Ozil - Do we need him?

[Power n Glory]

yes, you are Alternative Facts.

Hazard was slated for not defending earlier at the Emirates. Killed. He struggled earlier this season.

Conte liberated that from him and told him to stay higher up the pitch. Now Hazard is back to being a killer. Wenger doesn't play to Ozil's strength to help the team. I said it earlier, the man should be used as a forward and not as a 3rd midfielder. He tried it on Saturday but they moved back because no one had an idea how to deal with Pedro. Thats down to Wenger.


Coquelin is a bummy footballer, but Wenger wants him to contribute to our attack. He

Dumbass, what's stopping Ozil from attempting more than one take on in that match? Can he not dribble?

Hazard had 10/10 for take ons. 0/1 for Ozil. Those are the facts. No matter where you play or what instructions you're under, you can at least attempt to dribble out of trouble as Hazard did, as Cazorla often does. It's not even a case of him needing to be liberated from defensive duties. Even if played as a forward, he can't coast and just depend on his passing.

[Niall_Quinn]

Alternative facts?

Can anyone explain to me how the heck the system we play stops a player from doing the simplest thing any player can do and track back?

Or something as simple as jumping to defend a header?



Man, if you guys don't knock off this bullshit about the 'system'....

When will common sense kick in? If you’re at work and have to contact an important client on deadline day but emails aren’t working, is that an excuse not to work at all? How about picking up the phone?

As said with Ozil, he’s super talented, has pace, can dribble and pass. Ok, passing isn’t working but seek an alternative way to win the game if you’re truly world class. The best in the world aren’t so easy to stop. What pisses me off more than anything is that he’s one of the few that’s capable. People are often surprised by sudden burst of pace or dribbles because he shows it. Take some initiative. If you’re hammering it out for 80 odd minutes with unsuccessful pass after pass and still losing, when will it the light bulb shine to try something different? It’s the same sort of thing I hammer Arsene Wenger for with his rigid approach. Ozil is one of the few players capable of adapting his play.

Also, no matter how much I can’t stand Wenger as manager it doesn’t mean players can get away with some of the performances we’ve seen. You’ve seen the clips of Sanchez and Ozil walking and not defending against Chelsea. For the Hazard goal we saw similar to what Ramsey pulled against Watford. What has that got to do with the system? It’s inexcusable.

Plainly it does mean players can get away with some of the performances we have seen. It's players like Perez who get dropped, or Campbell who get shifted on. The players you complain about are all rolled out week after week. Sounds very much like they are getting away with it.

So we either;

Get rid of them and get some replacements in who will also be allowed to get away with it every week;

Get rid of the guy who let's them get away with it;

Get rid of all of them.

Option 1 is pointless. Option 3 is overkill, because if we got a manager who doesn't let them get away with it then who knows?

So option 2 is logical and leaves an incoming manager with at least the opportunity to see what these players can actually do.

Do we applaud players who don't give their all? Nope. I think comments like, "didn't turn up", "lazy bastards", are a clue into the true feeling when players don't give back something in return for what they take.

But how do we actually go about solving this problem?

We get rid of the guy who is ultimately responsible for the problem and a hundred other problems besides. If we did that today, booted him today, and got a decent manager in then I'd have every hope of this squad breaking into that 12 point gap. But for every game that Wenger remains the situation becomes more hopeless.

The fans are wasting their energy if it is not poured 100% into getting this man out.

[Power n Glory]

Plainly it does mean players can get away with some of the performances we have seen. It's players like Perez who get dropped, or Campbell who get shifted on. The players you complain about are all rolled out week after week. Sounds very much like they are getting away with it.

So we either;

Get rid of them and get some replacements in who will also be allowed to get away with it every week;

Get rid of the guy who let's them get away with it;

Get rid of all of them.

Option 1 is pointless. Option 3 is overkill, because if we got a manager who doesn't let them get away with it then who knows?

So option 2 is logical and leaves an incoming manager with at least the opportunity to see what these players can actually do.

