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Only one Arsene Wenger? Has he failed to clone himself so he can manage us in perpetuity then
How many Arsene Wengers does it take to change a lightbulb?
None....the lightbulb doesn't need changing, the dirty unsafe oil lamp can be an "internal solution"
you pay for what you get
they've paid extra for the quality needed to win the league, we haven't
And how are you proposing we compete with City and Chelsea financially?Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_brighterside
The new financial deals have allowed us to start signing big (Ozil and Sanchez) but even then we can't compete with a club with the infinite money cheat on.
Before those deals were in place we had no chance.
:lol: Hilarious. Still blaming other clubs and talking about their resources when we can't even coach the basics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
:haha:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Oh Atletico! How the hell are they ever going to win la liga!
Exactly!
I don't have the figures but I think our spending over the last 10 years (prior to Ozil) has been a lot lower than it was when we were winning titlesQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
also buying 11 attacking central midfielders and neglecting the defensive side as well as keeping players on the books for too long are both signs he is far from the financial genius he is portrayed as
We've had good enough players to win the league.
In fact, the one good thing Wenger has done, is buy players who are little bit special. He has bought duds, but every manager does.
The stupid berk is just too blinded, and too stubborn to address areas of weakness, as he doesn't like being proved wrong. And he expects his players to find on the pitch solutions themselves...he doesn't do tactics.
Good players, managed well make a successful team. Brilliant players managed badly, crumble.
Well, no. Clearly we should be doing better with the resources we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
But we can't compete with City and Chelsea in the transfer market, clearly.
Those two facts aren't inconsistent.
Do you think anyone bar Chelsea or City can win the title this year?Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
:)
EDIT: Since we last won the title only 3 teams have done it. Utd, City and Chelsea. All 3 have bigger resources than us and one was managed by, let's face it, the GOAT. I still have no idea how they won the title last time they did, they were awful but Fergie dragged them to the title by sheer will.
We should certainly be doing better but cherry-picking a rare counter-example does not alter the fact that, in general, the teams with the biggest resources tend to be the ones winning titles.
That has less to do with money and more to do with the fact we have an incompetent manager. If Wenger and Simeone had changed positions in the last 3 seasons. 2 things are certain. Madrid would not have won la Liga or reached CL final, Arsenal would have been closer in challenging for the big prizes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
I'd say it's a bit of both.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
There seems to be something going very wrong behind the scenes at Arsenal, clearly we are far less than the sum of our parts right now and that's down to Wenger. But you cannot sensibly deny that the resources City and Chelsea have are highly correlated to their success.
I don't consider it a failure to finish below them, but if we're not even challenging them then that isn't good enough as with our resources we should be much closer than we are.
[QUOTE=Letters;431850]Do you think anyone bar Chelsea or City can win the title this year?
But then that would suggest the same last year - Liverpool were a Gerrard slip away from winning it last year with a very similar team to the one they had had the year before, no major money spent only decent signings that we could have made.
And how are they doing this year?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
People were creaming themselves over Rodgers last year and others of us were gently suggesting that as well as Liverpool were doing they were helped by having one absolutely world class player - Suarez's scoring rate last year was insane - and the fact that they had no European football and poor cup runs. They played 43 games last year, we played 56. They lost Suarez in the summer and have CL football to contend with and they've been all over the shop. One good season does not a summer make.
How they are doing this year is not the discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
You are suggesting that because of money only City & Chelsea can win the league. Others on here whilst certainly having to agree that money is the major factor, would also suggest that you need a manager who spends that money on areas that improve not just the starting line up but the squad to be successful. Mourinho continually identifies his needs an acts accordingly, not with potentially good players but with top quality players. Yes, the money allows him to do this but we are not talking about him Messi type money here. Wenger unfortunately continues to do the opposite.
Liverpool's success last year proved that a well drilled side put together at reasonable cost with a passionate captain, a versatile game plan dependent on opposition & ofcourse a world class striker can challenge Chelsea & City, they finished above Chelsea.
After all the years of Wenger we DONT have a well drilled side, We DONT have a passionate captain, We DONT have a game plan dependant on opposition & the only world class player we have is currently the difference from us being near the bottom of the table & will undoubtedly be overplayed until injured.
It's the biggest factor. Of course you need a top manager but you wouldn't get one of those without paying them the big bucks so one way or another it all comes back to the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
Chelsea and City would not be where they are but for the billionaire owners. Chelsea showed you could buy success, City have showed you can do it with any club if you pump in enough money for long enough.
I don't think there is an argument that the odds aren't in favour of Chelsea and City, however Wenger has been content to hide behind the odds rather than fight back.
It's not the financial muscle of Chelsea and City that caused us to lose the league cup final to Birmingham, consistently finish second in Group phases of the Champions League we should be winning and to be competitive in a title race up until February and March and go through a diabolical run of form to the point where we are hanging on by our fingertips to European qualification.
