Arsenal v Brentfod Match Reaction and ratings

Ram - 6 - flapped around a bit but did at least kick the ball upfield a few times, which he's not done in the last couple of games
White - 6 - decent going forward but missing in defence too often
Saliba - 7 - did an OK job against Toney who is s real handful
Gabriel - 7 - one of our real rocks
Zinchenko - 0 - now our biggest liability, took way too many touches, constantly misplayed passes and tried to shoot when he couldn't hit a barn door - literally at one point the Brentford fans were singing at him that he was "embarrasing"
Partey - 7 - more of an important game in terms of him defending than attacking, should have tried a shot at some point
Odegaard - 5 - ineffective, off his game atm
Saka - 7.5 - not perfect but got the assist and had a good shot at another point, like a lot of other players took too many touches a lot of the time
Xhaka - 4 - increasingly starting to be shown up on technique and pace
Eddie - 6.5 - disappeared at times but did a decent job when he got the right ball - he's no Jesus though and we are really starting to miss Jesus now
Martinelli - 7 - tricky because again Zin and Xhaka denied him service as usual, but he needs a rest IMO
Trossard - 8 - comes on and gets the goal - needs a start against Citeh for sure
Vieira - 4 - what's the point, he's not a PL player IMO
Tierney - N/A as he didn't come on, but should have played FFS

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Ram - 6 - flapped around a bit but did at least kick the ball upfield a few times, which he's not done in the last couple of games
White - 6 - decent going forward but missing in defence too often
Saliba - 7 - did an OK job against Toney who is s real handful
Gabriel - 7 - one of our real rocks
Zinchenko - 0 - now our biggest liability, took way too many touches, constantly misplayed passes and tried to shoot when he couldn't hit a barn door - literally at one point the Brentford fans were singing at him that he was "embarrasing"
Partey - 7 - more of an important game in terms of him defending than attacking, should have tried a shot at some point
Odegaard - 5 - ineffective, off his game atm
Saka - 7.5 - not perfect but got the assist and had a good shot at another point, like a lot of other players took too many touches a lot of the time
Xhaka - 4 - increasingly starting to be shown up on technique and pace
Eddie - 6.5 - disappeared at times but did a decent job when he got the right ball - he's no Jesus though and we are really starting to miss Jesus now
Martinelli - 7 - tricky because again Zin and Xhaka denied him service as usual, but he needs a rest IMO
Trossard - 8 - comes on and gets the goal - needs a start against Citeh for sure
Vieira - 4 - what's the point, he's not a PL player IMO
Tierney - N/A as he didn't come on, but should have played FFS

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Two points dropped. FFS.
One point from six.
Top four struggle is on!

Aye, we are only *checks notes* 12 points above 5th place with 2 games in hand.

Can’t believe the defending for Toney’s goal. Proper school boy shit.

That was peak Wenger and Emery banter.

I’m not really interested in re litigating a goal that absolutely should not have stood to the point where Lee Mason I believe has been suspended from VAR duties for the rest of the season.

The defending in general was poor, too often caught out trying to pass our way out of defence and zonal marking on set pieces.

But again that’s not what concerns me. It’s having a lower xg than our opponents in the last two games. That simply is not good enough, and it definitely does require a re-think.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Aye, we are only *checks notes* 12 points above 5th place with 2 games in hand.

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The last time you made that comment, just a week or two ago, it was 15 points - leads can evaporate quickly when all of a sudden you can't find a win

As i said before, given Spuds' inconsistency, top four is still quite likely, but not certain, we dropped 9 points in just three games last season

What bothers me is how stubborn Arteta can be about what his best team is or see what's in front of him, someone who refuses to learn or adapt is going to come up short at some point

We're also really missing Jesus now which admittedly isn't Arteta's fault but he needs to show some imagination

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...equaliser.html

So VAR “forgot” to draw the lines to check for offside. Literally the only way you check it.

It’s corrupt

Clearly Lee Mason should never VAR us again (he also chalked off Martinelli's goal at Man U), but I think we're missing the point...if it hadn't been that goal I still firmly believe Brentford would have still scored anyway, so our inability to read and turn the tide properly at the crucial part of games that are clearly not going our way is getting to predictable.

I mean at HT I did say Brentford was going to score and it happened exactly that way.

IMO Martinelli should have never have come off as he was a clear goal threat, why couldn't Mikel mix it up and play him in the middle while still bringing in Trossard...I mean for FFS, we're at home, would it kill you to play 2 strikers for a team which had not scored in over 225 mins of open play??

VAR might make the loss of points more annoying, but lets be frank those of us who watched the full game know Brentford should have been out of sight with the pathetic chances and lack of imagination we showed.

