are we worse then liverpool or are we both in crisis?

was talking to somone about this the other day and are we actually two clubs in massive crisis? the media love kenny so wont bash him but will have a go at wenger portraying us as the only club in crisis.

last year liverpool started like we have this season, and then had a late charge wwhen kenny arrived (change of manager a different topic) but they have spent fuckloads, i know they got 50 million from torres sale but they spent 35 on carrol who is the biggest waste of money, adam, downing and others. the difference between us and them is htey spent we didnt but are we actually behind them? yes in the league we are but they were thrashed by the scum and lost two stoke. two games i would have expected them to win, they had no answer to stokes style and were left to moaning about penalties. they were awful on sunday as well and lost two men. they were lucky to beat us imo, the first goal changed it and it was luck, it was even till then. they havnt looked good imo this season. they chucked money at the situation and so far it doesnt seem to be working.

compare to us, we havnt chucked money at it and we are doing badly (but we all know our problems so no point talking about it) but we are finaclly secure with a new stadium when you compare off the pitch issues, they still cant get their new stadiums. for liverpool its now 6 years without a trophy, while we will be 7. for both our clubs it is not good enough but why do the media not jump on them? they rarely go to the big clubs and win, like us now.

in short, are liverpool in just as a dire situation as us or is the media refusing to achknowledge this because they love kenny. thought it might be an interesting topic to discuss :)

Liverpool are not in crisis and are in a much better position than us IMO. They were dreadful against Tottenham, but apart from that they've been good this season. Okay, they've not been spectacular, but they're also missing Gerrard at the moment and when he returns they'll improve significantly. Yes, they lost to Stoke but they really should have won that match, and deserved a few penalties.

They won't win the league this season, but their chances of being fourth is much higher than our chances. Look at this lineup:

==================Reina=======================

Johnson=====Coates==========Agger============Enriq ue=

=============Adam======Lucas====================


Henderson============Gerrard=================Downi ng=

================Suarez===========================


That looks a very strong starting XI tbh, and they've got enough in backup as well with injuries. The same can't be said for us.

i agree that is a strong lineup but so is ours at full strength imo but yes their strength is in their depth. but your point about gerrard is a bit over top imo, i think he is past it, still a good player but not what he was. he wont improve them that much. he hasnt really done much over last couple of seasons, yes i know he has been injured but still

Worse.

Liverpool are at the start of a building a teamm. We are 6 years in to being a laughing stock

We're in crisis because we've lost 2 games? :lol:

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Originally Posted by Dalglish Is Boss

We're in crisis because we've lost 2 games? :lol:

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not my main point tbh, it will have been 6 years before you next win a trophy, even if you win one this season, still 6 years. the media keep pointing that out to us, why not you?

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Originally Posted by ollie the optimist

not my main point tbh, it will have been 6 years before you next win a trophy, even if you win one this season, still 6 years. the media keep pointing that out to us, why not you?

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They do. You just don't read them as often (as I don't with other clubs).

For us though the recent main stories have been about the ownership situation and the manager situation(s). It will be back on the agenda come May. And even then it is always digs at the manager - the reason yours seems more sustained is because Wenger has been the common denominator in those 6 years.

Not winning trophies for a few years isn't a crisis though. This time last year was a crisis.

We were shocking against Spurs though.

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Originally Posted by Dalglish Is Boss

They do. You just don't read them as often (as I don't with other clubs).

For us though the recent main stories have been about the ownership situation and the manager situation(s). It will be back on the agenda come May. And even then it is always digs at the manager - the reason yours seems more sustained is because Wenger has been the common denominator in those 6 years.

Not winning trophies for a few years isn't a crisis though. This time last year was a crisis.

We were shocking against Spurs though.

