Man City vs Arsenal 26.04.2023 Match reaction and player ratings

Ramsdale 8 - You wonder what it could have been if he hadn’t made so many saves


White 5 - Decent goal line clearance at 1-0 otherwise ineffective


Holding 4. Not his fault but when you play him in a system like ours against Man City he will be badly exposed. Given him a 4 because he scored


Gabriel 5 - Couldn’t do much but has suffered without a decent centre back partner


Zinchenko 3 - Embarassing



Partey 5 - Badly shown up last night, dispossessed constantly and isolated



Xhaka 4 - His usual dawdling



Odegaard 3 - For all the good performances he’s put in, doesn’t turn up in important away games


Martinelli 4 - Isolated as per usual


Jesus 4- Did he play because don’t remember seeing him


Saka 4 - As much penetration as a marshmallow phallus



Jorginho 6
Trossard 6
Nelson 6

Nketiah 4
Smith Rowe 4


Well this was largely what we expected wasn’t it?. We know we were up against it because of how Rampant city were, but what rankles is how easy it was for them. Arteta like last season blames the players saying they have to look at themselves in the mirror when he has set them up to fail. This was a team that never believed it wasn’t going to get a pasting.
The parallels between last season and now are astonishing, when adversity hits we hit the wall because the coach trusts certain players too much and certain players not enough.
If we recruit well in central midfield in the summer I believe we will have a very good squad, but it’s one that the coach needs to utilise more.
Saka has played too many games this season, at times he has been brilliant but recently not so good and I don’t believe it would harm him to sit out a few games, he’s a decent lad with strong self belief but without being arrogant with it
We shouldn’t need to sweat on the fitness of William Saliba or Thomas Partey the way we have. We don’t need to play an inverted left back, it made no difference for us in midfield last night.

Arteta for me is a slow learner because of his total self belief, he’s built a team that has excelled this season but if it crumbles when the obstacles emerge it will have been for nothing.

As I said last night, he has earned the right to another season but it does not erase the doubts I have about him especially as the same mistakes have been present and seemingly not addressed.

Next season will be even harder than this one, city are going no where and on top of that United and Newcastle will be much stronger. That plus champions league….if Arteta cannot adapt and continue our progress then it will be time to part ways

Partey was really, really bad. Feel like he’s downed tools and one of the biggest culprits over the past 4 games.

Signings I would be looking to make are:

2 CM’s, 1 CB and probably a LB if Tierney wants to go.

Also need to make a call on Balogun or buy a striker. Jesus is a great footballer but generally shite in front of goal. You also don’t get that hold up play with him like Haaland was providing De Bruyne with. Not being able to mix it up has made us one dimensional and I think we’ve been figured out because of it.

If changes aren’t made for the Chelsea game I would really begin to question Arteta’s logic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Ramsdale 8 - You wonder what it could have been if he hadn’t made so many saves


White 5 - Decent goal line clearance at 1-0 otherwise ineffective


Holding 4. Not his fault but when you play him in a system like ours against Man City he will be badly exposed. Given him a 4 because he scored


Gabriel 5 - Couldn’t do much but has suffered without a decent centre back partner


Zinchenko 3 - Embarassing



Partey 5 - Badly shown up last night, dispossessed constantly and isolated



Xhaka 4 - His usual dawdling



Odegaard 3 - For all the good performances he’s put in, doesn’t turn up in important away games


Martinelli 4 - Isolated as per usual


Jesus 4- Did he play because don’t remember seeing him


Saka 4 - As much penetration as a marshmallow phallus



Jorginho 6
Trossard 6
Nelson 6

Nketiah 4
Smith Rowe 4


Well this was largely what we expected wasn’t it?. We know we were up against it because of how Rampant city were, but what rankles is how easy it was for them. Arteta like last season blames the players saying they have to look at themselves in the mirror when he has set them up to fail. This was a team that never believed it wasn’t going to get a pasting.
The parallels between last season and now are astonishing, when adversity hits we hit the wall because the coach trusts certain players too much and certain players not enough.
If we recruit well in central midfield in the summer I believe we will have a very good squad, but it’s one that the coach needs to utilise more.
Saka has played too many games this season, at times he has been brilliant but recently not so good and I don’t believe it would harm him to sit out a few games, he’s a decent lad with strong self belief but without being arrogant with it
We shouldn’t need to sweat on the fitness of William Saliba or Thomas Partey the way we have. We don’t need to play an inverted left back, it made no difference for us in midfield last night.

Arteta for me is a slow learner because of his total self belief, he’s built a team that has excelled this season but if it crumbles when the obstacles emerge it will have been for nothing.

As I said last night, he has earned the right to another season but it does not erase the doubts I have about him especially as the same mistakes have been present and seemingly not addressed.

Next season will be even harder than this one, city are going no where and on top of that United and Newcastle will be much stronger. That plus champions league….if Arteta cannot adapt and continue our progress then it will be time to part ways

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Very generous.

Ramsdale gets a 7 and the rest get 1 imo.