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Ram - 6 - flapped around a bit but did at least kick the ball upfield a few times, which he's not done in the last couple of games
White - 7 - decent going forward but missing in defence too often
Saliba - 6 - did an OK job against Toney who is s real handful
Gabriel - 7 - one of our real rocks
Zinchenko - 3 - now our biggest liability, took way too many touches, constantly misplayed passes and tried to shoot when he couldn't hit a barn door - literally at one point the Brentford fans were singing at him that he was "embarrasing"
Partey - 7 - more of an important game in terms of him defending than attacking, should have tried a shot at some point
Odegaard - 5 - ineffective, off his game atm
Saka - 7.5 - not perfect but got the assist and had a good shot at another point, like a lot of other players took too many touches a lot of the time
Xhaka - 4 - increasingly starting to be shown up on technique and pace
Eddie - 6.5 - disappeared at times but did a decent job when he got the right ball - he's no Jesus though and we are really starting to miss Jesus now
Martinelli - 7 - tricky because again Zin and Xhaka denied him service as usual, but he needs a rest IMO
Trossard - 7- comes on and gets the goal - needs a start against Citeh for sure
Vieira - 3 - what's the point, he's not a PL player IMO
Tierney - N/A as he didn't come on, but should have played FFS

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Agree with most of the comments, edited the scores.

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Clearly Lee Mason should never VAR us again (he also chalked off Martinelli's goal at Man U), but I think we're missing the point...if it hadn't been that goal I still firmly believe Brentford would have still scored anyway, so our inability to read and turn the tide properly at the crucial part of games that are clearly not going our way is getting to predictable.

I mean at HT I did say Brentford was going to score and it happened exactly that way.

IMO Martinelli should have never have come off as he was a clear goal threat, why couldn't Mikel mix it up and play him in the middle while still bringing in Trossard...I mean for FFS, we're at home, would it kill you to play 2 strikers for a team which had not scored in over 225 mins of open play??

VAR might make the loss of points more annoying, but lets be frank those of us who watched the full game know Brentford should have been out of sight with the pathetic chances and lack of imagination we showed.

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Generally agree although still, if the only time they found the back of the net it should have been scrubbed off then that is a factor

And yes Arteta' game management just involves replacing people in individual positions but never changing tactics

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Generally agree although still, if the only time they found the back of the net it should have been scrubbed off then that is a factor

And yes Arteta' game management just involves replacing people in individual positions but never changing tactics

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They actually put the ball in the net in the first half too, though the ref blew early for a foul that shouldn't have been called IMO.

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

They actually put the ball in the net in the first half too, though the ref blew early for a foul that shouldn't have been called IMO.

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Fair point, I don't deny on balance of play they were more dangerous

Brentford deserved a result but for it to happen that way is a bit sickening. Isn’t that twice now we’ve had retrospective acknowledgement of a wrong decision against us? The other being Martinelli’s goal at Old Trafford which should have stood.

These are very fine margins with potentially huge consequences. They’ve got to do better.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Brentford deserved a result but for it to happen that way is a bit sickening. Isn’t that twice now we’ve had retrospective acknowledgement of a wrong decision against us? The other being Martinelli’s goal at Old Trafford which should have stood.

These are very fine margins with potentially huge consequences. They’ve got to do better.

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I’ve always thought that VAR is the right thing to do in principle, but they’re getting too much wrong.
The implementation at tournaments like the Euros and the World Cup is better than the PL, so they can do it. I haven’t seen yesterday’s incident but saying “oh soz, we forgot to draw the line” is nowhere near good enough at this level.

Whatever the current struggles we need to get out of this slump ASAP if we harbour any ambitions to continue this Title Challenge. Wednesday's game is a must not lose, a win given our current form would be a real statement.

Looking at the upcoming fixtures, games that I was very confident about us winning a few weeks back now look like very tricky fixtures. Let's hope we lay down a marker on Wednesday!

I always try to leave it a little while before assessing the game. The VAR fiasco makes a disappointing result even worse. But Saturday worried me for the following reasons.

We looked tired and off our game for the second time in a row - particularly in the first half. This can't be fatigue per se as our schedule has been relatively light, and like at Everton our whole team was below par. We were not crisp or decisive in our passing and our build up play was ponderous much of the time - which plays into the hands of a low block. We end up relying on moments of brilliance from individuals rather than the system and there's a brittleness from our players that for me speaks to confidence being punctured too easily. We saw this with our defence of their goal - no composure - and with snatched shots on their goal blazed high and wide or into the hands of their keeper.

Last year I wondered whether a complex system that requires players to be 'at it' 100% to work really effectively is Arteta's Achilles heel. Confidence seems to drain so quickly from this team - and worryingly the crowd on Saturday was the same - there was a lack of belief in our ability to get the job done that I am sure transmits itself to our players. I am concerned that the increasing pressure that comes with the second half of the season - when other teams have worked us out (Dyche showed the way in this regard) - means that our young team is starting to questin itself and the manager's methods. We don't seem to be able to switch it up effectively to give the opposition something different to think about - and Trossard aside, we don't really have the players to do so off the bench. I think the manager knows this - hence our pursuit of Mudryk and Caicedo - and the fact that we ended up with Jorginho - a player whom we can't really rely on to change a game IMO - seems both prosaic and perhaps a tacit admission that the manager doesn't really believe we can win the league. Our form on Saturday suggests that this belief is shaky all round. The fact that we remain on top of the league but the good feeling of just 2 1/2 weeks ago has dissipated speaks volumes.

