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The stats say it all. 74% of the play and 30 shots but still lose the bloody game.
I would agree that we are desperate for a striker, however, we are still trying to walk the ball into the net FFS. SHOOOOOOOOT!
Gutted for Declan Rice, he was desperate to beat them to stop the brain dead Hammer's fans winding him (and us) up.
The whole team were average tonight.
I don’t think it’s just necessarily a striker issue, last season we got very close but the difference was Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard were putting up numbers they’ve never previously been capable of. Now that teams have worked out how to blunt us we don’t really have another way of playing and our danger men are struggling without the space to play in.
The fact that we’ve been so reliant on set pieces as well is a bit of a concern because it’s kind of masked over how weak the forwards have been.
This game was quite sobering I have to say. Arteta has to find a way of getting the goals flowing again from where they should be coming from.
The performance was fine, I don’t think it was that much different from most games.
We were spanking them till it went 1-0 up. But we do struggle for goals - not compared to most teams, but given how much possession we have. 30 shots and zero goals is ludicrous.
As soon as it went 1-0 it was easy for West Ham to sit deep and while they defended well we made it too easy for them, we struggled to stretch them, we move the ball forward too slowly.
We usually get away with it because in most games our quality shows, but with these flaws there are always going to be games where you’re going to get found out.
When City go in to beast mode there are still going to be games where they don’t win, but it’s always just bad luck. There was a game last season, possibly Leicester, where they drew. But looking at the highlights it was ridiculous they didn’t win it, they created so many chances and it was just one of those nights. You get those. But last night wasn’t like that for us. The stats indicate we were dominant, but watching the game we never seriously threatened. The ‘keeper made a few saves but they were mostly routine. We never stretched them or broke with pace. We will be there or thereabouts because we are better than most sides, but it’s difficult to see us winning the title when scoring seems so laboured for us.
I know it is only December, but Saka, Martinelli, Rice and Odegaard look knackered. We need to give ESR a run of games (if he stays fit) and get a couple of players in come January. Who would have thought we would miss Havertz. On to Fulham...COYGQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We missed a player like Havertz only because the manager put out an obnoxious selection and unbalanced the team on purpose. A poor Martinelli, Jesus and Trossard have no business being on the pitch at the same time, it has never worked especially if the 3 are all playing in the same space.... all 3 are to alike and kept running into each other. It was a no brainer that Martinelli should have come off as early as the first half and he should have either pushed Trossard or even Jesus to the right, to finally create some semblance of space.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
We've complained severally about the manager starting favourites no matter how the opposition set up themselves and yesterday was no different. It was just to glaring that the team was unbalanced and non-functional. I didn't want to say anything during the match thread as I wanted to see if Arteta would realise the obvious which is that he needed to get Jesus out of that middle and bring in Eddie ASAP....which would have helped Jesus, who is not a striker by any sense of the word, play better.
But he just kept watching the boring merry-go-round and hoping the West Ham would tire and make a mistake. Then when its as clear as day, he makes the changes in the 70th minute. Poor form from Arteta in all ramifications. I mean any idiot who thinks he can win the league in this modern age by trusting only 15 or so players is obviously some sort of "mad king" (GOT style).
I think the shooting boots were just not there. Martinelli and Trossard were very poor, Jesus tried but not much better. Both the conditions and the fact they scored early played into their hands. We didn’t feel confident playing more directly. I think MO is right that we haven’t adapted to the deep block, I think the absence of Partey and his directness doesn’t help but having players in the team that are massively out of form because of a lack of options doesn’t help.
I think we need to see if we can sell players in January to try and bring in a target man. Because if we don’t, I don’t think it’s just the title that won’t happen (I think we can kiss goodbye to that now, that’s between Liverpool and Man City) but top four as well
Dude! Didn’t you do this last season? Every setback and you were claiming that our Top 4 position was in danger? Calm down!Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
We’re going to finish in the top 3 this year, as will City and Liverpool. No one else is as good as those 3 teams. I think the title race is difficult to call, I’m not sure we can do it but we will be in the mix. I’m starting to lean towards Liverpool but there’s a long way to go and losing Salah for the ACON could hurt them.
