Answers on a postcard please. It's not to score, create or seal a victory.
He just comes on and does very little.
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Answers on a postcard please. It's not to score, create or seal a victory.
He just comes on and does very little.
He hasn't done anything.
He used to be able to beat his man and send in a shit cross
He can't even do that anymore.
Get rid and get in Mahrez
Wumger paid £15 million for this pile of ****. :coffee:
Why has a thread been started about a bench player after a loss? Defence, midfield and attack weren't up to par. Have to look at their performances first.
While he should probably be doing more, Oxlade rarely gets more than 15-20 minutes worth of game time. Not worth venting our frustration at.
Hardly getting played so no chance to establish himself on games
Discussion should be solely about why Wenger is being paid 8million a year for his team to perform like they just didn't care and to shrug his shoulders about it at a post match interview.
Another player with big potential who has been held back by Wenger.
Why not? He came on again and did nothing. It was highlighted he hadn't scored for months. 6 goals in 92 games...Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
He's on my list of players we could easily sell on and forget about.
When someone like Campbell has come in and taken your position, you know you're in trouble.
We won't yet of course but I wouldn't miss him at all if he left tomorrow, he's added very little to our squad for quite some time.
He's got a lovely smile?
Got his chance tonight
Just another mediocre player that the magical Mr Wenger hasnt been able to improve. Showed real potential as a kid but he lacks a footballing brain, very similar to Theo & therefore will be nothing more than someone who occasionally does something special but lacks the ability to do it consistently. We have quite a few players like this but their normally good enough to get us 4th & into the last 16 of the C.L. so Mr Wenger & the board don't really need anything better.
Only just watching the highlights and Ox was involved with both goals. Looked pretty positive. That's something to give him credit for.
I'm a fan of Ox but it's hard to defend him these days. He looks devoid of confidence.
I'm still a believer though, I still think there's a lot more to come from him. He has to do better when he gets minutes on the pitch otherwise he wont get an opportunity. Where is the game time going to come from when Alexis is back? Campbell has already overtaken him, and Wenger plays Theo on the wing still when Giroud starts upfront.
We do not like to stick the boot in to players.
But sadly, Ox is genuinely hopeless at the moment. No way should he be starting ahead of Campbell.
Said this 3 months ago and was "questioned," by a lot of you. (some did agree, tbf)
He not good and I dont think he ever will be.
He's a headless chicken who's stagnated but I still think we should stick with him. He's still young & has time on his side. I've personally seen enough potential from him to form the opinion that there is a talented player in there, he's just playing with fear right now & is woefully out of form. He has high potential though so I think he's worth developing, Wenger has a good track record with young players.
Oh oh...you said something complimentary about Wenger.
Usually to plough fields. :coffee:
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
Any talk of getting rid or sending him out on loan is far too premature. He's a very talented kid but needs strong direction & coaching to rise up to the next level.
Where is this strong direction & coaching going to come from? - How many years has he had already had under Wenger to improve if he was going to. When we have the likes of Wiltshire, Sanchez, Cazorla, Coq & Welbeck back along with the new Egyptian our subs bench will be strong enough to send him out on loan. If its regular football he needs to improve then give it to him whilst he's still an Arsenal player but we can't afford for him to be turding around like he has been for the last few years. Coq hasn't had anyhwere near the time that Ox has had to impress & yet makes an immediate impact & plays consistently well. If Ox can't do that, he needs to go & not get in the way of somebody else who could do a better job.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw
I have plenty of issues with Wenger but I also appreciate what he has done and is doing. I just call it as I see it!
the problem with Oxlade-Chamberlain is that he will want a lot more playing time than he is getting and may agitate for a move. He doesnt have the brand concerns like Wilshere will have but I can def see Oxlade-Chamberlain being antsy and jumping at a chance to goto Swansea or Southampton, etc. As long as we get the 20-25 million that we deserve, then I am cool with it. (he gets 15 million added because he is English)Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
Fair play, if he agitates for a move then cool we either loan him out or sell him if we get a great offer. I think 25-30million is probably what we would get for him in the current market, maybe even more!Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
Ox comes across to me as someone who is fairly patient and level headed, if he's honest with himself he is in a good club right now and does get games, albeit he's not first choice.
He's not first choice for a reason and he should understand that.
My opinion is that we should persevere with him.
