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When was the last time Le Prof fielded the same eleven in consecutive matches?
2006?
Actually thought we might get something tonight :lol:
Me :pal:
Meh. Whatever. Doesn't make much difference any more. Roll on next season.
It's just embarrassing.
Still not a single sodding away point.
The manager deserves sacking.
WENGER OUT!
13 defeats. Over a third of our games lost.
7 away defeats on the spin.
51 goals conceded.
The new manager has a big task in lifting this loser mentality Wenger is leaving us with.
Disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
When Fergie left Moyes contrived to take the Champions down to 7th place, they lost 12 games and got 25 fewer points than they had the previous season.
The manager makes a big difference and can do so very quickly. Get the right manager in and it'll make a big difference next year.
Well that’s the hope, that the new guy can have a positive effect off the bat.
Just how much damage Wenger has done will be seen in time. United are only now beginning to move on from the lull under Moyes and Van Gaal.
So predictable at the end of last season, where this guy would take us. Thank fuckety fuck he didn't get to see out his contract because one more year and he could have done exponential damage.
I think the difference is them winning the title in Fergie's last season was ridiculous with that squad, they massively over-performed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
We are massively under-performing with our squad so I don't think it'll take as much to have a positive impact if we get the right manager.
We're like the perfect team for teams that need confidence to play against.
Leicester just thrashed by both Palace & Hammers, players already on their holidays and with murmurings of discontent towards the manager ..... not a problem you've got Arsenal where you can sort things out. :doh:
Did our new defender deserve his red?
Close call. Clear foul but Holding may have had it covered as the last man. We’re speculating though, Iheanacho is quick and would have been away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Static
Sloppy from the Greek kid but he’ll learn. I can say that confidently now knowing he won’t be coached by you know who.
Can anyone explain our away form in comparison to home form?
Not about Wenger, just tactically, mentality-wise?
I agree with you :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
There is no one reason (unless you badge it all up under “Wenger”).Quote:
Originally Posted by A Gunner
However, it has been said countless times that we set ourselves up to play the same way every game, no matter the opposition.
Logic dictates that a team coming to to The Emirates will be naturally more protective and will sit back a little more. Most of our concessions at home often come from a counter attack where we lose the ball with players committed and no defensive shape...
When our opposition is on their home turf, they’re naturally more positive, being the home sides perogative. If more teams visiting us (not just the big boys) showed more adventure, they might learn to inflict the same sort of damage at our place....which was the worry sign, because that was the next step in our fall frome grace IMO.
I wasn’t surprised we lost and I suspect we will keep our 100% losing record with a defeat at Huddersfield at the weekend.
The new manager really has his work cut out repairing or should I say instilling a “Winning is everything” mentality into these bunch of losers.
Hopefully we can at least pub something at Huddersfield. This pitiful record needs to do one so we and the new manager can start with a clean slate next season. Don’t want this remnant of Wenger hanging over us all summer.
For there to be under-performance, there first has to be some kind of good performance to begin with no? I'd like to know on what evidence are we under-performing? It can't be the league because we've finished 5th and 6th now, with this season in particular breaking all sorts of records for being shit. We choked in the League Cup final (why couldn't we raise it again like we did for Chelsea last year?), we froze when presented with a huge opportunity to reach the EL final and we've been soundly beaten by all of the teams above us bar Chelsea who we drew twice with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Sure we have some decent players who would benefit from a better coach but we haven't been anywhere near the title for a long time and the league performance has got progressively worse. The cup win last year was a minor miracle but if anything that probably suggests we over-performed on the day because everything either side of that final has been atrocious. It was a huge anomaly of a victory.
We probably should be doing better but I think the new manager has a big task on because I don't think this squad has shown enough to suggest it can do better, there have been far more troughs than there have peaks. There are a lot of run of the mill players in this squad who should count themselves lucky to be playing for a club as big as Arsenal.
Yes. Agreed. Wenger's next trick would be to plunge us into a relegation battle, as improbable as that sounds. Almost as improbable as us losing every single away game in 2018 so far. Every team would be looking at this tail end of the season and salivating at the thought of getting their teeth into us, home or away. The sad truth is easy to see. When teams give us undue credit and respect, which happens when they visit the Emirates, and they allow us to play our silly Wengerball then we win. But if they put even a hint of pressure on us, we fold.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
It's not that the players are terrible cowards or powderpuff weaklings. It's the utter nonsense Wenger is demanding of them. A thousand passes. No shots. Nobody in the box when the cross comes in. No defending. Empty flanks where opponents roam free. The extra sideways pass. The extra touch in the box. A nightmarishly pointless vision of football that literally ends up pointless should our intricate insanity be disrupted in even the slightest manner.
Wenger's teams play good football. If they are allowed to. To this day the change from fast, powerful, direct and technical football to pitter patter football by a thousand passes is killing us. Wenger's biggest and most inexplicable mistake of all. Which is why the mad discrepancy between our home and away form can't possibly be explained without talking about Wenger. It's all about him. Arsene FC.
90 more minutes and that ends. It's a miracle.
The new manager has to first train the players to unlearn everything Wenger "taught" them. Some players will survive the process, others won't. But just a few simple lessons might transform the team, like kicking the ball up the other end of the pitch when defending. Or the striker running into the box when we are attacking down the flanks. The stuff all normal teams do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Our home form, basically. It's good enough to challenge, you don't get a home record like that unless you're any good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
I don't think I've ever known a season where the difference between home and away form is this marked. Sort out the away form - and we've never had an away season quite this bad before so we're perfectly capable of doing that - and we should be in and around the top 4.
