Where did it go wrong?

Apart from the obvious issue of not signing a single outfield until January, let alone a much needed striker these are to me the fixtures that caused our season to unravel.

I've whittled it down to eight fixtures


Chelsea (away) - 19th September 2015

Chelsea had made a truly awful start to the season and we had recovered after our own poor start. But again we showed our psychological frailty when playing a Mourinho managed side. A poor refereeing performance didn't help but let's face facts up until the time of Mourinhos sacking he managed to win twice more in the league against Aston Villa and Norwich.
Diego Costa should have been sent off but Gabriel should not have reacted


West Brom (away) - 21st November 2015

What makes a title winning side is to play badly and win, here we played well but contrived to lose with Cazorla even shooting over the bar when we were awarded a penalty to level things up. Gift wrapped both goals to the Baggies and missed a succession of presentable chances in the second half.


Southampton (away) - 26th December 2015

Defeats happen even in an otherwise good season, but from kick off to final whistle we just didn't look like a side that could be bothered, everything we could do wrong we managed to get wrong. Pushing up too much and allowing Southampton to get in behind us, constantly losing posession and creating nothing in the way of goal scoring chances


Chelsea (home) - 24th January 2016

Again an example of Chelsea being able to beat us with the minimum of effort, they know how to play us and failing to score in almost ten hours against Chelsea in the league is truly apalling, especially a Chelsea side that looks unmotivated and directionless.


Southampton (home) - 2nd February 2016

Fraser Forster made a lot of saves but none that he would not have been expected to make, the point where both Leicester and Spurs overtook us in the table....we have not been higher than third since.


Manchester United (away) - 28th February 2016

Pundits believed that due to a catalogue of injuries for United plus their own indifferent form meant this was a likely win for us, it appeared that the players believed it as well and put none of the effort in required to secure that win. Defeats happen but they happen to Arsenal more often than not because the side can't be bothered to apply themselves.


Swansea (home) - 2nd March 2016

Typical Arsenal any poor performance has a knock on effect, totally inept performance and the point where we realised that the title had predictably evaded our grasp.



West Ham (away) - 9th April 2016
Anything can happen in this league even if you are eight points behind, but we failed to put any pressure on either the league leaders or the team in second by completely collapsing after getting a two goal lead. Even not winning the title could have been mitigated by fighting to the end of the season but fight is what we lack.

I'd also include the opening day defeat to West Ham, although we recovered well I think it set the tone for what has been a particularly poor season at the Emirates.

:gp:

Not having any movement upfront and no output from our midfielders bar Ozil. Joel Campbell being dropped for no reason when he's been on a good run too. Ramsey being shit. Elneny/Iwobi too little too late. Gabriel is useless when relied upon. BFG costly errors, Kosc with a few too

Good opening post.

I felt angry after Chelsea, numb after Swansea at home and distraught after Watford in the Cup.

It's been a horrible season. I've been used to bottle jobs by the club since 1999. They still manage to drag me through it though.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

I'd also include the opening day defeat to West Ham, although we recovered well I think it set the tone for what has been a particularly poor season at the Emirates.

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Perhaps but in of itself it wasn't really what I regard as a key defeat

Defeats against Chelsea, West Brom and Southampton were more telling of the overall mental fragility and tactical failings in the side. The West Ham game was in of itself, just a game we'd failed to prepare for and too early in the season to be pivotal.
But that's just my opinion....a case could be made for it being a grim portent.

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Originally Posted by Munchies

:gp:

Not having any movement upfront and no output from our midfielders bar Ozil. Joel Campbell being dropped for no reason when he's been on a good run too. Ramsey being shit. Elneny/Iwobi too little too late. Gabriel is useless when relied upon. BFG costly errors, Kosc with a few too

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I remember being pilloried for calling Ramsey shit 2-3 years ago. :doh:

You can add chucking away the League Cup tie to that list. That was a big indicator of how our manager feels about winning, losing and that in-between thing he strives for. Every time he throws a game, like the two openers in the CL, it comes back to haunt us. This has been true for years, way back into his successful period even. He doesn't take winning seriously. That's at the root of where everything has gone wrong, for years.

Our goal this season was the premier league therefore I confined myself to league games.

Though funny you mention the league cup, as I watched that this morning obviously to punish myself for something and it really struck me how they looked like the premier league side and we looked like the championship team.

In the opinion of the manager and the owners, nothing has gone wrong at all. We've finished fourth again. That's where it all went wrong.