Wenger talking about how he sees Ox as more of a box-to-box CM and, perhaps more interestingly, 433 being a good fit for him...
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-arc...s-vital-for-ox
I still think 4231 is the best fit for our best players, but 433 would solve a couple of problems? I can see it being a great fit for Ramsey and Wilshere, as well as Ox (pick any 2 and have the usual DM as the 3rd, deepest midfielder), and it might even give us an indirect way of giving Özil a rest without necessarily needing a like-for-like replacement?
Interesting. Yeah agree with your assessment, I suspect OX will only be in the 4-3-3 when Ozil is rested.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
Worryingly a number of our home growns appear to be turning into "jack of all trades". Jack, OX, Chambers & Ramsey to a lesser degree don't appear to have nailed down a dedicated position, Walcott too...but to a lesser extent.
I know Wenger likes moving players all over the place but in the case of Jack, OX & Chambers, I think they need dedicated positions. Ramsey to a lesser extent.
I think we tried a 4-3-3 before with Rambo and Wilshere last season and it wasn't working. Interesting to hear Wenger talk about Ox as a box to box player. Seems like his time on the flanks is over.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
I don't think it's a problem with them being jacks of all trades, so much as they all seem to model themselves on former players and redundant roles that none of the top sides really use any more? For example, we touched on it the other day, but the top sides don't really want a Steven Gerrard type midfielder any more, who's going to charge around wherever the play is - it's too indisciplined. And they don't want a small, goal-poacher type striker from the days of classic 2-man strike pairings - that shit is 10 years out of date. The modern game demands defensive and holding midfielders who can control the play - midfield 'specialists' and deep lying playmakers. It demands lone strikers with wide forwards either side of them - no one gives a shit about 442 any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by selassie
What worries me isn't so much that they don't have it in them to perform one of these more modern roles - I absolutely believe that they do - it's that I never feel like they fully embrace the roles that they're given, because they're holding out for their ideal role to suddenly come back in vogue? It's like they think the game is going to revert back to the one that they grew up watching, 10-15 years ago, just because that's how they want to play? You contrast that to a lot of the foreign lads, and you never here them going on about how they're really a striker, or a central midfielder, or dropping little reminders to the manager into interviews about how it's great to get a run out in their 'best position' so they can 'show what they can do' - they just quietly get on with any job their given, and try their best to make it their own.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
Yeah I hear ya and you've touched on an interesting point regarding them not really embracing their roles, especially Theo & Ramsey ;)
Interesting, but then you look at the likes of Leicester and Watford, who play in a more traditional way, and are profiting from it. For me, its as much about players themselves recognising their strong points - and playing to them - but also being prepared to work their asses of without the ball. Its this latter trait that has lessened the gap between the EPL teams more than anything else. In our team, the likes of Campbell; Coquelin, Bellerin; Monreal and even Ramsey epitomise this. The Ox's main problem is that he doesn't defend/hussle well when not on the ball. I'm not sure that this issue will be addressed simply by playing him centrally. Wenger has always tended to 'blood' players out wide in preparation for more central roles, but I'm not sure that this is always the right blueprint.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
I think Atletico Madrid sometimes play a 4-4-2 sometimes and they are top of La Liga. Juve made it to the final with a two striker system. I agree with IBK on this one. Football moves in cycles. Maybe 10 years ago the game demanded a holding player but now we're seeing more box to box players coming back with nobody just holding like the old Makelele types. I think it's just as dangerous to assume football is going to go a certain way. But I don't think the players think that deeply about it. They just need to be the best they can possibly be and they'll find a spot. I don't think a player like Gerrard is redundant. If the game required him to be more disciplined I don't think he'd have a problem adapting. Systems change but players adapt. Would players like Henry, Zidane be redundant in the game today even though they played in totally different systems? Even old fashioned strikers like Wright, Shearer and Batistuta would find a way to play in the modern game today. Take Giroud as an example. He has the style of an old player but he makes it work.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
The Ox is talented and can be a real star for us. However, he is definitely NOT a CM as he can only run in straight lines with the ball and doesn't move the ball quickly enough. He is very much like Gibbs, with the ball at his feet, he can only run in straight lines and looks uncomfortable in posession.