Do we applaud players who don't give their all? Nope. I think comments like, "didn't turn up", "lazy bastards", are a clue into the true feeling when players don't give back something in return for what they take.

But how do we actually go about solving this problem?

We get rid of the guy who is ultimately responsible for the problem and a hundred other problems besides. If we did that today, booted him today, and got a decent manager in then I'd have every hope of this squad breaking into that 12 point gap. But for every game that Wenger remains the situation becomes more hopeless.

The fans are wasting their energy if it is not poured 100% into getting this man out.

So you admit Wenger is letting him coast? If we can get to that sort of acknowledgement than I'm open to discussing the solutions. Just the other day you were saying Ozil's stats prove he works hard. That's the sort of excuse I can't stand. We have videos up of him not jumping to defend that last minute winner and Minormind is talking as if he's too good to jump for the ball. I can't honestly criticise Wenger for making excuses in his lost match interviews and then come on here and listen to the same sort of excuses.

Possible solutions...a new manager first and foremost. Next, Ozil may have to rethink his position as a number 10. Hardly any managers plays the system we play and most players that have Ozil's technical skills operate from deep. Or wide in a forward role like Minormind says. But Ozil has to really adjust his game to play those roles. If further back, he can't be afraid of physical contact. He has to engage, tackle, press and really up his physical game if he's going to be in the thick of things. I doubt he can make that transition and it might not be the best move for such a light player.

As a forward on the wing, it's not as if he can ignore his defensive duties there either. He'll have to chase back because we saw how Chelsea ripped us open. Minormind is wrong about Hazard having no defensive duties. Certainly wasn't the case against us anyway. Also, Ozil has to be more aggressive when approaching the box and take on players. Passing to the nearest open man can't always be the go to option.

Players have to take some responsibility for their game if we've paid serious money for their talent. Just on the other thread you weren't you saying it was the Vieira's and Bergkamp's that helped us win titles despite Wenger's flaws? So what's so different now?

[Niall_Quinn]

So you admit Wenger is letting him coast?

Not at all. I'm testing your argument and showing you how even if what you are saying is true then you only have one real course of remedy. I don't think Ozil coasts at all. I think he works hard yet sometimes terribly ineffectively. Like most of the players in the squad. They have no direction, no discernible tactics to work with, apparently no appreciation of the opposition and given they have no initial plan it stands to reason they have no fallback when things go wrong. I think Ozil "goes missing", like many players in the squad, because when they come up against competent managers and above average opponents the lack of planning and tactics on our part are a handicap too great to overcome, in most cases. Sometimes individual brilliance pulls our arse out of the fire.

I think Cech is a bigger indicator than Ozil. I find it extremely hard to believe Cech has decided to be unprofessional just because he has joined Arsenal. I think he's being handicapped by the general disorganisation in the team, just like other players. Yes, there's no forgiving kicking the ball to the opposition like he did against the chavs. That's a straight mistake. But I think performances and momentum are closely linked and if you have a manager who seems to make it his main aim in life to destroy momentum then the chaos and randomness it injects into what should be a carefully drilled machine is going to cause splutters and backfires. Or handbrakes being left on, if we want to use a Wenger analogy.

Will I concede that Ozil makes infuriating individual mistakes and that sometimes he can be bullied out of a game? Yes, that seems to be fair. I also say that there's a different refereeing standard for us, and I know people will say knock it off, it all evens out. That's not what I see. But yes, he can be bullied, no doubt about it and if I question him it's on that basis. Is he tough enough for this league? Shame that such a talented player has to worry about being kicked around the place, but that's the reality of this pub league. I think he tried to toughen up at the start of last season but didn't carry it through and is now looking a bit lightweight again. I'd like to see him get a nice red card for going straight through the back of some Utd scumbag like Fellaini or Rooney. I think that would do him the world of good. Really fuck them up badly, so the next dirty cunt who steps out against him has something to think about.

