Well...he is bloody frustrating at times but after a shaky start it was a #decent league season, we got some good results in big games and won the Cup. Can he push us on? Can anyone else?
Should he stay or should he go...?
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Well...he is bloody frustrating at times but after a shaky start it was a #decent league season, we got some good results in big games and won the Cup. Can he push us on? Can anyone else?
Should he stay or should he go...?
Back to back FA cup wins. Slowly moving up the league. Increased spending on genuine quality. There's really only one option.
Wenger OUT!!
12 FA Cups for Arsenal, half of those under Wenger’s reign. He is maddening at times but I wouldn’t sack him right now. We’ve finally got a squad which can seriously challenge – I felt for Villa having to deal with Sanchez, Carzola and Ozil in midfield. Wenger has his faults but so will the next guy and they’ll probably be more serious faults – some of the names bandied around to replace him are laughable.
I don't think many managers would have kept their jobs at a club at our level during all those trophyless years, but I don't think many managers would be getting the sack after the last 2 years with back to back FA Cups either.
I said I'd be satisfied if we retained the cup and I am. So it would be churlish to go on again about where his weaknesses lie at this point in time, however if we're nowhere near competing for the league and CL again next season, then he can expect the same criticism to come his way and rightly so too.
I pledge allegiance to Arsene of the house Wenger, the first of his name, King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm
This squad is good enough to seriously challenge for the PL. You can maybe use the World Cup hangover as a bit of an excuse this year but it didn't affect Chelsea, the poor start to the season was baffling. When they got it together though they were as good as anyone and I finally feel we have a squad strong enough to compete. No excuses next year, we have to seriously challenge or #WengerOut.
The CL is difficult with teams like Bayern, Barca dn Real around but we shouldn't be running scared of anyone, we should be giving anyone a game.
Wenger In, for me. We're building up a bit of momentum, two trophies in two years after all the barren years. It's time to step up and win the big ones.
Even if we don't step up next year and the cries of "Wenger out" grow louder, I'm pleased for him that his time with us hasn't ended with 10 trophyless years.
12 FA Cups for Arsenal, 6 of them under Wenger. It's pretty impressive.
He is with us until 2017 at least whether we like it or not, but I have to say I think currently and it's a very fluid issue it would merely be replacing him for the sake of it.
I think this summer will be a poor window for us and the squad will be short to to compete with Chelsea. For what is required these days, he's not ruthless enough to build a team that can get 85-90 points. He needs to get rid of one of Szczesny or Ospina and look to bring in a top GK. If one isn't available, then gamble on the next De Gea. He needs to get rid of Flamini or Arteta and bring in a top class defensive midfielder. Possibly do the same with Gibbs as he hasn't improved at all despite staying mostly injury free. He needs to get rid of all his loaned out players and get a top striker (again if none is available, he has to gamble...but on someone who genuinely looks to have a lot of talent, not Sanogo or Welbeck).
Tactically I don't have many complaints. He has taken more care for the big games and we look more competitive now. But it's annoying that he can't get his players to understand how 2 legged CL ties work.
But after Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City, Real Madrid, PSG etc. have taken their targets, on the off chance a top player becomes available late in the window, Wenger's reputation does help to bring them here. I'm not sure Ozil or Sanchez would be here without him.
The trade off is similar as always. If the new manager is able to spend more money than Wenger, we could be better off. If he can only spend the same money, we'll probably be worse off. Saying that, Wenger was unusually wasteful last summer. Debuchy looks like a waste of money right now. Welbeck hasn't take any steps forward and if he can't score goals, he can't be a CF. Ideally you need someone instead who is better than Giroud or at least gives him proper competition.
I vote Wenger out, but I would want him to leave not be sacked
My view hasn't really changed over last couple of years. There's definitely cause for optimism but I don't think we'll compete for the league again with him in charge.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
In addition to that, next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Also, next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
In conclusion, next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
Next season, next season, next season.
