Wenker Out
Shit performance after shit performance.
Getting dominated for the whole game.
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Wenker Out
Shit performance after shit performance.
Getting dominated for the whole game.
:lol:
Not arsed.
Shitbuckets. A win would have guranteed top place as even a loss against Basel wouldn't be enough for PSG to beat a superior head to head record. Now we have to hope that Ludograts get something in Paris whilst we do the business in Switzerland.
Once again we bottle'd it. Shit performance apart from a brief 20 minute spell at the start of the second half.
Oh well, bring on Barca and going out in the last 16 for the 7th year in a row. I don't know why we bother tbh.
Arsenal's potential Round-of-16 CL opponents as it stands:
Barcelona
Atletico Madrid
Borussia Dortmund
Juventus
Monaco
Benfica
Kerrrrrching!!!!
Well we all know why don't we.:fury:Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
Wenger can't help himself so there's no chance he can help the team.
Inexplicable team selection that resulted in the inevitable shitty performance. No energy in the team at all, they just stood there and watched the match taking place around them. Luckily Cavani is as hyped as shrek. It looked like we settled for the draw in the end. That typifies Wenger. Bring on two attackers and then sit back. No reason no plan, nothing. It's a travesty this guy gets paid.
50/50 toss up if we are lucky enough to get Benfica. So 90% chance we are out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
1st or 2nd I'm not really bothered. It's obvious we are not good enough to beat the best teams in this competition, unless we fluke it.
We have Cavani to thank for letting us off the hook again. What a man.
Dont know why we bother with this competition. 2nd round knockout by Barcelona.
FYPQuote:
Originally Posted by fakeyank
Have to say, as poor as we were.....even if it was Wenger managing them and Emery managing us. They are for me a better side than us.
Although on the other hand despite the immense individual talent, I think Emery has them playing like a team. If Cavani actually gains any confidence in front of goal I think they would be challengers for the entire competition.
Veratti and Moura are exceptional players
Unlike Rooney, Cavani makes runs and actually looks dangerousQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I've said for a while even looking beyond team selection (atrocious) and tactics (it took us 30 minutes for it to occur to us to close them down high up the pitch). There is a confidence fundamentally lacking, even when we did press them look at PSG and how good they are at trapping balls, first time passes and finding a team mate under pressure. We panic in these situations, because we have an aging has been who doesn't seem to want to take the time to make the players function as a unit. Not only that but we don't have a squad of big personalities, Sanchez, Koscielny and maybe Cech.....when that's the case you look to the bench for inspiration and character and they see a sagging beuracrat type in a oversized duffel coat.
It appears the only reason why we are in the CL is to keep the Spuds miserable. As crap as we always are they invariably are shittier.
In reality We could never win it in another 20 attempts with Inspector Clouseau in charge. Our 2 opportunities were in 2004 and 2006, we screwed it up both times and have only been worse since.
Shocking stats of the match. This comes courtesy of @YankeeGunner via Twitter. Had to check this for myself on StatZone.
Ozil played only 2 passes to Giroud all game. Sanchez only 2 passes to Biff. Gibbs and Ospina found Bif the most with 4 passes each. :lol:
Our central midfield pair of Rambo and Coq passed Ozil the ball 8 times all game. Ozil received 3 passes from Rambo and 5 from Coquelin. Last match, Elneny found Ozil 15 times on his own.
Iwobi managed to pass the ball to Ozil 13 times and Ozil was able to pass to Sanchez 12 times. 9 for Ramsey.
Ramsey's top 5 players he passed to.
Mustafi - 12
Kos - 8
Coquelin - 8
Sanchez - 7
Jenks - 7
Backwards central! I suppose Sanchez was only in the mix because he comes hunting for the ball when frustrated.
We have to eliminate the weak links. Giroud and Rambo are dysfunctional.
The only team on that list that I think we could knock out over 2 legs is Benfica, Monaco is a 50/50, the rest would knock us out IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchies
It doesn't matter anyway because we're nowhere near good enough to progress far in this tournament.
