How would you feel?
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How would you feel?
with cesc, the same as last season though my frustrations might come around quicker if he fails to deliever on the pitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping
nasri can fuck off, it will be the same with ade in his final season
Do you think we should believe the press though?Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
tbh yes. with cesc, we all know he wants to go to barca, if he produces it on the pitch, then he will have all our backing, though if he doesnt, he will find the fans will turn quicker because of the antics this summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping
nasri - i think we can believe, he hasnt come out either and denied and some quotes attributed to him in interviews seems to imply he wants to go. he can fuck off for all i care
While they play for Arsenal I will support them as players. If either produces the level of play that we have seen on occasions, then great. However, I suspect that we will be carrying to whiny spoilt brats. If that is the case, they should be put down into the reserves squad.
I'm torn. I believe in no smoke without fire but we all sympathise with players losing the faith....I just wonder what it says if they are still playing for us next season...under sufferance or not?Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Gooner
i think we all know what the deal with cesc is so his reception will be fine unless he does an ade which i really dont think he would.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping
nasri though will have to win over the fans as the tide has turned against him whether he goes or stays.
I'm not so sure. I reckon Fabregas is more likely to stay than Nasri. And I think that Gooners will feel relieved if Nasri stays...Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
The question I have is whether either one has truly "lost faith". I am a cynic in this case and believe that a lot is both financial and agent/adviser driven.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping
If Fabregas' desire to play for Barcelona was truly emotional homesickness based, he would put in a transfer request and put an end to our misery. No one would begrudge him the desire and many would applaud his conviction. As he has not put in the request which would cost him 2 or 3 million - he loses the signing fee that is payable to him - suggests that this is driven by money. He knows that he will spend more time on the bench than starting for the next 3 or 3 years. It is easy money for him.
With regard to Nasri, he has just come off a a career half-season. I suspect that his advisers have said that Fabregas is going and that he is going to have to carry the team during a very tough transition season. He is looking to cash in on the "reputation" before the possible Arsenal demise drags his value down.
I can only speak for myself but this fan is of the opinion that Fabregas has as much if not more repair work to do than Nasri. If nothing else, he is the club captain.Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
i disagree purely because we all know cesc will go back to barca, if it wasnt for barca being cunts of the highest order he would have gone now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Gooner
nasri has more because he had a good three months of all his time here yet thinks he is the best, fans need to see players give their all for the season, not demand more money or hold us to ransom. nasri is, cesc isnt
It's great news if they stay. The club and Wenger would have shown some backbone and we'd keep two of our best players.
With Nasri, I'd only be happy if he signed a new contract and stayed. No running your contract down type of bollocks.
Would be ecstatic because they're both genuine / potentially world class players and there's no way we're going to replace them with similar quality.
As for attitudes, they can easily be fixed, the problem is Wenger won't make the right moves to fix them.
what would people feel if wenger said to nasri, sign a new contract with your wages increased for one season, then we will sell you. he gets his money, we get his feeQuote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
That's what I've been saying from the start. Give him his wages and tell him he has to earn every penny or he's out. I'd be okay with that as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
firstly i'd love to keep them both as they are both very good players.Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
for the scenario above, it would never ever happen, as he wouldn't risk being tied into a contract and then being told next season 'you're going nowhere'. all he has to do is look at the cesc or modric situation. if we can get a good season out of nas then lose him for nowt, i wouldn't be too bothered.
A very interesting post, TG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Gooner
I agree. I think that we can safely say that both situations are principally agent driven. I do think that there might be a kernel of truth somewhere re cesc's 'homesickness'. But he was ambivalent about his 'dream' when he came to Arsenal, and has undoubtedly benefitted from that decision. I think the 'emotional' issue is far more likely to be an understandable desire to be in the team touted as the best ever - that would exist whether that team was Real Madrid; Bayern Munich or Porto.
