Match Reaction vs Fulham 10/11/12

[Ollie the Optimist]

was i the only one that was genuinely happy when arteta missed the penalty

if you were genuinely happy at that, that makes you a massive ****

[Kano]

Right now, we just need someone to sort this lot out defensively.

He's not letting Bould do what he needs to do. What's the point in having a number two of you won't let him do what he's good at.....

Come to think of it, the loony won't let anyone do what they're best at.

Stopwatch triangle passing practice wanker!
that rumour comes from robson who has offered nothing substantial to back it up. it makes no sense to allow someone to start work, see it work well, then stop them. not even wenger is that nuts.

perhaps bould is just a shit defensive coach. sure he done alright with kids but this is with the big boys, different league and expectations. maybe what we saw at the start of the season was just enthusiasm from players and now that has worn off, i don't know.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't trust Wenger to properly replace Theo if he leaves. He'll probably sign someone like Zaha, and promote AOC to Walcott's position, which won't be satisfactory tbh. AOC hasn't really done anything this season and if we're honest has only had a couple of good performances in an Arsenal shirt (a fact that gets lost in the hype perpetuated by the media). Zaha may be talented, but he'll take time to adjust to a higher level of football.

Same was said about Theo and AOC

He knows he's not gonna get to play CF at any top club...the CF thing is just an excuse to leave our club... he knows he is most effective on the right for us and for England - if he starts playing up front he loses his england place - and am pretty sure he wouldn't sacrifice that. He'll be rotated with Valencia on the right wing at man u - and maybe play as striker in their COC games. Liverpool may be the club he supports - but there is no reason to go backwards is there?

Funny he knows he is effective on the right but people on here are crying cause they think he is better up top. So why is he not signing a deal then. He does play on the right for us so it can't be that.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Because people are still filling seats - that's why - last game I paid to see was Arsenal v Villa 27/12/09 - Cesc came on to score 2 and then went off injured, think we won 3-0 in the end... and I've been going regularly since 1993, singing my heart out all game but enough is enough now - not only am I pretty much priced out of a ticket, but why should I tolerate paying money to watch the team now? You can call me lesser of a fan, but I don't think so...it's exactly the problem with Arsenal right now - the fans tolerate what's going on. I absolutely hate the thought of Usmanov having anything to do with our club - but something needs to change with its direction somewhere - not usmanov or dein but something else.

the only thing the board had going for them in previous years was hope. hope that our players would buck up and win something. unfortunately as time passed we sold them all, one by one, and negated our squad to the most average point it has been in years. now they cant fall back on that hope because a load of us have seen light. a lot of friends have stopped going and loads of arsenal fans have given up. ive boycotted home games because a. the atmosphere is rubbish b. for a home game its way too expensive c. the emirates doesnt feel like home. i go to away games because the old army are there and its great to see everyone (plus the fact i love away days) and i personally think the players deserve some sort of support when stepping foot in another territory, after all, its not their fault the board and manager are acting this way. but even that commitment has died down to once every so often.

its a shame but thats the way it is. i dont think the board want dinosaurs at the games anyway. we dont put up with this tosh, unlike the new breed.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Why were you genuinely happy? Most true gooners would take a free three points

Answered your own question there, the poster is not a gooner.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

that rumour comes from robson who has offered nothing substantial to back it up. it makes no sense to allow someone to start work, see it work well, then stop them. not even wenger is that nuts.

perhaps bould is just a shit defensive coach. sure he done alright with kids but this is with the big boys, different league and expectations. maybe what we saw at the start of the season was just enthusiasm from players and now that has worn off, i don't know.

:gp:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

season over in november. how is this tolerated every year?

we barely kick off and we know we're not winning anything.

how depressing.
Yet we still hope and won't give up till we are out of everything, thats what we do.

[Bergkampwonderland10]

Same was said about Theo and AOC


Funny he knows he is effective on the right but people on here are crying cause they think he is better up top. So why is he not signing a deal then. He does play on the right for us so it can't be that.