It's true. We haven't won anything for literally days :sulk:
What have the Romans ever done for us?
http://www1.skysports.com/football/n...al-this-summer
This will always be the struggle for us. A lot rides on next summer and although we have potential, gambling on players developing and keeping fit is what's always held us back.
We shouldn't have to spend silly money next year in theory, but I'd like to think we'll do what's necessary to bring in a player that' will improve our squad and title chances without question.
There has to be an end to the next season thing at some point. We've been using that for a decade.
He's here until 2017 anyway so that's that. But for the sake of argument, we just watched the team rip Villa a new hole in the FA Cup final. Gorgeous football, sane tactics that suited the opponent, great motivation, great ambition, high energy, sensible subs, a fast start and we kept our foot on it for 90 minutes.
So we can do it. So the manager can do it.
So what happened in the PL and CL?
Can Wenger make the necessary corrections required to keep the squad at this level over a whole season? The recent record says no, not a chance. Season after season falling short at critical moments. What's going to be different next season? Will Wenger change? He hasn't so far.
What happened in the PL was we got off to an awful start. Once we got going we matched Chelsea stride for stride.
The problem has been maintaining title winning form for a whole season, I think we finally have a squad and mentality to do that.
We do have to stop doing the "there's always next year" thing but we've started to sign a new level of players and it is making a difference, it has won us 2 trophies in 2 years for a start. It makes me think we're heading in the right direction.
This is the most optimistic I've felt about Arsenal for a long time, Saturday was the day we finally showed up in a really big game and did the business. Villa are poor but so are Hull and we made hard work of that last year. This time we swept the opposition aside playing a brand of football Wenger aspires to but hasn't quite managed over the last few years. There are no more excuses, we have to properly challenge next year. I can accept we may finish below a side who are propelled to the top by billionaires but we have the resources to push them all the way, we have to do that next year.
The mentality? That's why it was so important to keep the foot on the gas during the run-in and grab second instead of third. That would have displayed the required mentality. We didn't do that, we didn't even come close to doing it in the end. When we know for a fact the team will give 100% to the bitter end, that's when we can think about titles. Until then we are left talking about progress and getting closer and next season.Quote:
I think we finally have a squad and mentality to do that.
We've had this discussion.
There is a massive difference between 1st and 2nd.
There is NOT a massive difference between 2nd and 3rd.
Slipping to 4th would have been very disappointing but we didn't do that. The Cup Final was the priority, on the day they did the job.
If we're saying we had a bad start because of poor preparation in the summer, that's what we have to sort out first. Bad preparation has always played a part in our season run and why we fall short so often.
We need to be prepared to keep the players that are here now and also act quickly when a hot prospect is on the market or when we know we have a long term injury to a key player. No compromising on quality.
This time next year when we finish 3rd/4th (same difference), having been knocked out of the CL round of 16 by Sevilla or Porto, we will have this debate all over again.
I look forward to it.
However, we might have done a hattrick of FA (Letters) cups, so everything will be al-right then, I guess.
And you didn't understand it the first time around either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
You can't talk about a winning mentality and then claim there is no difference between 2nd and 3rd, the two concepts are entirely incompatible. You say we finally have the squad (agreed) and the mentality? I'm showing you why we don't finally have the mentality. Forget about the practical consequences of finishing 2nd or 3rd, you dwell on these but they are trivial compared to the wasted opportunity to finally beat a major doping rival by pushing on to the final whistle.
You can't seem to comprehend the winning mentality, I don't think Wenger can either. He also deals in benchmarks and averages and secondary landmarks. That's not what will push us to the top but admittedly we'll always have a place in the foothills.
I understood your argument perfectly well, you patronizing arse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I just don't agree with it :tiphat:
lol, haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
gud 1 m8
:rolleyes:
LOL just LOL at Letters
Got to go. I dont see him good enough to last the distance against a Mourinho in the PL, and no where near decent if we are to compare him to the best in Europe.