But my theory is that the PR/agency aspect for Fabregas is dressing this desire up as a desire to return to his hometown - because that sounds less disloyal. Can we blame the player? Well I don't share your antipathy. The saga has been protracted, yes. But is this down to Fabregas - or is it down to a Barcelona management who have made it thus by simply failing to make an offer we can't refuse? I'd say the latter. And I'd say that the saving grace for Fabregas is that at least he has given us many years of loyal service. That is not a total excuse - after all he owes much to the club. But set against the modern standard set by the likes of Rooney; Tevez; Robinho - for me Cesc is not the worst of offenders.
IMO Nasri is a different matter. I agree with your analysis of what is driving his behaviour - and on the one hand its understandable that he sees this as his shot at the big time. As Adebayor; Flamini and Hleb did before him. But what I don't like about Nasri is that it is more calculated and opportunist even than his predecessors. He refused to negotiate a contract extension last Summer - when he had not exactly set the world alight - and is looking to hold the club to ransom this Summer - on the back of just 4 months' performances that justify the kind of money he wants. At least Adebayor gave us a more or less a season. Nasri's move suggests strongly that he only ever came to us as a stepping stone, or to raise his profile - and to exploit the very first occasion on which he showed some form. So for me he is at the cutting edge of the modern football mercenary movement - yet unlike his fellow ground breaker, Rooney, he doesn't even have the 'decency' to give the club anything before baring his teeth. He is the difference between a woman that you meet in a bar, buy champagne all night and then take home for great sex, and a 3 minute lap dance.
Which is why, if he stays, fans might feel 'relieved' that we have held on to him - but he will never IMO be regarded with any fondness by the fans. And I don't think he gives a damn, either.
No problem with Fabregas, lot of respect for him and he's a world class player. Nasri is a greedy she-male who can FOAD, no offence likeQuote:
Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping
I've been harsh with Nasri in the past, he is a bit overrated and hides like a little bitch during key moments but I'll say this in his defence. When he first joined, maybe Wenger promised silverware and said we're a club going somewhere. A club with ambition that is looking develop world class talent and build a powerhouse team that will dominate Europe. When he first signed, we must have made out that this was the place to be.
We haven't won anything and over the last two seasons we've buckled when coming close to winning something. Second, Nasri isn't a winger and prefers playing in the middle. Wenger insists on playing on the flanks where he isn't that effective and that must also be pissing him off.
There are two sides to every story and the greedy mercenary type doesn't add up with his past record at Marseille or his interviews. In real life, I'd never stay with a company that pays low wages, has me working in a department that doesn't suite my skills and has no ambition to expand or evolve as a business, and last but not least, a place where the costumer's complain about how the companies run and even your colleagues are complaining about the place and there is a higher than average staff turnover rate. Why would I want to stay with such a company and commit another 4 years of my life to a lost cause?
I've got a feeling this will happen. I think this is what happened last season with Cesc and until Barca meet our valuation he will have to stay here.Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
Hopefully if Nasri signs his new deal and has a storming season we can sell him for a small fortune next summer, that would be the best scenario for all involved.
I dont really give a shit either way tbh.
If they stay nothing will change, we'll play the same way - tippy tappy bollox - and the season will follow the same pattern as every other one for the last few years.
If they go they wont be adequately replaced with real quality, in effect we may even do worse than the last few years.
Either way, wenger should be pouring his effort or 'fight' into buying some new players. That would certainly make these two guys think about what the really want to do.
They want to see the club match their ambition, bring in a couple of PL CB's, a winger and a good striker - show the team that the club want to be back among the top tier because despite what wenger thinks, we arent there anymore.
I'd prefer it if they both left tbh, because if neither transfer goes through, I think we'll be left with two unhappy players, and while it's possible both will be professional and try their best for Arsenal, the more likely scenario is that both Cesc and Nasri continue to perform like they did in the second half of last season, with added moodiness. We can't afford to keep players like that, which is why I hope we flog both of them this summer and get a couple of top quality, motivated attacking midfielders in.
Id have respect for AW again that way he could make sure that we get maxium for Nasri. id would not mind if he did that this season but he still got sold tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
As for them staying if they behaved professional for us and Cesc told Pique to STFU if get behind them even more
I have to reciprocate: Good post and points. I have to say that I might have come across with more antipathy than intended. I do agree that Fabregas does have a desire to return to Barcelona because it is his home and the club is the best in the world. I just wish he had been more up front about things and that he had publicly told his "friends" at Barcelona to keep quiet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping
In reality, I am agnostic to both of them and apathetic to the situation.
I'd be very happy and relieved because in order for them to stay it would imply something has to happen soon that gives a clear indication we are serious about competing next year. Right now, as the weeks wind down, we seem far more concerned about weakening the team in return for cash that is either going to be spunked on dross like Downing or maybe even retained by an anti-football board that has been killing us year on year since 2005.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping
No. We should believe Wenger's actions though. So far nobody of note (and I include Gervinho) has been signed. We desperately needed signings and none have arrived. We also needed to get rid of some of the deadwood, yet they are all gearing up for the pre-season tour. Nothing is changing at the club when we needed change. There's still time but Wenger's words aren't encouraging. The only positive I can take from what's going on at the moment is Wenger will surely be sacked next year if he once again refuses to fix the problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping
Or Nasri has been given a huge pay rise and Barcelona have once again shown that they're not that bothered about Fabregas by bidding no more than 65p and a pack of Seabrook crisps for him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn
Possibly, but keeping two of our key players rather than losing them has got to be a good thing. If they want to bitch and whine or under-perform then drop them, fine them, start treating them like employees who are paid to do a job rather than favoured children who can do no wrong. They'll get the message soon enough. Their greed could be turned against them and utilised.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Splinter
TBH Id say goodbye to Cesc easier than Nasri
when the stories started to appear I thought that Nas could step into Cesc role and provide the creative spark
those thoughts soured when I started hearing the reasoning behind Nasri wanting out or his demands to stay........that of course was me taking the papers on their word, which in hindsight is a dangerous thing to do
my worry is that they stay and are moody doing so, I hear the call to bench/fine such actions but that may be easier said than done.....if we havent got the quality to replace them with
so part of me wishes to cash in and build again but another part of me worries about the time we have left and the inactivity we have shown in the transfer market so far
taking Nas to Asia is right, he is still our player and it makes me think that of the two he is the most likely to stay.......Cesc not going and I havent heard any reason (please enlighten me) shows me that some of the talk of an immediate transfer could be true
if one or both go of course we satnd to lose but I have to have belief that there is a plan for this happening as Wenger (no matter what people call him) cannot seriously think we stand a chance of standing our ground without quality replacements
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Gooner
He'd only have to put in one good performance, score a goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie the optimist
Fans are fickle idiots.
How long have you been a fan?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)
Not long. I used to support Liverpool but they got crap. I switched to Arsenal so I could still wear my red tops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coney
Go Arsenal :scarf:
Don't really care about Cesc.
Nasri on the other hand, if he starts the new season with out a new contract, wenger has officially lost it.
How could he have been more up front about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto Gooner
If he had told his friends to STFU and they didn't listen, are you going to blame him for it?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14088970.stm
BBC Sport, something about Nasri staying. Whooo.
Don't believe the hype. When the press asked about his contract, Wenger said that it's a different matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Toffee
Fixed it for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters (TPFKA WWTL@WHL)
Dont mind Nasri staying.
Cesc can fuck off.
Yeah it seems that Wenger has convinced Nasri to stay at least for this season or the short term, i'm not confident that he'll be able to talk him round to sign a new contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Nasri has the club by the balls, wouldn't he be free to talk to other clubs in January as he'll be in the last 6 months of his contract?
It would be sickening to lose Nasri on a free to one of our rivals...really sickening.