What the fuck was that?
0-2 after twenty minutes. Will we ever learn?
We have literally thrown away the league in less than two weeks.
No flowering this one up.
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What the fuck was that?
0-2 after twenty minutes. Will we ever learn?
We have literally thrown away the league in less than two weeks.
No flowering this one up.
Player Ratings
Ramsdale 4
White 6
Holding 3
Gabriel 5
Zinchenko 2
Partey 5
Vieira 3
Odegaard 7
Martinelli 6
Saka 6
Jesus 5
Subs
Trossard 7
Nelson 7
Nketiah 3
Talented group but fragile mentality.
We’ll be put out of our misery once and for all on Wednesday.
Thank fuck for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
Think we'll take the lead at the Etihad and go down in agonising fashion.
Our defence stinks.Quote:
Originally Posted by McNamara That Ghost...
We gonna get tonked 5-1.
Jesus H Christ
Fuck sake.
Happy St Totteringham’s Day!
:partytime:
No?
:getcoat:
Dont worry. Xhaka will recover and so will we. 1-2 to the Gunners
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
I briefly mentioned this yesterday. At this point you take what you can get.
With Newcastle and Brighton to come, this probably isn’t going to the wire anymore either. Which is the saddest part.
What are the odds that Chelsea get a result at the Emirates now as well? They’re bloody awful but I don’t see where our next win is coming from.
It often feels like that during wobbles.
The next win isn’t coming at The Ethiad, clearly, but I suspect we will pick ourselves up at some point. It’ll probably be too little, too late.
We are 3 points off where The Invincibles we’re at this stage. It has overall been a terrific effort. And I think we all suspected City would mow us down in the end. Disappointing to gift wrap it for them though.
Even a draw on Wednesday now leaves us needing a favour.
Just so gutted we’ve undone all the hard work this season like this. So weak.
The annoying thing is this has happened many times at this stage of the season. Why do we just fall away at the last stages? We need to strengthen our defence in the summer and shift Partey and Gabriel out. Both are liabilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
I think there is a mentality and inexperience issue although I do think there’s a bit more about this lot, other seasons we wouldn’t have rescued a point last night.
And the squad depth was always going to be an issue. We needed a lot of luck with injuries, we almost got it but Saliba being out had clearly been a factor.
I agree. The Saliba injury came at a really bad time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
That is where FFP is failing with Man Shitty, they have two highly talented squads to call from.
It'd be four draws in a row and really can't expect the title with that but anything to stop the losing run against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
As you say it'd be out of our hands but I'd be ok with that thinking it has probably gone now anyway.
I think title winners of the past have often come close before breaking through the glass ceiling. This experience should toughen them up a bit you hope for next year.
Agreed. But, City aren’t going away. The only time they failed to win it over the last 5 - let’s face it, 6 - was when Liverpool went absolutely mental and all but won it by February. They won 26 out of their first 27 games, drawing the other. It was insane. That’s what it’s taken to get the better of City and as well as we’ve done this year I can’t see us doing what Liverpool did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
The title was lost on 15th Feb. That initiated what will be a 12 point swing against city. You can't give a team like city that kind of advantage and hope to finish above them. Even a draw in that game would have made a huge difference. Then you go for a draw in the return leg and you've nullified your biggest rival and levelled the playing field. Then you have a shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
City have a 30 goal man up top. Arsenal used to have that. City have a warrior directing the traffic in midfield, Arsenal used to have that. Now they have 9 goal Jesus (who never would have hit 30 even without the injury) and the ludicrous non-entity Partey. Kids like Saka and Martinelli are coming through and they'll develop into players that can win a title. But it's too early for them yet and they need proper support in key areas.
Give is 2 more seasons of improvement and experience and then a title is a possibility. For the first time in decades it's finally heading in the right direction.
Unusually, I pretty much agree with all of that.
That City game was a big red flag. You don’t lose at home to your rivals and win the title.
But our response to that was very good just when it looked like it might all fall apart.
You can’t argue with 7 wins in a row. Trouble is City just kept winning too because that’s what they do. The recent wobble has been very disappointing, we’ve handed the title to them on a plate.