Whilst I agree, it should be noted that we were just as bad if not worse in Paris when neither of these startedQuote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
The passing stats are totally unsurprising to me, we looked totally unable to deal with PSG pressing where as conversely PSG midfielders are confident, can trap a ball well and good at one touch passing.
The line up was atrocious, but I'm not entirely confident a different line up would have yielded a better result/performance. PSG play a pressing game and function well as a unit, they retain their shape well....the kind of things Emery is obviously instilling on the training ground.
He's ultimately exactly the kind of manager we should have
That's why you definitely don't play a slow, plodding tempo and stand off them. The precise tactics Wenger settled on. Hard to imagine a guy with so much experience in this tournament is clueless, but he seems to be. He's gripped by fear and will always take the safest option until that decision forces him into a corner, then he over-reacts in the most ridiculous manner. We've seen him shutting down games where we've easily had the upper hand. Last night we saw him throw caution to the wind as he watched his predictably hopeless selection get outplayed all over the pitch. Wenger takes all the plaudits when the plane is on autopilot and cruising at most efficient fuel consumption. But when the autopilot is disengaged he either cuts the engines and plummets or starts careening around the skies wildly pulling on every control he can find. He's an idiot, a tired old has-been that had many chances to get out on top before he became a laughing stock. Or, he's a genius, having found a way to milk a club for two decades when anyone else would have long been shown the door. Can't figure which. I suppose it has to be the latter because could a guy blag it for 20 years without being rumbled? Or does he just give the media a bung to keep the myth rolling?Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
It should also be noted, we'd be 2 points worse off in this group and 6 behind PSG if Cavani wasn't allergic to goals. This is a bit like our second place finish in the league last year. The final position bears no resemblance to the performances that took us there and we're damn lucky we didn't have another competent team in the group.
I'm not entirely convinced it's intentional, i don't think these players have the confidence and I'm not entirely convinced the ability to pass the ball under pressure. The tactics were wrong that's for sure, i can only think that standing off PSG was because we were frightened of being cut apart by them on the counter attack which we routinely were when we showed more aggressive intent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Ramsey makes backward passes because he's clearly not confident in driving forward or finding someone with a forward pass, therefore he takes the easy option. Even Wenger was getting frustrated on the bench at some of the decision making being made from passes, which of course ultimately he is responsible for. We haven't beaten Spurs for ages for similar reasons we simply cannot deal with being closed down on the ball and i think that's as much about character and ability as it is tactics.
Would a better manager bring more confidence from this group of players?.......quite possibly but it's by no means a certainty. But of course there is only one way of knowing that.
What i would definitely take from last night, is that there was a performance on the pitch of confidence and control that i want to see from Arsenal, unfortunately it came from our opponents. Have to say love the way PSG play, purposeful attacking play....they don't give up possession easily, wonderful one touch passing combined with driving forward when required.....they should be the template for Arsenal.
I thought PSG were poor. No flicks, no tricks, a significant lack of sideways passing. They had way too much energy for me and I didn't like the way they took a chance and showed ambition when they went forward. In fact they went forward far too much and lacked the discipline to slow things down and congest the play.
It’s worth remembering we came into that PSG pretty shaky and still working out how to play with Sanchez up front. We still managed to get the ball to Sanchez and Ozil more times than we did on this occasion. Not saying we would have won because I think our first team squad needs adjusting and improvement anyway, but we stand no chance if our midfield can’t find our attackers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Ramsey can’t play as a CM and probably has no place in the squad if the only thing he can do is burst forward. Giroud is a plan B striker. It says a lot that he received the ball more from Ospina and Gibbs than any other player.
But that said, it doesn’t mean Coquelin, Ozil, Iwobi and Sanchez are free from criticism. We’ve had 3 big games and they haven’t produced. We need more from then. I won’t fault Sanchez’s effort because he never goes anonymous but really should have put us ahead with that header against Utd. You already know my views on Ozil.
PSG are good team but I wouldn't go too far with the praise. We could have had them if we kept playing at a high tempo. We were at home but played like we just shat our pants. We came out strong for the 2nd half which suggests we something was said at half time but we blew the lead.
