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Sorry, but I think you and most of the real "Arsenal" fans are going to be disappointed.
I mean there are 2 possible outcomes I foresee.
One, he'll announce he's signing the 2 year contract and it will be his last, as this will assist the club he loves soooo much with dealing with the "frightening" prospect of not having him around.
Two, he won't sign the contract ....... but instead demand for a one year extension, as this will assist the club he loves soooo much with dealing with the "frightening" blah blah blah
So summary, I believe we will be disappointed. Hopefully we gooners learn to get off the moral high ground and always insist an actual football loving person owns or runs this club- I'm sure Usmanov looks prettier now.
For Usmanov to be prettier, Kroenke would have to have a giant dungeon under his ranch where he rapes and tortures children
And yet, there's not a shred of proof that's not precisely what's under his ranch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
This is football we are talking about, lets not get it out of proportion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Generally as inconvenient as that is for some people the burden of proof would be showing that he does have it not him having to show he doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
And if he does he might be equivalent or just about worse than Usmanov.
Would you be ok with The Emir of Kuwait or a member of the Al Saud family owning the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by dostoy
Sounds to me like you would prefer it if Dungeongate was just quietly brushed under the carpet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Could it be much worse than it is now ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Look at Man City, they spend a lot of money in the transfer windows and their main focus is winning trophies, you cannot say that about Arsenal.
Pointless question because there's that rule that says it has to be a human owner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Well if you are ok with having Arab dictators that persecute and abuse their own citizens as rulers good for youQuote:
Originally Posted by dostoy
I'm not. Don't get me wrong I don't want Kroenke here. But I want Usmanovs grubby raping hands in charge of things even less.
Looks like we could be holding on to our the Morally Superior Cup title this season. Makes it all worth while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Jabba the Hut is already part of the club makeup as a shareholder. What difference does it make if he's owner? Should it even stop there if that's where we're going? Doesn't one of our board members have something to do with the diamond trade? Not exactly a clean business. Do we start looking into the ethics of our sponsors too?
I do think that ethics are important. I accept we aren't going to be owned or sponsored by Mother Theresa or Gandhi types, but there are limits.
I'd rather have Usmanov than a guy who has a rape basement under his ranch. Any day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall Quinn
Think for a moment about how distressing it would be to be raped by Usmanov.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.c...r_usmanov/amp/
I am not happy with him being a share holder and I don't feel the same wistful fondness that other people do for David Dein because it was him who brought him here
I'm not expecting a morally unimpeachable owner, but a man who was a criminal and his criminality now has been legitimised. A Putin apparatchik, a rapist, someone possibly involved in murder.
Usmanov is scum, and as much as I hate how things are....anything that would involve giving any more influence to a man like that would be a Faustian pact.
So if he becomes an owner, would you stop supporting the club? He's already part of the setup as a shareholder and you still support, so what difference will it make to you? What are you doing with the information besides sharing it with other posters that are maybe unaware or simply don't care?
If it's that offensive to your core, where does it stop? Our stadium is called the Emirates for goodness sakes. We could already be accepting dodgy money in some sort of form since it's supposed to be a state owned airline. Would have to do some deeper research. But where does it stop? Why just Arsenal? What about clubs with dodgy owners like City and Chelsea? Do we switch off? No we don't. Will you? I doubt it. We're all complicit and keep the bullshit spinning.
I think you're being a little harsh....Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
He was only an accused rapist ;)
City and Chelsea aren't my responsibilityQuote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
And yes in the very unlikely event Usmanov did become owner i don't think i could support the club as long as that was the case, other people can do what they like....Emirates airlines is run by the Dubai government and it is a repressive and dictatorial government and i'd rather not have it's patronage.
But for me there has to be a line drawn somewhere about how much scum you are prepared to overlook, and Usmanov using his ill gotten gains to finance our team would be the line for me.
But you still watch Arsenal knowing Usmanov is a shareholder. You still watch us knowing our Emirates ties. You're not responsible for Arsenal, City or Chelsea, but you contribute by spectator of football. You've already shown you're willing to overlook the fuckery in football simply by being spectator, so nobody really has a leg to stand on. From the corruption with Fifa, UEFA.....it's a long list. Not really for the whole moral high horse thing especially. Just sounds like points being used to beat down other posters and prop yourself up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
He's a shareholder yes, but whilst Kroenke is there he pretty much has no decision making role at the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
I'm so glad you can tell me what i think, no for as long as i've heard the name Usmanov It's been a continual link with crime, corruption and being an apparatchik for Vladimir Putin. If you find links between Fifa and UEFA and murder and torture in Uzbekistan than fine i take your point, my point is there's a line for me personally.
