Arsenal 1-1 Citeh (4-1 Penalties) player ratings and match reaction

Ramsdale 7.5 - If being hyper critical was being a little bit too casual with the ball at his feet first half, but his instinctive positioning and saves kept us in the game. Rodri’s penalty wasn’t great, but you still have to save them and he did.


White 7 - Started well but faded a bit, and was pressed off the ball too easily


Saliba 7.5 - Showed some of his best today, where as previously not looked fully fit


Gabriel 7 - Solid as per usual


Timber 8 - Like Saliba has a lot of defensive maturity for a player so young, would like him to maybe get forward more but he’s a defender first and foremost and he’s good at that


Rice 7 - Grew into the game, not sure the understanding with Partey or Odegaard is quite there yet but he rolls his sleeves up


Partey 7.5 - Still makes the odd careless pass but he’s shown in pre-season that he’s still important to us


Odegaard 6.5 - Rather low key, still trying the thread the ball through the eye of the needle when he might be better driving forward


Martinelli 6 - Looks a bit half cooked at the moment


Saka 6.5 - Not quite at his best, but still got forward ok. Wenger was right though, he needs to work on using his right foot more


Havertz 7 - I actually think neither of his chances were sitters. The ball was behind him for the first one so he had to get himself set before shooting, maybe could have done with more power with the second but he put himself about today



Subs:


Trossard 7 - when you’re in need of a goal, you’ll take a pinball deflection


Tierney 6 - could argue that he could have done better to prevent the ball coming back to Palmer but just came on.


Vieira 6.5 - Can’t say I noticed him that much, super penalty though absolutely smashed into the roof of the net


Nketiah 5 - I didn’t know he’d come on


Smith-Rowe 5 - Same as Nketiah



So wasn’t the best performance in the world, certainly not from an attacking perspective but the effort and the will to not be beaten was there. I think defensively we put in a good shift. I just think the link between defence and attack isn’t quite there especially with Rice and Partey in central midfield (even though objectively they are our best options)

Feels to me that a few players need to play themselves into form (Martinelli especially, but Odegaard and possibly Kai Havertz too). The effort can’t be faulted but the end product isn’t quite there. And that’s a little concerning given there are no easy games in the premier league and I don’t expect forest or palace to be an exception to that.

I think if we are going to challenge we are going to have to grind some results out until the confidence comes

In general I agree with your ratings today.

I think if we start the same team we started today against Forest, and wait till late to make subs, we'll get a 0-0 draw.

In fact part of me is seriously considering putting some money on that scoreline as Arteta is unlikely to change a "winning" team.

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

In general I agree with your ratings today.

I think if we start the same team we started today against Forest, and wait till late to make subs, we'll get a 0-0 draw.

In fact part of me is seriously considering putting some money on that scoreline as Arteta is unlikely to change a "winning" team.

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1-1 would be a better scoreline to put money on, we don’t get many 0-0 draws and we don’t get many clean sheets at home

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Nketiah 5 - I didn’t know he’d come on

Smith-Rowe 5 - Same as Nketiah

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The two of them are a complete waste of space IMO and we'll regret not selling them both this summer

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Originally Posted by Mac76

The two of them are a complete waste of space IMO and we'll regret not selling them both this summer

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Smith Rowe could potentially play in the no8 role. I think the downside of Rice and Partey together is that it stifles our attacking options (good option to have when playing the big sides though). Would sooner get rid of Vieira

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Smith Rowe could potentially play in the no8 role. I think the downside of Rice and Partey together is that it stifles our attacking options (good option to have when playing the big sides though). Would sooner get rid of Vieira

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I think we need to accept ESR's not up to it and sell while people think he's worth buying

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Originally Posted by Mac76

I think we need to accept ESR's not up to it and sell while people think he's worth buying

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If we sell him we would probably need to sign someone else and I don’t really see the point of trying to integrate more players into the squad. I’d give him enough game time that either he does show his value of two years ago or is someone we can move on in January or next summer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Smith Rowe could potentially play in the no8 role. I think the downside of Rice and Partey together is that it stifles our attacking options (good option to have when playing the big sides though). Would sooner get rid of Vieira

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I agree

Viera doesn't strike me as the kind of player that can make it playing for most sides in the EPL, Smith Rowe is a far more useful option for us IMO.