The CF demand is purely to detract from the money he wants and the fact what he really wants is out, sadly. Can't blame him really...the club is a shambles right now - how he ever got down to his last year in his contract is incredible...and there is no way we'll be offering him CL at the end of this season - so he will refuse to sign and be sold in Jan to ...man u...can't really see any other scenario to be fair. Man u need an extra midfielder - he's played with van persie before, he's finally learnt how to cross and he scores a goal or two...they'll get him for less than we paid for him I'm sure as well.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

the only thing the board had going for them in previous years was hope. hope that our players would buck up and win something. unfortunately as time passed we sold them all, one by one, and negated our squad to the most average point it has been in years. now they cant fall back on that hope because a load of us have seen light. a lot of friends have stopped going and loads of arsenal fans have given up. ive boycotted home games because a. the atmosphere is rubbish b. for a home game its way too expensive c. the emirates doesnt feel like home. i go to away games because the old army are there and its great to see everyone (plus the fact i love away days) and i personally think the players deserve some sort of support when stepping foot in another territory, after all, its not their fault the board and manager are acting this way. but even that commitment has died down to once every so often.

its a shame but thats the way it is. i dont think the board want dinosaurs at the games anyway. we dont put up with this tosh, unlike the new breed.

Think that was the plan and winning the CC a few years ago, would have been something to shut the fans up. I agree with Bergkampwonderland10 i too don't want the fat russian in charge of this club, but something does need to be done.

Not sure why Dein thought it would be a good idea to ever bring Stan to the club.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The CF demand is purely to detract from the money he wants and the fact what he really wants is out, sadly. Can't blame him really...the club is a shambles right now - how he ever got down to his last year in his contract is incredible...and there is no way we'll be offering him CL at the end of this season - so he will refuse to sign and be sold in Jan to ...man u...can't really see any other scenario to be fair. Man u need an extra midfielder - he's played with van persie before, he's finally learnt how to cross and he scores a goal or two...they'll get him for less than we paid for him I'm sure as well.

He'd have to be much much better then he is to go to Utd. You have to be ready when you go there, no messing around and no time for his inconsistant performances. he would have to up his game 110%, funny though loads of utd fans i've asked if they would want him, not one did. Yeah i know it means nothing.

[Kano]

Think that was the plan and winning the CC a few years ago, would have been something to shut the fans up. I agree with Bergkampwonderland10 i too don't want the fat russian in charge of this club, but something does need to be done.

Not sure why Dein thought it would be a good idea to ever bring Stan to the club.
he done a lot of good things for us but the introduction of stan, with dein's departure ending with a huge pay off selling to russian smells just as dodgy as the bs all our current and former share holders have been up to.

[Bergkampwonderland10]

its a shame but thats the way it is. i dont think the board wantdinosaurs at the games anyway. we dont put up with this tosh :) Well I know I'm getting on a bit at 32 but not been included in the dinosaur category before!!
I followed Arsenal since '88 when I first started to understand the game really - and it's been a real journey - nayim from the half way line - still hurts like it was yesterday as does our CL league final loss- but it's the last few seasons have really not been enjoyable at all - and it's sad to feel deflated and even indifferent towards something that used to offer such a rollercoaster of emotions- am hoping there's a way out of the rut and Arsenal can become the club I once saw it as, not perfect, but all heart. maybe it's with dinosaur age, you just become a little more cynical, realistic, and accepting that what we had, we will never experience again.
Am calling it a night - far too depressing to think about. :tumbleweed:

[Injury Time]

How was it for those brave enough to tune in or better yet attend
Utter wank (other than our first two goals, great link/ perfectly timed runs/ good finishes).

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Think that was the plan and winning the CC a few years ago, would have been something to shut the fans up. I agree with Bergkampwonderland10 i too don't want the fat russian in charge of this club, but something does need to be done.

Not sure why Dein thought it would be a good idea to ever bring Stan to the club.

yeah that CC defeat was where it all began. we never recovered from that defeat. if we won the carling cup i genuinely believe it would have kickstarted a serious run and belief in our squad. players would have gained some sort of winning mentality and it may have opened the floodgates. instead what happened was that we lost and the team went awol. we hit rock bottom. players stopped believing in wenger and his policies and that was the point we should have departed. what we are seeing now is the dragging out of the inevitable to help the status quo milk their millions for every pound they can. we are nothing but a bunch of peasants aimlessly roaming the streets, compounded by the social elite above us who look down with disgust, sipping their fine wine and feasting on their banquet.