People can want Usmanov as owner if they want, me putting across my view that he is in fact worse than Kroenke is not beating them down. I am not treating them as ignorant, i can't assume i know any more about this man than anyone else but they are happy to make that compromise.
For me it's a compromise too far....and it's a long standing view (one that i held since Dein sold his shares to red and white holdings).
This from a poster who chastises other for mounting Wenger out campaigns and believes that not saying anything will somehow get him out. Oh the irony.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
Even looking at Kroenke, he is no paragon of decency. Brazenly moves his teams from city to city looking for the best deal despite long standing ties to their present location. Is married into the Walmart empire who are the epitome of exploitation both at home and in the countries where his suppliers use children to make their cheap goods. On top of it all he surreptitiously pays himself 3m each year for murky "consultancy fees".
Kroenke is the owner from hell, the owner that cares no more for this club than a farmer for his chickens. Their worth is purely in how may eggs they lay each day.
Apart from the fact that i have never had a go at people launching Wenger out campaigns, what i don't like is pundits telling Arsenal fans what they should be doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
I have questioned the efficacy of such campaigns, and to this day i'm still to be convinced about how effective they will be especially as the reports are saying this morning that Wenger's decision is to sign on for one year instead of two. This is not the same as saying they shouldn't be doing it.
Just not sure fans (especially ones here who most of us don't have season tickets) having a go at fans for not being as militant as others is especially helpful when we know the fan base is divided already..
And in what way am i in anyway defending Kroenke, i think he's a wretched and greedy owner.....i want shot of him....i just think Usmanov would be even worse
I doubt Usmanov owning Arsenal will change us all into Rapists and murderers. All I am saying is that smart people know where to concentrate their energies to fight the battles that they CAN win. Usmanov will no more affect the day to day affairs of fans than Kroenke does today. The only difference is that he might pressure the manager to do more than the bare minimum each season. He can only become owner if Kroenke sells his shares to him. Usmanov would gladly buy Kroenkes shares off him at a high premium but Kroenke also loathes him so little chance of that. The other chap who dearly wants to buy the club is a Nigerian Billionaire who is little different from your typical Russian oligarch in that most of his money derives from government patronage and cushy deals to the detriment of its people. My point to you really is that the real nasty people murder thousands without even knowing who they are or that they have even done it. Just by depriving them of a decent living. But we call them industrialists or entrepreneurs or some shit. E.g your Philip Green et al.
Personally i dont know why anyone would want more than £1billion in their bank account. By the time you have that much money, you have more than you and your grandkids will ever need, unless you are in the market for billion dollar yachts or islands in which case you need medical intervention.
No it's called taking a moral stand though, do i think the manager needs to be put under pressure to perform every season whoever that manager is yes of course i don't think it requires that disgusting Slug of a man to do it.
Usmanov was the one influential in all of Gazprom's dealings with Russian satellite states which including squeezing people financially and in fact threatening to cut off the gas supply if government's didn't pay their extortion rates.
He is one of the key beneficiaries and bulldogs for Putin's mafia state.
Plus it's totally academic anyway, Kroenke does not give up the club's he acquires they are permanent ornaments for his portfolio......he is the sporting equivalent of a slum landlord.
Like i say, if you think we will be better off with that cancer in control that's your view...just don't expect me to share it.
You misunderstand me. I am not advocating Usmanov. Im just saying that he is an extant reality and the other options are not pleasant either. . In an ideal world, Kroenke would relinquish ownership of Arsenal to his son Josh and stop taking Wengers calls. Maybe he, being of a different generation might get what football means here. Heres hoping anyway.
I'm not telling you what to think, just letting you know how it comes across and I think it's hypocritical. Fact is we all contribute to this as spectators. We love the sport but it comes with some serious baggage that we all often ignore. Wasn't there a report about over hundreds or thousands dying in order to build the Qatar stadiums on time for the 2022 World Cup? Weren't the people of Brazil robbed of public funds just to host the World Cup? But will anyone boycott watching the World Cup? I'm sure FIFA and UEFA have more dodgy dealings than reported. Filth all around in football. If you're drawing a line, great, but it's nothing to really get on your high horse about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Look deeply into what's going in football and what it supports, it's pretty filthy. I don't like it but have to separate the business from the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
Again i've also been clear that Russia and Qatar should both be stripped of the world cup hosting rightsQuote:
Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur
Unless i actively stop paying a licence fee it doesn't matter whether i watch those tournaments or not.
What i'm saying is that there is a line in having an owner like Usmanov and whataboutery won't change that for me, the club will have neither my patronage or support if that man becomes owner.....but as i've said the matter is incredibly academic anyway because he won't.
