Arsenal 3-1 Liverpool, Player rating and Match reaction

Raya 5 - Left Saliba looking like a cunt for their equaliser, but his distribution is paying dividends


White 7 - Defensively solid, yellow card aside


Saliba 6 - Total lack of communication between him and Raya


Gabriel 6 - If he hadn’t put in own net, would have given away a penalty


Zinchenko 5 - Did fuck all and was hooked at half time


Rice 8 - Jorginho makes Rice a better player,


Jorginho 8 - He’s so tidy


Odegaard 7 - When he gets space, he’s far more effective


Havertz 8 - Konate had to get himself sent off in dealing with him, he was an excellent decoy for Saka and Martinelli in attack


Martinelli 8 - The player that we had last season.


Saka 7 - His obligatory goal against top team



Subs: Trossard 7, Kiwior 6, Nelson 6


We were just better than them, Klopp admitted it…their defending was poor, Van Dijk and Alisson were a joke . They were never in the game Luiz Diaz aside, they miss Salah big time. That said glad not to have to play them again under Jurgen the German.

Two awful teams who are using tactics that clinically expose their lack of technical and mental expertise. Liver pool were slightly better, but we're talking a millionth of a degree. Both were abject shite, so who was the best shite?

The pathological desire from these players to be negative is stunning. This must come down to the anti-football philosophies of the managers. Managers who think they are Pep Guardiola with a prime Barca squad at their disposal. But they don't have anything like that, and so the tactics are hysterically funny.

Is this current Arsenal squad the orst of all time (and I mean in the histiry of football) at taking a throw-in? I think they are.

Thank God for Martinelli though. At least he realised you have to disrupt the opponent before you can defeat their tactics.

Saw the Klopp interview afterwards. It's almost like modern art. Talking about something that simply doesn't exist. No wonder he's getting out before he's rumbled. Smart move.

I think Arteta probably has 2-3 more years before even the most dull-witted realise he's prancing through the street naked.

And I suppose a shout out to Jorginho for cleaning up Rice's and that useless captain's dogshit. He was very busy trying to find one extra step after we did one step forward, two back. Odegard was particularly bad.

And the obvious observation that astounds me why so-called professional managers can't spot it. When you move the ball forwards at pace, the opposition panics by default. Pep's cancer is so ingrained the modern game expect strict adherence. And when that is abused, such as with the first goal today, football suddenly reverts to what it should be and what it always was before it developed the coof.

:tumbleweed:

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Havertz 8 - Konate had to get himself sent off in dealing with him, he was an excellent decoy for Saka and Martinelli in attack

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This is a lesson. Reality has no bearing on perception. The chav deserved 0/10, same as every other game he turned up to to which he was woefully qualified to compete in. But, I guess football is more about opinion than what actually happens before our eyes. Anyone who didn't know this shitkicker was definitely, 100%, going to miss when clean through on goal, based on all the other observations of his game, or lack of game, prefers to craft reality rather than observe it.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

This is a lesson. Reality has no bearing on perception. The chav deserved 0/10, same as every other game he turned up to to which he was woefully qualified to compete in. But, I guess football is more about opinion than what actually happens before our eyes. Anyone who didn't know this shitkicker was definitely, 100%, going to miss when clean through on goal, based on all the other observations of his game, or lack of game, prefers to craft reality rather than observe it.

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Agree with all what you said except the 0/10, yesterday was probably his best game for us so a 4 or 5/10 would be more appropiate.

Anyway, like you and MO said, he was always going to miss any chance he had that isn't instinctive as he is the worst sissy I've seen in front of goal ever. I mean he's either hitting the ball half heartedly or "conveniently" falling over anytime a big chance comes his way.

Again, easily the worst attacking player I've ever witnessed us sign.

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Originally Posted by 21_GOONER_SALUTE

.Again, easily the worst attacking player I've ever witnessed us sign.

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Sanogo?
I think that’s a bit harsh and I really want to like Havertz but he was a poor signing given how much he cost.

Havertz best use for us is probably up front because he provides a bit of a plan B and he seems to enjoy occupying opponents with his height and strength. Very little goal threat though and his lack of pace is a massive hindrance when he has space to run into. That moment where he got in behind and tried to draw a foul and win a penalty, rather than actually think about getting a shot or pass away summed it up.