Yes, I'm totally up for a new manager coming in, taking a look at not just Ozil but everyone and saying let's change that. In fact it would be awful if that didn't happen. Some Wenger stooge coming in and keeping everything the same, and it's not inconceivable that's precisely what we'll get.

Players do indeed have to take responsibility for their performances. But I have said it before, if you get a bad choreographer then even the best dancers on the planet will put on a bad show. It's not because they are bad dancers, it's because they were asked to dance badly.

[mastermind84]

Dumbass, what's stopping Ozil from attempting more than one take on in that match? Can he not dribble?

Hazard had 10/10 for take ons. 0/1 for Ozil. Those are the facts. No matter where you play or what instructions you're under, you can at least attempt to dribble out of trouble as Hazard did, as Cazorla often does. It's not even a case of him needing to be liberated from defensive duties. Even if played as a forward, he can't coast and just depend on his passing.

why are you calling me a dumbass?

Where is Ozil receiving the ball? Is he facing our goal or the opponents goal? These are questions you have to answer when you ask a question like "why is he only attempting one dribble a game?" I don't know the answer to that, but watching Ozil for years at Madrid, at Bremen, and for Germany he is not utlized the same way at Arsenal as he was at those other sides. You see this sport through a vacuum and give individual players too much power. This sport is about organization and tactics and the positioning of your teammates and their technical ability. Its even more about it now with the Guardiola influenced football we are seeing now, and which Wenger has not attempted to understand.

Hazard's takeover success proves the point I am making. In the first match at the Emirates, Hazard only completed 1/4 take-ons, also a fact. Conte liberated him and moved him higher up the pitch and created a system to get the best out of him. Wenger has no idea how to get the best out of Ozil, and even Sanchez. On Saturday Sanchez had one touch in the penalty area. Think about that. I have railed against Sanchez's discipline and how he is often anti-structure, but if your tactics Alexis Sanchez only a single touch in the penalty area over 90 minutes then something is terribly wrong with your system or lack thereof.

Like I said earlier in this season, you want Wenger gone but I don't think you know why you want him gone.

[Power n Glory]

Players do indeed have to take responsibility for their performances. But I have said it before, if you get a bad choreographer then even the best dancers on the planet will put on a bad show. It's not because they are bad dancers, it's because they were asked to dance badly.

Yes, a bad show. But does that mean the dancer forgets and looks like they now long know how to pirouette?

I know the course of remedy. That's not what I'm debating. I'm not happy with Wenger's performance as a manger but I'm also unhappy with Ozil. But you're unwilling to concede that Ozil isn't doing more than he can for some reason. The reason why this debate lasts so long because it's met with so much resistance by Arsenal fans. It's a strange one.

[Özim]

I think it boils down to this, some players are self motivated and others need the manager to motivate them, we've all seen struggling sides who sack their manager bring someone better in and display a new vigour, with players looking hungrier, more motivated and generally performing better.

Things are stale under Wenger, players lack motivation and we're seeing this all over the pitch, performance are average and there's a distinct lack of hunger and desire, all comes from the manager I'm afraid, a better manager would transform the side and maybe give them a fresh outlook and bring back that desire that's missing. If players don't respond then they'll be replaced with players who fit in.

Ozil to me clearly looks like he needs someone to give him fresh drive, Wenger isn't the man, but perhaps we can find someone who can, he's undoubtedly very, very talented nobody can doubt that, but he needs the right manager to get the best out of him and perhaps more competition for his place.

[Letters]

I still think a strong captain would do the job too.

[Marc Overmars]

We won't have a strong captain until we have a manager who can deal with the big and sometimes abrasive personalities. Wenger is happy enough with his nice guys.

[Power n Glory]

Kos isn't a strong captain. Quiet as a mouse. I still remember the way he handled that Costa situation. But it comes back to the manager because he picked Merts as captain and Kos as vice.

But either way, we're talking about a 28 year old and a supposed World Class player. I get that some players need motivating but the very best in football are able to motivate themselves. They're able to adapt. That's what makes them world class.