Sorry, but I don't think that any of that matters. Had we won all eight of those matches 4-0, we would have just lost and gone through the motions in a different 8 games instead and there'd be a different list. We have our 20-25 games to play well in, to ensure 4th. That leaves 15 odd where you don't need to give a toss.

It also never ceases to surprise me that us signing quality players makes any difference at all. Had we signed a world class centre back, midfielder and striker in September, two things would have happened.

a) They have all been out injured for four months.

b) They'd have been conditioned to aim for fourth place, nothing more, nothing less.

It went wrong in 2010.. thats when we should have fired that dinosaur.

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Originally Posted by Gubby Allen

Sorry, but I don't think that any of that matters. Had we won all eight of those matches 4-0, we would have just lost and gone through the motions in a different 8 games instead and there'd be a different list. We have our 20-25 games to play well in, to ensure 4th. That leaves 15 odd where you don't need to give a toss.

It also never ceases to surprise me that us signing quality players makes any difference at all. Had we signed a world class centre back, midfielder and striker in September, two things would have happened.

a) They have all been out injured for four months.

b) They'd have been conditioned to aim for fourth place, nothing more, nothing less.

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:gp: It was destined to end up like this. It always does.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Manchester United (away) - 28th February 2016

Pundits believed that due to a catalogue of injuries for United plus their own indifferent form meant this was a likely win for us, it appeared that the players believed it as well and put none of the effort in required to secure that win. Defeats happen but they happen to Arsenal more often than not because the side can't be bothered to apply themselves.


Swansea (home) - 2nd March 2016

Typical Arsenal any poor performance has a knock on effect, totally inept performance and the point where we realised that the title had predictably evaded our grasp.

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These two are where things really came to a head for me. Those before it, you're going to get bad results in any season but none had been catastrophic up to that point. The Leicester win put us 2 points off the top, we were over the worst of our difficult run, the late goal felt like a 'moment' and put us right back in contention for the title.
Then we go and lose to a Utd side ravaged by injuries and full of kids and then, worse, we lose at home to an awful Swansea team in a game we absolutely had to win after the Utd disappointment.
That's the moment when I snapped with Wenger. IMO with the trophies in the last 2 seasons he earned the right to have one last go at the title but he's completely cocked it up, and I don't agree with those saying he was done years ago, it's only in the last few years we've had the money to sign players like Ozil and Sanchez so I could accept a certain amount of treading water till then, but it's not good enough any more and it's clear he can no longer push us on.
I just hope he goes this summer - he won't, obviously, but if he did then I think he would still go out with some dignity and his legacy would be appreciated. I think it still will be in time, but the longer he goes on the more of it he tarnishes.

This is what I mean about Wenger and momentum. That last gasp goal by Welbeck should have been the spark that ignited a genuine title push. Instead it was signal to start undoing all the good work. Happens all the time.

Think the United away result was the turning point. To lose against a struggling side with more injury problems than we generally have was awful. It was our chance to show intent and that we mean business to win at the ground of the biggest club in the country.

instead we lost and it was terrible.

People who want to defend the manager will claim this season as an outlier and say well for the most part it's money that brings titles. This season proves its possible to confound that belief.

Ultimately it's not about who is above us, it's about what points they are on relative to us. Leicester are champions currently ten points above us in third but they are ten points ahead of us on 77 points with only 22 wins and the maximum they are able to get is 83 points. Which would be the lowest total the league has been won by in five years.

So whatever you say about Leicester and credit to them, they have surpassed us with a very achievable points total.

We have once again lost seven games, just like the season before and the season before and the season before. In fact the last time we lost fewer than seven games in a league season was seven years ago (2008/2009 when we lost six). It merits saying that no side has won the title in the premier league era in a 38 game season with more than six defeats.

And then you look at where we are dropping points, we lost 4-0 at Southampton (a ground we have not won at since before they last got relegated from the premier league) who we also lost 2-0 to at St Mary's last season. We failed to beat them at home in the league either, and we struggled to break them down the season before only getting a 1-0 win in the final minutes of the game.
Then we have the 2-1 defeat to Swansea following on from losing 1-0 at home to them last season and in fact we haven't won a home league fixture against Swansea since September 2011.
We are doubled by the worst Chelsea side since Abramovich bought the club, extending our record of not being able to score against them since Walcott scored at Stamford Bridge back in January 2013.
Man United at Old Trafford? Since we last won there in the league in 2006 we have lost seven and drawn two
Making it just possible to conclude that we lose or drop points to the same sides again and again because we are so predictable....Stoke? We draw there this season but have only won there once in eight league encounters

Anfield? Fairly good record there comparatively but like last season we eek out a barely deserved lead but fail to hold onto it

Spurs? They have a competent manager so haven't beaten them in the last four league attempts, won once in seven at white hart lane, losing four and drawing three.

