Has Wenger really benefitted AFC since 2006?

[Marc Overmars]

Good read

[Dog Toffee]

*puts fingers in ears and chants 'Wenger Knows'*

[selassie]

The problem ALL AW backers fail to see is what he IS doing to the club. As far as my perception of the whole situation goes, its not the fact that AW has not won a trophy, it IS the fact that we do not even TRY. Back in the stone ages when we didnt win trophies, we put our best foot forward going into a season. We have a net profit in transfers yet they are not addressed. We have the same defensive frailties that are not addressed... how much more can a fan take?

Also another important thing to take note is that sooner rather than later, the big elite clubs will be miles ahead of others. This is not 1960 where all 20 teams starting the PL season has a chance to win the league. Times are different and for better or worse, it will remain the same. If we sit and procrastinate saying that we have gone zillions of years without a trophy, we can add 6 more to that, then thats a huge freakin mistake. We need to keep pace with the Utd's, Chelsea's, Barca's and Milan's of the world.

What are the fans really asking? Nobody I know has mentioned that we need to break the bank and sign a 50 million quid player. All we are asking is for some change in tactics, add some experience. Why couldnt Arteta, Santos, Mertesacker and Chu Young been added earlier? We have had glaring problems at CB position for years and IMO, it is yet not completely solved.. whose fault is it?

Wenger WAS good.. he is past it now. For his sake, I hope he doesnt tarnish his legacy at Arsenal.

[fakeyank]

What's frustrating is that IMO he is the reason we're still top 4 (I think under most managers during the stadium move and with the rise and rise of the billionaire owner and other clubs spending big we'd have long since slipped out) but I also think he's the reason we've not won a trophy for so long as a mixture of stubbornness, idealism and poor coaching has seen us fail.
It's a maddening combination.

I completely agree on that but you have to look at that with some context. In 2007 when we moved to the stadium, we still had a few of the invincibles and some players who rubbed shoulders with members of the invincibles- TH14, Gilberto, Jens, Flamini, RVP, Cesc, Kolo. The speed at which AW took out the experience in the squad baffles me.. TH14 loves the club but he really didnt see any ambition from us, so he left and deservedly won the CL with Barca. Gilberto was sold. Flamini wasnt given a pay rise. Kolo was sold etc.

You then look over at Man Utd and see how SAF has held onto experience like Giggs, VDS, Scholes, Rio and you see the difference. These guys are winners and the youngsters were allowed to train with them, learn from them and know what it takes to win- on and off the field. AW just looked at the age and once it was 30+, the player would be chucked out... football games are not only won on the pitch, a majority of it is off it. Think if we had resigned PV4 last season instead of City.. u think PV4 wouldve let us slide into the depths of despair after our CC final.. heck, you think he'd have let us run onto the CC final with that lacklusre attitude? He'd have fired the players up for the game. What we saw was a bunch of youngsters over confident about a win playing with no heart... we came 2nd best to a team that got relegated... in a cup final. Nuff Said!

Some people say that AW was never the person to shout and scream.. no, he wasnt but he had people who would tear laidback cunts a new hole- Keown, Campbell, Vieira, Adams, Parlour etc. Who do we have now? Everyone is AW's love child and nobody will utter a word against him. AW is their father who hasnt done a thing wrong..
Coming to the point, I do not know if another manager wouldve secured top 4 after moving to Emirates but I bloody damn well know that he wouldve tried awfully hard to mesh experience with youth and not just abandoned all sense of sanity for the youth project.

[Niall_Quinn]

What's frustrating is that IMO he is the reason we're still top 4 (I think under most managers during the stadium move and with the rise and rise of the billionaire owner and other clubs spending big we'd have long since slipped out) but I also think he's the reason we've not won a trophy for so long as a mixture of stubbornness, idealism and poor coaching has seen us fail.
It's a maddening combination.

Wenger's performance precisely accommodates the financial project at the expense of the football team, it's easy enough to see that. If we needed to finish 3rd to qualify for the money, we would be 3rd every year. If 15th was enough then we'd finish 15th. It really isn't about the football at Arsenal any more. Not in a competitive sense anyway. The youth project fits nicely into the financial agenda too. Cheap fees, cheap wages, get a few years out of them and move them on. If they make it then grab the big transfer fees. Rinse and repeat. Until the Utd result. Maybe even the board has realised there's only so much the fans will put up with before the income stream is jeopardised. All about the money, all the time. And they are so fucking dishonest about it.

[Niall_Quinn]

The problem ALL AW backers fail to see is what he IS doing to the club. As far as my perception of the whole situation goes, its not the fact that AW has not won a trophy, it IS the fact that we do not even TRY. Back in the stone ages when we didnt win trophies, we put our best foot forward going into a season. We have a net profit in transfers yet they are not addressed. We have the same defensive frailties that are not addressed... how much more can a fan take?

Also another important thing to take note is that sooner rather than later, the big elite clubs will be miles ahead of others. This is not 1960 where all 20 teams starting the PL season has a chance to win the league. Times are different and for better or worse, it will remain the same. If we sit and procrastinate saying that we have gone zillions of years without a trophy, we can add 6 more to that, then thats a huge freakin mistake. We need to keep pace with the Utd's, Chelsea's, Barca's and Milan's of the world.

What are the fans really asking? Nobody I know has mentioned that we need to break the bank and sign a 50 million quid player. All we are asking is for some change in tactics, add some experience. Why couldnt Arteta, Santos, Mertesacker and Chu Young been added earlier? We have had glaring problems at CB position for years and IMO, it is yet not completely solved.. whose fault is it?

Wenger WAS good.. he is past it now. For his sake, I hope he doesnt tarnish his legacy at Arsenal.

As I've said before, I doubt he's gone from being the coach of the Invincibles to utterly incompetent in such a short space of time. Neither do I think he's past it. I just believe his job description is different now. Previously it was to manage a football team and win trophies, and he did that well. Since the stadium move it has been to manage finances and to be fair he's done that well too. Shame about the team though, the team and the fans got fucked.

[IBK]

What's frustrating is that IMO he is the reason we're still top 4 (I think under most managers during the stadium move and with the rise and rise of the billionaire owner and other clubs spending big we'd have long since slipped out) but I also think he's the reason we've not won a trophy for so long as a mixture of stubbornness, idealism and poor coaching has seen us fail.
It's a maddening combination.

Nail on head. The big question is whether we are now starting to drift downwards - not simply relative to the mega spenders but relative to the quality and performances of our own teams since 2006.

What frustrates me are the extremes. Wenger has been shown to be very much the flawed genius, but the way some people talk he has just seen us relegated!

[IBK]

I like the fact that because I don't want Wenger replaced by a know nothing, won nothing, noboby I automatically believe he's beyond any criticism.

And my name is ironic, but then again based on some of your arguments I wouldn't expect the *grown ups* in here to even know what that means.

Oh please. Stop being so childish. You take a high-minded approach belittling people on here as stupid, and then get all prickly when you are called on it. Get off your high horse.

[fakeyank]

Oh please. Stop being so childish. You take a high-minded approach belittling people on here as stupid, and then get all prickly when you are called on it. Get off your high horse.

From what I can understand, backing AW is the elite thing to do these days. Its what intellectuals do... the masses who want AW out are the dumbasses with no college education. You should be ashamed of your ignorance IBK.. in fact, I should be ashamed of myself too..

[GP]

Cool story bro