Didn't even turn up until the 70th mintue.

What a total fucking shit show.

But it's ok, Arteta is 'over achieving' and the players think 2nd + CL is alright.

Get in the bin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Partey was really, really bad. Feel like he’s downed tools and one of the biggest culprits over the past 4 games.

Signings I would be looking to make are:

2 CM’s, 1 CB and probably a LB if Tierney wants to go.

Also need to make a call on Balogun or buy a striker. Jesus is a great footballer but generally shite in front of goal. You also don’t get that hold up play with him like Haaland was providing De Bruyne with. Not being able to mix it up has made us one dimensional and I think we’ve been figured out because of it.

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I think we should keep Tierney and sell Zinchenko quite frankly

I expected us to get a beating last night, it was a non-contest, we were defeated before a ball was even kicked. Our form and general confidence has pretty much gone and the team we are seeing now is performing like the Arsenal of last season. Arteta certainly has a part to play in this, he is just repeating the same things now with the line up of the team and the tactics, he is expecting to see different results which clearly isn't happening. This team even with everybody fully fit is not good enough to go to City and win, especially a City who are now in top form.

City are great and all that but we have made it very easy for them with our recent form, we have dropped points in unexpected places and have performed way below the level we maintained earlier this season, our form nosedived from the Liverpool game onwards.

Despite the above, it has been a successful season in terms of my personal expectations of the team / squad. To maintain this standard going into next season with the added bonus or headache of CL! We need to invest in real quality, as others have said, 2 CM's, a CB that is good enough to properly challenge for a starting place and possibly a LB if Tierney goes. The squad as it stands is clearly not strong enough to mount a challenge next season in PL and CL, we have to buy ready made players like Rice, Caicedo if we want to maintain this standard going forward.

P.S. Agree with what others have said about Arteta use of the squad, it's become a bit of an issue now, changes most certainly should be made for Chelsea, especially offensively where you could argue 2 of the 3 starting players (Saka and Jesus /or Martinelli) could and should be rotated with the likes of Trossard and Nelson. I would also rotate Jorginho with Partey, Partey has been really bad in this run-in.

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

Didn't even turn up until the 70th minute.

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That's not what happened.
We didn't suddenly "turn up", City took their foot off the gas, it was job done and they have the CL to think about.
Arsenal used to do this in their pomp, blow teams away and then coast, that's what City did last night.

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But it's ok, Arteta is 'over achieving' and the players think 2nd + CL is alright.

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Given where we've been over the last few seasons where did you think we'd finish this year? Top 4 was my expectation or hope.
If you'd told me that we'd be in a genuine title race I'd have laughed in your stupid face.
Any reaction to or analysis of this season has to be in the context of where we've been over the last few years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Letters

That's not what happened.
We didn't suddenly "turn up", City took their foot off the gas, it was job done and they have the CL to think about.
Arsenal used to do this in their pomp, blow teams away and then coast, that's what City did last night.

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You have to be in the game from kick off for that scenario to apply though, we weren't until the 70th minute - so I stand by what I said.

Quote:

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Given where we've been over the last few seasons where did you think we'd finish this year? Top 4 was my expectation or hope.
If you'd told me that we'd be in a genuine title race I'd have laughed in your stupid face.
Any reaction to or analysis of this season has to be in the context of where we've been over the last few years.

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Expectations change with result and time though.
I would have agreed with you at the start of the season.

However, being so many points clear for most of the season, having our destiny in our hands and then throwing it all away in the same manner we seem to do every season is a bit different.

I feel completely let down now, and us finishing second just seems like a loser mentality to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

You have to be in the game from kick off for that scenario to apply though, we weren't until the 70th minute - so I stand by what I said.




Expectations change with result and time though.
I would have agreed with you at the start of the season.

However, being so many points clear for most of the season, having our destiny in our hands and then throwing it all away in the same manner we seem to do every season is a bit different.

I feel completely let down now, and us finishing second just seems like a loser mentality to me.

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We have had one decent season in god knows how long, expectations change but we are by no means a certified Top 2 side like Liverpool have been over the past 4 or 5 seasons up until this season.

This current Arsenal team at the moment is more like the Liverpool side that challenged under Rodgers with Sterling, Suarez and Sturridge than the Liverpool side that challenged repeatedly under Klopp. Whilst I do think we look like a certified top 4 side on this seasons showing, we certainly need to improve both the team and squad to maintain this challenge next season especially with the added CL games. To take the next step forward is all about further internal improvement, both the manager and players and also recruiting very well. We pretty much need to follow the "Liverpool Template"

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Originally Posted by selassie

I expected us to get a beating last night, it was a non-contest, we were defeated before a ball was even kicked. Our form and general confidence has pretty much gone and the team we are seeing now is performing like the Arsenal of last season. Arteta certainly has a part to play in this, he is just repeating the same things now with the line up of the team and the tactics, he is expecting to see different results which clearly isn't happening. This team even with everybody fully fit is not good enough to go to City and win, especially a City who are now in top form.

