Tierney going to Newcastle

Lots of reports about Tierney being sold to Newcastle for 30 million this summer

Now in of itself I don’t really care, Tierney hasn’t played well when he has played (looks asthmatic)

But the implication is that a player who has been head and shoulders our worst player this season (well in fairness it’s actually Lokonga but he’s not had much game time) is going to be a bulwark of our defence going forward.

I’m old fashioned, I believe a left back should a) be able to defend b) actually show some understanding of what a left back does.

If you want someone who has a free role put him in the no8 role

Not in a position where he has been more single handedly responsible for goals than any other player

Your preconceived notions of what a player should or shouldn't be really aren't relevant.

Zinchenko has been a fantastic signing and consistantly one of our best players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GP

Your preconceived notions of what a player should or shouldn't be really aren't relevant.

Zinchenko has been a fantastic signing and consistantly one of our best players.

---

Fantastic at what?….in footballing terms…he’s like a speciality cask ale that hipsters don’t actually enjoy drinking but pretend they do because it’s kind of left field trendy

He’s not fantastic at defending so there’s that. So what is it he does?….don’t get me wrong he’s clearly technically very good but what does he actually do.

I mean aside from being left on his arse by wingers and being generally passive at dealing with crosses and attempted crosses. And of course giving the ball away in dangerous areas by over dwelling meaning he’s a liability to every team that does a high press

I love how the constant twitter narrative is how City must not believe they sold him to us, i think given his performance against city when they played at the emirates they know exactly why they fucking sold him to us.

Also consistently? He’s been consistently fucking terrible. He’s had two semi decent games since the World Cup at home to United and home to Everton.

I’d love it if Tierney stayed because I think it makes the squad stronger but if he wants regular football then I wouldn’t stand in the way of him leaving. He’s good enough to be starting at most clubs and we could get a premium from Newcastle too.

No idea if Tavares has matured or not but I wouldn’t be comfortable with him as the alternative.

With the exception of the young players and Xhaka, almost every player Arteta inherited has gone. He wants things done his way and with his players. So far it’s got us to the top of the league, so I’ll back him and the club with recruitment tbf.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

So far it’s got us to the top of the league, so I’ll back him and the club with recruitment tbf.

---

I never took that approach even with Wenger at his pomp, and I liked Wenger and trusted his judgement (well not towards the end)

Pascal Fucking Cygan Arsene? Come on. I remember when he bought that bald prick on when we were holding onto a 2-1 lead over Inter…I was apoplectic. Just as well we got that goal on the break and then Inter gave up

Everyone has their share of duds tbh. As long as the team is collectively progressing and improving that’s the only indicator I need for recruitment.

Plus back then we didn’t have a pot to piss in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Everyone has their share of duds tbh. As long as the team is collectively progressing and improving that’s the only indicator I need for recruitment.

Plus back then we didn’t have a pot to piss in.

---

It’s relative of course but it was somewhat overstated. In the summer before Islington council gave us the green light for the Ashburton Grove project we spent a fair bit (Jeffers, Wright, Van Bronckhorst - so quite a few duds there) and I can imagine Sol Campbell with signing on fee and wages didn’t come cheap either.

Plus four years prior to that Danny Fiszman essentially gave us the money out of his own pocket for Overmars and Petit. We clearly weren’t at United’s spending level but the poor club wasn’t ever quite accurate either.

The real squeeze on transfer spending ability didn’t really start until we moved into the Emirates, it was a little bit more Wenger being parsimonious (though two months after the Inter game I mentioned we signed the late Jose Reyes for a deal that was worth well over 15 million)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

It’s relative of course but it was somewhat overstated. In the summer before Islington council gave us the green light for the Ashburton Grove project we spent a fair bit (Jeffers, Wright, Van Bronckhorst - so quite a few duds there) and I can imagine Sol Campbell with signing on fee and wages didn’t come cheap either.

Plus four years prior to that Danny Fiszman essentially gave us the money out of his own pocket for Overmars and Petit. We clearly weren’t at United’s spending level but the poor club wasn’t ever quite accurate either.

