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Thread: Was Man United a watershed?

  1. #51
    Tennis Expert Syn's Avatar
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    Gibbs was of super quality performance level 9/10 before his death too.

  2. #52
    Member Kano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letters View Post
    We've not been very good recently but I think it's a little early to pull the trigger just yet.

    We've had 10 games so far in the league, 6 away and 4 at home. Two of the away games have been the two Manchester clubs, the one we lost at home was Chelsea. We've only got one point from those 3 games but I think most on here accept they're all better sides than us. A point away at City was a good result, it's more than most teams will get this year. I didn't see the Chelsea game for various reasons but understand we were pretty unlucky to lose. Yesterday we were poor though and we've not looked good recently. The gap yesterday was depressing but early season we looked pretty decent. I'm not sure where it's gone wrong but we didn't look like such a bad side.

    If we can recapture that form then we'll finish 4th comfortably, if not then it'll be a struggle but the other candidates for 4th are all looking pretty poor too so it's there for the taking for whoever gets their act together.

    We've got 2 home games next, Fulham and Spurs. Both sides who are close to us in the table.
    Win those and we'll be fairly comfortably 4th and things will feel better.

    The lack of creativity is worrying me at the moment. The defensive problems are being over-stated (although Santos is bloody awful, the rest are OK IMO). The bigger problem right now is creating chances and scoring them.
    even when we lost pace in recent years, we usually had a creative output somewhere. the last time things were this bad was post xmas when we signed arshavin; we went something like a dozen league games unbeaten with most of them goalless draws.

    with no obvious goal scorer leading the line and no big player to stand up and take that initiative this is the most worried i've felt about our team under wenger.

    take away that goal fest against the worst defence ever in the prem (southampton) and it's 9 goals in 9 games.

  3. #53
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    Uhm....


  4. #54
    Administrator Letters's Avatar
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    The whole thing is a worry but there were times last season when we looked very poor. Other times we looked pretty good.

    We had RvP to bail us out last year and Song played him in quite frequently but with Carzola, Giroud and Podolski we should have enough in theory to score goals.

    There is something going badly wrong at the moment but we're not suddenly a terrible team.

  5. #55
    Goat Balls fakeyank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    This is like setting up a metronome beside the bed before you have a fuck and then counting down to pre-planned orgasm regardless of what the bird is up to. She could have headed off and made coffee for all you care because it's the counting that's important. Timing that cum shot just right. You're the world's greatest lover because the stats don't lie.
    Arsene Wenger, the only football manager that got paid 8 million quid to do nothing but sit on his arse..

  6. #56
    Member Power n Glory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Letters View Post
    The whole thing is a worry but there were times last season when we looked very poor. Other times we looked pretty good.

    We had RvP to bail us out last year and Song played him in quite frequently but with Carzola, Giroud and Podolski we should have enough in theory to score goals.

    There is something going badly wrong at the moment but we're not suddenly a terrible team.
    It's worrying that you keep saying the same thing each year.

  7. #57
    Administrator Letters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory View Post
    It's worrying that you keep saying the same thing each year.
    I say the same thing because the same thing happens each year

  8. #58
    MOe Marc Overmars's Avatar
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    If you don't have willing runners you can't expect to create many chances. Woolchild and Catzola carry the ball well but they become pointless if they can't pick gaps to slide a ball through. Giroud is clearly a player who needs service but what can he expect to recieve from Podolski and Ramsey, 2 players who are asked to operate on the wing despite having no pace or trickery. There's just nothing industrious about what we're doing, I couldn't believe when Ramsey managed to dart into the box the other day, IIRC not a single player was in the box sniffing out any potential chance, so that just left him with no choice but to drill the ball at the keeper and hope for the best.

    I don't know what our style of play is now, it's neither here nor there.

  9. #59
    Member Olivier's xmas twist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Overmars View Post
    If you don't have willing runners you can't expect to create many chances. Woolchild and Catzola carry the ball well but they become pointless if they can't pick gaps to slide a ball through. Giroud is clearly a player who needs service but what can he expect to recieve from Podolski and Ramsey, 2 players who are asked to operate on the wing despite having no pace or trickery. There's just nothing industrious about what we're doing, I couldn't believe when Ramsey managed to dart into the box the other day, IIRC not a single player was in the box sniffing out any potential chance, so that just left him with no choice but to drill the ball at the keeper and hope for the best.

    I don't know what our style of play is now, it's neither here nor there.
    Should have got Isco tbh.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Berg Kamping View Post
    Thanks. For me, there have of course been concerns with the manager for a while. However, I have defended him against the vastly superior spending power of the top 3, backed him when he has got rid of want away players that I think the club has been generally powerless to keep, and been prepared to see what he can do with a new policy of purchasing established stars rather than youngsters.

    But it has become clear to me that he has lost the insight into the game, and particularly the objectivity as to the effectiveness of his methods, that he once had. Lets face it, Wenger has never been a tactician. He has relied on his vision as to how the game should be played, his willingness to give players the freedom to express themselves on the pitch, and a sharp eye for talent. All three are now being shown up.

    His vision as to how the game should be played is both out of step with the talent at his disposal, and ill suited for the English game, where counter attacking is king. We are a dream for any counter-attacking team to play - whether it is those teams such as Manure and Citeh, and lately Chelsea who do so by design, or those teams (the majority of the bottom half of the league) who primarily want to defend and then nick a sucker punch while they can. Yet Wenger cannot see this. His obsession with possession play leaves us far too high up the pitch and without fluidity and movement in the final third. There is no consistent end product, and finding the available openings requires his MF's to be on the level of Cazorla, and his strikers to be on the level of RVP. The manager does not seem to realise that the vast majority of his attacking players are either not being played to their strengths, or are simply not good enough. And the overall quality falls year on year.

    Hand in hand with this is the scant attention he places on, or his inability to equip his players to play the opposition. It might be fine to ask a Henry; Vieira; Pires; Ljungberg; Nasri; Fabregas or Van Persie to express yourselves. They all had the quality to read the game and to do so. Carzorla and Arshavin aside (and Wenger has killed the latter) none of our current crop can thrive in this environment. It almost seems ridiculous that you should not try to make it as easy as possible for your players by telling them what to do; playing them where they are most effective, and exposing the weaknesses of the opposition. The lowliest Championship manager will try to do this, and the likes of SAF do there straightforward things very well. Without the talent and the independence of thought that is needed on the pitch for Wenger's approach to work, he might as well be sending his players out with their arms tied behind their backs.

    Increasingly, it seems that Wenger is setting up his sides based upon some kind of a computer program. With substitutions that are pre-planned rather than reactive. He seems increasiingly clueless tactically - so its no surprise that his players look clueless on the pitch.

    Then we look at his eye for talent. I do not want to be revisionist, and clearly Wenger has unearthed some real talent over the years, but since the youth project his ability appears to be diminishing. I put this down to 2 things. First he seems to be motivated by an obsession to find something different in players even where they are tried and tested - hence either he plays them out of position or he assumes that they will work in his system, when they are not suited to do so. Again, it seems almost as though there is a blueprint that every player has to confirm to. Secondly, he seems obsessed with showing the world that he can unearth hidden talent. But for every Jenkinson, we have a Santos; a Chamakh; a Denilson; a Ramsey...

    And the biggest problem for us is that AW is too arrogant to accept assistance; too myopic to see his mistakes, and too set in his ways to change them.

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