City are great and all that but we have made it very easy for them with our recent form, we have dropped points in unexpected places and have performed way below the level we maintained earlier this season, our form nosedived from the Liverpool game onwards.

Despite the above, it has been a successful season in terms of my personal expectations of the team / squad. To maintain this standard going into next season with the added bonus or headache of CL! We need to invest in real quality, as others have said, 2 CM's, a CB that is good enough to properly challenge for a starting place and possibly a LB if Tierney goes. The squad as it stands is clearly not strong enough to mount a challenge next season in PL and CL, we have to buy ready made players like Rice, Caicedo if we want to maintain this standard going forward.

P.S. Agree with what others have said about Arteta use of the squad, it's become a bit of an issue now, changes most certainly should be made for Chelsea, especially offensively where you could argue 2 of the 3 starting players (Saka and Jesus /or Martinelli) could and should be rotated with the likes of Trossard and Nelson. I would also rotate Jorginho with Partey, Partey has been really bad in this run-in.

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:gp:

A sensible take, because it’s largely the same as mine :haha:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Ramsdale 8 - You wonder what it could have been if he hadn’t made so many saves


White 5 - Decent goal line clearance at 1-0 otherwise ineffective


Holding 4. Not his fault but when you play him in a system like ours against Man City he will be badly exposed. Given him a 4 because he scored


Gabriel 5 - Couldn’t do much but has suffered without a decent centre back partner


Zinchenko 3 - Embarassing



Partey 5 - Badly shown up last night, dispossessed constantly and isolated



Xhaka 4 - His usual dawdling



Odegaard 3 - For all the good performances he’s put in, doesn’t turn up in important away games


Martinelli 4 - Isolated as per usual


Jesus 4- Did he play because don’t remember seeing him


Saka 4 - As much penetration as a marshmallow phallus



Jorginho 6
Trossard 6
Nelson 6

Nketiah 4
Smith Rowe 4


Well this was largely what we expected wasn’t it?. We know we were up against it because of how Rampant city were, but what rankles is how easy it was for them. Arteta like last season blames the players saying they have to look at themselves in the mirror when he has set them up to fail. This was a team that never believed it wasn’t going to get a pasting.
The parallels between last season and now are astonishing, when adversity hits we hit the wall because the coach trusts certain players too much and certain players not enough.
If we recruit well in central midfield in the summer I believe we will have a very good squad, but it’s one that the coach needs to utilise more.
Saka has played too many games this season, at times he has been brilliant but recently not so good and I don’t believe it would harm him to sit out a few games, he’s a decent lad with strong self belief but without being arrogant with it
We shouldn’t need to sweat on the fitness of William Saliba or Thomas Partey the way we have. We don’t need to play an inverted left back, it made no difference for us in midfield last night.

Arteta for me is a slow learner because of his total self belief, he’s built a team that has excelled this season but if it crumbles when the obstacles emerge it will have been for nothing.

As I said last night, he has earned the right to another season but it does not erase the doubts I have about him especially as the same mistakes have been present and seemingly not addressed.

Next season will be even harder than this one, city are going no where and on top of that United and Newcastle will be much stronger. That plus champions league….if Arteta cannot adapt and continue our progress then it will be time to part ways

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:gp:

I agree with almost every word of this post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

:gp:

A sensible take, because it’s largely the same as mine :haha:

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;)

Dear old Piers Morgan claiming the difference between City and Arsenal is the quality of Pep Guardiola

Not to defend Arteta, but Guardiola has all the virtues and flaws of Arteta….very similar characters temperamentally and tactically.

The difference is at Arsenal, Arteta’s flaws are far more likely to be exposed because you have less room for error than you do if you have top players in every position and a deep squad.

Guardiola has never had to manage a club like Arsenal where he’s having to build a project rather than make improvements to a team that is already full of winners.

If Guardiola was a tactical genius he’d have won the champions league with Man City or Bayern and he hasn’t

And I’m not convinced he will. City show the same emotional flakiness going for the big trophy as we’ve done going for too four and premier league.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KSE Comedy Club

However, being so many points clear for most of the season, having our destiny in our hands and then throwing it all away in the same manner we seem to do every season is a bit different.

I feel completely let down now, and us finishing second just seems like a loser mentality to me.

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Well, I think that's fair. I mean, we were 8 points clear. But since that City have P13 W11 D1 L1.
We have certainly dropped points where we shouldn't have. But don't all teams do that in every season?
We've also picked up points in games where other seasons we'd have dropped them.
Overall it's been as much City being a relentless machine as us collapsing. The two head to heads have shown the gap between the sides.
They have some of the best players in the league and they can bring players off the bench who would walk into our team.

I am disappointed because there were a couple of moments in the season where I thought the title was possible. But, overall, there's no disgrace in losing the title to City. They're just at a different level to us. And we all know how they got there. Fuck them.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Well, I think that's fair. I mean, we were 8 points clear. But since that City have P13 W11 D1 L1.
We have certainly dropped points where we shouldn't have. But don't all teams do that in every season?
We've also picked up points in games where other seasons we'd have dropped them.
Overall it's been as much City being a relentless machine as us collapsing. The two head to heads have shown the gap between the sides.
They have some of the best players in the league and they can bring players off the bench who would walk into our team.