The real squeeze on transfer spending ability didn’t really start until we moved into the Emirates, it was a little bit more Wenger being parsimonious (though two months after the Inter game I mentioned we signed the late Jose Reyes for a deal that was worth well over 15 million)

---

2001 was an eyebrow raiser but I’m referencing more the year after when Cygan signed as you mentioned him, those couple years following were pretty lean and I guess that had to be done for the stadium and its funding etc. Reyes was the outlier but even that deal was structured in a way which meant paying in performance related chunks. I remember reading we wanted to sign Van Persie in that January with Reyes but straight up couldn’t afford him and he was only 3m! So had to wait until the summer. We leant heavily on Wenger’s ability to find bargains but when you’re operating that way you’re going to get a lot wrong too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Lots of reports about Tierney being sold to Newcastle for 30 million this summer

Now in of itself I don’t really care, Tierney hasn’t played well when he has played (looks asthmatic)

But the implication is that a player who has been head and shoulders our worst player this season (well in fairness it’s actually Lokonga but he’s not had much game time) is going to be a bulwark of our defence going forward.

I’m old fashioned, I believe a left back should a) be able to defend b) actually show some understanding of what a left back does.

If you want someone who has a free role put him in the no8 role

Not in a position where he has been more single handedly responsible for goals than any other player

---

What you want from a left back and what Arteta wants are at completely different ends of the spectrum. I agree that a Left backs duty first and foremost is to defend and Zinchenko does get pulled out of position at times but that is by design, Arteta wants him inverting into Midfield.

I also don't agree that Zinchenko has been our worst player this season, he adds a heck of lot to this team and for me is clear first choice in that position, the positives of his performances and what he brings to the team far outweigh the negatives IMO.

P.S. I think we should be taking Newcastle to the cleaners with the Tierney fee assuming he goes, 30million? We should be demanding 40million mininum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by selassie

What you want from a left back and what Arteta wants are at completely different ends of the spectrum. I agree that a Left backs duty first and foremost is to defend and Zinchenko does get pulled out of position at times but that is by design, Arteta wants him inverting into Midfield.

I also don't agree that Zinchenko has been our worst player this season, he adds a heck of lot to this team and for me is clear first choice in that position, the positives of his performances and what he brings to the team far outweigh the negatives IMO.

P.S. I think we should be taking Newcastle to the cleaners with the Tierney fee assuming he goes, 30million? We should be demanding 40million mininum.

---

He’s our worst player because we are effectively playing with three defenders at the back and what he gives us in midfield does not come close to compensating for it. If he wants to play him in midfield do so and drop Xhaka instead.

Plus even in midfield he gives the ball away far too much because he is a ditherer and is too indecisive. That we are top of the league is despite him not because of him.


It’s not a coincidence that he started the three games we’ve lost this season and was by far the worst player on the pitch. This is an example of Arteta being Galaxy brained and when we play high pressing teams that won’t give us the time or space to indulge having a player like Zinchenko on the pitch, we will suffer for it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GP

Your preconceived notions of what a player should or shouldn't be really aren't relevant.

Zinchenko has been a fantastic signing and consistantly one of our best players.

---

rubbish, he often gives the ball away in situations where we've committed palyers forward, he dawdles around taking too many touches and wastes time, ignores our left winger when they're in space and slows down our play.

occasionally he forgets himself and lays in a useful direct pass for an assist or even scores a goal, but the rest of the time he's actually impeding us getting forward quickly and is one of the reasons we sometimes struggle to score IMO - he plays straight into the hands of teams defending deep against us

I think it's tragic losing a player as good as Tierney - there's nothing wrong with him - he's rarely played this season and when he does he's made to play completely out of position

unfortunately we have a manager who wants to eliminate the left back position and we're just having to suck it up

I like Zinchenko but can’t really deny that he does lose the ball in dangerous areas a lot.

I appreciate his ability be an extra option in midfield but I feel like it’s a party trick that isn’t really suited to the majority of teams we’ll face as it isn’t going to break a deep block. Against the better teams who actually try to play football it’s useful but the fact this is our permanent option now seems a bit risky to me.

When Tierney came on against Everton he drifted into midfield too. Which leads me to believe this is something Arteta wants from all his left backs. Not quite sure there’s another left back out there who’s comfortable enough to play like that effectively.

