This "Wenger doesn't know how to motivate players" bullshit is bullshit.

[Power n Glory]

What about it? It is true.

As for the rest, you don't make sense. How can I have ignored something you didn't say?

I did say very early on from the discussion and you've ignored the posts.

PnG

Do you think Ox has been anywhere near what he was last season? It relates back to what the previous poster said about players falling off in their second season.

GB

I don't think it is a huge mystery.

He is played sporadically, is under pressure, has noone to learn from (contrast with Theo at his age) and has been found out. His attributes are no longer a surprise to opponents, so they deal with it better.

Ox has a LOT to learn - but from who?

PnG

Contrast to Theo for his age?? It sounds like a similar story to Theo to me.

And I didn't misunderstand you're original. It's a similar story to Theo and posted this to elaborate.

No, as I said, it's a similar story for Theo. He came as striker and was learning to play as winger when players like Eboue, Hleb, Nasri and Rosicky featured on the flanks. None of them were natural wingers or could teach Theo a thing about playing as winger with pace. Eboue was probably the closest we had at beating players and using his pace but his end product was awful, so not the greatest example.

Theo was plagued with injuries. He had two serious ops on his shoulders early on. Pressure....he was picked for England before he was an Arsenal regular and hailed as the English wonderkid like Rooney.

That answers the rest of your post so I'm not ignoring the rest. It's a similar story. But Theo has gotten a lot better over the years. The original point was regarding players lacking confidence and how we seem to sucking it away from the players. OX was one of them. Brimming with confidence when he first arrived but not so now.

It's funny how you get defensive after throwing the first uncalled for shot. Maybe we can stay on topic next time.

If you can agree that he hasn't done well this season, as I said earlier then how am I being disrespectful to the kid?

[Xhaka Can’t]

I hope this hasn't been keeping you awake all night.

I'm off to a meeting, but will get back to you later.

But it seems we agree on most points of substance.

[IBK]

Back to the OP - what your argument appears to assume is that there is only one way to motivate your team. For me it is patently obvious that Wenger is at fault for his players' approach to some games. Here are some examples.

- The manager consistently signals that certain games are less important than others. We saw this on the weekend, when starting a 'second string' team against Blackburn gave the clear message that this was a game that we could win without 100% commitment - and it showed in the team's approach to the game. The same applied to last season's CC final - when the team's lackadaisical approach to the run up to the final continued in its attitude on the pitch.

Even our second string should be sufficient to beat Blackburn and Birmingham, yes, but that's not the point. I can understand how Wenger's laptop tells him that he must rotate his team - but it is inevitable that when you signal that your priority is other than the game in hand, this will inevitably translate to your players on the pitch. Particularly when you are not a great man- motivator in the first place.

Similarly, Wenger's tacit admission that the EPL is beyond the club's resources - both in terms of his allowing our best talent to leave the club each season, and in his defence of finishing in fourth place over the seasons is damaging in terms of players' motivation. We are scared of playing so-called 'bigger' teams, and this fear is generated in part by the manager's overall approach over the past few years. If you give the impreession that you will accept second best then so will your players.

I would argue too that the way that Wenger behaves towards his players is de-motivating. How many times have we seen certain players stink the place up yet be 'rewarded' by keeping their place in the team. Players like Diaby, Gervinho have done little or nothing to justify starting berths - yet are persisted with. Walcott is indulged with a central striking role when is is patently obvious that he cannot be effective there against any half decent defence. This will inevitably lead to complacency. Other players - such as Jenkinson and Koscielny after last season, and Rosicky this season are dropped/not played despite being on hot streaks. I understand that to a degree these are issues for all managers. I understand too that in Wenger's head he is convinced that his players will come good. But both persisting with mediocrity and not rewarding good performances will inevitably de-motivate.

I feel also that Wenger over-protects his players. I am not arguing that he should attack them in public, but too often we see statements being made about his teams ability or performances, or PR spin that sidesteps obviously poor results. Compare and contrast Wenger and Laudrup last weekend. Over protected players will not bleed for the team every weekend. You have to get the balance right, and IMO Wenger doesn't.