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could you tell not winning trophies isnt a crisis line to arsenal fans :lol:

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Originally Posted by ollie the optimist

was talking to somone about this the other day and are we actually two clubs in massive crisis? the media love kenny so wont bash him but will have a go at wenger portraying us as the only club in crisis.

last year liverpool started like we have this season, and then had a late charge wwhen kenny arrived (change of manager a different topic) but they have spent fuckloads, i know they got 50 million from torres sale but they spent 35 on carrol who is the biggest waste of money, adam, downing and others. the difference between us and them is htey spent we didnt but are we actually behind them? yes in the league we are but they were thrashed by the scum and lost two stoke. two games i would have expected them to win, they had no answer to stokes style and were left to moaning about penalties. they were awful on sunday as well and lost two men. they were lucky to beat us imo, the first goal changed it and it was luck, it was even till then. they havnt looked good imo this season. they chucked money at the situation and so far it doesnt seem to be working.

compare to us, we havnt chucked money at it and we are doing badly (but we all know our problems so no point talking about it) but we are finaclly secure with a new stadium when you compare off the pitch issues, they still cant get their new stadiums. for liverpool its now 6 years without a trophy, while we will be 7. for both our clubs it is not good enough but why do the media not jump on them? they rarely go to the big clubs and win, like us now.

in short, are liverpool in just as a dire situation as us or is the media refusing to achknowledge this because they love kenny. thought it might be an interesting topic to discuss :)

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You expected them to beat Stoke and Spurs away? Lets not pretend they were favourites for these games, when was the last time they won these fixtures?

It's nonsense to suggest Liverpool have not been scrutinised as much by the media. They were destroyed by the media towards the end of Rafa's reign and during Woy's short tenure. Kenny restored a bit of normality and they're now in the process of rebuilding. They've been out of the CL for 2 years now so are not being judged by that measuring stick. Even their fans will tell you there is still a lot of work to be done but they're over the worst of their crisis period. As for not winning the big games, they beat United and Chelsea last year. Beat us last month as well so it's not strictly true.

We on the other hand are going through the worst period ever seen since Wenger arrived, so that's why we're backpage headline makers. What is happening right now with us is unprecedented under Wenger, so the focus is rightly on us because our situation is far different and probably worse than theirs.

And actually our record against the big clubs has been pretty good recently.

It's consistency where we fall down.

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Originally Posted by Dalglish Is Boss

And actually our record against the big clubs has been pretty good recently.

It is whenever Stevie G gets in the penalty area we fall down.

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A refreshing piece of honesty.

:haha:

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Originally Posted by GB.

A refreshing piece of honesty.

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You're doing him a disservice there.

It's not just a fall. Anyway we have Suarez for that now; Gerrard can hardly move.

Their squad seems surprisingly weak for the money they've spent. Even against us they were pretty woeful and had to thank Frimpong and then Ramsey for the win.

There's not much in it squad wise but their overall setup is better than ours, think they'll finish higher but can't see them making top four.

Yep.

Tottenham pretty much have that last CL spot sewn up for the forseeable future unless they do something spectacular to fuck it up.

Pool are in a tough fight with the spuds for 4th this year, somewhere down the road about a million miles in the distance comes Arsenal. To compare the two teams is laughable, to compare the two starts to the season equally so. Pool lost 4-0 when down to 9 men. A bad result but a far cry from an 8-2 humiliation at OT and a dire capitulation to Blackburn. We are in absolute crisis, Pool are genuinely building and have spent the required money to do it. Will their team click overnight? Probably not, but it will do over the course of the season and I think they'll probably pip the spuds. When Carroll sorts his shit out (stupid punk gets the chance of a lifetime and is fucking it up) he'll add a lot, whereas we can only look forward to RvP getting injured as usual. We are embarking on a new round of embarrassment, Pool aren't in the same league as us any more. They moved up, we fell off a cliff.

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Originally Posted by Boss

Their squad seems surprisingly weak for the money they've spent. Even against us they were pretty woeful and had to thank Frimpong and then Ramsey for the win.