But I think they’d have won it anyway. They were a machine anyway and then they got Haaland.
Struggling to see past them for the treble
Man City have Brighton and Brentford away back to back.
They're the only ones I have any hope for really. :lol:
Problem is we’ve had our “kind” fixtures now. The next few games are all ones that we earmarked as banana skins. With confidence in the gutter we’ll need something very special to pick ourselves up now.
Even if City drop points somewhere you can’t be sure that we’ll capitalise.
Didn’t that happen earlier in the season when we had The Wobble?™.
We dropped silly points then beat Utd and Spurs which were harder fixtures.
I just hope we pick ourselves up and make City work for the title.
Hadn't occurred to me, no-one even mentioned that in the pub last night, in a way it's good, we've got bigger fish to fry than finishing above a team of perpetual losersQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We really needed to show our credentials yesterday but messed it all up early on
That said the title was gone when we drew with Liverpool and, importantly, the way we drew that hame - I was actually starting to believe during that first half but then it was gone when we let them back into it, we were always gping to lose at Citeh so at that point the advantage was theirs
As MO says we've got tough teams coming up and we're looking very shaky even if we did show some good spirit to fight back yesterday
This could all be rather ugly unless Arteta takes control of it and gives some players like Nelson and Trossard more of a chance, also Tierney
True still first time we’ve done so in 7 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
But yeah can’t say I’m surprised no one in the pub mentioned it given we expected to win comfortably
ofc the joke is these aren't far off what you give them when we win 4-1 :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
I'm bored of Holding being a scapegoat, it's not him alone and tbh what you're really doing is punishing him for not being Saliba who is an exceptional talent
Also Vieira was a 5, he did contribute some good balls forward but IK he doesn't shore up the midfield like Xhaka does - tbh he feels like a luxery player and I'm not sure we can really accomodate him
Zin made at least one major fuck up nd was partly culpable for their third goal but elsewhere was useful - 4
Partey was a 3 not a 5 - dreadful and we need to play Jorginho next time and just tell him to stay in front of the defence
agree with the markings for the subs though, Nelson and Trossard threatened but Nketiah was completely anonymous and has basically reverted to type - we need to sell him in the summer and have Balogun as our backup striker
The performance wasn’t much better against Leeds, the difference was Southampton were able to score with the chances they created.
Holding isn’t being punished for not being Saliba he’s being punished for being slow and ponderous as I said before…the defending was often not brilliant when Saliba was playing. Even before Saliba got the back injury we’d conceded 16 goals at home in 13 games.
Playing Jorginho against City would for me only work if he played alongside Partey
In a previous thread I had suggested we use Friday for the dress rehearsal against Citeh..and .if indeed Arteta's plan is to try Viera one more time with Partey, then we might as well not even show up and just give them the damn 3 points!!Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Jorginho with Partey should have been attempted already , though you could say with Zinchenko back in the team you might be overcrowding the middle just a bit too much....but cone to think of it is that a bad thing for a team that keeps conceding +2 goals in every game??
The other option if he really wanted to go gung ho (and face it we have nothing to lose anyway) is to start Trossard their...then Jesus and him could interchange a bit and he (Jesus) could fall as deep as he like.
Itsan extreme shame we could not make a better use of playing the bottom team in the league but honestly we've been borderline suicidal these past few weeks and it seems thats the way we want to keep it!
My thoughts...
For me Friday's game showed that there are no 'gimmes' in the EPL. The standard generally is very high and if you are off your game by even 5% than you'll get hurt. Even the mighty Citeh drew at Forest and these games can happen. We were off by more than that against Southampton. Stupid risk taking led to their first; sloppiness in MF for their second.
Funnily enough I'm more sanguine about Friday's result than I was with that at Anfield and at West Ham. Southampton are a bogey team for us. Arenal have 'always' in recent times been a team that beat themselves with stupid mistakes, but to lose our composure when we were in total control at those 2 away games was very difficult to stomach.