[Kano]

Utter wank (other than our first two goals, great link/ perfectly timed runs/ good finishes).
what were you more angry at when you left the stadium - missing the pen, giroud for not taking it or our defence for letting the game slip?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

:) Well I know I'm getting on a bit at 32 but not been included in the dinosaur category before!!
I followed Arsenal since '88 when I first started to understand the game really - and it's been a real journey - nayim from the half way line - still hurts like it was yesterday as does our CL league final loss- but it's the last few seasons have really not been enjoyable at all - and it's sad to feel deflated and even indifferent towards something that used to offer such a rollercoaster of emotions- am hoping there's a way out of the rut and Arsenal can become the club I once saw it as, not perfect, but all heart. maybe it's with dinosaur age, you just become a little more cynical, realistic, and accepting that what we had, we will never experience again.
Am calling it a night - far too depressing to think about. :tumbleweed:

1991 i started following the boys. 8 years old with all my mates at school and ever since then i have been in love with this club. I was never your season ticket type, just could not afford one. Like you say we have seen bad times and amazing times.

Even at the Emirates the 1st 4 years were ok, i don't think i was expecting us to win anything big in that time as we were paying of the staduim. But for most of that time we played the best footie in the country. Now we don't even do that.

The days when Gooners use to shout "who cares about the league cup, its a mickey mouse cup". How times change eh. I suppose knowing we will won day win something again soon gets me going.


he done a lot of good things for us but the introduction of stan, with dein's departure ending with a huge pay off selling to russian smells just as dodgy as the bs all our current and former share holders have been up to.

Pretty much all as bad at the other. Only good thing Dein did was keep AW on the straight and narrow. Though he did stilly things too, like trying to get us to play at wembely.

[Bergkampwonderland10]

what were you more angry at when you left the stadium - missing the pen, giroud for not taking it or our defence for letting the game slip?
Giroud for not taking the pen for me...sorry I am a fan of his...love his movement, think he's a great addition and now he's scoring ... but...he came here saying 'he didn't expect to play, he thought he'd be a sub' just not the mentality this team needs to have let alone broadcast in public - and today, if he's to become a world beater, a risk-taker - he should have grabbed that ball from Arteta without a moments thought....sadly he is not going to be a world-beater - just a good player with another - 'accepting' personality.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:) Well I know I'm getting on a bit at 32 but not been included in the dinosaur category before!!
I followed Arsenal since '88 when I first started to understand the game really - and it's been a real journey - nayim from the half way line - still hurts like it was yesterday as does our CL league final loss- but it's the last few seasons have really not been enjoyable at all - and it's sad to feel deflated and even indifferent towards something that used to offer such a rollercoaster of emotions- am hoping there's a way out of the rut and Arsenal can become the club I once saw it as, not perfect, but all heart. maybe it's with dinosaur age, you just become a little more cynical, realistic, and accepting that what we had, we will never experience again.
Am calling it a night - far too depressing to think about. :tumbleweed:

the old school dont put up with this rubbish. they question every decision and demand answers. they understand wenger built much of the standards we now expect but they also expect those standards to be kept, not used as an excuse to blindly defend wenger. we wouldnt be here without wenger but its no excuse to accept defeat and feel sorry for ourselves. for how many years do you pray an old dog learns new tricks? the same dog who had success almost a decade ago? we're sitting here complaining about a poor squad when there's resources to be spent. there are no excuses.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

yeah that CC defeat was where it all began. we never recovered from that defeat. if we won the carling cup i genuinely believe it would have kickstarted a serious run and belief in our squad. players would have gained some sort of winning mentality and it may have opened the floodgates. instead what happened was that we lost and the team went awol. we hit rock bottom. players stopped believing in wenger and his policies and that was the point we should have departed. what we are seeing now is the dragging out of the inevitable to help the status quo milk their millions for every pound they can. we are nothing but a bunch of peasants aimlessly roaming the streets, compounded by the social elite above us who look down with disgust, sipping their fine wine and feasting on their banquet.

I know this may sound arrogant, but i really do think had we won that CC we'd have won the league that year too. Like you said players lost faith even if they are C***S. It showed we to Old Trafford got knocked out the fa cup. Not to mention that Cl game, where Cesc thought he was already on Messi's team and that Bendtner miss and RVP getting sent off.
Personally, i hope we win the CC and Wenger resigns, with some diginty at least, then we can rebuild.