There's not much in it squad wise but their overall setup is better than ours, think they'll finish higher but can't see them making top four.

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We're not bad in having 2 players for each position (obviously some players are doubled up) but anything further than that and we are quite weak. We still have some positions needing filling; a DM, RW and back up striker being three. And we still have important players made of glass. Agger :banghead:

Sorting out the stadium issue is probably the most important off field problem that needs solving. I just can't see us expanding Anfield anytime soon and how we react during this transition could make or break our "project". Same with Spurs with their stadium problems. I don't think their squad is that great either. Spurs aren't the holy grail, you're not getting relegated and we're nowhere near there yet.

It will be between us, them and yourselves for 4th. And it will be closer than most think.

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Originally Posted by Dalglish Is Boss

We're not bad in having 2 players for each position (obviously some players are doubled up) but anything further than that and we are quite weak. We still have some positions needing filling; a DM, RW and back up striker being three. And we still have important players made of glass. Agger :banghead:

Sorting out the stadium issue is probably the most important off field problem that needs solving. I just can't see us expanding Anfield anytime soon and how we react during this transition could make or break our "project". Same with Spurs with their stadium problems. I don't think their squad is that great either. Spurs aren't the holy grail, you're not getting relegated and we're nowhere near there yet.

It will be between us, them and yourselves for 4th. And it will be closer than most think.

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Suggest you watch us defending (or attempting to defend) and have a re-think about that 4th place. Like yourselves we had a £50mill player who wanted out. You converted the cash into players, we bought a new sauna for Peter Hill Wood. That will make a hell of a difference over a long season.

Pool are ahead of us this season footballistically. Financially we are the shizzle dizzle.. probably the best run football club in the world. Liverpool has a feel good factor around the club while there is not an iota of positivity around Arsenal- and rightly so! We have a deluded manager and cunts in the boardroom backing the manager to the hilt, fans losing confidence.. we are in free fall tbh!

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Originally Posted by FakeYank

Pool are ahead of us this season footballistically (not a real word). Financially we are the shizzle dizzle (another made up phrase).. probably the best run football club in the world (best run business attached to a football club and leeching from it). Liverpool has a feel good factor around the club while there is not an iota of positivity around Arsenal- and rightly so! (untrue, we are positive we are out of Europe next year) We have a deluded manager and cunts in the boardroom backing the manager to the hilt, fans losing confidence.. we are in free fall tbh!

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Fixed

It's an interesting question, and a pretty neat comparison. It makes a refreshing change from Spurs constantly being compared to us, their players saying they have a stronger squad, our own fans saying they have a better manager, "pundits" saying there's a shift in the balance of power in North London, only for the Lillywhites to finish below us time and time again.

We've had a truly shocking start to the season.....not only when we compare it and contrast it against Manchester United's excellent beginning. Their best Premiership start ever has punished us even more. There is no room for let-up, no room for slip-ups.

I've still gotta say, that we've gotta hold fire. If this start of the season is anything to go by, Newcastle are great and will finish in the Champions League. Nobody is saying that Sunderland are in a crisis, despite a crap start having bought umpteen players over the summer. Any comparison should be made later on in the season, or even after it.

I kinda think that Liverpool's trophy drought isn't mentioned as much as Arsenal's either, but that's probably because I'm looking at it through these red n white spectacles. Also, with the common denominator being Wenger, we're bound to have it mentioned more than Liverpool who have chopped and changed since 2006.

3 wins in 16 suggests its more than just a bad start.

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Originally Posted by Ach

3 wins in 16 suggests its more than just a bad start.

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We've been "unlucky"

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Originally Posted by Ach

3 wins in 16 suggests its more than just a bad start.

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I'm sick of the negativity and I'm sick with being negative, but you just can't get past this fact. And right now, there is nothing to suggest that the next 16 games are likely to be any better.

liverpool are a top class winger away from becoming an established top 4 team again.

at the moment they're battling for 4th.
with another winger they could quite easily get 4th.

we on the other hand are regressing. at least liverpool have improved compared to previous seasons and there's an air of optimism around the place.