It's not just the way the season pans out that is predictable in many respects the individual fixtures are as well, there are just certain teams we can look at and say we probably will drop points in that fixture.

Do people even defend him anymore? I haven't heard a case for Wenger staying that isn't laced with sentiment for years. He's defended from the bile which is understandable but there's surely no case for him if you want to look at it purely from a football and results based perspective.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Do people even defend him anymore? I haven't heard a case for Wenger staying that isn't laced with sentiment for years. He's defended from the bile which is understandable but there's surely no case for him if you want to look at it purely from a football and results based perspective.

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It's pretty impossible to defend someone who makes the same fuck ups time and time again.

Especially when it's fuckin obvious to most (amateurs and professionals alike) what the problems are.

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Originally Posted by LDG

It's pretty impossible to defend someone who makes the same fuck ups time and time again.

Especially when it's fuckin obvious to most (amateurs and professionals alike) what the problems are.

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Agreed.

Letters OUT!

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Do people even defend him anymore?

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Yes, yes they do

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Yes, yes they do

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Bloody too right they do. I have a word for them...

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Bloody too right they do. I have a word for them...

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Yes, yes you do

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Apart from the obvious issue of not signing a single outfield until January, let alone a much needed striker these are to me the fixtures that caused our season to unravel.

I've whittled it down to eight fixtures


Chelsea (away) - 19th September 2015

Chelsea had made a truly awful start to the season and we had recovered after our own poor start. But again we showed our psychological frailty when playing a Mourinho managed side. A poor refereeing performance didn't help but let's face facts up until the time of Mourinhos sacking he managed to win twice more in the league against Aston Villa and Norwich.
Diego Costa should have been sent off but Gabriel should not have reacted


West Brom (away) - 21st November 2015

What makes a title winning side is to play badly and win, here we played well but contrived to lose with Cazorla even shooting over the bar when we were awarded a penalty to level things up. Gift wrapped both goals to the Baggies and missed a succession of presentable chances in the second half.


Southampton (away) - 26th December 2015

Defeats happen even in an otherwise good season, but from kick off to final whistle we just didn't look like a side that could be bothered, everything we could do wrong we managed to get wrong. Pushing up too much and allowing Southampton to get in behind us, constantly losing posession and creating nothing in the way of goal scoring chances


Chelsea (home) - 24th January 2016

Again an example of Chelsea being able to beat us with the minimum of effort, they know how to play us and failing to score in almost ten hours against Chelsea in the league is truly apalling, especially a Chelsea side that looks unmotivated and directionless.


Southampton (home) - 2nd February 2016

Fraser Forster made a lot of saves but none that he would not have been expected to make, the point where both Leicester and Spurs overtook us in the table....we have not been higher than third since.


Manchester United (away) - 28th February 2016

Pundits believed that due to a catalogue of injuries for United plus their own indifferent form meant this was a likely win for us, it appeared that the players believed it as well and put none of the effort in required to secure that win. Defeats happen but they happen to Arsenal more often than not because the side can't be bothered to apply themselves.


Swansea (home) - 2nd March 2016

Typical Arsenal any poor performance has a knock on effect, totally inept performance and the point where we realised that the title had predictably evaded our grasp.



West Ham (away) - 9th April 2016
Anything can happen in this league even if you are eight points behind, but we failed to put any pressure on either the league leaders or the team in second by completely collapsing after getting a two goal lead. Even not winning the title could have been mitigated by fighting to the end of the season but fight is what we lack.

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The Southampton away thrashing was when I really started to doubt whether we could sustain the challenge, it was an awful performance and the result was completely unexpected. I didn't expect us to steam roller them but I thought we'd put in a decent performance and get something out of the game. That was the start of the collapse IMO, that defeat really exposed the mental weakness of this team.

Up until the United away defeat I was still doubting whether this team had the fight in them to challenge for the title but thought we're up against Leicester and the Spuds, surely we can keep apace, we'd just beaten Leicester so the momentum was with us, I thought this is our chance and maybe it's going to be our year at last though I wasn't fully convinced.

The United performance for me was our worst of the season, it was a disgusting and shameful performance, we were 2nd to everything and basically got played off the park by a struggling and injury ravaged United Youth team. I knew that was it after the game, we'd blown it, the title was gone. The defeat was very damaging.

I was numb to it all after that, I wasn't even angry after the Swansea defeat, the season died for me at Old Trafford.

Southampton away was bad but we were still top or near the top at that point so I foolhardily chalked it up to a bad day at the office. Plus, not arguing against the fact that we weren't shit that day but iirc Southampton's goals were incredibly jammy, a once in a blue moon world class strike from a pub team player and Shane Long fouling Kosicenly and getting away with it due to incompetent referring from John Moss (I think?) ........... we probably should have squeezed out a 0 - 0 that day.

Chelsea at home and United away were the massive killer blows. We just incredibly poor and impotent ........ like we didn't want to win the title. Swansea at home was when even the faint hopes were completely extinguished for me. What a shit night that was.

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Originally Posted by The Emirates Gallactico

Southampton away was bad but we were still top or near the top at that point so I foolhardily chalked it up to a bad day at the office. Plus, not arguing against the fact that we weren't shit that day but iirc Southampton's goals were incredibly jammy, a once in a blue moon world class strike from a pub team player and Shane Long fouling Kosicenly and getting away with it due to incompetent referring from John Moss (I think?) ........... we probably should have squeezed out a 0 - 0 that day.

Chelsea at home and United away were the massive killer blows. We just incredibly poor and impotent ........ like we didn't want to win the title. Swansea at home was when even the faint hopes were completely extinguished for me. What a shit night that was.

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Surely you jest?

Our defence was shocking, we could barely string a pass together and created nothing up front.....whether the goals were legitimate or not brush over the fact that it would have been a travesty for us to have come away with anything but defeat. The attitude of the players stank, we didn't care and we deserved to lose we were certainly not unlucky in any way, shape or form.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Surely you jest?

Our defence was shocking, we could barely string a pass together and created nothing up front.....whether the goals were legitimate or not brush over the fact that it would have been a travesty for us to have come away with anything but defeat. The attitude of the players stank, we didn't care and we deserved to lose we were certainly not unlucky in any way, shape or form.

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Stats say Ozil created 4 chances. I highlight that point because it brings it back to that debate about how many chances we create and if they're of any real quality.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Stats say Ozil created 4 chances. I highlight that point because it brings it back to that debate about how many chances we create and if they're of any real quality.

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That's odd, it's not like you to be facetious

I could turn it on it's head and say even in a game where he was apalling he was still creating chances, and if hell freezes over i might watch the whole game in it's entirety and tell you how good the chances were (i.e were the chances the kind a player like Aguero would have snaffled).

But i get the impression that having a debate with you will be as productive as having a debate with the girl i share a house with who at least has the excuse of not having English as a first language, and at least she has the benefit of being attractive.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

Stats say Ozil created 4 chances. I highlight that point because it brings it back to that debate about how many chances we create and if they're of any real quality.

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To be honest this point is hard to assess at Arsenal as we have some real donkeys up front, our strikeforce is just awful and misses chance after chance, only a madman would go into a season with that lot.

A more accurate portrayal of what he provides is how he performed at his former clubs and his stats were always very good there.

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Originally Posted by Özim

To be honest this point is hard to assess at Arsenal as we have some real donkeys up front, our strikeforce is just awful and misses chance after chance, only a madman would go into a season with that lot.

A more accurate portrayal of what he provides is how he performed at his former clubs and his stats were always very good there.

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Ooooh you've tagged yourself in

Go for it, i don't feel qualified to carry on this debate without continual use of Babelfish

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

That's odd, it's not like you to be facetious

I could turn it on it's head and say even in a game where he was apalling he was still creating chances, and if hell freezes over i might watch the whole game in it's entirety and tell you how good the chances were (i.e were the chances the kind a player like Aguero would have snaffled).

But i get the impression that having a debate with you will be as productive as having a debate with the girl i share a house with who at least has the excuse of not having English as a first language, and at least she has the benefit of being attractive.

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Really? This really has nothing to do with comprehension skills. It just boils down to having a different opinion and you can clearly understand my argument and I clearly understand yours. We just don't agree on certain points. You can attempt to turn this argument on its head and rewatch the match if you wish but you'd then be shifting goal posts.