However, if your aim is 'may be' challenging for some months in the PL, may be going to the 2nd round or QF's of the CL, then he is your man.
He hasn't won the league for a long time but he hasn't had a squad this good for a long time.
People previously said we'd never win a trophy under him again. I was one of them tbf.
No, you can't possibly understand or else you wouldn't say ridiculous things such as there's no difference between 2nd and third, followed up by claims our mentality is sorted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Kinda stopped reading there. :yawn:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Of course you did, best way to avoid the fact your argument is incoherent.
No, I really didn't :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Can't be arsed with your WUMming tbh.
As a great man once said "If you're not first, you're last"
2nd or 3rd makes no difference, obviously.
Wenger is in the media today writing off our prospects of going for any of the top tier signings this summer. They don't represent value for money, supposedly. Now I agree to an extent with what he says, take Falcao for example. £50mill is a complete joke. Or Di Maria at £60mill, it's a hilariously inflated figure. But that doesn't mean ALL potential top targets are over-priced by default (in relation to the crazy market). Wenger assures us, value for money still remains his imperative. Qualifying for Europe remains a virtual trophy, not just with the manager but with some of the fans.
This is a second tier mentality. Okay, maybe you don't chase the most expensive targets. But why come out and boast about it? Maybe you secretly view qualification for the CL as the top priority each season. But again, keep that to yourself.
When the stadium was being constructed the fan base was weaned into accepting we'd be second tier until the build was complete and certain financial realities kicked in. That has happened now. So why are we still shouting the supposed benefits of our second tier status from the rooftops?
This is what has to change. The whole point of the stadium move was to be able to compete at the very top level. The very top. Somebody let our manager know.
That's the ultimate winner's mentality. The kind of mentality needed when going into a must-win game against the chavs, for example. You wouldn't have heard that great man (if he exists) say fuck it, we'll never catch this lot. Or, ease back guys, we've qualified for the CL now so take a breather. Any club with those sorry arse ideas will of course end up second best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Reynholm
All of this stuff won't change Letters mind. He's already made up his projections for next season. Top 4 +Carling cup. Job done. We have a good squad but it isn't complete, . Will he show one of Flamini and Arteta the door and get a top notch DM to give Coq some competition.
The squad isn't the problem anyway. If we really want to challenge at the top level the manager is the weak link.
Summer 2013: The fans were seething as top four and cheap signings were no longer enough = Job & reputation on the line and Wenger buys Ozil last minute to placate the baying mob, and adds the FA Cup to the top four 2014
Summer 2014: The fans were seething again as top four, one star signing and a cup were not enough = Job & reputation on the line again and Wenger buys Sanchez, several average players and adds the FA Cup 2015
Summer 2015: Fans still very much divided and some seething, as there's again been no title challenge and embarrassment in the CL = ..............
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
The problem is not the squad. The problem was not the squad last year when we got steamrolled by the big boys. The problem was not the squad when we squandered a 5 point lead with a game in hand in 2007-08. The problem is the manager. I just do not see Wenger have an idea for managers who have a plan against him. His tactical nous is as bad as it gets.. And if your expectations are that arsenal will be one of the top clubs in Europe, Wenger will NEVER be that man.
I have to say, you can see why fans of other clubs think fans of the top clubs are spoilt and arrogant. Winning the FA cup would have meant everything to the Villa fans. We should appreciate this success more.
We definitely need a better close season now though, make the right signings in good time so we can hit the ground running. That bit is the worry.
I think we all do appreciate the victory but it doesn't change opinions. Letter's is just trolling (again)with this thread. No real need to discuss this right after the FA Cup. He's looking for knee jerk reactions but it's not really happening.
You are a tosser :tiphat:Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
It's an obvious time to gauge opinion again, now the season has ended. If I wanted knee jerk reactions I'd have posted this just after the game, I deliberately waited a couple of days till the dust had settled.