I am disappointed because there were a couple of moments in the season where I thought the title was possible. But, overall, there's no disgrace in losing the title to City. They're just at a different level to us. And we all know how they got there. Fuck them.

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There’s also the fact that in none of our five league titles did we go four games without winning

Two (three at most) tends to be the maximum you can afford and this is even without City

Liverpool I think have the excuse of putting their hands up and saying “what can you do?”. It’s an excuse I don’t think we have going by results this month.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by selassie

I expected us to get a beating last night, it was a non-contest, we were defeated before a ball was even kicked. Our form and general confidence has pretty much gone and the team we are seeing now is performing like the Arsenal of last season. Arteta certainly has a part to play in this, he is just repeating the same things now with the line up of the team and the tactics, he is expecting to see different results which clearly isn't happening. This team even with everybody fully fit is not good enough to go to City and win, especially a City who are now in top form.

City are great and all that but we have made it very easy for them with our recent form, we have dropped points in unexpected places and have performed way below the level we maintained earlier this season, our form nosedived from the Liverpool game onwards.

Despite the above, it has been a successful season in terms of my personal expectations of the team / squad. To maintain this standard going into next season with the added bonus or headache of CL! We need to invest in real quality, as others have said, 2 CM's, a CB that is good enough to properly challenge for a starting place and possibly a LB if Tierney goes. The squad as it stands is clearly not strong enough to mount a challenge next season in PL and CL, we have to buy ready made players like Rice, Caicedo if we want to maintain this standard going forward.

P.S. Agree with what others have said about Arteta use of the squad, it's become a bit of an issue now, changes most certainly should be made for Chelsea, especially offensively where you could argue 2 of the 3 starting players (Saka and Jesus /or Martinelli) could and should be rotated with the likes of Trossard and Nelson. I would also rotate Jorginho with Partey, Partey has been really bad in this run-in.

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Again - an excellent post. And the analysis of Arteta's big weak spot in this thread is spot on. It's so disppointing that we 'armchair' analysts can see that the manager's bullish perseverence with a system that the players have lost some confidence in; is not suited to every single game and has been worked out by other teams over the course of the season - not to mention unsuited for second choice players - but the manager refuses to accept this and change things up. It's also self-defeating that he insists on playing his 'favourites' while potentially able back ups who might at least add a little variety are discounted as starters.


What I would say is that last nigtht was not a time to suddenly change things. West Ham away and Southampton at home should have been used to tweak the system to see whether more protection could have been given for Holding - alternatively leave him out (eg Zinchenko at RB; White at CB and Tierney at LB, and Jorginho alongside Partey) but this opportunity went begging.


We saw this 2 seasons ago - when we started to look so rigid and ineffective and ball progression to our forwards dried up. And we are seeing it again now - albeit with a system that has served us well until it really counted. The players last night need to have a look at themselves, but our collective loss of confidence is not just down to 3 disappointing draws - its the players realising that our set up is flawed and lookign a bit tired. Arteta's refusal to change things up looks passive and fearful, and if our players look scared - which they did last night - this has to a degree been transmitted by Arteta.


One final point. If ever we wanted evidence last night as to why Citeh sold us Jesus and Zinchenko - it was there last night in neon lights. Its lamentable that these so-called 'winners' that were bought to take our team to the next level went hiding last night. The real question is not their talent (albeit that Jesus is showing that he is not a reliable goal scorer), but their mentality. And that is a worry for sure.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

There’s also the fact that in none of our five league titles did we go four games without winning

Two (three at most) tends to be the maximum you can afford and this is even without City

Liverpool I think have the excuse of putting their hands up and saying “what can you do?”. It’s an excuse I don’t think we have going by results this month.

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Agreed. Twice hitting 90+ points and not winning it. That’s rough. At no point during those seasons did Liverpool enter a funk like we find ourselves in now. They also gave City a torrid time in the head to heads.

City are a machine but we haven’t covered ourselves in glory here. The “what can you do?” stance lost its credence when we threw away the lead at West Ham and followed that up with a total mess of a performance against the team bottom of the league. What else could we have done? A lot more, actually.

We’ve got 5 games left and the absolute bare minimum aim now is to ensure it isn’t a procession for City. If we stumble through these games and City win it by a big margin that would be hugely disappointing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

There’s also the fact that in none of our five league titles did we go four games without winning

Two (three at most) tends to be the maximum you can afford and this is even without City

Liverpool I think have the excuse of putting their hands up and saying “what can you do?”. It’s an excuse I don’t think we have going by results this month.

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I kind of agree with you both, hear me out!

I like Letters have been saying for a while that for us to maintain this title push we need to be near perfect because City are machine like at this point in the season. Their have been numerous reasons why we have fallen short, City's recent form being one of them, but we certainly haven't helped ourselves over the past 4 games. It is why I am starting to lean towards the middle and acknowledge that we have done as much damage ourselves in this title push. When I say damage, i mean some of Arteta's game management, starting XI's, use of the squad, the players mentality, all that kind of stuff.