However, my preference would still be to buy a more direct and physical player, to give us another dimension. I've said his name a few times so no need to repeat it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

If we sell him we would probably need to sign someone else and I don’t really see the point of trying to integrate more players into the squad. I’d give him enough game time that either he does show his value of two years ago or is someone we can move on in January or next summer

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Why get a replacement for a player who contributes nothing?

And if we do for some bizarre reason want to, then i'll do it for much less than he gets paid - I can trundle around the pitch like an overweight chipmunk as well as the next man

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

I agree

Viera doesn't strike me as the kind of player that can make it playing for most sides in the EPL, Smith Rowe is a far more useful option for us IMO.

However, my preference would still be to buy a more direct and physical player, to give us another dimension. I've said his name a few times so no need to repeat it

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Have you? Kudus? I thought he was a winger. Also isn’t he going to Brighton

Vieira looks a good stand in for Saka judging by the Monaco game, friendly or not, he had a better performance in that match than i've seen ESR put in for a very long time

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Have you? Kudus? I thought he was a winger. Also isn’t he going to Brighton

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Yeah Kudus, or his type.

And yeah he can play on the wing or behind the attackers centrally.

I mean like I've said before I'd like something very different from Odegaard and all the other slow technical players we have; I want someone a bit selfish who has the power and ability to create something all on his own. A bit like an Alexis kind of player; or what Pepe was originally bought to do for us.

The thing is, there is a huge gap behind our attackers to exploit
for goals and we're wasting it if you ask me.

I think the issue personally is more linking defence and attack, and a no8 is required for that. For me the ideal player was Youri Tielemans but he’s now at Aston Villa.

Can Smith Rowe drop deeper and play that role? Not from what I’ve seen but I’ve only ever seen him try to play that role once

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I think the issue personally is more linking defence and attack, and a no8 is required for that. For me the ideal player was Youri Tielemans but he’s now at Aston Villa.

Can Smith Rowe drop deeper and play that role? Not from what I’ve seen but I’ve only ever seen him try to play that role once

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Then we differ.

Our plan B shouldn't be someone looking to find the perfect pass for heavily marked attackers, I'd prefer a player confident in making the difference himself from the middle i.e. able to exploit space and score from there, a bit like what Stevie G and Lampard did for their clubs but in a different way.

Our last few games show we can create and eventually get that final pass through the eye of the needle, but our attackers are not potent... so typically we need 3-4 shots on goal to score.

Of all the players we have currently that Arteta likes, ( and I'm excluding Odegaard who obviously prefers passing the buck than going for it himself), only Smith Rowe comes close to looking like that kind of player, but he's clearly short on confidence which it seems will take quite a while to build back up.

I think the problem is more getting the ball to the front four in a timely fashion. As much as I don’t like Xhaka, it was clear that him playing the no 8 role along with playing Zinchenko as the extra man in midfield allowed more space for the front four to operate in as we were able to get at the opposition who might not have had time to get back and effect a deep block or would not be tactically in the right shape.

Of course the downside to this is defensive vulnerability and thus why we scored a hell of a lot of goals at home (53 in 19) but only kept four clean sheets at home all season, so really what we want is to get the defensive-attacking balance right and that starts and ends (in my view) in central midfield.

In all honesty I don’t even disagree with you about adding variety to our attack but I see it as a separate issue entirely, the one thing we benefit from with a player with Jesus is a player who is good at taking on the deep block because his runs tend to suck players in to him and then he is able to play in someone in space and where he dropped off last season after coming back from injury was that he was not looking so much to do this, and we were far more reliant on Odegaard breaking teams down.

So again I’m not against your view that we need someone quicker and more direct, but I also think that will be less effective if the opposition players can get back before we transition defence into attack.