The comments on Havertz are harsh, and its a shame that after an excellent win against a team that have only lost once in the league this season he is the focus for negativity. He is not my favourite player, and his lack of speed and composure in front of goal is annoying, as is his propensity to go down under pressure. But he was a key part of a team that out Liverpooled Liverpool in terms of pressing and ball progression, and as poor as Liverpool were - we made them poor and not only dealt with their customary balls over the top, but kept them on the back foot throughout. Restricting them to one shot on target is an excellent achievement.

I know that this will be seen as an excuse, but for me football is a team game and I think that every member of our team played a part in a crucial win in which all the pressure was on Arsenal. If we are going to call our team out for the points dropped in our losing streak, then its only fair to applaud them for a run that puts us back into league contention.

I am very happy this morning.

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Originally Posted by IBK

The comments on Havertz are harsh, and its a shame that after an excellent win against a team that have only lost once in the league this season he is the focus for negativity. He is not my favourite player, and his lack of speed and composure in front of goal is annoying, as is his propensity to go down under pressure. But he was a key part of a team that out Liverpooled Liverpool in terms of pressing and ball progression, and as poor as Liverpool were - we made them poor and not only dealt with their customary balls over the top, but kept them on the back foot throughout. Restricting them to one shot on target is an excellent achievement.

I know that this will be seen as an excuse, but for me football is a team game and I think that every member of our team played a part in a crucial win in which all the pressure was on Arsenal. If we are going to call our team out for the points dropped in our losing streak, then its only fair to applaud them for a run that puts us back into league contention.

I am very happy this morning.

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I believe that without him it wouldn’t have been possible to win. He occupied defenders in a way Jesus and Nketiah do not, thereby making more availability for Martinelli, Saka and Trossard. What people expect is for him to be a player who does that and also score goals…if he did that he would absolutely be worth his transfer fee which he isn’t. You can acknowledge a player wasn’t worth what you paid for him, but still make the best possible use of that player.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I believe that without him it wouldn’t have been possible to win. He occupied defenders in a way Jesus and Nketiah do not, thereby making more availability for Martinelli, Saka and Trossard. What people expect is for him to be a player who does that and also score goals…if he did that he would absolutely be worth his transfer fee which he isn’t. You can acknowledge a player wasn’t worth what you paid for him, but still make the best possible use of that player.

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:gp: This is on the money.

While not about the game itself per se, it was noticeable the level of quality in the post match analysis.

Sky focused on arsenal & arteta celebrating (let’s not forget that Klopp pulled a hamstring celebrating a last minute winner last year!!) yet MOTD actually focused on how arsenal played, the tactics used and how they worked.

Sky, especially caragaher & Neville no longer offer sensible analysis but rather just try to grab headlines with stupid claims

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Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist

While not about the game itself per se, it was noticeable the level of quality in the post match analysis.

Sky focused on arsenal & arteta celebrating (let’s not forget that Klopp pulled a hamstring celebrating a last minute winner last year!!) yet MOTD actually focused on how arsenal played, the tactics used and how they worked.

Sky, especially caragaher & Neville no longer offer sensible analysis but rather just try to grab headlines with stupid claims

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The start of The Metro match report basically said Arsenal took advantage of Liverpool having a rare off day.
I couldn't be arsed reading the rest.
I'm not one who believes the media are all against us, but I agree the level of analysis is lamentably poor, it's little more than trolling, clickbait and meme generation.

Good win.

@HCZ

i'd still prefer Ram in goal, but giving Raya a 5 because of one mistake is a bit silly, his general performance was probably the best I've seen him, he took some very good clean catches under some pressure and his distribution was very good in general. 7

Gabriel and Saliba were both between 7 and 7.5 - again you're punishing them for one moment which is over the top, - in particular Gabriel knew nothing about that handball, it's ridiculous to blame him for it - Saliba should have cleared it though

Also Kiwior did very well and was a 7.5 for me, I'm taking off a half point becuase he could have done better with the header but tbf he got himself into that position and that's what we need, people taking responsibility

Jorg was great and yes, he and Rice work well

White got a silly booking but outside that he was really turning on the style in the first half

Also Trossard was an 8, he was excellent when he came on and did really well to win the ball that he ended up putting in the back of the net

Also I'll give Arteta an 8, we set up well against them with teh players we had and it took a stupid mistake for them to get past us and then they had 5-10 minutes at the start of the second half where they threatened

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Originally Posted by Mac76

@HCZ

i'd still prefer Ram in goal, but giving Raya a 5 because of one mistake is a bit silly, his general performance was probably the best I've seen him, he took some very good clean catches under some pressure and his distribution was very good in general. 7