The unfair advantage Chelsea and City have, and the failings of Arsenal teams managed by Wenger have always been two seperate issues. I think it was always going to be difficult to stop Chelsea running away with the league, but what they have spent isn't responsible for us winning four games from eleven and being nearer to Burnley than them in terms of point difference.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Couldn't agree more with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Overlooking tactical and personnel issues, no proactive in-game management, gambling with the squad etc. None of that has anything to do with Chelsea and City.
Barcelona/Real won La Liga for 10 years straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Until Atletico and their oil money did it.
Stop speaking sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
Been a minute since I last agreed with you, but this is a top post right here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
But aren't we paying Wenger more than what Mourinho & Pelerini get?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
This is the "my granddad smoked 40 a day every day for 60 years and lived till he was 90. That proves smoking isn't bad for you" school of logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
Possible != Probable
Not really sure how that's relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dein-machine
:blink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Well I think the point is if we are paying AW more money than the plutocrat clubs are paying their respective managers, are we really getting value for money?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Unless of course you are saying that we need to pay him that money because no other manager could even get us top four, let alone a significant title challenge?
The point is My dear Letters is that there is unquestionably a wealth chasm between ourselves and City and Chelsea, but if you break down it season per season with the squandered chances, lessons unheeded and mistakes repeated the wealth gap has been an all too convenient excuse nothing more.
Because you say that you wouldn't get a top manager without paying big bucks - we are paying big bucks & competing with City & Chelsea on that score so I don't understand how your point is relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Letters doesn't like facts that contradict his entrained line of thinking. You can only beat the moneyed clubs with money....but when some club like Athletico do it or Pool almost do it. he says its a 1 off. We Arsenal, haven't had a 1 off season since 2004 when we were the 2nd highest spenders in the PL (3rd really, but Abramovich was just getting warmed up back then). fact is you can challenge and consistently if you just get smarter. Instead Wenger just sulks and starts throwing tantrums. Imagine claiming that Chelsea spent more money than us so that why they beat us 2-0. we were not even remotely in that game. Chelsea's last Cl match was against a team whose yearly budget I am sure is less than Wengers salary. we had just spent almost 80m on 2 players in that same team and he claims we were broke. Thats why we lost.
Yes there is only 1 Arsene Wenger, I bloody hope so, cos I would not wish his 2006-2014 version on any football team.
Looks like we are 4th in this table as well :lol:
Wenger, cant even win the shitty league table :pal:
Oh, while we crib about how shitty and Chelsea are winning the league with their millions. Take a look at Manchester Utd on the table..
Money counts big time - not just in purchasing players.
No money = no Mourinho or Pellegrini at their respective Clubs.
We'd probably still be looking at the last 10 years with Man Utd and Arsenal 1 and 2 - in that order with maybe a blip or two.
That said, the money we are spending on a Manager, should be spent on one far superior to Wenger.
He was the right guy at the right time when he arrived at the Club. He was the right guy to bring us through the transition period.
He is the wrong guy now. The game has passed him by and the longer he stays or the Club persist with him, the more toxic he becomes at the Club.
:gp:
True, it's a shame it will be pitch forks when he leaves. Could have left a legend, and all could have ended on happier terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw
As frustrating as things are right now I still think in time his legacy will be appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro
As well as all the trophies the transition to the new stadium and keeping us relatively competitive through that leaves us in great shape for his successor.
I think the narrative on his departure won't be a pleasant one, however once the dust has settled he will (rightly) be remembered for everything good he's done for us.
people remember the trophies and going unbeaten but no one will remember being fourth a lotQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
he will ultimately go the way of brian clough, remembered for a great beginning and a not great (though hopefully not that rubbish!) end
IMO he's tainted his career with the way he's been in the 2nd half of his career with us, it's become hard to remember the great teams we had, they're all a distant memory now and what springs to mind is the boring tap tap football that never goes anywhere, the years of frustration in the transfer market and unwillingness to admit glaringly obvious problems in the team and of course poor tactics.
People are right, he hides behind excuses now, happy to pick up his 8 million and never really feeling like we should be challenging seriously for the big trophies.
His legacy has been tainted, I'd agree, but is it that hard to remember the great teams? You don't have any problem remembering the 'wonderful' 92/93 team who, frankly, were awful to watch. That season had a happy finish (which could easily have gone the other way) but 80% of it was horrible, we finished about 7 points above relegation, scored something like 40 goals in 42 games. It was boring boring Arsenal and their boring boringest.
The teams in the first half of Wenger's reign were far, far better and I feel priviledged to have had a season ticket during that period. Clough took Forest down in the end and I believe he's still regarded highly by Forest fans. All Wenger's done is taken us from first to fourth and he's vilified. He certainly deserves some stick and I think we all agree it's time for him to move on now but the legacy of the trophies, great football and steering us through the stadium move should not be forgotten or ignored.
You remember the good of 92/93 and conveniently forget how awful most of the season was, it would be weird to ignore all the good Wenger's done. 5 FA Cups, 3 titles, two of those doubles, an unbeaten season, amazing football, keeping our heads above water financially during a massively complicated stadium move. It's a shame he didn't go on a high last season but in the fulness of time I think his legacy will be appreciated. It bloody well should be.