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

( and I'm excluding Odegaard who obviously prefers passing the buck than going for it himself)

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Oh absolutely, after all it's not he was our joint top scorer last season or anything is it :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Oh absolutely, after all it's not he was our joint top scorer last season or anything is it :rolleyes:

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Are you saying this negates the observation that when Captain Marvel has an opportunity to either shoot/finish or pass, he goes for the latter?

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

Are you saying this negates the observation that when Captain Marvel has an opportunity to either shoot/finish or pass, he goes for the latter?

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Er, yes...?

Otherwise how does he score 15 PL goals?

Earlier on when he joined us he did pass the buck a bit, but last season he started taking responsibility and going for goal

EDIT: oh and ignore this next bit, i thought i was talking to HCZ... :getcoat:

You were obviously too busy watching and rewatching 'All or Nothing' in forensic detail to keep up with Arsenal matches - that would explain your ludicrously low player ratings at least

:popcorn:


Good….Good. Let the Hate flow through you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

:popcorn:


Good….Good. Let the Hate flow through you

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:) I see you've caved and are trying the 'well of course i'm just trying to wind you up' routine

Me trying to wing you up? No I’m just seeing you quarrel with the other fella and appreciating what it is to be a spectator.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mac76

:) I see you've caved and are trying the 'well of course i'm just trying to wind you up' routine

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Ah my mistake i thought it was you that posted his last reply... :lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Ah my mistake i thought it was you that posted his last reply... :lol:

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I did wonder what the whole ludicrously low player rating thing was about :haha:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I did wonder what the whole ludicrously low player rating thing was about :haha:

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It's a shame, i was quite pleased with that whole last part of my reply :lol:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mac76

Er, yes...?

Otherwise how does he score 15 PL goals?

Earlier on when he joined us he did pass the buck a bit, but last season he started taking responsibility and going for goal

EDIT: oh and ignore this next bit, i thought i was talking to HCZ... :getcoat:

You were obviously too busy watching and rewatching 'All or Nothing' in forensic detail to keep up with Arsenal matches - that would explain your ludicrously low player ratings at least

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My point earlier was that what I said is not mutually exclusive to him scoring 15 or even 30 goals i.e. most of the goals were situations he is left with little option but to strike the ball (no pass to be found).

Anyway your reply did make me go through a quick review of his goals from last season on youtube, and if I'm being honest, in a few of them he had the opportunity to pass, but made the right decision.

So I might concede a bit to your point that he improved a lot last season by taking ownership .

Though my brief visit to YouTube also showed me why that opinion was formed and why I'm still reluctant to trust him when faced with options.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CM356r...VzIHNob290aW5n

It’s possible that in the absence of Jesus either through injury or as an effective force for trying to commit defenders that Odegaard chose to take things on more himself, a lot of his goals as I remember from last season were from outside the box (Newcastle, Tottenham etc)

I do think you’re right in that he very much used to try and lay on chances for others rather than take them on himself and I hope he doesn’t revert to type

Still though better than Vieira who lays on passes for others to lay on for other people

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

It’s possible that in the absence of Jesus either through injury or as an effective force for trying to commit defenders that Odegaard chose to take things on more himself, a lot of his goals as I remember from last season were from outside the box (Newcastle, Tottenham etc)

I do think you’re right in that he very much used to try and lay on chances for others rather than take them on himself and I hope he doesn’t revert to type

Still though better than Vieira who lays on passes for others to lay on for other people

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Vieira was very good in the Monaco game, i think being on the right suited him and it means we can alternate him with Saka a decent amount*

*assuming Arteta doesn't run Saka into the ground as usual**

**which i admit is a pretty big assumption

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

Still though better than Vieira who lays on passes for others to lay on for other people

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:lol: Funny, but true.

@Mac

Viera is a terrible substitute for Saka, totally useless in making things happen on the wing unless he's up against a defender who really doesn't know his calling.

I think Viera is built to play behind a striker, but yeah, with the way we play currently I'd take Odegaard over him a 1001 times.