Gabriel and Saliba were both between 7 and 7.5 - again you're punishing them for one moment which is over the top, - in particular Gabriel knew nothing about that handball, it's ridiculous to blame him for it - Saliba should have cleared it though

Also Kiwior did very well and was a 7.5 for me, I'm taking off a half point becuase he could have done better with the header but tbf he got himself into that position and that's what we need, people taking responsibility

Jorg was great and yes, he and Rice work well

White got a silly booking but outside that he was really turning on the style in the first half

Also Trossard was an 8, he was excellent when he came on and did really well to win the ball that he ended up putting in the back of the net

Also I'll give Arteta an 8, we set up well against them with teh players we had and it took a stupid mistake for them to get past us and then they had 5-10 minutes at the start of the second half where they threatened

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Where I think we disagree on player ratings is that I think you have to judge a player by their worst moment in the game. Therefore if they make a mistake it has to bring down their overall score. If you go to a Dental hygienist you’ll find that’s how they score plaque..they won’t look at where you’ve brushed well, they’ll look at where you haven’t brushed well.

Now I think it’s also fair to say that I judge defensive players harsher than offensive ones. But that’s simply because the defensive player makes a mistake it will more likely lead to us losing than will an offensive player.

I like Rayas distribution if I’m honest, really good for counter attacks


As for Subs, unless they really stand out I don’t tend to score them that highly….very similar to football manager in that regard. Trossard scored a fantastic goal though

Question is now, will we beat West Ham on the weekend? An opponent that has caused us a lot of bother of late. Need to win most if not all of our games now before we go to the Etihad in March. You feel like City are gearing up for their usual end of season winning streak.

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Originally Posted by Ollie the Optimist

While not about the game itself per se, it was noticeable the level of quality in the post match analysis.

Sky focused on arsenal & arteta celebrating (let’s not forget that Klopp pulled a hamstring celebrating a last minute winner last year!!) yet MOTD actually focused on how arsenal played, the tactics used and how they worked.

Sky, especially caragaher & Neville no longer offer sensible analysis but rather just try to grab headlines with stupid claims

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At times they can provide decent analysis, Carragher last night said our defence is the best in the league and why we could still win the title, but end of the day they are partisan and that will always come through when a result goes against their predicted narrative. You can tell they had prepared a spiel on Arsenal being out of the title race come Sunday. No one felt that we’d not only win but win fairly comfortably.

Most punditry now is just about personalities who provide clickbait and gather views. It’s geared towards younger fans who partake in the trolling and back and forths online.

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Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn

I like Rayas distribution if I’m honest, really good for counter attacks

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I agree with this. I am warming to him because of this. He's not a spectacular 'keeper and it was a strange signing with Ramsdale looking good last season, but I'm coming to the view that he's overall no worse than him. We probably should get rid of Ramsdale though, it's not really fair to keep sticking him on the bench when he's clearly good enough to start at a PL club.

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Originally Posted by Marc Overmars

At times they can provide decent analysis, Carragher last night said our defence is the best in the league and why we could still win the title, but end of the day they are partisan and that will always come through when a result goes against their predicted narrative. You can tell they had prepared a spiel on Arsenal being out of the title race come Sunday. No one felt that we’d not only win but win fairly comfortably.

Most punditry now is just about personalities who provide clickbait and gather views. It’s geared towards younger fans who partake in the trolling and back and forths online.

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The Arsenal Vision guys were discussing the pundits' complaints about our 'over celebrations' on their recent podcast, and an interesting point was made. There are prevailing views amongst non-Arsenal analysers. One is (with some justification) that we have not shown staying power in our recent title attempts (ie we are bottlers). Another (again justified) is that Citeh and Liverpool have better title credentials because they have shown this in the past. So the prevailing narrative on Sunday was that Arsenal would slip up, and our disaster when we conceded fed into this. The issue is that narratives take time to alter. In the long term, we will only counter the 'Anti Arsenal' narrative by winning the league/CL. In the short term, there is a clear reluctance/inability to deviate from the script. So an excellent win is responded to not by conceding that Arsenal (in this instance) defied expectations (and analyising how/why this happened), but criticising so-called over celebrations. This plays into the existing narrative by suggesting that the reason for our wild celebrations was because we are also rans - in other words a team that has serious title aspirations does not celebrate a single win as though it has won the league.