I’ll just put this down to some weird Pep/Arteta hipster thinking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

I like Zinchenko but can’t really deny that he does lose the ball in dangerous areas a lot.

I appreciate his ability be an extra option in midfield but I feel like it’s a party trick that isn’t really suited to the majority of teams we’ll face as it isn’t going to break a deep block. Against the better teams who actually try to play football it’s useful but the fact this is our permanent option now seems a bit risky to me.

When Tierney came on against Everton he drifted into midfield too. Which leads me to believe this is something Arteta wants from all his left backs. Not quite sure there’s another left back out there who’s comfortable enough to play like that effectively.

I’ll just put this down to some weird Pep/Arteta hipster thinking.

---

very well put, especially " it’s a party trick that isn’t really suited to the majority of teams we’ll face as it isn’t going to break a deep block"

it's totally that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

I like Zinchenko but can’t really deny that he does lose the ball in dangerous areas a lot.

I appreciate his ability be an extra option in midfield but I feel like it’s a party trick that isn’t really suited to the majority of teams we’ll face as it isn’t going to break a deep block. Against the better teams who actually try to play football it’s useful but the fact this is our permanent option now seems a bit risky to me.

When Tierney came on against Everton he drifted into midfield too. Which leads me to believe this is something Arteta wants from all his left backs. Not quite sure there’s another left back out there who’s comfortable enough to play like that effectively.

I’ll just put this down to some weird Pep/Arteta hipster thinking.

---

Aye it's that, Pep/Arteta love at least one of their full backs to invert into Midfield. City seem to be doing it with that Rico Lewis kid who has just broken into their team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

He’s our worst player because we are effectively playing with three defenders at the back and what he gives us in midfield does not come close to compensating for it. If he wants to play him in midfield do so and drop Xhaka instead.

Plus even in midfield he gives the ball away far too much because he is a ditherer and is too indecisive. That we are top of the league is despite him not because of him.


It’s not a coincidence that he started the three games we’ve lost this season and was by far the worst player on the pitch. This is an example of Arteta being Galaxy brained and when we play high pressing teams that won’t give us the time or space to indulge having a player like Zinchenko on the pitch, we will suffer for it

---

He plays the inverted role because that's what Arteta wants, that does not make him our worst player, it's not like he is not following instruction and refusing to play where he is told to play. He plays this role by design.

Sure we are not top of the league solely based on him playing for us, just like he isn't responsible for the 3 defeats this season.

It is what it is, Arteta doesn't seem to fancy playing with 2 traditional full backs so if it's not Zinchenko it's going to be somebody else playing that inverted role at full back.

the idea he's an improvement doesn't really add up when you look at the points return

Zinchenko has meaningfully contributed (minutes-on-the-pitch-wise) to all but 8 PL fixtures ths season.

in those 8 games, playing with either Tomi or Tierney in a more proper left-back position, we averaged 2.75 points

in the other 18 where Zin played most or all the game, we average 2.28 points

OK, there are other factors, e.g. the games he didn't meaningly feature in were also when we had Jesus, but still no-one can argue we get more points with him than without him

and MO's point about his ineffectiveness against low-block sides is important because it shows how Arteta won't consider playing a proper left back who can break forward and stretch the defence like, err, Tierney can be so good at - that would have been a good plan B against Newcastle or Brentford for example

if Tierney does go to Newcastle just watch him take teams (including us probably) apart next season while we have to watch Zinchenko dawdle and mess up every week

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by selassie

He plays the inverted role because that's what Arteta wants, that does not make him our worst player, it's not like he is not following instruction and refusing to play where he is told to play. He plays this role by design.

Sure we are not top of the league solely based on him playing for us, just like he isn't responsible for the 3 defeats this season.

It is what it is, Arteta doesn't seem to fancy playing with 2 traditional full backs so if it's not Zinchenko it's going to be somebody else playing that inverted role at full back.

---

But that’s not it is it, he’s not only not very good at being a left back because he’s playing in the inverted position, he doesn’t seem to even understand what he needs to do when reverting to the left back role, he’s too passive at stopping crosses when he’s back in that role, gets turned too easily by wingers (this is more than just a case of being caught out of position)

If you’re arguing that Arteta is a barrier to our winning the title, you’ll get no argument from me. Like with Zinchenko we are where we are despite Arteta not because of him, a manager that doesn’t know how to rotate, is slow to drop poor performing players and in my opinion is a very poor man manager.