We have four spaces for five teams - City, Liverpool, Tottenham, Villa and us. All four of the other teams score more goals than us. And that’s what yesterday was, the goals we conceded were unfortunate….well Mavropanos header was excellent unfortunately for us. But the problem was a failure to score goals. We’ve failed to score more than once in six of our nine away games for instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Ok so if we don’t sign a striker I cannot say comprehensively we won’t finish in the top four, but it’s certainly imperilled. Title was for me unlikely when we failed to beat any of Newcastle, Villa or Liverpool and now it’s over with
I'd agree top 4 isn't settled for us on the basis of yesterday, the others have largely been underperforming and it's probably been flattering us
Yep. I will get slated, but my honest opinion on top 4Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac76
Liverpool
City
Scum
Villa (because of their home record)
The aforementioned have got good players coming back from injury and suspension, sadly.
I await the backlash :(
How did Villa and Spurs get on in the week?Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Neither are credible title contenders. They might score more than us but they both have worse goal differences. So clearly they concede a lot too. Conceding 4 goals at Brighton, being 2-0 up at Old Trafford and losing. They’re both doing well but they’re not credible competitors. They don’t have the squad in depth we do.
Again, I’m pretty sure you were declaring top 4 a doubt after a wobble last season. (Admittedly I can’t find the posts, maybe it was someone else, but you do have a habit of overreacting to results)
Rubbish. We’ve beaten City at home. We’ve drawn at Anfield. If those two are contenders, and they are, then those results tell me we are too. But I agree there are warning signs and if we don’t sign a striker then I agree the title is unlikely. But either way I can’t see us finishing outside the Top 4 because I can’t take Spurs or Villa seriously. A “you score 2, we’ll score 3” approach, while entertaining, is not the way to sustain a title challenge. And you need a squad depth they just don’t have.Quote:
Title was for me unlikely when we failed to beat any of Newcastle, Villa or Liverpool and now it’s over with
I have no concerns over the top 4, it’s only half way so there’s bound to be a few results in it that could swing the table either way. If it’s like this in April then we’ll see.
As for the title, we absolutely do not have enough in attack to win the league. Something needs to change drastically here for us to have a realistic chance.
Yeah, pretty much agree with you and Letters on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Overmars
We'll finish top 4 because we are better than the other sides and just underperforming.
I mean if Arteta hadn't sabotaged one of the best keepers in the league last season and we didn't have to deal with the liability that is Zinchencko...hands down we'd have the best defence in the league.
Our forwards, though they're extremely underperforming are still above average.
Put simply, a quality striker, Partey back, Timber and Tomiyasu recovering and the old Ramsdale between the post....we are better than every team bar Citeh.
How did we get on during the week? Our loss to West Ham means we’ve gone from first to fourth. The fact is the race for the top four is incredibly tight. And as I’ve said the other teams can do something we can’t and that is score goals. If we’d bought a striker instead of needlessly wasting money on Havertz and Rice (yeah he’s played well for us, but he lacks the directness of a Partey which helps the opposition with the deep block).Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
We’ve scored three goals in four games, the title was always unlikely given we’ve spent over 600 million largely in places where we didn’t need to spend money. Teams know how to play against us, so there’s no reason to think top 4 is anyway guaranteed.
For me it’s a dilemma, top 4 will allow us to spend in the summer. But top 4 also guarantees Arteta keeps his job when I think it’s time to move him on. As a lot of people noted that was a Wenger performance on Thursday and we don’t need years more of fruitless Tippity tappity because we don’t have the guts to move on.
And yet we are 2 points off Liverpool and have the exact same record in terms of wins losses and draws as City. The only other team above us are Villa who we have a game in hand over.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Cherry picking a run in which we played Villa away - who must have the best home form in the league, certainly up there - and Liverpool away who are title contenders and where we got a creditable draw. Overall I agree we don’t score enough but that is mitigated somewhat by a good defensive record. Only Liverpool have conceded fewer.Quote:
We’ve scored three goals in four games
If they know how to play against us then why do they keep losing to us? We have lost 3 games but so have City, one of those to us. The thing which makes me believe we’ll finish top 4 is I just haven’t seen 4 better sides than us. Liverpool and City may be, but it’s close. Villa and Spurs aren’t.Quote:
Teams know how to play against us, so there’s no reason to think top 4 is anyway guaranteed.
