Wenger Referendum II - And this time it's personal

[Letters]

The reason I get so aggro with Letters is that his default position is:. Defend Wenger at all costs. There is always reason to be hopeful with him.

Well, no. For much of this season I've been firmly in the 'Wenger Out' camp and said so repeatedly. 4 wins in our first 12 league games was disgraceful. Ultimately though, a season should be judged at the end and you have to give some credit where it's due and acknowledge that we've turned it round, gone on a fantastic run and hauled ourselves into 2nd place and the Cup Semi-Final. If we finish the job then Wenger deserves credit for that.

I'm constantly bemused that I'm sneered at on here for reconsidering my position in the light of new events. To me that makes more logical sense than stubbornly sticking to a view no matter what happens.

We start each season with the means and tools to win all 4 comps we are in. By March we are usually out of all of them and still we keep saying, we can build on this.

We weren't last year, we won the Cup. This year we're back in the semi-final and really should get to the final.
Are you suggesting that we weren't under pressure in the Cup quarter final at Old Trafford? I would suggest there was more pressure in that game than Monaco at home. A lesser competition but a later stage of it and a one off game rather than a two legged tie.

[Niall_Quinn]

Then what were they playing at early season? And who buys and trains the players?
Wenger is responsible for results, good or bad.

Can't fault his activity in the transfer market recently. But Wenger's ability to use those players to the best advantage is deeply suspect. Injuries and luck (plus the desire of players like Coquelin) has helped Wenger out hugely. He still makes his silly subs though, still goes defensive when we should be on the front foot, still takes opponents for granted. All the flaws are still there, don't be fooled otherwise.

[Letters]

Oh yeah, the defensive 4-1 win vs Liverpool.
What a bumbling idiot

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh yeah, the defensive 4-1 win vs Liverpool.
What a bumbling idiot

Didn't say it was defensive, I said he took his foot off the gas when we were under zero threat and by doing so created the threat he was trying to avoid. Then you take the Monaco game where he admits the team wasn't prepared for the first leg, in other words the result was taken for granted. You could say it was a one off but look back over the seasons and you see it happening time and time again. He's a good manager, the best in some respects. But he's average and sometimes woeful tactically and he has a stubborn streak that prevents him learning key lessons. That said, his stubborn streak sometimes helps us too, like when he stuck with Ramsey when just about everyone was on the kid's back. An infuriating man that has a huge amount of resources at his disposal but remains 98% efficient at using them when it's the 100% effort that wins the big prizes.

[fakeyank]

None of them have been similar. This is the best run since The Invincibles, and the best run anyone has put together this season. And comes at the end of a run of 17 wins out of 20. Again, we haven't done anything close to that since The Invincibles. Long unbeaten runs with quite a few draws in really don't compare...unless it suits your agenda.

This is all PL stats below:

2007/08 season, in our first 15 games, this was our record before our first loss: P15 W11 D4

2008/09 season, after losing 5 games by the end of November, our record till the end of the season was P24 W13 D10 L1

2009/10 season, after our loss to chelsea at home 0-3, our record till our next loss was P10 W7 D3. We then lost 2 games in succession and then went on another run. This run was P8 W7 D1.

We always have unbeaten runs. 2009/10 had a lot of draws but look at the others (especially 07/08), what makes you think this is even close to the invincibles?! The above stats look even better when you pepper in random token wins in the FA Cup, Carling Cup and CL Group stages, but frankly I didnt want to put the time and effort to prove an already known point.

To say that this is the best run since the Invincibles is an absurd statement to make when we lost to Tottenham as recently as February!! You really are acting a WUM on this one and you know it. There is no point going further on this tbh..

[mr_brighterside]

Do we need to spend more than 50 million in the summer anyway?

a keeper
a centre back
seven or eight more attacking midfielders, just in case
a striker

probably

[Power n Glory]

This is all PL stats below:

2007/08 season, in our first 15 games, this was our record before our first loss: P15 W11 D4

2008/09 season, after losing 5 games by the end of November, our record till the end of the season was P24 W13 D10 L1

2009/10 season, after our loss to chelsea at home 0-3, our record till our next loss was P10 W7 D3. We then lost 2 games in succession and then went on another run. This run was P8 W7 D1.

We always have unbeaten runs. 2009/10 had a lot of draws but look at the others (especially 07/08), what makes you think this is even close to the invincibles?! The above stats look even better when you pepper in random token wins in the FA Cup, Carling Cup and CL Group stages, but frankly I didnt want to put the time and effort to prove an already known point.

To say that this is the best run since the Invincibles is an absurd statement to make when we lost to Tottenham as recently as February!! You really are acting a WUM on this one and you know it. There is no point going further on this tbh..

[Letters]

Only one of those runs is anywhere near what we've done this year, and that's 2007/8 which is when we really should have won the title, might well have done had the Eduardo thing not happened. We've shown we can go on sustained runs of title winning form, we've shown we can win big games at the crunch time of the season, we've shown we can win trophies again under Wenger and we finally have a squad that can compete, not just a first 11. Questions remain about us sustaining a title challenge but I reckon only Chelsea fans would refuse to swap positions with us right now. But yeah, Wenger's an idiot who gets paid blah blah blah...


All that said, this run IS meaningless if we fail to finish the job. We have to win the cup. I'm less bothered about finishing 2nd although it would be a boost psychologically and stop the 4th place trophy nonsense.

[Power n Glory]

All that said, this run IS meaningless if we fail to finish the job.

Which is why that silly stat is pointless. We could end the season with less points than what we finished on last year but come 2nd instead of 4th. No point in putting much stock in the stats.

[fakeyank]

Only one of those runs is anywhere near what we've done this year, and that's 2007/8 which is when we really should have won the title, might well have done had the Eduardo thing not happened. We've shown we can go on sustained runs of title winning form, we've shown we can win big games at the crunch time of the season, we've shown we can win trophies again under Wenger and we finally have a squad that can compete, not just a first 11. Questions remain about us sustaining a title challenge but I reckon only Chelsea fans would refuse to swap positions with us right now. But yeah, Wenger's an idiot who gets paid blah blah blah...


All that said, this run IS meaningless if we fail to finish the job. We have to win the cup. I'm less bothered about finishing 2nd although it would be a boost psychologically and stop the 4th place trophy nonsense.

How is the second run in 09/10 of 7 wins and 1 draw just not as good? And how on earth is this anywhere close to the Invincibles?!!

Wenger's done ok this season and I think he will deserve a chance if we win the cup and beat Chelsea, but to pretend like this run is the best thing since sliced bread is laughable!