Arsenal on the slide?

[IBK]

Yes, I know - what we all need is another depressing article on the state of affairs at AFC. But over the past couple of seasons, I have started to think about trends, and whether, rather than a period of 'rebuilding' what we are seeing at AFC is the gradual decline - certainly of a once great manager, but even of our status as a proper, top club.

I wonder what it must have felt like at Liverpool - in the years after 89/90 - or Villa in the mid 1980's. I am sure that their fans thought that they were just a couple of signings away from a return to the top - that getting in the right manager would see the glory days return - just like many of us now. Of course I realise that our commercial basis is relatively sound - and that direct comparisons are difficult - but the competition is arguably a lot stronger now.

What is quite shocking ATM is the sheer depth of negativity and lack of hope that surrounds our club. This is clearly the case amongst the players as well as the fans. There is, and has been, an air of misery about the place for a while now - one that brings to mind a relegated club rather than one (hopefully) playing CL football next season.

I know I will be labelled 'knee jerk' or a band-waggoner by some - but to me the Arsenal spirit itself is deserting the club. This article http://www.onlinegooner.com/article....lusive&id=2331 from the Online Gooner last Saturday presents a view about what is happening at Arsenal that at present its very difficult not to sympathise with.

Thoughts?

[Coney]

After we had won the double in 1971, there was hope we would win some more silver. But the next year we fell short in the league and lost the FA Cup to a late goal by Leeds. Season after season, it just did not happen. If there had been a GW at the time I'm sure I'd have been able to look at loads of posts about the disaster of the Arsenal, how the manager/playerA/PlayerB/etc was a useless tosser / waste of space / rubbish buy / total cunt / etc and how if only the poster was manager it would all be sorted out and we'd then win lots of silver every year.. .. .. .. ..

[IBK]

Hey Coney - nice to hear from ya! An interesting point of perspective. 2 points here, though. The first seems to agree with my theory that we may be looking at a long period of decline. The second seems to take issue with the fact that there is a 'crisis' at the club.

Of course, none of us have a crystal ball. But without your historical points of reference, this sure feels like more than a temporary blip.

[Marc Overmars]

I've said this before but 5 years ago when it became apparent we were going to try and achieve success in a different way, the common theme was "give them a few years and this Arsenal team will be awesome" etc...

Well, here we are, several years later and we're in no better position. The truth is what we planned to do just hasn't worked out, therefore I don't buy into the notion of potential anymore, another year here, another year there, it doesn't matter. The reality we face is here and what good is planning for the future going to do when the team is stuck in such a rut right now? Someone at the club needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

[IBK]

The problem is how we plan for the future when the club's best players want out, and its starting to look like a vicious circle that is making the club a less attractive proposition for prospective best players?

[Marc Overmars]

The problem is how we plan for the future when the club's best players want out, and its starting to look like a vicious circle that is making the club a less attractive proposition for prospective best players?

That's exactly it. The team now has a very different flavour to it than the one just 3-4 years ago. Planning for the future is all well and good, but when that future is completely different to the one envisaged because of players always on the move, then what's the point? I'd wager that most of our team don't give a damn about Wenger's ideology, they're in it for themselves and if the team is not successful they won't hesitate in looking elsewhere, as we're seeing with Nasri now. You have to think even if he does sign a new deal, you can bet you bottom dollar he will be looking to leave if we don't bring in a trophy anytime soon.

[Özim]

We're in decline for sure, the reason being we're allowing it. Little or no investments, gambling on unknowns and kids and relying on other teams faltering seems to be our policy.

If we strived to improve and challenge this could so easily be stopped, but we seem to want to do the bare minimum and are happy to settle for 4th.

If we keep this up it will catch us out and we'll miss out on CL football eventually, could have happened this season if other teams hadn't faltered a bit and underperformed.

[IBK]

Aye - but the most depressing thing about it is that players are wanting out without being prepared to put their heart and soul into trying to achieve the success that's necessary. I can understand players lacking loyalty - what hurts is seeing them lacking any sense that it is a privilege playing for a club like Arsenal. That is what we are losing - hence why I have such sympathy with many of the points being made in the article.

[Kano]

there was a period in the 80's pre Graham when PHW and co were really under the cosh from the fans for where the club was heading and things changed.

what makes things worse now is the constant exposure to the media and football 24/7 which pumps up even the most sedate of fans into a frenzy.

certain things need to change but if the club was struggling financially, without a new owner wanting to implement a new vision long termand a manager that will change in the next few years then you may be right.

[Özim]

Aye - but the most depressing thing about it is that players are wanting out without being prepared to put their heart and soul into trying to achieve the success that's necessary. I can understand players lacking loyalty - what hurts is seeing them lacking any sense that it is a privilege playing for a club like Arsenal. That is what we are losing - hence why I have such sympathy with many of the points being made in the article.

The problem I see is they're probably as frustrated by what's happening as some of the fans (especially the better players). AW is so stubborn that he just won't do the necessary and after year after year of collapse it's hard to believe, we're basically a stepping stone club, the better players won't want to stay at a club that never achives success.

Another issue is that the team spirit which AW so often preaches about just isn't there.