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Thread: Wenger's legacy - has it held us back

  1. #141
    Member Power n Glory's Avatar
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    Le Grove. Worth a read.

    Some very good points.

    Morning Grovers, let’s crack straight in to today’s post, no light hearted quips about the weather.

    A few points raised about the game at the weekend.

    We’re heading into a new era of football. Their are a number of reasons Wenger can’t cope at the moment, the biggest issue I fear is his age. That, combined with his reluctance to embrace the future and the realities of football in 2012.

    When he took over at Arsenal, he was the man who raised the bar in the Premier League. He understood the importance of fitness and technical ability. He changed the regime at Arsenal, he stopped alcoholics drinking, he gave the best players more money and he supplemented winners with more winners. The result? A strong team of experienced leaders that had the magical flair of a continental side.
    What was Ferguson’s response? Change. He brought in Carlos Queiroz. What happened to Arsenal over the next few years? Nothing. Ferguson dominated. Arsene had two more great league wins after 1998, still with the core of experienced heads. Every time, they were marked with a change by Alex Ferguson. Every time Arsenal won the Premiership, there was a response. An acceptance change had to occur, be that backroom staff or players.
    Now we’re in the post Mourinho era. There are no experienced winners in the side. The legacy of any winning team has disappeared because Wenger sold them all off. He didn’t keep anything in the changing room for a rainy day. He hasn’t changed his backroom team. There’s very little know how in the side we have at the moment. When I say ‘know how’, I mean people who have been here through the good times and the bad. People who lead in the dressing room. People who manage themselves.

    So are the players the only reason we’re struggling? No. The other reason we’re not what we used to be and the other less spoken about reason the Premier League seems to be of a lower standard is because of the teams below. Back when Arsene rocked onto the scene, lower league teams couldn’t match the big teams for fitness. You would turn out against players who’d been on the p*ss the night before. If you didn’t destroy them with quality, you’d certainly destroy them with fitness.

    There’s a new type of manager coming through. Managers like Michael Laudrup, Paul Lambert, Chris Hughton, Brendan Rodgers who all understand the game. They all understand the benefits of technology and they all run incredibly tight ships at their clubs. Rodgers and Lambert are at new clubs, but make no mistake about it, they both have great reputations in the game and Rodgers especially will get it right at Liverpool. That was his team we played at the weekend. They passed better than us, they fought harder than us and they thought harder than us.
    All those teams are now as fit as Arsenal. There’s no advantage on that front. So there is where the problem lies. We don’t always have the quality to take out these sides, because the people managing them can make up for the lack of quality with a tactical master plan. Arsenal were out smarted by a team with a £17million wage bill this weekend. The same happened at Villa and the same happened at Norwich. Teams know how to screw us. Man mark our three person midfield and force Mertesacker to do the passing. Then press our full backs, look what happened to Jenkinson. It kills out width and it kills out movement in the centre of the park. Is Arsene working on a plan to stop this killing our flow? Very doubtful. Is he asking his backroom team to address the issue? Again, doubtful.

    I keept a close eye on the Presidential election. Social media marketing is my thing. Now, one of the biggest focuses for my area of business over the next year is big data. Every tweet you send, every status update you make, every comment you contribute to a blog could be insight around a brand or a passion point and it could be harvested into an insight. The brands who use that data most effectively over the next few years are going to give themselves a huge advantage over everyone else. In the months building up to the last election, President Obama recognised the need to collect all this data and make sense of it. He created a super database that mashed up online and offline data to help them accurately model where he needed to apportion budget. He won the election at a canter. The long and short of this is gut feeling is dead in marketing. Not totally, but we’re moving to a new age where creativity and decisions will all be underpinned by hard data.

    Football is moving this way. Young managers get this. The days of having a feeling about how tired a player have been replaced by scientific certainty. Every single statistic about a team is logged, analysed and turned into something that can be used as an insight. But is it at Arsenal? I don’t believe so. We’re still living off the days of gut feel. Well, here’s a bit of gut feel for you. How many games has a 32 year old Arteta played so far this season? Nearly all of them to the tune of 90 minutes. How long is he going to last until he has a breakdown? Even if he stays fit, what about his mental fatigue? Wenger is still working off gut feel and that’s why he’s being outsmarted so reguarly.

    Who at the club is going to challenge him on this? He’s a dictator. The club know this, which is why they should be using this down period to assess what’s going on. The players know how we operate isn’t right because they have freinds who they talk to. That’s why all our stars leave. We don’t refresh our backroom staff. If Wenger had it his way, I’ve no doubt Pat Rice would have been tied down to a forever contract like Diaby. Wenger doesn’t want to be challenged, you can see that by his comments about his 1,600 games. Sure, you used to know the way to win, but things never stand still. Technology moves on, training regimes improve and the game evolves. Ferguson delegates tasks at United, he knows he doesn’t have all the answers so he trusts his experts. That’s why he’s survived. Arsene Wenger doesn’t delegate, he’s still manning the whistle at training.

    Another example of something I’m sure we don’t do. AVB was the away scout at Cheslea under Mourinho, that would involve him going out to all of the teams they were about to play, analysing how they play and feeding this information back into the manager. He’d then help put a DVD together which would be given to the players. Who is our away day man? I’m pretty sure it’s Stuart Houston. Yeah, the caretaker manager from the George Graham days. No offense to the man, but what is he going to know about the modern game? What insight is he going to bring to the table? How many Stuart Houston DVD’s have been given to the players this season?

    Then there’s the scouting network. What the hell has happened there over the past few years? Is it the case that once again we’ve been caught up? No. It’s the case that we’ve been beaten again. Look at the players we’ve brought in over the past few seasons. Hardly any of them are true rough diamond gems. Why are we missing out on so many good unknown players these days? Why are other teams with less resource doing to much better on that front. What did Michu cost Swansea? Why weren’t we in for Rangel this summer for £3million. He looked like a very Arsenal like player. What about Cabaye, Tiote, Ba and Cisse? Or the players at Everton like Mirallas, Oviedo and Fellaini. We’re being out played at our own game… and rough diamonds is most certainly our MO.

    I’m not saying we should be landing them all, but we’re missing out on a serious amount of good players who would vastly improve our offering for a very low price. The problem with this type of management is that even if we do climb into third, we’re not addressing the issues at the club. Each year that passes contributes another £20million to the ‘what we’d have to spend to get back to the top’ pot. Theo leaving will be a hammer blow to our squad, not because he’s the greatest player on the planet, no, it’s because he’s one of the few players we have who can take the ball round players. We’re static and pedestrian at the moment. We don’t have the flair we should have in the squad.

    This is why I’d opt for the young manager option. My first choice would be Guardiola, my second would be Jurgen Kloop. Pep would relish the job at Arsenal. Why people say he wouldn’t is a total mystery to me. He’d be on £7.5m a year. That doesn’t really matter though, Pep isn’t about money, he’s about the project.
    Let’s look at what makes Arsenal appealing

    •Money: Some of the biggest deals in football are about to drop, plus he has £70m banked

    •Training facilities: We have some of the best in the world. Don’t doubt the pulling power of this factor

    •Stadium: Incredible stadium

    •Legacy: Arsenal are a big club. The 4th biggest in the world. We have a deep and rich history

    •Baseline: Take over from Ferguson and you’re taking over from a ‘now’ winner. Perhaps the greatest. Who’d go to Chelsea? City might be interesting but your’e on a time limit. At Arsenal you’re starting from a pretty low baseline. The only way is up. Nothing modern is being trialled.

    •Control: We have a history of giving autonomy to our managers. This is another huge pulling factor

    •Time: We’re about the long term with our managers. You know there won’t be any knee jerk reactions. He’ll be given time to impose himself on the brand.

    All those above factors will ensure we get a manager of excellent pedigree. But you know what, I wouldn’t mind us picking up a manager who just had an excellent vision and a CV which showed they could do it, even at a small club.

    This is the thing, do you want to sit and watch 5 more years of what we’ve been served up over the last 8? Or would you prefer to watch someone who had a passion for trying something new? I know what I want to see at the club. It’s a new project, it’s a new vision and that’s only going to happen with a young manager…

    Let me know your thoughts in the comments…

  2. #142
    Pat Rice LDG's Avatar
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    He makes a few decent points, but I really dislike the way he writes. It's very very poor.

    How can he harp on about "gut feeling" when he says "Is Arsene working on a plan to stop this killing our flow? Very doubtful. Is he asking his backroom team to address the issue? Again, doubtful".