Is it time for Theo to do a news piece about a secret meeting between the players yet? Isn't that usually due around this period?
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Oh don't get me wrong PSG are far from perfect, the fact that they annihilated us in both legs and we got away with a draw in both games exemplifies that.
One of their significant weaknesses is like with us that they have to play out from the back and that's when they are at their most vulnerable (in both games we had most success pressing them in their own third)
And of course there is an inability to finish games when they are on top.
But i think as poor as we were, they do make us poor by playing on our lack of confidence on the ball when not given time and space. And i do reiterate that their energy, confidence on the ball and ambition is something we should look to emulate.
It's clearly not just about having physical presence either, because Veratti is a midget but he was essentially dictating the tempo last night.
Bayern will finish 2nd in their group too so this is clearly a clever tactic to avoid them in the last 16.
Wenger :bow:
It's not just their style we need to emulate. We could learn a lot from most teams when it comes to defend. We have no approach. Yesterday, I could see Sanchez pressing like a madman whilst his teammates just stood back and watched. It's something seen far too often. The players defend how they want and not collectively. The manager doesn't say anything to them. It still amazes me that it took Wenger saying to the press that Theo can't defend for Theo to pull his socks up. I suspect that's the same for most of the players because don't defend as a unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Maybe other teams but not necessarily PSG, whilst they have very good individual defenders....i think as a unit they make the mistakes as we do...hold a very high line and seem to mark zonally at times (certainly in Ligue 1 anyway)Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Wenger is the root to all the problems.
He isn't a modern manager. Doesn't understand positional play. Doesn't know how to get the team to press as a unit. He is cooked. It's not the players, it's him.
He only cares about final 3rd play but we can't get it there anymore.
We struggled this season with Cazorla and without him. We have struggled this season creating chances against better sides. It's Wenger.
And Cavani is a beast of a player. Mustafi really has me scared. He reminding me of Vermaelen.
Keown described him last night as a throw back (i think he was more describing how he plays) and i thought that's a bit of the pot calling the kettle blackQuote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
Cavani misses too many chances. I wanted him here at Arsenal but if he were playing for us against PSG and missed all those chances which resulted in draws...I'd be pissed. It's slim pickings for the decent chances we're creating these days so having someone in the squad that's wasteful wouldn't go down well.
absolutely ridiculous the chances he missed both last night and in Paris, the fact that he made so many chances for himself is a testament both to his quality and to our panicky play, but yeah when clean through on goal and with the header those are blatant nailed on chances....to the point where i'd be disappointed if i missed them and i have the first touch and poise of a parkinson's sufferer with the ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Cavani converted about 25% of his chances in the two legs. Aguero, Lewandowski, Aubameyang convert at that clip.
Taking four chances a match is elite. A striker who gets 3 or 4 chances a match and converts one is better than the striker who converts 1/4 of his chances but is spread over 4 or 5 games.
I shitted on him but he beasted on Mustafi and Koscielney the two legs, especially Mustafi.
I've always wanted us to sign him but if I'm being honest with myself, I'd be pissed off with his performance. The missed header and that attempt to chip Ospina would have really got to me. It's not the first time I've seen him blow chances either. I'd be wary of signing him for a record breaking fee at his age. We should have gone for him whilst in Napoli and maybe Wenger could have improved his finishing.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
surely you jestQuote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
No, I'm serious. That's the one area I think Wenger still has something to offer and can squeeze that extra 10% out of a players performance. He did it with RVP, Cesc, Ade, Walcott, Giroud even and now he's working on Ozil. Not saying they're all clinical but I've seen improvements to the way they finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Not saying we should sign him. Just that his missed chances stand out because he got so many of them. That's what elite strikers do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Only aliens like Messi and Cronaldo convert at rates above 25%.
Cavani was great over these two matches.
Yep, Mustafi. Another one of Wumgers poor centre back signings. That list gets bigger! <_<Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84
He definitely has the movement and I'd take a striker that can get into those sorts of positions 3/4 times a game over a player like Giroud. But I'm not sure about the elite status. Conversion rates and percentages aside, I think you have to score in those crucial moments to earn that tag.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermind84