Love a good four goal margin defeat at Liverpool we do.
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Love a good four goal margin defeat at Liverpool we do.
The first 13 minutes were the best.
Our comedy defending doesn’t work well against good teams. Who knew?
The equaliser really needs comedy sound FX.
Mod Party. :scarf:
Is there a cure for what we got?
Any lack of movement in the transfer window and during the summer will show you what this club are about.
You can’t wag a finger at Emery when he’s working with the shite that Wenger lined up at the back. He needs time to build his own side, if he is allowed to do so. As Arsenal fans we need to be careful of falling into the manager merry-go-round.
This was expected. And you can’t moan when you know what’s coming.
Liverpool are a very good side, who not so long ago (under Klopp) looked in the same shape as us....
Shit result mind
We were lied to when we moved to the Emirates.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
We will NEVER compete with the top four financially.
The board are wankers who do not have the fans and clubs best interest at heart.
RIP AFC.
In addition, your comment about Emery working with Wengers defenders, didn't Emery bring in Leno, Sokratis and Lichsteiner? Piss poor additions.Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
I dunno. Did he? I thought they were pretty much in before he arrived? Leno possibly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
Agree about the board but why can’t we compete financially?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
We have the stadium, the fanbase and the status to compete.
Obviously we can’t do much about teams propped up by billionaires.
Moving stadium was the only option in terms of competing.
In my mind Guendouzi is the only one that was more specifically his signing. Even with how good Sokratis and Torreira have been....it hasn't been enough.
I do wonder what Emery said to the board when they laid out their expectations including finishing top 4. Yes okay no worries? Or you're having a fuhking laugh....top 4 with this squad!??
We are such a comedy side when it comes to defending. The first and second goals were so bad and embarrassing I wanted to cry. Then we give away two silly pels and make it even worse. If you add the terrible defending at OT, last week against the scum and Southampton you see that we are really really shit at defending.
Apart from the silly goals I thought out CM were too negative with the ball and didn't show any bravery on the ball. Torreira trying to pass it back cost us the second goal. He is usually a forward passer of the ball but today he was swept aside.
Lichsteiner,Leno, Sokratis, Guendozi and Torriera were all signed under the Emery era with him taking pictures and saying he wanted them at the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
If we give him praise for Torriera it's only fair he cops the blame for the other poor excuses for top players.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
RIP :lol: Get a grip of yourself man. No board in the world has the fans or clubs best interest at heart. They are businesses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
Liverpool haven’t got to where they are through spending money like City or Chelsea. It was clever selling and reinvestment. Utd have spent hundreds of millions and haven’t got close to winning the league in years. How have Tottenham improved? Chelsea don’t even spend like they used to.
Defence and midfield need an overhaul. Time to get smart with purchases and reselling, along with good management.
Sorry i thought we all thought Sokratis was a good signing...? Which he is btw - haven't seen today's (mis)match but even if he played a part he's generally been very good. Let's not fall into the gutter press habit of changing facts to suit the headline, eh...Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
We are not changing facts brother, our defence is like a sieve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
I'm not going to go through a needless back & forth on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by SMatthews
The best I was able to bring up was transfer spending from 92-2017:
1.Chelsea- £1.7b
2.Man City £1.45b
3 Man U £1.3b
4 Liverpool £1.29b
5 Spuds £1.06b
6 Arsenal £833m
7 Newcastle £769m
8 Everton £584m
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...sportgalleries
Inflation is not included, as that would have probably put us a few more spots down- definitely below the Toon.
The point is, with the way we've been "investing" in our team we deserve to be where we are- and so do Liverpool with the way they've been investing in theirs even without mega selloffs.
Sokratis is bog standard, I've never rated him and never will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Is he better than Mustafi? Yeah, but that's nothing to be proud of if you call yourself a professional footballer.
What has 1992 got to do with 2018? :lol: if you don’t want a back and forth (neither do I about meaningless net spending etc), then at least post up something worthwhile to make a point.
Do you really need to be spoon fed on everything?Quote:
Originally Posted by SMatthews
You said:
That was nonsense and brings back the silly arguments we use to have on this board ( 04- 12) where we would have a back and forth on whether spending on the team or club creates value for shareholders. I'm not going to google deloitte for you but you'll notice that minnows like Citeh, Chelsea and the Spuds forced themselves into the top 10 richest clubs in the world by MARKET VALUE by doing just that.Quote:
No board in the world has the fans or clubs best interest at heart. They are businesses.
So please, after the figures I've just shown you, kindly explain how they have "sold/re-invested" more cleverly than everyone else? Or how have they not been spending money like City or Chelsea? They are the 3rd highest spenders in the period I've shown you and have exactly how many Titles to boast about in that 26 year period?Quote:
Liverpool haven’t got to where they are through spending money like City or Chelsea. It was clever selling and reinvestment.
Or is your argument that they have been clever and cautious in reinvesting money made from transfers recently- lets see.
In 17/18, after and even before the Coutinho transfer, Liverpool were spending big on players. At the end of the season they received from the sale of Coutinho and all other players £161m after having spent £151m (remember Coutinho transfer was in Jan this year). Net profit 10m.
However, this season they made £15m on transfers but "cautious" Pool still spent £160m on new players. Net Loss 145 million. So what exactly is unChelselike or unCitehlike about this level of spending?
They've spent more than anyone this season and are on course to win the title. Guess who spent the most last season? Citeh did by a mile (£285m) and won the league. Man U spent £185m (the 2nd highest amount) and came 2nd.
Now my argument is not that spending will guarantee you the Title, unless Leicester would have never won it the year they did. What I am saying though is without a doubt it helps a lot and specifically in this argument it hurts no one, shareholders or fans , and thats because big teams still gain value even without major trophies but not without the entertainment that world class players provide- as this is all showbiz or do we really need Vince Mcmahon to explain this to us.
Our Defence is a complete mess, no better than last season, arguably worse. We literally cannot keep a clean sheet home or away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
TBH, given the definite outs we have and the uncertainty surrounding the likes of Ozil, Kos etc, we have a massive job to do rebuilding this squad. Sven, Raul & Emery are really going to need to earn their corn to rebuild the squad, lots of work to do.
A predictable trouncing. Anyone who thought we’d offer up some resistance were deluding themselves.
We cannot defend, plain and simple. Stood absolutely no chance against a team who are flying and likely to win the league.
It’s embarrasing how much work Emery has to do.
And just to buttress the point on how if the Fan's expectations are met it is almost always a good thing for the shareholders- I just remembered Mourinho's sacking and what happened the next day to Man U's share price.
https://talksport.com/football/46258...s-share-price/
To summarize for those who can't be bothered to read- before Jose got the sack, some "gurus" complained that Man U could not afford to sack him as they'd have to pay £24m as his severance- so to them it wasn't the financially smart thing to do as how would Man U make this money back? Where would they find it?
Oh well, the Markets responded the very next day (without Solskjaer kicking a ball) as the Glazers became richer by a £120 million as investors loved the sacking.
This game is about entertainment, and anything that is pissing off the fans and causing empty stadiums will affect the owners. Simple.
There you go. Not sure what all that other nonsense was about. You’re stuck in this outdated net spend argument. Player amortisation is the reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
Saw this coming a mile off, our defence and midfield are woeful.
The result was obvious, didn’t expect anything less.
The manner of deafest however, is where the problem lies. A pathetic embarrassment of professional football.
And Emery, for all his tactical nous, fucked up with the initial team selection and subs last night. Horrifically in fact.
Emery needs better players but also has to take some measure of responsibility for the ease at which our defence is bypassed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
He definitely needs more of his own players to effectively implement whatever system it is he wants, but even with what we’ve got we shouldn’t be this bad.
I don’t want to come down like a ton of bricks on him because he’s at the start of the rebuilding process, but some of what we’re seeing is unnacceptable by any standards.
We saw under Wenger how scarring these kind of defeats can be. He has to get a grip on things at the back before it gets any worse.
:gp:Quote:
Originally Posted by SMatthews
Totally agree.
Shocker of a performance today, defence is an absolute disgrace to be honest, I'd get rid of the lot and start again, they're just not good enough, the way we score and then concede a minute or two later is embarrassing. We played a quality side today and whilst we've got away with mistakes like this earlier on in the season against inferior sides, against top sides you don't.
As for the decisions, we gave away two penalties which even if they were harsh we shouldn't have given away (Sokratis was poor today) and Xhaka should have been red carded in which case it could have been even worse.
Emery has inherited an average squad and has a lot of work to do, he's done the best with what he's got but in truth he really needs some money to rebuild this team, though I doubt he'll get any.
Fact is though, you can't work with players that just aren't good enough and we have quite a few of those, he needs better players.
Emery has done as well as he could, he's has made mistakes as well but overall he's done a decent job, there's the odd decision in there like making Ramsey captain today (what was that about), but in truth he wasn't given enough money in the summer and was left with a terrible defence and midfield which he couldn't fix in on transfer window with only 60-70 million to spend.
Make no mistakes this is all down to the fact we allowed this club to go down the pan by indulging a guy who didn't have a clue for years.