Finally the lack of coaching, the self-confessed failures both to prepare to play the opposition that the team is facing and to practice the set pieces that can yield 'easy' goals is inevitably de-motivating. Particularly in a team so bereft of leaders, if the way you play is as ineffective as ours is, and if other teams can nullify us consistently, then of course the players are going to question themselves and motivation is going to suffer.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

its not bullshit. its real.

look at moyes and the way he gets his players to run through a brick wall for him

then look at walcott failing to track back, gervinho staying up field, even back in the day denilson casually jogging back when out of possession.

that all stems from motivation; if you motivate and encourage players they'll respond and do what you say.

unless of course he isn't even telling them to do that, in which case he is a useless pile of tosh and needs to be sacked ASAP.

[Globalgunner]

Motivation is part of the issue but not all of it. Wenger has this vaunted belief in a system of play that he adopted with the move to the Emirates. A pass and move system that brought players right into the opposition box and has the final ball played through the defenders. Early days he had talented players like Fabregas Hleb and nasri to put this into play. It was pretty but not always effective but when it worked it was good on the eyes. The instruction seemed to be to shoot only when you can see the stubble on the goalkeepers chin. Unfortunately even that close Gervinho will still miss and Giroud will instead shoot AT the keeper. It can only work with really talented players witrh close control, ball retention and slick movement. Barca can do it as thery have the players, but even they can be neutralised as has been done by Inter Chelsea and Milan. Yet the old dreamer persists with the bargain basement clod hoppers he keeps buying to ensure he retains his sales bonus.

He doesnt want to buy quality because quality players have ego and no patience for plainly rubbish methodologies

[Kano]

if swansea and several spanish teams can play decent football, then we can too. problem is we need to evolve the style back from the pure possession at all costs, back to actually moving towards the goal every time we have the ball.

[AKBapologist]

We started our best 11 against Blackpool, make fuck all difference. Moan about rotation and signals all you like but we just don't have the quality to take on teams who park the bus, or defend against anyone with an inkling of imagination.

[IBK]

Back to the OP - what your argument appears to assume is that there is only one way to motivate your team. For me it is patently obvious that Wenger is at fault for his players' approach to some games. Here are some examples.

- The manager consistently signals that certain games are less important than others. We saw this on the weekend, when starting a 'second string' team against Blackburn gave the clear message that this was a game that we could win without 100% commitment - and it showed in the team's approach to the game. The same applied to last season's CC final - when the team's lackadaisical approach to the run up to the final continued in its attitude on the pitch.

Even our second string should be sufficient to beat Blackburn and Birmingham, yes, but that's not the point. I can understand how Wenger's laptop tells him that he must rotate his team - but it is inevitable that when you signal that your priority is other than the game in hand, this will inevitably translate to your players on the pitch. Particularly when you are not a great man- motivator in the first place.

Similarly, Wenger's tacit admission that the EPL is beyond the club's resources - both in terms of his allowing our best talent to leave the club each season, and in his defence of finishing in fourth place over the seasons is damaging in terms of players' motivation. We are scared of playing so-called 'bigger' teams, and this fear is generated in part by the manager's overall approach over the past few years. If you give the impreession that you will accept second best then so will your players.

I would argue too that the way that Wenger behaves towards his players is de-motivating. How many times have we seen certain players stink the place up yet be 'rewarded' by keeping their place in the team. Players like Diaby, Gervinho have done little or nothing to justify starting berths - yet are persisted with. Walcott is indulged with a central striking role when is is patently obvious that he cannot be effective there against any half decent defence. This will inevitably lead to complacency. Other players - such as Jenkinson and Koscielny after last season, and Rosicky this season are dropped/not played despite being on hot streaks. I understand that to a degree these are issues for all managers. I understand too that in Wenger's head he is convinced that his players will come good. But both persisting with mediocrity and not rewarding good performances will inevitably de-motivate.

I feel also that Wenger over-protects his players. I am not arguing that he should attack them in public, but too often we see statements being made about his teams ability or performances, or PR spin that sidesteps obviously poor results. Compare and contrast Wenger and Laudrup last weekend. Over protected players will not bleed for the team every weekend. You have to get the balance right, and IMO Wenger doesn't.

Finally the lack of coaching, the self-confessed failures both to prepare to play the opposition that the team is facing and to practice the set pieces that can yield 'easy' goals is inevitably de-motivating. Particularly in a team so bereft of leaders, if the way you play is as ineffective as ours is, and if other teams can nullify us consistently, then of course the players are going to question themselves and motivation is going to suffer.

And I forgot to mention that this socialist wage structure where the shit players earn a lot regardless hardly motivates the better players. This having been said, Since his pay rise, Walcott has stunk the place up.

[Kano]

he scored in the next four games didn't he?

[AKBapologist]