Your initial first thoughts on that Southampton game says it all. You don't remember us creating many great chances. That's in line with my thoughts on a lot of games we've played recently. It's why I don't rely on certain stats if they don't line up with what I'm seeing during a game. I can't remember the Southampton game fully but over the past months our game has been stale and we haven't been opening teams up. That's not saying the fault is with Ozil 100%. I think it boils down to the type of movement we have going on in front of him and whether the striker is looking to find space or more interested in dropping deep and wrestling off the defender.

That should be a clear enough point that shouldn't cause much confusion. Whether you agree is a different matter and it's on you to come up with a clear rebuttal if you don't. It's ridiculous to question my intelligence and or grasp of English if you're the one unable to come up with a logical counter argument. :lol: Really!

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Originally Posted by Özim

To be honest this point is hard to assess at Arsenal as we have some real donkeys up front, our strikeforce is just awful and misses chance after chance, only a madman would go into a season with that lot.

A more accurate portrayal of what he provides is how he performed at his former clubs and his stats were always very good there.

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I don't doubt Ozil's quality as a playmaker. It's just goes back to debate of wheather he's more important than a top quality striker. For Arsenal, I think it's more important we have that striker because I believe they would have more of an impact on the team. I mean, Ronaldo is a game changer and goal scorer with or without Ozil.

Unless chances are absolute sitters that are missed, how many chances do you remember in a game which haven't resulted in a goal....I'm going to guess not many.

What is more interesting that you seem keen to single him out for criticism in a game where the whole team performance was dire.....and if i had made the point that he played brilliantly in every single league game this season your point would actually have some merit....but as i intimated originally it seemed to me to be a facetious remark and therefore i treat it with the contempt it deserves by mentioning a language barrier.

Which was in fairness a hangover from the discussion from the other week where you seem to be constantly arguing against a point I hadn't made to begin with.

"We don't agree on certain points?".....if every debate boiled down to that there would be no point in having a debate in the first place, in fact this place would forever be as dead as it is during the international breaks.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

I don't doubt Ozil's quality as a playmaker. It's just goes back to debate of wheather he's more important than a top quality striker. For Arsenal, I think it's more important we have that striker because I believe they would have more of an impact on the team. I mean, Ronaldo is a game changer and goal scorer with or without Ozil.

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And i bring you back to Ronaldo's performances for Portugal compared to his performances for Real Madrid

Messi's performances for Argentina compared to his performances to Barcelona.

The playmakers behind them make them better players

In fact the original debate has been perverted, it was never about whether a top quality striker was more important than a playmaker....it was about whether individually Ozil was harder to replace than Sanchez. Sanchez isn't a top quality striker given that he isn't a striker and although i would never want to lose him there are more players of his ilk avaliable then there are of Ozil's type.

So the debate was based on individual players.....i'd rather keep both and add a top quality striker.

You must have missed my debates with others on players like Giroud, Ramsey and Gabriel. It's not just Ozil and I haven't actually pointed out a criticisn of Ozil during that game. It's just an observation about the stats.

Also, as mentioned before, International football is different to club level. Different tactics, managers and a complete change of supporting players. From defence to uo front. But in the small changes at Real and Barca with key playmakers, has that stopped Ronaldo or Messi from scoring? I complete regime change at international level is different to one or two players leaving at club level.

I won't draw this one out but you seem to be following my use of English perfectly fine. You parts of the debate at least.

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Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory

You must have missed my debates with others on players like Giroud, Ramsey and Gabriel. It's not just Ozil and I haven't actually pointed out a criticisn of Ozil during that game. It's just an observation about the stats.

Also, as mentioned before, International football is different to club level. Different tactics, managers and a complete change of supporting players. From defence to uo front. But in the small changes at Real and Barca with key playmakers, has that stopped Ronaldo or Messi from scoring? I complete regime change at international level is different to one or two players leaving at club level.

I won't draw this one out but you seem to be following my use of English perfectly fine. You parts of the debate at least.

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To be fair the original insult was that you couldn't understand me but I didn't see any reason not to invert it

It could be international tactics and style of play or it could just be that the Argentine and Portugese midfield doesn't have the same quality as Real Madrid and Barcelona.

Anyway you are quite right, this shouldn't drag out. As addictive as arguing is, I am at work.

Come on now.....you lot don't have jobs....

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Originally Posted by Blink 1nce Quince 2wice

Come on now.....you lot don't have jobs....

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That's what I tell the DWP anyway

So....who won the Internet?

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Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw

So....who won the Internet?

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You if you like

it went wrong because for all wenger's guff about Ze mental strengf he doesn't I still enough into his charges.