I agree with what you are saying about Liverpool too, their recent title pushes were near flawless and they looked every bit as good as City for multiple seasons, we at present don't and I can accept that if we do everything in our power to maintain and improve the current group and standard. I would like to think we are in the early stages of this improvement of Arsenal.

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Originally Posted by IBK

Again - an excellent post. And the analysis of Arteta's big weak spot in this thread is spot on. It's so disppointing that we 'armchair' analysts can see that the manager's bullish perseverence with a system that the players have lost some confidence in; is not suited to every single game and has been worked out by other teams over the course of the season - not to mention unsuited for second choice players - but the manager refuses to accept this and change things up. It's also self-defeating that he insists on playing his 'favourites' while potentially able back ups who might at least add a little variety are discounted as starters.


What I would say is that last nigtht was not a time to suddenly change things. West Ham away and Southampton at home should have been used to tweak the system to see whether more protection could have been given for Holding - alternatively leave him out (eg Zinchenko at RB; White at CB and Tierney at LB, and Jorginho alongside Partey) but this opportunity went begging.


We saw this 2 seasons ago - when we started to look so rigid and ineffective and ball progression to our forwards dried up. And we are seeing it again now - albeit with a system that has served us well until it really counted. The players last night need to have a look at themselves, but our collective loss of confidence is not just down to 3 disappointing draws - its the players realising that our set up is flawed and lookign a bit tired. Arteta's refusal to change things up looks passive and fearful, and if our players look scared - which they did last night - this has to a degree been transmitted by Arteta.


One final point. If ever we wanted evidence last night as to why Citeh sold us Jesus and Zinchenko - it was there last night in neon lights. Its lamentable that these so-called 'winners' that were bought to take our team to the next level went hiding last night. The real question is not their talent (albeit that Jesus is showing that he is not a reliable goal scorer), but their mentality. And that is a worry for sure.

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:gp:

Especially the bit about Jesus and Zinchenko.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

Agreed. Twice hitting 90+ points and not winning it. That’s rough. At no point during those seasons did Liverpool enter a funk like we find ourselves in now. They also gave City a torrid time in the head to heads.

City are a machine but we haven’t covered ourselves in glory here. The “what can you do?” stance lost its credence when we threw away the lead at West Ham and followed that up with a total mess of a performance against the team bottom of the league. What else could we have done? A lot more, actually.

We’ve got 5 games left and the absolute bare minimum aim now is to ensure it isn’t a procession for City. If we stumble through these games and City win it by a big margin that would be hugely disappointing.

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I agree with all of that. City have been relentless, but we have dropped points in games where we shouldn't have and made it easier for City to chase us down than it should have been. I can't help feel City would have caught us in the end anyway, but I agree we've stumbled more than we should have.

Le Grove the Arsenal twitter account which is the biggest “trust the process” gimp is being very scathing of Arteta

States that the greatest weakness last night was the space left for De Bruyne where Holding drops off because it’s not tenable for him to hold the high line that Saliba could and Arteta must have known this would happen but made no attempt to address it

Amazing reading some of the posts on here and other places.

Partey is taking plenty of criticism, and rightly so, as he's been below his usual standard for a while but not one person has mentioned the complete disappearance of Xhaka.

He touched the ball twice, I think in the first half. I've had a wee look for actual stats on this but no joy. I'm happy to be corrected but won't be far off. For a CM that is unforgivable. His first, and literally only meaningful, touch came on the 47th minute with a poor shot. The next time he was involved was an altercation with Haaland. He was then taken off.

I'm all for attributing responsibility (blame) to players like Partey but where's the balance here? I've highlighted the nonsensical standards players are held to on here before but I genuinely think Xhaka's performance last night was the worst I've ever seen from him. And, as we all know, that's a huge claim about someone who has been putting in woeful performances for the best part of a decade.

Partey was exposed badly last night. Let's call it out. But we need to also call out the mitigating circumstances. He was a lone midfielder against a team with 4 CMs, ffs.

Ramsdale should've saved the first goal anaw. That was just poor keeping from him. He's been terrible lately, despite a couple of decent saves that you'd expect any decent keeper to make.

Jesus has been absolutely shite anaw. He seems to be everywhere except where a striker should be. I've thought since we signed him that he thinks he a little bigger than the club, tbh.

I think most of us accept Xhaka is a bum who needs upgrading on.

Players like Partey get singled out because they’re our go-to guys. He’s been one of the key factors in why we’ve been at the top of the league, if we were going to get over the line he was one guy we needed to be at the top of his game.

The only players who’ve been worth a dime recently are Martinelli and Ramsdale, minus that pathetic error against Southampton. We’ve conceded 11 goals in 4 games and it could have been so much worse without his saves.