    That's his gut feeling isn't it?

    Fromwhat we're led to believe, AW is too heavily involved in data and statistics, and too little gut feeling.

    I'm not sure where this guy is going with his piece, but it's not very good.
    It's better to burn out, than to fade away.

  3. #143
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    I think writing off Stuart Houston as a nomark who's unable to asses the upcoming opposition is pap. We do provide DVD's of upcoming opposition for the players. I've read our players talking about it.

    You can compress that blog post into a few paragraphs that sum up Wenger:

    When he first came to England there was no competition other than Man U - now 99% of teams in the Prem are decent and have decent managers. In years gone by Wigan would have somebody like Jim Smith in charge. Now they have a very astute, hungry young buck playing continental football.

    When he first came to England he had the entire French market to himself. Other teams scouting has caught up or overtaken ours.

    When he first came to England the only team he couldn't compete financially with was Man U and the only team more attractive to join than us was Man U. Now there are three or four more attractive clubs to join with bigger budgets.

    It's game over, the glory days are long gone. 4th spot is a good season for the foreseeable future unless an English Messi comes through the ranks.

  4. #144
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    But where is the evidence of any of this on the pitch. Squad selection and tactics suggest otherwise. We've only just invested that fitness tech which tells us if players are in the red but how much attention is being paid to that? I heard Wenger say Wilshere was in the red when playing two seasons ago but he played him until he was broken. Other the weekend he mentioned Giroud being in the red but he's one the players that gets rotated often while Arteta plays all the time he has got to be in the red by now.

    One of Cesc's complaints before leaving was that we didn't watch enough tapes on the opposition. Maybe we're getting more tapes in but it's pretty useless if we're still playing in the same way and selecting the same team.

  5. #145
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    Wenger's tactics have never been his strong point. All this analysing is pointless.

    The simple fact is we are not as good now than we were before because we have less good players.

    It's as simple as that.

    Mourinho, Pep, Klopp would all get this team into top four but would they win us the league without needing to spend fortunes? I personally don't think so.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grebbo View Post
    Wenger's tactics have never been his strong point. All this analysing is pointless.

    The simple fact is we are not as good now than we were before because we have less good players.

    It's as simple as that.

    Mourinho, Pep, Klopp would all get this team into top four but would they win us the league without needing to spend fortunes? I personally don't think so.
    It's not if you think someone is actually providing tapes of the opposition but we're still playing in the same way. That says a lot.

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz View Post
    i think you need to take a long hard look at yourself after that post.

    take a break and if you still feel the same, kill yourself in a big, gay orgy.
    tt,

    if you were able to buy arsenal and you did, and you had so much money to burn, what would you do?

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory View Post
    It's not if you think someone is actually providing tapes of the opposition but we're still playing in the same way. That says a lot.
    Well we started the season well enough and now we're doing shit. It's mainly to do with the quality we have in the final third - which is shit. No tapes of the opposition is going to help our lack of quality in the final third.

    If Manure didn't buy RVP their fans would be questioning Fergie big time right now.

    In the Prem it's all about the final third. This is the first year in Wenger's 15 years that we haven't got one world class player in the final third. That's why we're struggling. We don't have one world class player in the team.

  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grebbo View Post
    Well we started the season well enough and now we're doing shit. It's mainly to do with the quality we have in the final third - which is shit. No tapes of the opposition is going to help our lack of quality in the final third.

    If Manure didn't buy RVP their fans would be questioning Fergie big time right now.

    In the Prem it's all about the final third. This is the first year in Wenger's 15 years that we haven't got one world class player in the final third. That's why we're struggling. We don't have one world class player in the team.
    We didn't start the season well. Look at the results. The lifeless performance we're seeing now where we struggled to create chances was there from the opening two games where we drew 0-0. And no, it's not all about the final third because in past seasons where we've scored loads and opened teams up we've had a leaky defence.

    So adapting to the opposition what help our game? I don't believe that because it's exactly how teams have been able to shut us down this season and in the past. You have to employ some sort of tactic and it would help if we knew our oppenents weaknesses.

  10. #150
    bye Xhaka Can’t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gooners View Post
    tt,

    if you were able to buy arsenal and you did, and you had so much money to burn, what would you do?

    I'd have Letters killed.

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