Trying to take off my red and white spectacles, there remains a grain of truth in the above view - that will only be squashed if we stay the course this season.

Of course, you are right about the clickbait. There is also some truth IMO in the fact that Arsenal (in the Premiership years) have never been regarded particularly fondly outside its fan base. I can only conclude that this is a hangover from the years when we were regarded as a 'foreign' team, and also the perception that we are whinging cry babies who somehow think that we are entitled to success.

Bottom line - fuck 'em. I'm glad that our manager seems to be feeding off the hate.

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Originally Posted by IBK

The Arsenal Vision guys were discussing the pundits' complaints about our 'over celebrations' on their recent podcast, and an interesting point was made. There are prevailing views amongst non-Arsenal analysers. One is (with some justification) that we have not shown staying power in our recent title attempts (ie we are bottlers). Another (again justified) is that Citeh and Liverpool have better title credentials because they have shown this in the past. So the prevailing narrative on Sunday was that Arsenal would slip up, and our disaster when we conceded fed into this. The issue is that narratives take time to alter. In the long term, we will only counter the 'Anti Arsenal' narrative by winning the league/CL. In the short term, there is a clear reluctance/inability to deviate from the script. So an excellent win is responded to not by conceding that Arsenal (in this instance) defied expectations (and analyising how/why this happened), but criticising so-called over celebrations. This plays into the existing narrative by suggesting that the reason for our wild celebrations was because we are also rans - in other words a team that has serious title aspirations does not celebrate a single win as though it has won the league.

Trying to take off my red and white spectacles, there remains a grain of truth in the above view - that will only be squashed if we stay the course this season.

Of course, you are right about the clickbait. There is also some truth IMO in the fact that Arsenal (in the Premiership years) have never been regarded particularly fondly outside its fan base. I can only conclude that this is a hangover from the years when we were regarded as a 'foreign' team, and also the perception that we are whinging cry babies who somehow think that we are entitled to success.

Bottom line - fuck 'em. I'm glad that our manager seems to be feeding off the hate.

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I make you right. We simply don’t get this kind of finger wagging over Spurs or Aston Villa or Man United. Man United are celebrating like it’s 1999 when they get wins over mid table sides at home and no one is chiding them for it.

Arsenal are convenient whipping boys, the figure of hate in a biased media climate which respects City as the best team ever assembled without any question over what it’s done to make itself so. And with Liverpool they are the plucky underdogs who never give up. Forgetting the fact that we are the team who get the late winners.


It’s not a conspiracy…there’s no reason for it. It’s upholding the lazy narrative as you say, Arsenal don’t like it up em, Arsenal want to walk the ball in, Arsenal have a soft underbelly. I think there’s an element of racism there from when we were managed by a Frenchman (and United were managed by a Scot)

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Originally Posted by IBK

The Arsenal Vision guys were discussing the pundits' complaints about our 'over celebrations' on their recent podcast, and an interesting point was made. There are prevailing views amongst non-Arsenal analysers. One is (with some justification) that we have not shown staying power in our recent title attempts (ie we are bottlers). Another (again justified) is that Citeh and Liverpool have better title credentials because they have shown this in the past. So the prevailing narrative on Sunday was that Arsenal would slip up, and our disaster when we conceded fed into this. The issue is that narratives take time to alter. In the long term, we will only counter the 'Anti Arsenal' narrative by winning the league/CL. In the short term, there is a clear reluctance/inability to deviate from the script. So an excellent win is responded to not by conceding that Arsenal (in this instance) defied expectations (and analyising how/why this happened), but criticising so-called over celebrations. This plays into the existing narrative by suggesting that the reason for our wild celebrations was because we are also rans - in other words a team that has serious title aspirations does not celebrate a single win as though it has won the league.

Trying to take off my red and white spectacles, there remains a grain of truth in the above view - that will only be squashed if we stay the course this season.

Of course, you are right about the clickbait. There is also some truth IMO in the fact that Arsenal (in the Premiership years) have never been regarded particularly fondly outside its fan base. I can only conclude that this is a hangover from the years when we were regarded as a 'foreign' team, and also the perception that we are whinging cry babies who somehow think that we are entitled to success.

Bottom line - fuck 'em. I'm glad that our manager seems to be feeding off the hate.

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they pretty much said the same on the Arsecast also

I'd like to listen to Arsenal Vision but i hate Paul and Clive's voices too much