I'll never give up hope.

[Dicks and chicks]

Answered your own question there, the poster is not a gooner.

most true gooners would have seen a win as paper cover up the cracks. We didn't deserve to win, the more bad results we get the more ivan and stan will be forced to change their mentality towards our football club

[Bergkampwonderland10]

I'll never give up hope.

Here's hoping :trophy:

[Injury Time]

what were you more angry at when you left the stadium - missing the pen, giroud for not taking it or our defence for letting the game slip?
Our "midfield" & "defence" for being non existent, unorganised, weak minded bags of such rancid gash that even a GUM clinic would just kill them with fire for stinking so bad.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

the old school dont put up with this rubbish. they question every decision and demand answers. they understand wenger built much of the standards we now expect but they also expect those standards to be kept, not used as an excuse to blindly defend wenger. we wouldnt be here without wenger but its no excuse to accept defeat and feel sorry for ourselves. for how many years do you pray an old dog learns new tricks? the same dog who had success almost a decade ago? we're sitting here complaining about a poor squad when there's resources to be spent. there are no excuses.

Spot on, got to say your a top poster and the fact you go to away games and stay there when were 4-0 down to Reading shows you fucking care. No one can tell me diffrent.

I think its a generational thing, Those that have only Known Wenger as our manager will defend him more, cause they are scared of whats coming next. Those who known the likes of GG etc, Know the unknown to have been good, AKA Wengers early years. You also have the oldies, who saw games in the 70's and had times that were much worse then this, so i guess they keep the faith.

I mean Pool fans in the 70's have been much lucky then Pool fans now.

[Seaman's Ponytail]

what were you more angry at when you left the stadium - missing the pen, giroud for not taking it or our defence for letting the game slip?

Yep that's the question to ask and the only answer is the defence. Anyone can miss a pen so it's not Arteta's fault (even though he was pure crap today). You can't blame Giroud when we all know Wenger has pre-determined the penalty takers. Giroud was our best player in both attack and defence. On the few occasions we effectively cleared a set piece it was always Giroud winner the headers out. For all of Merts good reading of games, critical interceptions etc this season the guy is appalling in the air. Kos is just a constant brain fart and Sagna seemed to have the wrong studs on as he spent more time on his arse.
We seriously miss Gibbs in both a defensive and attacking sense. We had no go forward down our left flank at all today.

I just finished watching the Everton game, Fellaini is surely a must-get in January

[Olivier's xmas twist]

most true gooners would have seen a win as paper cover up the cracks. We didn't deserve to win, the more bad results we get the more ivan and stan will be forced to change their mentality towards our football club

Yeah but we still would have loved the 3 points. Thats as dumb as saying id have loved us to miss a pen in the final of the fa cup because at leat then it will show the board how bad we are.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yep that's the question to ask and the only answer is the defence. Anyone can miss a pen so it's not Arteta's fault (even though he was pure crap today). You can't blame Giroud when we all know Wenger has pre-determined the penalty takers. Giroud was our best player in both attack and defence. On the few occasions we effectively cleared a set piece it was always Giroud winner the headers out. For all of Merts good reading of games, critical interceptions etc this season the guy is appalling in the air. Kos is just a constant brain fart and Sagna seemed to have the wrong studs on as he spent more time on his arse.
We seriously miss Gibbs in both a defensive and attacking sense. We had no go forward down our left flank at all today.

I just finished watching the Everton game, Fellaini is surely a must-get in January

We miss Gibbs and Jenks tbh. Jenks never should have been dropped. We miss Chesney too we really do. I just don't think our defence has faith in Mannoe like it does Ches.

Like you say anyone can miss a pen and if he scored it would be a diffrent issue, we'd be saying good win but how the defence we need to improve.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Our "midfield" & "defence" for being non existent, unorganised, weak minded bags of such rancid gash that even a GUM clinic would just kill them with fire for stinking so bad.