I agree with most of what you say except the question of how bad our players are. Correct me if I am wrong, but who else has Pool tanked 5-1 this season. Mustafi and co are not excellent but these are players who could do a good job at Palace, Cardiff, Everton etc and not fall into a discombobulated shambles anytime they are under pressure. Our players remind me of the cartoon characters who when they hear fire run helter skelter, hands in the air until they bump into each other and knock each other out. We simply fall to pieces anytime a dangerous player runs into our box. It has been so since 2006 thereabouts. Its as if Boro Primorac and co never left. I swear if our players were pilots they would run out of the cockpit at the first sign of an alarm and ask the passengers for help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
When will we develop an equanimity as a team even under pressure. Not one where our defenders belt the ball in panic against each other or straight to opposition players. I rarely see other teams in any league panic collectively the way we do. If its something that has been left behind by Wengers non ability to train defence, then its like a virus that affects new players if they come in singles. No matter what Emery may be telling them to do, they revert to Wenger type as soon as something bad happens. I see only 2 solutions, get rid of Mustafi, Kos, Monreal because they are mentally and physically lost as a cause. Get a whole new defence not tainted with our last 5 years of training, either that or get a consultant like George Graham in behind the scenes, quietly so as not to embarrass the new coach. Get them drilled, get their minds right. 6 months should have been enough for Emery to change these players but it seems all he has done has passed straight through them with no tangible effect. Secondly, the midfield is where defence begins. Xhaka is pure walking excrement, as bad as I have ever seen. As bad as Denilson who would jog when opposition players are running at our box. He offers no protection to his team, the introduction of Torrierra has made him worse it seems. When pressure comes he simply is not there.
Emery also has to take a lot of blame, some things you can see and wonder if a pro coach cant see them. Laca and Auba are toothless without each other. Why split them up?. What did Ramsey offer yesterday that Laca would not have given and more. The man is losing me with each game, i'm afraid.
Yesterday even our better players were poor. Torreira was horrific for the first two goals and Sokratis was indifferent.
Don't think we can dismiss how bad we were with simply stating this is still a Wenger team. Only 2 Wenger guys were in that back 5 by the end and this team is now organised by another manager.
We need serious investment but that was evident from the summer to me......hence why I wanted us to sign a top draw goalkeeper and CB.
So, just to be clear. Getting 38 points from 20 games is a manager “doing the best he could”Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
But getting 37 points from 20 games (last season) was a manager who didn’t have a clue.
:lol:
You just cant help yourself can you Letters. Wenger is/was pure gash. No comparison with any entity, living or dead can make him look good. We are in the here and now. Emery may not be the solution, however Wenger never was. An anchor on his own club for more than a decade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Wenger wasn’t useless or an idiot. But the key difference is he built the team that ultimately dropped out of the top four, while Emery is trying to rebuild using many of the dodgy tools left behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Totally agree, the damage was done quite some time ago, mainly via a horrific transfer policy. Yes we have made the odd decent signing, but we have made a lot of dud signings of which some of them have cost a fair bit of money. Not only have our purchases been bad, our sales have been bad too. Continually allowing first team players to run down their contracts added to the fact we have handed out big contracts and wages to players who simply are not good enough for a team challenging for a CL spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Özim
Emery has done quite well up until recently, the cracks were always there but we rode our luck a fair bit.
Ill be honest, I’m worried about how we are going to sort out this mess of a squad we have, I’m worried we don’t have the funds to improve the team sufficiently. If we don’t have the funds then Emery is going to need to develop some of our Youth and integrate them into the team. I don’t think a transfer policy of bringing in waning over 30’s is the way to go!
No argument there, just amused at the way Zim and others have such polarised opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by SMatthews
No ability to think with any subtlety.
I’m not sure what to make of our squad. We are generally scoring enough but our defence is nowhere near good enough. I don’t think the whole squad needs rebuilding and I was hoping that with the defence the issue was largely coaching but there does seem to be a real lack of quality there, certainly in depth. Work to be done but while we are miles away from a title winning squad I don’t think we are more than a few key signings away from a top 4 spot and we can push on from there. We really need to sort out the captain situation. We really haven’t had a decent captain since Vieira. Wasn’t Ramsey captain yesterday and he’s leaving.
Emery gets a free pass this season but what he does in the summer and how we do next year will tell us more about what he is made of.
If Emery isn't given the money he will have next to no chance of achieving anything meaningful here. The competition is too strong.
You only have to look at Pochettino and Spurs to see how far good coaching will go. The fact they're as strong as they are is down to him, lets just thank our lucky stars they're lumbered with the stadium and can't spend money.
Get your wallet out Kroenke you stingy cunt.
Surely Kronke can do the maths and see if Emery doesn't improve the squad in January we'll end up 6th at best and won't get near winning the Europa lge either, we should get what we can for Ramsey now and maybe shift Ozil (though only because of his wages and that Emery doesn't seem to get on with him, plus i'm assuming we're stuck with Mhki for now) We need at least one decent CB and a good winger too