If Usmanov is the worst person youve ever heard of. You need to broaden your worldview.
Again not saying he is, but i wouldn't want the people even worse than him involved with Arsenal eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
It's a bit like saying who can i trust to babysit my kids more, Ian Watkins or Sidney Cooke....well Sidney will be ok he can't run as fast as he used to
Truth. I was going to point out the same thing myself but can't get into a big debate today because I have to undersell my labour in a globalised, rigged market and then have a whole bunch of "respectable" people skim from the proceeds in the hope I have something left to feed my family. Like the vast majority, I have to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
There's no fundamental difference between Kroenke and Usmanov, all that differs is the distance they place between themselves and the actions others carry out on their behalf. Usmanov likes to make the phone calls himself. Kroenke lets the government and its military get on with things without his direct instruction. The end result is the same, vast and unearned wealth transferred from the many to the few. Is Usmanov the more honest thug in this respect? Probably. Are either of them familiar with morality? Hardly.
The game is in a shit state because these vile individuals like these are involved at all. HCZ would be the first to tell you this is the way it will always be because people are fundamentally bad. The logical conclusion therefore is nobody should be allowed to own football clubs because everybody will be corrupted as a result. But if we must have owners and we accept the dark nature of mankind then there's little point discriminating between individual examples of that darkness.
That said, I want Kroenke out, not Usmanov in. Which is not very realistic because Kroenke is going nowhere and, even if he did, we'd have another scumbag slide right in. Maybe he'd part with some of his money, inflating and ruining the game further. Allowing us to "compete" by short-cutting our way back into the top flight. Others have done it, why not us? Because each time this happens more of the game is lost. When eventually every clubs is obliged to have one of these bastards pumping cash in then we'll have 20 odd clubs left and corruption on a scale never seen before in football (since Graham Poll reffed a Utd game at least).
Oh wait, the European Super League.
Football's dying.
That question, why would you need more than a billion in the bank? The answer, to protect yourself from the other billionaires you fucked over getting to the "top". Money starts out as debt (that's for you and I), then it becomes wealth when you find a way to control that debt, finally it becomes power. When you have power then it takes a lot of influence to hold onto it. That's why these guys can never have enough. It's not about buying yachts, it's about owning people.
Usmanov already is an owner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
By that logic you could suggest some of the fan groups that still own a nominal amount of shares are ownersQuote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Kroenke is the majority shareholder and the de facto owner.
Well by that fact, I do suggest all of the fan groups that still own a nominal amount of shares are owners. They are. Not owners with influence, but owners nonetheless. So make no mistake, Arsenal is already a possession of Usmanov. It is Usmanov's club you are associated with, as well as Kroenke's and the rest of them who can afford that juicy and ever rising share price. You already keep bad company just by associating yourself with the club. We all do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
But what are we going to do? It's not just football, it's everything. And, contrary to your belief that all people are bad, it is a few bad apples that have soured a species. The few who own everything including all the rest of us. I saw it expressed well the other day by a clumsy DARPA scientist who was naive enough to say too much. This is an economic species, not a social one.
The beauty in all of this, the shining little LED in the pitch darkness of our misery is Leicester. Forget Ranieri losing his way this season. Leicester have rekindled all hope is football fans. Shown that money is not the be and end all of the pantheon of football. it is about a group of 11-18 players who are focused, well coached, physical and determined. In an ideal world people like Wenger would take an oath of silence until they next win a title. Every big team was put to shame by them. Wengers position was untenable right from the end of last season.
What you say about the human condition is likely true. Take a 9 month old child. Even they will refuse to share toys with another kid who has none. I can imagine a baby Letters holding on to his 5 rattles wailing No!, No!, No!, as he is encouraged to relinquish just 1. People need to learn decency. It doesnt always come natural.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Agree on Wenger obviously. All his excuses are gone now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
But the other thing you can say about Leicester's players is they have quickly transformed themselves from the bearers of football's fairy tale into the same old cynical shite that we're used to. Poor tactics, poor organisation, lack of motivation can all be laid at the manager's doorstep. But the players refusing to play for the manager or anything less than 100% effort is unacceptable. We're rapidly getting to the point where the players run the team, not the manager. We've seen this a few times now, recently. I think we may have seen it again with our lot yesterday.
The bare faced cheek of it to say he's made his decision and we will know soon, when it's clearly torn the fans and team apart. He's doing what's best for himself and not the club, unfortunately that's why he's lost so much respect from the fans.
The guy needs to go now.
Not at the end of the season. Now.