GUM clinics :bow:

giving charlie hope since last friday :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Here's hoping :trophy:

:gp:

[Cripps_orig]

Giroud for not taking the pen for me...sorry I am a fan of his...love his movement, think he's a great addition and now he's scoring ... but...he came here saying 'he didn't expect to play, he thought he'd be a sub' just not the mentality this team needs to have let alone broadcast in public - and today, if he's to become a world beater, a risk-taker - he should have grabbed that ball from Arteta without a moments thought....sadly he is not going to be a world-beater - just a good player with another - 'accepting' personality.
:lol:

He doesnt have any

[Cripps_orig]

was i the only one that was genuinely happy when arteta missed the penalty

I wouldnt say i was happy but i expected it so wasnt too upset.

I am a naturally optimistic poster though so i see the best in every situation and him missing means we dont paper over the cracks that a win will surely have done

[Seaman's Ponytail]

:lol:

He doesnt have any

He actually does a lot defensively which he shouldn't have to do so he's probably too tired by the time he gets back up front! He's a decent target man who'd do a lot more for us in a 4-4-2 system imo

[Cripps_orig]

He actually does a lot defensively which he shouldn't have to do so he's probably too tired by the time he gets back up front! He's a decent target man who'd do a lot more for us in a 4-4-2 system imo

As would all our players

Giroud in fact was pretty good today in holding up play and winning headers for no one to run on to as he was on his own upfront.

Wenger doesnt have a clue

[Olivier's xmas twist]

As would all our players

Giroud in fact was pretty good today in holding up play and winning headers for no one to run on to as he was on his own upfront.

Wenger doesnt have a clue

Someone like Theo does not need Wenger to tell him to run onto one of those balls. Time players used the brains tbh.

[Cripps_orig]

Someone like Theo does not need Wenger to tell him to run onto one of those balls. Time players used the brains tbh.
Well if hes stuck on the right then he cant run on to them

[Aida]

I think it has something to with training because when we are good up front, We are dreadful at the back and vice versa. So i think we need to find a balance, It don't help we have not replaced Alex song who was actually extremely vital to giving us stability in supporting our defense. i think Arteta clearly does not have the natural ability to do so.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Well if hes stuck on the right then he cant run on to them

Not an excuse. I see Utd and Chav wingers do it all the time.

[Cripps_orig]

Not an excuse. I see Utd and Chav wingers do it all the time.

Probably cos their managers, both of whom are miles better than Wenger have told them to run on to any flick ons etc whereas our beloved manager has told players to keep their positions otherwise we might actually score from direct football and that cant be happening

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Probably cos their managers, both of whom are miles better than Wenger have told them to run on to any flick ons etc whereas our beloved manager has told players to keep their positions otherwise we might actually score from direct football and that cant be happening

Well no, None of our players really stay in their posititons throughout the game,they change about anyways. down to them to use their brains to get into spaces.

Maybe if players like Theo, like Gev, like Santi used the brains we'd be better off.

[Xhaka Can’t]

most true gooners would have seen a win as paper cover up the cracks. We didn't deserve to win, the more bad results we get the more ivan and stan will be forced to change their mentality towards our football club

No, it is more like us hoping they'll change their mentality towards the club.

They won't.

Kroenke has presided over the decline of the best team in the NHL to a steaming pile of turd that has lost all it's stars and pays just marginally above the salary cap floor.

[Marc Overmars]

I'd say we are actually more direct these days, I can't think of too many tippy tappy constructed goals we've scored this season. The problem is that we don't do it often enough because we're preoccupied with trying to perfect a style of play that just isn't suited to us and never will be.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I'd say we are actually more direct these days, I can't think of too many tippy tappy constructed goals we've scored this season. The problem is that we don't do it often enough because we're preoccupied with trying to perfect a style of play that just isn't suited to us and never will be.

Pretty much, we seem to hoof it up more these days then anything. Where has years ago we still pass with 1 min to go if we were losing, now we just hoof it to whoever is up top.

[Özim]

Yeah I'd say we more direct too, more directly sh*t than in previous years.

At least in previous years we hid it better, now we're just so obviously sh*t everywhere you look.

Re-building / Progress :trophy:

Also some great news even after tomorrow we'll still be in the top 4, the top 4 in London

Top 4 trophies :trophy:

Wenger :bow:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

No, it is more like us hoping they'll change their mentality towards the club.

They won't.