And lack of control/composure is the issue with our team lately, IMO. It's not a lack of self belief per se - we still have this. Instead it is losing our heads. Friday was anarchic - as we were so desperate to make amends for going 0-2 down. It's ironic that Arteta's team has transformed from an over-structured set up that frustrated with a lack of lateral movement to one that is too gung ho and aggressive - creating far to many turnovers and attacking opprtunities for the other side. We need to understand when to push high, and remember that probing for an opportunity but keeping the ball - and waiting for an error from the other side lets us control the tempo of a game and puts our defence under less pressure. We need to trust in the quality of our MF and attack to take opportunities when they present themselves - not try to force the issue.
We looked immature and jittery on Friday - as we did for large periods of the preceding 2 games. It's too easy to blame injuries for this. More a mindset - that has disintegrated a bit with pressure.
And while I have not tended to point the finger at the Manager recently, he made some obvious mistakes against Southampton. I don't understand what Vieira has shown to merit a start ahead of Trossard, and if there were any instructions to manage the game state properly then these were not in evidence. A slow patient start was required - to allow our team's superior quality to assert itself. Instead we saw a team looking to score goals from the off - and this set the tone for a chaotic display.
Its difficult to see where the magical turnaround is going to come from with this team ATM. Its seems a bit strange referring to a turnaround when we have not lost the past 3 games - but I mean a turnaround in self control. I agree that our only hope is to be positive against Citeh on Wednesday, but any less than 100% focus will only mean one thing...
The result on Friday was the most unexpected of the three draws simply because this is a side that has given up the ghost on premier league survival. I wasn’t as angry about it as the West Ham game because I believed the league was done with as a result of not beating West Ham. We had for me a narrow path to the title that allowed us to drop points in two maybe three fixtures and this was not the fixture we could afford not to win.
I don’t often agree with NQ but I think there is an argument to be made that on a psychological level anyway losing to City at the Emirates made the title a big ask….not just because of the result but the performance in the second half where it didn’t feel like we believed we could get anything from the game.
Fridays game was interesting because it felt like even getting a draw came out of out of a nothing to lose hit and hope mentality. Odegaard went for a shot that I don’t believe he would have tried were we drawing the game and it came off.
This approach won’t work against City and for the life of me I don’t see what will. If we go for it they will pick us off like they did with Liverpool. If we play like Newcastle they will wear us down.
A couple of the missed chances at the Emirates against City suggests to me we lack the belief that we can beat them. Even in the 1 in 100 chance of getting a win there wouldn’t make us favourites for the title and we would be sweating on the fitness of Saliba for Newcastle and given he’s already been ruled out for a game in 8 days time (against Chelsea) suggests he won’t be ready for that game
Team I would play against City
Ramsdale, Tierney, Gabriel, Kiwior, White, Jorginho, Partey, Odegaard, Martinelli, Jesus, Trossard
Generally ok though despite Holding's failings it's a big risk bringing Kiwior inQuote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
I'd leave out Partey (or maybe play him at CB instead of Holding) and play Saka, with Trossard in the No. 8 role
It is a big risk but there’s no avoiding big risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Playing Jorginho on his own in midfield would be suicidal, he’s just far too slow to cope and we’d find ourselves penned in like we did in the second half against City
Whilst I think we need personnel changes, we should no go Galaxy brained (like Partey at centre back or Trossard in No 8 role…not to say neither couldn’t work but these would be the kind of go for contingency when playing against relegation fodder at home because whilst Kiwior is a risk that’s whole other level because at least you’re playing him in position)
Holding is a no no not just because of his defensive vulnerability but because he cannot play his way out of trouble (neither can Gabriel) that’s been half the problem with him…it’s become harder to make defensive to attacking transitions
If we were to make any radical changes, I would suggest Zinchenko at RB and White in as a CB again.
Agree with you re: Kiwior.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
We bought him as back up and then dust Holding off (who isn't good enough) to cover every game.
He is a liability and Gabriel clearly doesn't have enough confidence in him.
Also, whilst I think Jorg should have started alongside Partey (over Vieira) on Friday, I think if Xhaka is fit then he should be in there as normal.
Absolutely it should.Quote:
Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE
Unfortunately that is one of Arteta's limitations and where he fails.
He only seems to see players as like for like and 90% of his subs have been so in games. He reacts too late and not always with what is needed.