer and has been exactly what Arsenal needed in midfield, but he will not be enough to make the crucial difference when it matters.

You have to give Wenger and Arsenal credit for the position they find themselves in now, though.

It has been a remarkable success story considering the manner of their defeat against Villa on the opening day. Back then, Wenger and Arsenal looked in real trouble. The whole world appeared to be against them. There were doubts over their top-four credentials and even their staunchest supporters were turning on the club.

Wenger steadied the ship, though, and handled the situation magnificently. He could argue that he has been proven right.

But despite the signing of Özil, who has been a great success, I still do not see a leader on the pitch when I look at Arsenal. They do not have a Roy Keane, Graeme Souness or Patrick Vieira, somebody who can bring it all together when it goes wrong, but they will need one when the bad run comes along.

My fear for Arsenal is that when their bad patch arrives, they will take an awful lot longer to emerge from it than teams such as Chelsea or City, who have already bounced back from slumps this season.

When it goes wrong for Arsenal, it will be really bad, which is why I do not see them challenging for the title.

And for all those saying that this could be the most open Premier League in years, I just cannot see it. Chelsea and City are where they want to be and United, at some point, will find momentum and results.

The big teams tend to do what they have to do in the early part of the season in the knowledge that they will come strong when the trophies are handed out.

If you run out of gas in March, April or May, you will be mentally and physically shot and miss out on everything. United have mastered the art of pacing themselves, Liverpool did it for 20 years and Chelsea and City both know what it takes.

Arsenal have started well and given themselves a chance, but only now, when they start to face the big teams, will their true credentials be borne out.

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...win-title.html

That's fair enough. But if he thinks Man Utd, Man City and Chelsea will be in the top 3, then he also doesn't think Liverpool will win the title. Any danger of a similar article on that theme?

So we should've thrown a couple of games for the sake of 'pacing ourseleves'?

Hansen is a cock but I'm fine with no one giving us a chance anyway. No one is going to believe Arsenal can do something until...well, we do. Which is fair enough.

I was going to say, I would probably be a little worried if all the pundits were backing us..... Even if Hansen's reasons are patchy.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Hansen is a cock but I'm fine with no one giving us a chance anyway. No one is going to believe Arsenal can do something until...well, we do. Which is fair enough.

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Even then we won't have deserved it :good:

Terrible article. He's never managed to conceal his bitterness from 89'.

It's true that we were poorly setup for the Arteta sending of incident and it's something we need to look at it, but Man City and Chelsea have just have equally displayed defensive fratilities especially the former. Joe Hart and David Luiz spring to mind immediately. Honestly he makes it out like they're defensive juggernaunts at the moment when nothing could be further from the truth.

The whole "Arsenal lack a leader" is just a rehash of old cliches. We don't need some big lumbering oaf shouting at everyone, what we need is a team togetherness and spirit which is something Arsene's managed to create with this squad of players after removing all the deadwood this summer.

id love it, if alan hansens last ever MOTD contained us lifting the premier league trophy and him having to praise us. bitter cunt

mourinhos chelsea this season have hardly looked that impressive. it took a massive fuck up for them to win yesterday, hardly been convincing in other games ether. cardiff, norwich etc. lost to everton and that swiss team in the CL at home. mourinho last season with madrid was made too look like a fool, finished way off of the pace, lost at home in cup final to a team that hadn't beaten madrid in about 15 years.


he's nothing special at all. and as for that celebration yesterday of him being a fan etc. bollocks. as always, its look at me, I'm mourinho

It is hard to make a case for us winning the League. We've been here many times before, but that article is such a load of cock and bull cliches, it is galling that he has become a wealthy man on the back of such drivel.

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Originally Posted by ollie the optimist

mourinhos chelsea this season have hardly looked that impressive. it took a massive fuck up for them to win yesterday, hardly been convincing in other games ether. cardiff, norwich etc. lost to everton and that swiss team in the CL at home. mourinho last season with madrid was made too look like a fool, finished way off of the pace, lost at home in cup final to a team that hadn't beaten madrid in about 15 years.


he's nothing special at all. and as for that celebration yesterday of him being a fan etc. bollocks. as always, its look at me, I'm mourinho

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and yet they are only just behind us! They haven't played that well and have managed to keep up which doesn't bode well. What you're seeing with these results they are grinding out is the Mourinho factor, Torres for example is looking a much better more committed player and they won yesterday due to this and that's down to Mourinho.

You can knock them all you like but the facts are they are 2nd having not played that well. As for the bit about him not being a fan, that's just untrue, his celebrations aren't pre-meditated they are those of a guy who loves to win and just like a fan goes crazy when his team scores, he's been like that for a long time.

And he's handsome!

Mourinho doesn't give a shit about chelsea. He only cares about himself. Everything he does is self serving.

Yeah, but he's got great pecs.

We all knew it would be a struggle with our lack of squad depth. I wouldn't write us off for any trophy just yet but yeah, we obviously aren't the favourites. It's a long season and we can only hope we get some luck with injuries and hopefully make a couple of smart January signings. I hope Wenger realises the importance of that.

Hansen is right in that we arent favourite and will probably not win the league. City and Chelsea have better squads, thats there for all to see. However, the bitter cunt does kinda contradict hismelf when he says we will struggle when we lose a game or two and the chips are down, then says the way we managed to recover from the Villa game (and situation) is great!

I can't believe we didn't try something different yesterday. We went for that bullish Wenger approach against Chelsea which hasn't worked for the best part of 10 years. Tactical crap, 3-4-5-f***in-1, or whatever the hell it is, no pace, no power, no heart. Even Spurs, under whatever guise, can manage to raise their game against Chelsea. We get done at every available opportunity, with whichever manager they have at the helm.

Anyway, onwards and hopefully upwards. I think we'd all agree that Saturday is a far more important game, and that should we still be in the thick of things title-wise, beating Chelsea on 23rd December would be better than a win yesterday. It's just that defeat, in any competition, for any of Wenger's teams, doesn't ever seem to bode well. Hence, this is worrying.

I knew I should've stuck to watching The Wrong Man's last night

I don't think Hansen has said anything wrong in that article TBH. I loathe him too and do feel he has a bit of an issue with us but...I'd take a 4th place finish now TBH. I don't think anybody realistically felt we would currently be in this position and I don't realistically feel as if we will challenge for the title come the end of the season. I am not being negative and don't feel we will be miles short but I realistically see Chelsea and Man City slugging it out for top honours and us duking it out with Man U, Spurs & Liverpool for 3rd and 4th spot.