I'm hoping that a win against Citeh on Wednesday turns what feels like a bit of a malaise around, but for me this feels currently more hope than expectation and it is disappointing that the narrative of those who said that our incredible first half of the season was an aberration rather than the true level of our current team looks more credible with each dropped point.

This is a story that has many different variants but always the same ending.

After City it’s Villa and Leicester away. We could be in serious trouble soon if we don’t shake off this wobble.

Not saying that you’re even referring to me but I think the word I chose was anomaly rather than abberation. Simply because the amount of points we were getting (we dropped 5 points from a possible 42 before the World Cup)

Whilst it’s disappointing that we didn’t procure our primary targets, I’m not really sure had we signed Mudryk or Caicedo (cannot see how we would have signed both) we would have been better off. Mudryk appeared to be a target for the Long term and it did not appear that we were even targeting a midfielder until it became clear that Elneny was needing surgery.

My opinion is that we do need to be more proactive in the transfer market, last summer it felt like we did our business quickly at first but then panicked. We should have signed a central midfielder regardless of injuries to Partey and Elneny but instead Arteta seems satisfied with what he had. We are led to believe that Vieira can play in the position Xhaka plays in but when actually have we seen this tried (he came on for Xhaka on Saturday but didn’t have enough time to impose himself)

On top of that, Arteta is very strange with team selection, when Zinchenko was injured in autumn he played Tomoyasu for the Liverpool game and I think that was tactically astute as he dealt with Salah well, but then he continued with that in the Leeds and Southampton game and it massively had a detrimental effect on our ability to attack

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

This is a story that has many different variants but always the same ending.

After City it’s Villa and Leicester away. We could be in serious trouble soon if we don’t shake off this wobble.

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To be fair we have been near flawless results wise up until now so any losses or dropped points will naturally cause concern because we are not use to it.

I admit I am starting to worry now and I am hoping if anything we put in a great performance on Wednesday. It's all very well dropping points, but we are now dropping them in games we look second best which is a big problem.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Not saying that you’re even referring to me but I think the word I chose was anomaly rather than abberation. Simply because the amount of points we were getting (we dropped 5 points from a possible 42 before the World Cup)

Whilst it’s disappointing that we didn’t procure our primary targets, I’m not really sure had we signed Mudryk or Caicedo (cannot see how we would have signed both) we would have been better off. Mudryk appeared to be a target for the Long term and it did not appear that we were even targeting a midfielder until it became clear that Elneny was needing surgery.

My opinion is that we do need to be more proactive in the transfer market, last summer it felt like we did our business quickly at first but then panicked. We should have signed a central midfielder regardless of injuries to Partey and Elneny but instead Arteta seems satisfied with what he had. We are led to believe that Vieira can play in the position Xhaka plays in but when actually have we seen this tried (he came on for Xhaka on Saturday but didn’t have enough time to impose himself)

On top of that, Arteta is very strange with team selection, when Zinchenko was injured in autumn he played Tomoyasu for the Liverpool game and I think that was tactically astute as he dealt with Salah well, but then he continued with that in the Leeds and Southampton game and it massively had a detrimental effect on our ability to attack

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TBH mate I wasn't thinking of you, or anyone else on here when I referenced narratives - more the Neville's in the wider punditry world - because plenty of people felt and still feel that Arsenal will 'do an Arsenal' and fail to stay the course. I think you are right of course regarding our unprecedented points accumulation. IIRC where I took issue with you was the implication that Arsenal's form/position was a false one. I felt that there was a lot of evidence to suggest that it was part of a sustained upward trajectory.

Has my view changed? Well I don't think so at this point. I think we both felt that winning the league was unlikely for this team, and I think that the past few games probably underline this. Where I think that doubs creep in regarding the fundamental changes to our team is that now what was then the Newcastle experience, (and Leeds where we got out of jail) seem (post Everton and Brentford) less like isolated off days and more indicators of a strategic weakness. When we are on we are really on, but we don't seem easily to be able to change our approach when game states show us failing to break a low block down....at least while Jesus is absent. Citeh are of course similar, but their overall quality - and therefore their ability to do so as a general rule - is higher than ours.

The manager's tactical nous seems more to be in considering how to set up against certain teams than changing things during games. However, this is tempered by what appears to be absolute faith in his usual starting 11 - to the detriment of back-ups who do not then get the game time that they need to really make a difference when they are subbed on. I just wonder whether the players are starting to lose a little confidence that our system will prevail when we are not demonstrably on top in difficult fixtures.