Ben White was absolutely appalling, again. One great block doesn't detract from giving the ball away at least 5 or 6 times (something he has a real problem with) and being beaten countless times by Grealish... who'll beat most people most times, in fairness, but it was all a little too easy against White. He seems to have a certain Saka like immunity from criticism among arsenal fans, pundits and press though. He's a terrible player.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

I think most of us accept Xhaka is a bum who needs upgrading on.

Players like Partey get singled out because they’re our go-to guys. He’s been one of the key factors in why we’ve been at the top of the league, if we were going to get over the line he was one guy we needed to be at the top of his game.

The only players who’ve been worth a dime recently are Martinelli and Ramsdale, minus that pathetic error against Southampton. We’ve conceded 11 goals in 4 games and it could have been so much worse without his saves.

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I've no real issue with that but surely people recognize that a huge factor in Partey's performance was that he was completely over run due to his partner going AWOL. Xhaka done nothing defensively, no tracking, tackling or positioning and when we had the ball literally hid, reducing the options to further up the field, which is very difficult against Man City.

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Originally Posted by mandela8

Ramsdale should've saved the first goal anaw.

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Aye. I thought that tbf.
It was well placed but I think he should have saved it.

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Originally Posted by mandela8

Amazing reading some of the posts on here and other places.

Partey is taking plenty of criticism, and rightly so, as he's been below his usual standard for a while but not one person has mentioned the complete disappearance of Xhaka.

He touched the ball twice, I think in the first half. I've had a wee look for actual stats on this but no joy. I'm happy to be corrected but won't be far off. For a CM that is unforgivable. His first, and literally only meaningful, touch came on the 47th minute with a poor shot. The next time he was involved was an altercation with Haaland. He was then taken off.

I'm all for attributing responsibility (blame) to players like Partey but where's the balance here? I've highlighted the nonsensical standards players are held to on here before but I genuinely think Xhaka's performance last night was the worst I've ever seen from him. And, as we all know, that's a huge claim about someone who has been putting in woeful performances for the best part of a decade.

Partey was exposed badly last night. Let's call it out. But we need to also call out the mitigating circumstances. He was a lone midfielder against a team with 4 CMs, ffs.

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At the risk of replying to you in a civil way. Isn’t this more a case of expectation?

Partey has set some high standards for himself this season and if he falls below them he gets criticised. Many of us myself included have been outspoken critics of Xhaka for as long as the fucker has been at the club. His lack of positional discipline, his unwillingness to track back most times, his dawdling, his stupid blind passing, his giving the ball away in dangerous areas. No one is in the least bit surprised when he does it. By his shoddy standards he’s had a good season because he’s been played in a more advanced role and therefore is less required to roll his sleeves up.

But that he was shit last night? Can barely raise my eyebrows to that fact

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Originally Posted by mandela8

Ben White was absolutely appalling, again. One great block doesn't detract from giving the ball away at least 5 or 6 times (something he has a real problem with) and being beaten countless times by Grealish... who'll beat most people most times, in fairness, but it was all a little too easy against White. He seems to have a certain Saka like immunity from criticism among arsenal fans, pundits and press though. He's a terrible player.

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Really he’s not a right back, he’s done ok in that role but it’s not his natural position but because Captain Black doesn’t get the art of shuffling the pack his three best centre backs have to play each week but one in a role unfamiliar to him

White I think on the whole has had a good season but I don’t think he’s been beyond criticism. He was made to look silly by Grealish and he was made to look silly against Rashford earlier in the season.

Not a terrible player at all, he’s clearly the most comfortable on the ball of all our defenders. But yeah he was shit last night but who wasn’t.

I think with the league now over and second place pretty secure players like Kiwior, Viera, ESR and Nelson should see extended playing time/starts.

I love Holding but we all know his limitations. I think Kiwior is more Gabriel cover but I don't buy this left/right side CB nonsense. Just let the guy play somewhere.

Viera has been a huge disappointment and the only mitigation (excuse) left is he hasn't had a run of games which these technical players tend to need to find their rhythm.

ESR just needs to play.

Nelson has surprised me and looks really good every time I see him. He's everything Saka is not. Direct, getting to the line and looks to cross or shoot most of his possessions.

I'd love to see more of Tierney, obviously, but not if he's being asked to invert. Just not his game.

Yeah I think the general consensus here is that we absolutely should change things up, and get some playing time for those like Kiwior, Smith Rowe, Nelson, Jorginho and Trossard.

Next season we are going to need to rotate which means our squad needs games. And there are players whatever the view on how good they are who probably need to sit out a few games.

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Originally Posted by IBK

One final point. If ever we wanted evidence last night as to why Citeh sold us Jesus and Zinchenko - it was there last night in neon lights. Its lamentable that these so-called 'winners' that were bought to take our team to the next level went hiding last night. The real question is not their talent (albeit that Jesus is showing that he is not a reliable goal scorer), but their mentality. And that is a worry for sure.

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I said that during the game about Pep, he sold us a couple of players he knew were flawed.

That said, I think Jesus was the single biggest reason we made such a good start to the season, he played with a lot of energy and positivity and the team reacted to it.