But Zinchenko is like one of those IPA’s in a colourful can that hipsters won’t admit they don’t like

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

But that’s not it is it, he’s not only not very good at being a left back because he’s playing in the inverted position, he doesn’t seem to even understand what he needs to do when reverting to the left back role, he’s too passive at stopping crosses when he’s back in that role, gets turned too easily by wingers (this is more than just a case of being caught out of position)

If you’re arguing that Arteta is a barrier to our winning the title, you’ll get no argument from me. Like with Zinchenko we are where we are despite Arteta not because of him, a manager that doesn’t know how to rotate, is slow to drop poor performing players and in my opinion is a very poor man manager.

But Zinchenko is like one of those IPA’s in a colourful can that hipsters won’t admit they don’t like

---

I don't see him as a big a issue as you do, in fact I don't see him as an issue at all TBH. I see him as a sum of parts that has contributed to the team being top of the table and chasing their first title in more or less 20 years.

If your argument is that he is a lousy full back and weakens the team both defensively and offensively then that's your opinion, I don't agree with it and you won't get me agreeing with it either. I haven't got time to go back and forth over something that I personally don't see is an issue in the team.

I am not arguing anything about Arteta being a barrier to us winning the title, not even sure what that's got to do with it, that's unless you think Zinchenko will solely cost us the title?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mac76

the idea he's an improvement doesn't really add up when you look at the points return

Zinchenko has meaningfully contributed (minutes-on-the-pitch-wise) to all but 8 PL fixtures ths season.

in those 8 games, playing with either Tomi or Tierney in a more proper left-back position, we averaged 2.75 points

in the other 18 where Zin played most or all the game, we average 2.28 points

OK, there are other factors, e.g. the games he didn't meaningly feature in were also when we had Jesus, but still no-one can argue we get more points with him than without him

and MO's point about his ineffectiveness against low-block sides is important because it shows how Arteta won't consider playing a proper left back who can break forward and stretch the defence like, err, Tierney can be so good at - that would have been a good plan B against Newcastle or Brentford for example

if Tierney does go to Newcastle just watch him take teams (including us probably) apart next season while we have to watch Zinchenko dawdle and mess up every week

---

You need to dig a bit deeper in your stats regarding the points return, your argument pretty much fall aparts in the fact that Zinchenko is always picked for the big games whereas Tomi or Tierney are mostly utility / squad players now so most likely play in the lesser games.

The team in general has not looked as comfortable against low-block sides since Jesus has been out, Zinchenko is not the only one struggling against low-block sides.

Tierney is a decent full back but take teams apart? When has he even ever done that for us? He's not that good!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by selassie

I don't see him as a big a issue as you do, in fact I don't see him as an issue at all TBH. I see him as a sum of parts that has contributed to the team being top of the table and chasing their first title in more or less 20 years.

If your argument is that he is a lousy full back and weakens the team both defensively and offensively then that's your opinion, I don't agree with it and you won't get me agreeing with it either. I haven't got time to go back and forth over something that I personally don't see is an issue in the team.

I am not arguing anything about Arteta being a barrier to us winning the title, not even sure what that's got to do with it, that's unless you think Zinchenko will solely cost us the title?

---

No I’m saying Zinchenko is but an example of why we are 1st despite Arteta not because of him.

It’s one of those quixotic things that is unnecessary but we do it because Arteta thinks he is the smartest guy around and it’s the stellar effort of some of our best performers this season which means that we can still walk with the bear trap around our leg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

No I’m saying Zinchenko is but an example of why we are 1st despite Arteta not because of him.

It’s one of those quixotic things that is unnecessary but we do it because Arteta thinks he is the smartest guy around and it’s the stellar effort of some of our best performers this season which means that we can still walk with the bear trap around our leg

---

We are 1st and in the mix to win our first title in years, Arteta has his flaws and is by no means perfect, but he built this team and it's exceeding expectations, sure we can nit pick all day every day, but Zinchenko and Arteta are the least our problems IMO!

Be a shame to see Tierney go.

He's a good Yes voter.