I've changed my mind a few times this season. I honestly don't understand why that is so sneered at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Keeping the same opinion about something no matter what happens seems far sillier.
I don't think anyone sneers at those who change their mind. That's not what I see. I changed mine, others changed theirs. Not based on whim I'm sure, but we're two years into the period that was supposed to be the end goal of the stadium move. Yes, there have been bigger signings. Nobody is complaining about that and it's very welcome and a sign that (still within conservative bounds) the board is delivering on promises. The manager has also started to fill urgently needed positions, whether by design or pure luck. This too is good. What it is starting to give us is a squad that might seriously be able to compete for the big prizes, certainly something we all want to see. But in addition it is giving us a team capable of returning to the type of football we became accustomed to in Wenger's early years and that's the biggest prize from my point of view.
So there are plenty of positives and nobody denies that.
The negatives are all related to the manager himself. He's a great club manager, steering the club through the leaner times and keeping things steady both financially and in terms of finishing high enough up the table each year to qualify for the CL. No trivial thing and he deserves and I believe he gets plenty of credit for that. But he's not a top coach, his faults lie on the pitch. We know this because we have seen them year after year and even after the loosening of the purse strings the same faults are evident. And his stubborn streak is still a mile wide. The conclusion many have reached is that he can't take us up to the very top level that was supposed to be the point of the stadium move.
When you say things like there being no difference between 2nd and 3rd, or there's no difference between finishing above or below the gypos, or that we are making progress because we don't need to pre-qualify for the CL proper, these look back to the period we're supposed to be emerging from. They are the excuses that maybe did apply when the funds were tightly restricted and we had to sell top players. They don't apply now though, not at all or in any way. Time is up on excuses. This is what people sneer at, the excuses.
For example, the excuse about not being able to compete with the dopers went out the window this season. We had it in our hands to dispose of the gypos at least. We blew it, not because they had more money than us but because we couldn't finish out the season in the required manner. The question is why? Anyone who thinks the answer is because 2nd is no different to 3rd, or it's acceptable to slacken off because every team does it (supposedly, though look at the gypo finish to the season for contrary evidence), or we were saving ourselves for the cup (therefore not being good enough to compete on two fronts), etc, etc, excuse, excuse, is going to get sneered at.
Anyone who says we can't change the manager because there are no guarantees about how the next guy will perform, is going to get sneered at or criticised at least. Of course there are no guarantees. If managers came with guarantees then they'd settle at the top clubs and never move. This thinking is just a way of reaching for a safety net.
It's difficult to say never about Wenger's chances of grabbing another title, a little easier to say he'll never win the CL. All there is to go on when predicting the future is the evidence of the last 10 years. That evidence points at it being time for him to pass the responsibilities to somebody else if we genuinely want to push on to the top. You can say what if, what if, in the face of the evidence all day long. Or you can take the evidence and act on it. But don't make excuses to try to make the evidence go away. It's still there, in the record books. Just like a 12th Cup for the club and a 6th Cup for Wenger is in the record books. The good and the bad. A difficult decision for fans, no wonder minds change back and forwards.
But the evidence is there. Wenger's teams fail on the biggest stages, again and again, check the record books for the gory details. Under Wenger I'm sure we can almost achieve this or very nearly achieve that. We can get tantalisingly close, within sniffing distance. But never there. This is what his last 10 years tells us. Lots of fun, lots of farce, maybe another cup win (which is much appreciated but not the topmost achievement by any reckoning), but ultimately glorious failure. This is what lies in store for Arsenal under Wenger for the next 2 years at least. Is that good enough?
Of course there is that fact he won't be going anywhere until 2017 at the earliest. And listening to him after the cup win, and I'll happily grant him his moment after a day like that, he's certainly not made any firm decisions about that date yet. So he could be here for longer. I hope not because he'll degrade his legacy badly if he hangs on but fails to win a big prize.
I loved the football we played in the final though. Just as much as I hated the football we played during the season run-in.