But he's starting to wear a bit thin now, partly of course because Arteta doesn't rotate him or anyone else if they're fit.

As for Zinchenko, I've tried to buy into this inverted LB stuff but:

a) it shouldn't be a tactic for every game againat every different side

b) Zinchenko is a little idiot who often gives the ball away, very rarely wins the ball and often slows our play down

C) Tierney shouldn't be made to play in that role, he should be allowed to play to his strengths

Overall I'd say that, because Zinchenko's presence has both encouraged Arteta to endlessly play that same dumb system and because he's not good enough, he's possibly our worst signing since Mustafi

If Toney didn’t have a ban looming I would definitely suggest trying to sign him. Watkins would also be a good alternative.

We need another source of goals up front. Jesus is a busy body and can make things happen around him but he’s rarely going to be the difference maker. Martinelli is our best forward because he’s a little more selfish and has a nastiness about him. We need a bit more of that from everyone.

Another striker in a different mould would also help change things up in a game when things aren’t working out. Something we lack the ability to do at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Mac76

I said that during the game about Pep, he sold us a couple of players he knew were flawed.

That said, I think Jesus was the single biggest reason we made such a good start to the season, he played with a lot of energy and positivity and the team reacted to it.

But he's starting to wear a bit thin now, partly of course because Arteta doesn't rotate him or anyone else if they're fit.

As for Zinchenko, I've tried to buy into this inverted LB stuff but:

a) it shouldn't be a tactic for every game againat every different side

b) Zinchenko is a little idiot who often gives the ball away, very rarely wins the ball and often slows our play down

Overall I'd say that, both because his presence has encouraged Arteta to endlessly play that same dumb system and because he's not good enough, he's possibly our worst signing since Mustafi

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I’d argue that Mustafi wasn’t even our worst signing that summer given how we’ve persisted with Xhaka

Mustafi was an interesting one. The guy was a ticking time bomb of excrement…you could play him for a few games and get reasonable solid defensive performances out of him, and then boom and the team are covered in faeces.

But he wasn’t someone who we persisted with, Arteta for all his flaws got rid quite quickly

Zinchenko is fine against certain teams but should never have been our first choice left back and when we signed him I never assumed he would be

I’ve said for ages he’s the equivalent of a left field IPA, a footballer for hipsters

Jesus? Totally anonymous yesterday and I think it’s not unfair to point out that his overall goal contribution even given his injury has been modest to put it generously. I think we need a Giroud type player in the squad to mix it up a bit….I’m still of the view that, that Serbian maniac Mitrovic would be an excellent signing.

But I still like him, he causes defenders to poo themselves but we need someone who gives us more options such as set pieces etc (how many headed goals have we scored this season for instance?)

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

If Toney didn’t have a ban looming I would definitely suggest trying to sign him. Watkins would also be a good alternative.

We need another source of goals up front. Jesus is a busy body and can make things happen around him but he’s rarely going to be the difference maker. Martinelli is our best forward because he’s a little more selfish and has a nastiness about him. We need a bit more of that from everyone.

Another striker in a different mould would also help change things up in a game when things aren’t working out. Something we lack the ability to do at the moment.

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Toney would be decent, but Ollie Watkins is too similar to what we already have. If we want a striker like that…why not just keep Balogun

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Originally Posted by Letters

. And we all know how they got there. Fuck them.

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Well yes, that goes without saying tbh!

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Originally Posted by mandela8

Amazing reading some of the posts on here and other places.

Partey is taking plenty of criticism, and rightly so, as he's been below his usual standard for a while but not one person has mentioned the complete disappearance of Xhaka.

He touched the ball twice, I think in the first half. I've had a wee look for actual stats on this but no joy. I'm happy to be corrected but won't be far off. For a CM that is unforgivable. His first, and literally only meaningful, touch came on the 47th minute with a poor shot. The next time he was involved was an altercation with Haaland. He was then taken off.

I'm all for attributing responsibility (blame) to players like Partey but where's the balance here? I've highlighted the nonsensical standards players are held to on here before but I genuinely think Xhaka's performance last night was the worst I've ever seen from him. And, as we all know, that's a huge claim about someone who has been putting in woeful performances for the best part of a decade.

Partey was exposed badly last night. Let's call it out. But we need to also call out the mitigating circumstances. He was a lone midfielder against a team with 4 CMs, ffs.

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Agree with the (slight) mitigation for Partey in general because (as you point out) he is expected to do the job of 2 players in MF and also (I think) being asked to try to protect Holding. That said he not Holdingwas at fault for their first goal and generally seemed incapable of tracking back all night.


But I think it's also unfair to single out Xhaka. Your criticism is true for all of our 'forward' players. City stifled all service beyond the half way line, and not a single one of our players performed well last night. Like many others, Xhaka is a cog in a machine that was working well until a few matches ago. Our dire performance last night was not down to any single player - it was a collective scared performance where as a team we showed no confidence whatsoever and were beaten before Citeh kicked a ball.