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Originally Posted by GB.

I'm sick of the negativity and I'm sick with being negative, but you just can't get past this fact. And right now, there is nothing to suggest that the next 16 games are likely to be any better.

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:(

And here I thought that we are winning our next 33 games and ending on 103 points!

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Suggest you watch us defending (or attempting to defend) and have a re-think about that 4th place. Like yourselves we had a £50mill player who wanted out. You converted the cash into players, we bought a new sauna for Peter Hill Wood. That will make a hell of a difference over a long season.

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the only thing i will say to that is they spent 35m of the 50m on carrol who is almost as much as a waste of money as torres. when we played them, tv5 who is about half his height had him in his pocket

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Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

liverpool are a top class winger away from becoming an established top 4 team again.

at the moment they're battling for 4th.
with another winger they could quite easily get 4th.

we on the other hand are regressing. at least liverpool have improved compared to previous seasons and there's an air of optimism around the place.

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You should read some Liverpool forums. :lol:

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Originally Posted by ollie the optimist

the only thing i will say to that is they spent 35m of the 50m on carrol who is almost as much as a waste of money as torres. when we played them, tv5 who is about half his height had him in his pocket

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He's the exact type of player we've needed for years. Whether he is that player, I hope so.

He's struggled to settle in but for too long we've had no alternatives up front, no way to change the pattern of a game. If we can find an effective way to accommodate him and Suarez then it could be a great partnership. He has to play his part though, at the moment he is playing without confidence and the longer that goes on the more pressure that will build.

For Torres and Babel we got Suarez and Carroll. I'm happy with that. If he does turn out to be a flop, then we move on. He isn't the first he won't be the last. I'd rather take the risk though.

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Originally Posted by ollie the optimist

the only thing i will say to that is they spent 35m of the 50m on carrol who is almost as much as a waste of money as torres. when we played them, tv5 who is about half his height had him in his pocket

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We spent 15 Millon on a league 2 player so i think were even there. As fot the orginal question are we worse then pool, Of course we are. They were not expected to win the league realistally top 4 was their aim and they are going that way.

We don't know where we are going tbh but its 2 steps backwards

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Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

We spent 15 Millon on a league 2 player so i think were even there. As fot the orginal question are we worse then pool, Of course we are. They were not expected to win the league realistally top 4 was their aim and they are going that way.

We don't know where we are going tbh but its 2 steps backwards

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We go together because opposites attract.

this is from obi's facebook, didnt realise it was this close

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Hodgson's record as Liverpool manager: P31 W13 D9 L9.
Dalglish's record since returning as Liverpool manager: P30 W15 D6 L9
#justsaying

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Originally Posted by ollie the optimist

the only thing i will say to that is they spent 35m of the 50m on carrol who is almost as much as a waste of money as torres. when we played them, tv5 who is about half his height had him in his pocket

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Both Torres and Carrol will score vital goals for their respective clubs this year. Once Carrol sorts himself out (off the pitch) he'll be tremendously effective. He's immense in the air, unbeatable on his day. Torres will find some form at some point, in fact there are hints he's on his way back now.

We, on the other hand, sit here praying RvP does something he's never been able to do, give us a whole season. Because if he can't, we have absolutely nothing in reserve. Nothing at all. Comes down to the greedy bastards in the boardroom who hate this club, hate the fans and are only here for what they can extract.

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Originally Posted by ollie the optimist

this is from obi's facebook, didnt realise it was this close

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And Denilson is the best midfielder in the league.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Can't argue with stats tbh.

And these stats tell me that Woy is a great manager, just like King Kenny.

Or that both are a bit shit.

Or that there's been a huge turnover at Liverpool and they are therefore still inconsistent.

Or that Liverpool are rubbish.