I don't think we'll be challenging for the title next year but for a top 4 spot, definitely.
We only failed to finish in the top 4 last year by a couple of points, this year has been a car crash but I believe they're capable of better.
The whole premise of #WengerOut is that with this squad we should be doing much better than we are.
At home we've beaten:
Leicester
Bournemouth
WBA
Brighton
Swansea
Spuds (only opponent of note)
Huddersfield
Newcastle
Crystal Palace
Everton
Watford
Stoke
Southampton
West Ham
Burnley
All bar one of the key names are missing and many of these teams beat us when we visited their patch.
The record this season is appalling.
You understand that everyone plays the same teams, right?
Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
That list of results demonstrates pretty clearly how we are doing against our new rivals compared to our old rivals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Whatever. If we had a similar set of results away from home we'd be in the top 4. You get the same number of points for beating any of the sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall Quinn
IF you're pushing for the title then these 6 pointers become important, right now let's focus on getting back in the top 4, our home form is more than good enough to, our away form is pretty much relegation form.
Sort out that discrepancy and we'll start competing again.
If we won more games than City we probably would be top. We just need to sort out that discrepancyQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I do agree that this squad is capable of more and we should be higher up the table.
However, we also need to change 2-4 players to help maintain a consistent run and hopefully, a new manager will bring a huge change in mentality, tactics and work ethic.
Letters is right to some extent as most of the players we have, are better than this seasons results would have us all believing.
Not only that, if we focused more on winning than losing, we'd be higher in the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall Quinn
Interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
*sigh*Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall Quinn
Think I'll leave WUM and WUMer to it :good:
So many years of making the bare minimum the pinnacle of our ambition. So let's do the same thing and see if we get a different result.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
What makes you assume the away form is the anomaly, rather than the home form?
We are fucking fortunate Wenger didn't get the extra year.
I've noticed, everyone is a WUM except you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Interesting. OK, that's a fairly good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
I guess it's the quality of our squad. I think we're better than our away form suggests.
Well, we definitely are. Our away form is pretty much relegation form, we're clearly not a squad which should be anywhere near the relegation zone.
And in the last two seasons our away form has been significantly better than this year.
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/...une-2017/away/
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/...une-2016/away/
Where our home form has been consistently good in other years:
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/...une-2017/home/
https://www.11v11.com/league-tables/...une-2016/home/
So our home form is a bit better than usual, but there's not a huge gap. Our away form has dropped off a cliff this year, so I see that as the anomaly.
Home and away point split over the last 3 seasons:
40 - 31
45 - 30
47 - 13
It's clearly the 13 which is the significant difference from other seasons.
(Careful, this could just develop into a sensible conversation)
If we had a similar set of results at home as we did away. Where would that leave us?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
And had Wenger stayed on, what would be more likely? Our away form improving to match our home form and the resulting glory?
Or would it likely go the other way?
The 13 points is anomalous in reference to prior years. But it's future years we are speculating about. Certainly, we have a squad that should be doing much better than this. But they aren't. 7 away losses in a row is almost unbelievable. It represents a complete collapse on the road. Complete. And the manger has done nothing notable to turn the tide. He's pretty much stuck to the same policy of randomly rotating the line-up, playing players out of position, the slow tempo possession game and the catastrophically flawed zonal defensive "system" that has failed like clockwork. We already have a decent theory on why there might be such a divergence in results home and away. On the road our opponents come after us. At home they show us too much respect, probably because they remember what sort of team we used to be rather than see us for what we are now. Weak. With a negative mentality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I've said it in the past and the evidence strongly favours the idea we win when the opposition suits us. When they mass behind the ball and let us tip and tap it around we generally find a way through against the weaker defences. But when the opposition presses or plays an effective counter attacking game we are almost sure to lose.
The question is, having seen this awful away form and given a summer to analyse the games (if so inclined) what's to say most of the managers in the PL would not reach the easy conclusion it is better to pressure us rather than let us play - home or away?
It's all moot anyway because Wenger is leaving. But, if he was staying and I had to bet, I'd put money on our home form getting worse with the away form improving (because it can't possibly get worse). I'd predict an 8th, 9th maybe 10th place finish with a handful of wins both home and away against the weaker teams. That seems more realistic than suggesting we'd hold up the home form and then significantly improve the away form too. And it all fits in with the evidence of steady decline.
2nd, which is a damn site better than where we are now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall Quinn
As I've said above I think it's our away form this year which is the real outlier.Quote:
And had Wenger stayed on, what would be more likely? Our away form improving to match our home form and the resulting glory?
Or would it likely go the other way?
Our home form this year is actually better than the last 2 years, our away form is a complete car crash and by a distance the worst we've ever done under Wenger.
I doubt that would be repeated. So I think had he stayed we'd probably be less bad away from home next year, perhaps not quite as good at home and overall we wouldn't be title contenders.
But I've long since been in the Wenger Out camp, I think the Wenger In camp is pretty much one tent with Ty in it these days.
I'm hoping a new manager will push us in the right direction, we've got the squad to compete much better than we have been.
Huddersfield will easily do us, they 've drawn against Citeh and Chelski away in their last two gamesQuote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Arsenal at their ground will be a walk in the park for them
Wenger really couldn't be leaving soon enough
I think Huddersfield will be fucked from those two games. They worked unbelievably hard in both ties with little of the ball and having to cover a lot of ground, chasing, organising and defending.
Both of their points were achieved through heart and hard work. They then cancelled their flight and went back by coach so they could drink beer.
Lots and lots of beer.