Wenger seems to have issues with width, I can't stand Arteta but the fact remains we looked better in central midfield when he came on, on Saturday. With Ox there we looked shapeless as he was drifting wide anyway.
Far too early to judge what he can or can't do in that position to be fair. If he manages to clock up a good number of games in that position, then judge.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFC Leveller
I think box-to-box abilities and attributes are coming back, but not necessarily box-to-box midfielders, if that makes sense? First and foremost, I still think we're looking at these guys being holding midfielders - positionally disciplined players who keep the team's shape, and can control the ebb and flow of the game - we're just looking at a new breed of holding midfielder, who can also suddenly surge forward with the ball once they've won it (and if it's safe). It may very well just be a question of discipline, like you say, but that, for me, is a small but significant difference. It means that there's a primary job to do first, and that we're not just giving them a free role to charge about all over the pitch, with everyone else as their supporting act.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
:good:Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Yeah, I agree - that's pretty much what I was trying to say. I see no reason why any type of player can't find a way to apply their talents to a new system and a new role, provided that it's not radically different - it just feels like some of them fight any kind of change a little more than others, and it usually seems to be the British lads? I've never heard a word out of Arteta or Cazorla, for example, about being pushed into a deeper, more defensively disciplined midfield role - they just quietly got on with it - but when you ask Walcott or Ramsey to play on the right, they'll do it, but they won't be able to resist mentioning that they're really a central player, and they'd rather be playing there. It just makes me feel like they're not really committing to the new they've been given?
In regards to box to box players, it's really not a huge difference from what we've seen before. What were Petit and Vieria when first arriving at Arsenal? What was Edgar Davids for Juventus? Ballack started off as a DM that could surge forwards and make passes and just ended up being pushed further up the pitch. Same happened with Zidane and it's what we've seen with Yaya Toure. Diaby, Song and even Coquelin like to attack but it all depends on the instructions from the coach and how much free reign they give or whether they reign their attacks in.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
In regards to players complaining about where they play, do you pay attention to the complaints? I can find a quote from Cazorla saying he prefers playing in the middle and also quotes on why he's happy in this new role. He likes to be involved and get touches on the ball. That's different to being asked to play wide. Same goes for Ozil. You can find a quote from Wenger saying Ozil would prefer playing in the middle. Our British players have more access to the press so that's maybe why you hear it so often. Also, when a player isn't playing well in that position or feel uncomfortable with the position, they speak out. It's not uncommon. I remember Wiltord not being happy about being played wide, Song wanting to play in the middle and not CB, Flamini wanting a shot at DM and not LB....plenty.
I don't think the players can commit to a role they're not comfortable with or when the manager gives out hints to the press that such and such player's future is in the middle or wherever. The manager lays out that message to the press quite often.
Like so many young Arsenal players for reasons unknown he has failed to progress at club level .
I think you are probably right that players don't think too much about what their position is called - or whether they are holding; passing; box-to-box etc. I can see why players might prefer central roles to being out wide because they may feel they are more involved more centrally, and don't have to track back so much there. The truth is that there is a mixture of approaches these days. I remember when Essien was regarded as the future of football - all athleticism and power. Now Barca are the best team in the world with small, technical players. I think British football is more brawn than brain - and athletes tend to flourish - but formations - not sure there is a hard and fast rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
he is not a good enough passer for this role.Quote:
Originally Posted by I am invisible
This one needs a bump.
This boy has really stagnated, he genuinely looked a bright and exciting talent when he first came here at the age of 18? He has got progressively worse every single season.
At the moment his confidence looks to be totally shot, he was an embarrassment last night, can't pass, can't run, won't tackle, won't track back, his decision making is horrendous too, at times last night he got hold of the ball and ran head down into a crowd of players in the middle of the park. He also offers absolutely nothing offensively.
I really want to like him and for him to develop but I think his time is up here, he needs to be sold IMO.
We need to re-evaluate the quality of a few players. I’ve defended Ox but I can’t anymore. This is the same pattern as last season. A good preseason but then he chokes when the season kicks off. He’s lucky Wenger played him yesterday considering how poor he played over the weekend. It’s not down to a lack of effort. That’s for sure. We need someone to have a word in his ear. It won’t come from the manager and I have no idea who in the squad can talk some sense into him. He shouldn’t be starting games until he figures it out. It’s gone horribly wrong for him.