What did you expect? The Euro cunts to use their own money?
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What did you expect? The Euro cunts to use their own money?
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Who gives a fuck it's not like anyone in leave has or is capable of making a coherent argument
It's a bit of a waste of taxpayers money when Remain will win regardless
On what basis do you keep saying that?
Because referendums habitually go the way a government want them to, because there has been no consistent polling showing anything but a lead for remain and because plenty of people have negative views of the EU but no one in leave can offer a consistent narrative of what Britain does next.
People being cross with the EU leading to Brexit is the same kind of wooly thinking that people claiming the Tories being bad means people will vote for Labour.
Remain will win, even many Brexiters think that will be the case.
I think Remain will win too, but I don't agree it's a given. And the referendum will go the way 'the people' decide, if that happens to be the same way the government want then so be it but it won't go that way BECAUSE it's what the government want.
Governments get to decide how the question is asked and the timing of referendums and they often get more media saturation than the opposing side and this pamphlet feeds into that, don't get me wrong like I say remain will win anyway. Also governments don't hold referendums unless they are sure they will win.
This can't be compared to the independence referendum which was forced on the government by the SNP victory in holyrood and won despite a pretty terrible better together campaign. It was the government who promised a referendum, the government who set out the timetable for the referendum etc.
Referendums are the illusion of choice and always politically motivated.
The argument for leaving is not only coherent, it's obvious. You cannot be independent if your laws are made elsewhere. This is a very simple concept to grasp. Of course the question will not be framed in an honest manner. The real issue lies with the people supposedly making the choice. Very few, it seems, can resist fear. Very few, it seems, can see the arguments are actually reversed.
Europe is a con game, another in a long line of con games. You get nothing. Look at the numbers. Look at the accelerating trends. Under your nose. And everything is connected. For example, these Panama Papers, or Soros Papers if we are to be accurate. Is it just a coincidence that Panama is holding out against the global sharing of personal financial information? Or that Iceland has been targeted? All around you is the developing apparatus of centralised global government and it is a vain and vengeful master. Europe is just another step in the process, not the end game, and you can see the same process occurring across the continents. Go and look. Europe brings us one phase closer to global unification. A worthy aim you might imagine. But do you really think this is being done for your benefit? Since when has anything ever been done for your benefit? What types of people are driving this project? Who are the foxes herding the hens? You're the hens by the way, just in case you don't even grasp that much.
The question then. Do you want independence? Yes or No?
The question is NOT - are you a nationalist, or do you love or loathe the government, or are you a Tory, or any of that other mindless and irrelevant shit. People have fought and died for independence, not because there is something inherently worthy in the nation state (there isn't) but because the closer your are to the decision making process the more chance you have of restraining the excesses of the ruling classes. Not a big chance, a slim one, but a chance that reduces in line with the increasing number of people allegedly represented. Again, obvious.
The answer to the real question will be no because people don't understand the question. And even if it ended up as yes, does anyone really think that would be the end of it? These grand projects are not open to being derailed by uppity plebs. You can attend the theatre but you're not invited on to the stage.
I find it increasingly baffling that so many still believe government and global government is there to represent them. It's as if history is erased each time the clock ticks to the next minute.
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To be fair NQ, you don't believe in any form of government and whilst I respect that view the mechanics of the alternatives have never sat well with me.
And in that sense, i can't imagine it would matter to you whether laws are made in Brussels or Westminster.
And leaving won't bring about the society of total self determination that you think we should strive for.
We are talking about the governance of 60 million people as opposed to 400 million and growing. Quite the difference in terms of representation and accountability. And Britain is not the government, even though they would prefer people think that way. You don't have to accept government to reach the conclusion less of it is better then more of it if currently inflicted with it.Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie
Nowhere have I said we must leap from government to liberty in one bound. Obviously there are stages in between, spanning decades or even centuries I would think. But to commence on that path you don't go in the opposite direction.
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Fair enough, i don't agree that Brexit is even a stepping stone towards the type of society you would like or will budge it in the direction you want it go one inch but as a point of logic i can't argue with that.
Of course as i don't want the same society you think we should live in, that's what my decision is based on.
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