I agree with you emphatically that some of our back up players like Trossard, Jorginho and Nelson deserve to be given starts. They out-performed our so-called first teamers when they came on. I feel sorry also for Nketiah. I was wondering what our win percentage is since the WC with him playing and when Jesus has and (while I am ready to stand corrected), it would not surprise me if it's better with Eddie. Jesus for me is emblematic of Arteta's rigid mindset. The manager has failed to change a system to which Jesus is considered integral, and in the limited opportunities he has had recently, Eddie is expected to be like for like - which he simply isn't. I would like Eddie to be given a chance as starter in a system tewaked to play to his strengths as a box finisher. But no - Jesus plays - more for his supposed 'win at all costs' mentality than his striking ability, and this hasn;t worked recently.


The best teams evolve and their managers (including Pep) take risks in trying something new to keep the opposition on their toes. Yet again, lately we have become predictable, too relient on players whose form is low or who have simply been run into the ground and are on fumes. You don't improve confidence by playing a ludicrously high line when your CB who has done most to allow this previously is out, and your LB is not a LB. You create instablity and panic - and this has affected our whole team.

All this consensus sickens me :haha:

I think the one area we have consensus around is that of all the players that deserves a start it is Reiss Nelson. Never rated him personally, felt he wasn’t strong enough physically but honestly don’t think that’s a problem now. This is a player who for me has tried everything to merit being selected, absolutely fantastic impact substitute and hungry as hell.

Wasn’t particularly fussed if we kept him or not, but now I’m going to put my hands up and say Mac76 was right….I think it’s important we keep him. I don’t see him as necessarily someone who will always start games but I certainly wouldn’t be worried to see him in the starting line up whoever we were playing and I think it will be good for Saka to have that competition.

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Originally Posted by IBK

Agree with the (slight) mitigation for Partey in general because (as you point out) he is expected to do the job of 2 players in MF and also (I think) being asked to try to protect Holding. That said he not Holdingwas at fault for their first goal and generally seemed incapable of tracking back all night.


But I think it's also unfair to single out Xhaka. Your criticism is true for all of our 'forward' players. City stifled all service beyond the half way line, and not a single one of our players performed well last night. Like many others, Xhaka is a cog in a machine that was working well until a few matches ago. Our dire performance last night was not down to any single player - it was a collective scared performance where as a team we showed no confidence whatsoever and were beaten before Citeh kicked a ball.


I agree with you emphatically that some of our back up players like Trossard, Jorginho and Nelson deserve to be given starts. They out-performed our so-called first teamers when they came on. I feel sorry also for Nketiah. I was wondering what our win percentage is since the WC with him playing and when Jesus has and (while I am ready to stand corrected), it would not surprise me if it's better with Eddie. Jesus for me is emblematic of Arteta's rigid mindset. The manager has failed to change a system to which Jesus is considered integral, and in the limited opportunities he has had recently, Eddie is expected to be like for like - which he simply isn't. I would like Eddie to be given a chance as starter in a system tewaked to play to his strengths as a box finisher. But no - Jesus plays - more for his supposed 'win at all costs' mentality than his striking ability, and this hasn;t worked recently.


The best teams evolve and their managers (including Pep) take risks in trying something new to keep the opposition on their toes. Yet again, lately we have become predictable, too relient on players whose form is low or who have simply been run into the ground and are on fumes. You don't improve confidence by playing a ludicrously high line when your CB who has done most to allow this previously is out, and your LB is not a LB. You create instablity and panic - and this has affected our whole team.

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Aye, solid points, man. I think Xhaka deserves extra criticism though. He's a CM, not an attacker, so the isolation/lack of service doesn't cut it for me. I'm not being hyperbolic, that is the single worst performance I've seen from Xhaka. Even when playing poorly a CM can put a foot in or summin and for all the criticism of Partey, he did that at least, with a number of tackles and fouls.

Completely agree on Jesus. I just don't see it. Clearly talented but I don't see how he improves this team/system. Apparently he wanted to be a striker at city. Well why the fuck is he never in the box? Probably because he knows how poor his finishing is. I'd happily see him out on RW and a more typical striker in the middle.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

If Toney didn’t have a ban looming I would definitely suggest trying to sign him. Watkins would also be a good alternative.

We need another source of goals up front. Jesus is a busy body and can make things happen around him but he’s rarely going to be the difference maker. Martinelli is our best forward because he’s a little more selfish and has a nastiness about him. We need a bit more of that from everyone.

Another striker in a different mould would also help change things up in a game when things aren’t working out. Something we lack the ability to do at the moment.

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Toney would be great, man. I still like Vlahovic though. Not sure how realistic he is but apparently not been great at Juve. He can be a real focal point type striker, the type others can really play off. That's the type of striker I'd like. We have enough mobility around him...but that's personal preference. Bare minimum is someone I think will take a chance...and I never think Jesus will do that, tbh.

I'd sell one or both of Balagun and Nketiah, if there's offers there. Harsh on Balagun but he's not a player we'd go out and buy, imo.