Wenger Referendum IV

[Niall_Quinn]

We need a lot more revisionism in this world. It's only a swear word because it suits those who benefit most from avoiding examination of the past in light of new information that emerges over time. Given the emergence of Wenger's mile wide selfish streak that he's prepared to indulge at the expense of the club he claims to love, I'd conclude it's more than fair to look back over his entire record and rethink some of the assumptions that have stuck over time. Clough was forgiven because the drink got to him. What's Wenger's excuse? It becomes clearer each day he's a vain, selfish, cold and calculating individual and probably always was. I certainly don't view him today the way I viewed him a decade ago, surely it would be impossible to do so? This is his fault, not the faults of those who have been surprised and disappointed by his behaviour.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

What's the point if we continually come to the same conclusion....? And it aint because Henry isn't taking charge of the U18's.... it's because we are dire to watch and can't put a few results together.

[Niall_Quinn]

What's the point if we continually come to the same conclusion....? And it aint because Henry isn't taking charge of the U18's.... it's because we are dire to watch and can't put a few results together.

Well yes, that's true and that's the main problem. But why has this main problem developed over time and become more pronounced as each season passes? Personally I don't think Henry in the dressing room would make much, if any difference. That's not the real issue. The real issue is Wenger seems to have the final say in just about every decision, so we are in a situation where the board say, what about..., and Wenger then delivers the royal proclamation which is final. And there doesn't seem to be any room for dissenting opinions, at least that's the impression that comes out of the club. This would be fine if Wenger was infallible, but that's far from the truth. He's desperately needed input from other figures for a long time now, somebody strong enough, influential enough and with sufficient authority to get Wenger to have a rethink on some of his baked in but only half baked ideas. What about Steve Bould? There's no way that guy can have any real influence at the club. There's no way we'd be defending the way we are if Bould had a say in anything. You have to reach the conclusion that Wenger doesn't want to hear anything from anyone except, yes boss. If he could relent on that front then we might see something different.

[Globalgunner]

It is unusual which is precisely why you need time to name more than 1 example with the example you named being a very recent precedent. Nobody suggested anybody is erasing titles but you can maintain that absurd line of thinking if you wish.

People are only suggesting that an U18 coach would have any authority to question Wenger because it is Thierry Henry, not because he is the U18 coach. If that is the case, then why does he need a coaching role...? He's Thierry Henry, has a personal relationship with him and can question him in private without fear of losing his job anytime he likes as can David Dein who has also maintained he is still close to Wenger.

In reality Henry would have less authority than Bould, and many have lamented his lack of influence so I'm not sure why this Henry thing is even much of an issue. If he has a taste for it, Henry will remain a coach longer than Wenger will and may come back to the club anyway especially as Josh Kroenke seems to be besotted with him.

I cant really bother because it is not important. Many active managers as well as players have popped up in the studios as pundits. literally all of them including the lamented Big Sam while he was still England manager. If this is all you have left to defend him with it is a piffling. Moreover, its not even the issue here. Whats pertinent is Wengers need to be infallible and unquestioned within the club. Even when he is falling flat on his face.

[Niall_Quinn]

Unmask the 6

[Power n Glory]

It is unusual which is precisely why you need time to name more than 1 example with the example you named being a very recent precedent. Nobody suggested anybody is erasing titles but you can maintain that absurd line of thinking if you wish.

People are only suggesting that an U18 coach would have any authority to question Wenger because it is Thierry Henry, not because he is the U18 coach. If that is the case, then why does he need a coaching role...? He's Thierry Henry, has a personal relationship with him and can question him in private without fear of losing his job anytime he likes as can David Dein who has also maintained he is still close to Wenger.

In reality Henry would have less authority than Bould, and many have lamented his lack of influence so I'm not sure why this Henry thing is even much of an issue. If he has a taste for it, Henry will remain a coach longer than Wenger will and may come back to the club anyway especially as Josh Kroenke seems to be besotted with him.

You might be missing the bigger issue. We need structural change and for more football men to be part of the setup. Henry would only be a U18 coach but it's fresh blood we and need to reform on all levels. Wenger's comments about 'superficial' changes shows he may be blocking this club from being about football and not just checks and balances.

[selassie]

I didn't agree with that at all and couldn't see why something couldn't have been worked out. This is Thierry Henry and Arsene Wenger! They know each other and have a relationship. Why Wenger couldn't trust Henry to do both jobs professionally or to keep what he does at Arsenal out of his punditry work, I have no idea.

He trusted Henry enough to come back and train with the team when he was playing in New York. Different circumstances and roles and Thierry isn't the only former player to come back and work with the team in an unofficial role, but I think it's selfish of Wenger. These guys are good enough athletes and he's OK developing them physically, but seems unwilling to develop them mentally. Why hasn't he taken on a former player to mentor? Why not bring them on to do their coaching badges? He talks about giving back to the game but I don't like the look of this picture.

Yep

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

The bigger issue(s) is exactly why I questioned the focus and criticism of the Henry non appointment which in itself IMO not a big deal. There is something to be said for smaller things endemic of larger problems so would accept that particular point. We all know the manager is an issue at this stage and not appointing Henry is so far down the list of his crimes it seems insignificant. It is an issue because of who it involved rather than anything else and I get that.

Like NQ suggests, if his assistant alone would only have more influence, it seems crazy to think we would defend worse.

[Power n Glory]

The bigger issue(s) is exactly why I questioned the focus and criticism of the Henry non appointment which in itself IMO not a big deal. There is something to be said for smaller things endemic of larger problems so would accept that particular point. We all know the manager is an issue at this stage and not appointing Henry is so far down the list of his crimes it seems insignificant. It is an issue because of who it involved rather than anything else and I get that.

Like NQ suggests, if his assistant alone would only have more influence, it seems crazy to think we would defend worse.

Yes, definitely. The smaller things, like the Henry situatuon are just symptoms of a larger issue. If it were just Henry being dismissed we could look at it as a one off. Bit it's a pattern and leads on to an issue of the whole backroom staff and culture needing an upgrade. I even doubt a whole backroom staff swap could blunt Wenger's influence, yet alone Henry. But we'd a at least be set up for when Wenger has moved on.

After Wenger leaves, we have no idea if anyone at the club will be fighting for fans interests or even capable of doing so since we have a serious lack of footballing knowledge around the club. All the knowledge seems to be held by Wenger and the fact that he's failed to invest on that front leads me to think he's looking out for his own interests despite his bluster about setting us on a bright path.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes, definitely. The smaller things, like the Henry situatuon are just symptoms of a larger issue. If it were just Henry being dismissed we could look at it as a one off. Bit it's a pattern and leads on to an issue of the whole backroom staff and culture needing an upgrade. I even doubt a whole backroom staff swap could blunt Wenger's influence, yet alone Henry. But we'd a at least be set up for when Wenger has moved on.

After Wenger leaves, we have no idea if anyone at the club will be fighting for fans interests or even capable of doing so since we have a serious lack of footballing knowledge around the club. All the knowledge seems to be held by Wenger and the fact that he's failed to invest on that front leads me to think he's looking out for his own interests despite his bluster about setting us on a bright path.

I'm convinced of the latter point. For me, the recent months have revealed the real Wenger. His failure to resolve the uncertainty that is harming the club at every level is absolutely unforgivable and beyond outrageous.