I’m not completely ruling out the title but I do think our blunt attack will ultimately cost us.
The West Ham performance was concerning, but there are fine lines in football. On another day we get the VAR call to say the ball went out, or one of our early chances goes in and it’s a comfortable win. Feelings change throughout the season, I refuse to overreact to single results. If we drop points today then the alarm bells will start ringing.
We can go back further if you like. 3 defeats in last 9 games, 13 goals scored. 7 of those goals coming in two games. We are struggling to score consistently.
As far as I am concerned, we have thrown away 11 points this season. Both Liverpool and City are used to going on winning runs….the nearest thing we’ve had approaching a winning run is winning four games in a row. All with the exception of one won with a one goal margin.
Sure. You can keep cherry picking. I’ll just look at the league table and see where we actually are.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
And I’ll keep reminding you of how you’ve overreacted to bad results in previous seasons, and your early season doom-mongering which even you have since admitted was premature.
I don’t think we can win the title without a proper goalscorer, but there aren’t 4 better teams than us in this league.
I’ll let you decide whether our 4th place is under threatQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Looking at the table now. From the chance to go 7 points clear of Villa to ending up below a city that hasn't turned up yet isn't a blip - in a game of narrow margins it's game over. There is now zero chance of a title, but that was almost certain when they went into the season without a striker.
I mean on current form we won’t be top 4 that’s for sure but I do think we’re a lot better than what we’ve shown in recent games.
Talk of the title is now a bit laughable though. :lol:
Which part ofQuote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
was unclear?Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
:unsure:
You also went on to sayQuote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Alarm bells should be ringing, against the Ammers we were wasteful but we dominated….we were first to every ball, we were comfortable winning the ball back in the attacking third. Today we were totally passive, second to almost every loose ball. Never did we remotely look like coming back into the game at 2-1.
This isn’t a blip, you’ve even said yourself that we were getting results without playing well. And now the goals have almost all but dried up….this is a three minute warning klaxon
I didn’t see it today but hear we were awful.
When Spurs were flying I felt they’d get found out. I kinda felt we probably would too as it felt like we were getting away with things.
I’ll note that feelings change a lot over time during a season. So maybe in a few more games things will feel different. But it’s not exactly the run that champions are made of. It doesn’t feel like anyone has really got a grip of things this season.
I reckon we will finish top 4, the question is whether that’s really good enough given the money we’ve spent. And leaving us without a proper striker was always a decision Arteta was going to live or die by.
You can either make hay while the sun shines or rest on your laurels because there's no challenge. But the challenge will come for sure, as it always does. And it's hard to go from lazy to committed in short order. Much easier to be committed all along so when your rivals fuck up you are ready to take full advantage. City has given everyone a hand-out. But it won't be a gift that lasts the season. The title could have been won this Christmas and the points dropped will be the points that matter when the final tallies are taken. Last season required just a couple of draws at the right moment to make the difference. More points than were lost last season have gone out the window this season. It's up to city now who will win it, but it's certainly not in Arsenal's hands because they have proven, as they always do, they are lazy or cowardly when it matters most. This is a recurring theme. It's easy to identify.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
Arteta out. Not joking.Quote:
Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Top four is massive doubt now.
Arteta isnt winning anything this season or next. All he will ever deliver is less than expected of an Arsenal manager
Absolutely agree! He needs to fuck off now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Globalgunner
He probably should be given to the end of the season on the basis that feelings can change quite a lot during a season. Beat Liverpool next week and then go on a decent run in the league and things will feel different. And before everyone says we’ll never beat Liverpool…why not? We just drew at Anfield and were worthy of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chippy
But if we’re not right up there in May then he should fuck off. With the money we’ve spent we should be challenging for the title and other trophies.
The season hasn’t panned out as disastrously as I thought, but the last couple of games have been the kind of results I feared. Sacking him now would be a panic move, but not preparing for a replacement would equally be foolish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Letters
The style we play is a result of him being dogmatic, and the players look over coached and fatigued.
We need to find a way to play that opens up more space in the box for us. It’s not like teams don’t play a deep block against Liverpool and City. And it’s not just having better finishers, it’s about changing up the play to create more space