Kroenke has presided over the decline of the best team in the NHL to a steaming pile of turd that has lost all it's stars and pays just marginally above the salary cap floor.

Really never knew that, how is he with his other sports ventures?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yeah I'd say we more direct too, more directly sh*t than in previous years.

At least in previous years we hid it better, now we're just so obviously sh*t everywhere you look.

Re-building / Progress :trophy:

Also some great news even after tomorrow we'll still be in the top 4, the top 4 in London

Top 4 trophies :trophy:

Wenger :bow:

Zimms Meltdown complete.

[Power n Glory]

They were showing the full game on Sky for Game of the Day and was going to watch the full match because I usually like to see what worked, what didn't and just how the game panned out. But I really can't be bothered today and it's not worth the analysis. Fed up of all the discussion and analysis and just want to see Wenger do something different. This is tiresome, repetitive and bloody embarassing at times. What the fuck is wrong with Wenger! This must be his 5th post Invincible team and we have the same problems and more. It's getting worse as the years pass and he's doing nothing to stop the rot.

[Özim]

They were showing the full game on Sky for Game of the Day and was going to watch the full match because I usually like to see what worked, what didn't and just how the game panned out. But I really can't be bothered today and it's not worth the analysis. Fed up of all the discussion and analysis and just want to see Wenger do something different. This is tiresome, repetitive and bloody embarassing at times. What the fuck is wrong with Wenger! This must be his 5th post Invincible team and we have the same problems and more. It's getting worse as the years pass and he's doing nothing to stop the rot.
Oh :unsure:

So the spirit and togetherness doesn't quite cut it for you either?

[Dicks and chicks]

No, it is more like us hoping they'll change their mentality towards the club.

They won't.

Kroenke has presided over the decline of the best team in the NHL to a steaming pile of turd that has lost all it's stars and pays just marginally above the salary cap floor.
seriously!? what nhl team? fuck how come the board don't recognise this.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

theo's corners are good nowadays. we actually look a threat.

scored from 3 corner's in the 7-5 vs reading and he took all 3. another 1 today.

practicing for when he has to link up with yaya and the boys.

[Mr. Lahey]

I think he's dogshite yeah, I guess he could prove me wrong. Don't think the guy has the ability of bottle though to be honest, the day we finally go out pay and buy a decent striker will be a happy one for me.

I've had my fill of these nobodies from the French league for a lifetime.

The guy scores 24 for a title winning side, including the title winning goal and some bum from his arm chair is calling him a bottler:haha: there are many problems at the club but you need to get a grip.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

They were showing the full game on Sky for Game of the Day and was going to watch the full match because I usually like to see what worked, what didn't and just how the game panned out. But I really can't be bothered today and it's not worth the analysis. Fed up of all the discussion and analysis and just want to see Wenger do something different. This is tiresome, repetitive and bloody embarassing at times. What the fuck is wrong with Wenger! This must be his 5th post Invincible team and we have the same problems and more. It's getting worse as the years pass and he's doing nothing to stop the rot.

Yeah but the diffrence is th others have quality at this team has not many. Don't matter what way you play, with little quality things will always be the same.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

The guy scores 24 for a title winning side, including the title winning goal and some bum from his arm chair is calling him a bottler:haha: there are many problems at the club but you need to get a grip.

:haha:

Sorry but had to laugh.

[Power n Glory]

Yeah but the diffrence is th others have quality at this team has not many. Don't matter what way you play, with little quality things will always be the same.

Another throwaway comment from Charlie. Bravo!

What point are you trying to make?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Another throwaway comment from Charlie. Bravo!

What point are you trying to make?


This is the worse sqaud out of the 5, least the others had quality. They may not have won anything, but some of those teams played Excellent football.

They had players like Nasri, like RVC, Like Cesc etc. Now there is not one peiece of quality in the team. IMO even if we played a 442 it won't stop the team being woeful, might be diffrent but can things change that much.

[Marc Overmars]

Why didn't Mannone dive?

Just pick a side, the pressure is on the taker.

Come back Chesney, all is forgiven.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The Colorado Avalanche.

One of the lowest spenders in the NHL. And they suck ass.



seriously!? what nhl team? fuck how come the board don't recognise this.

[Cripps_orig]

Why didn't Mannone dive?

Just pick a side, the pressure is on the taker.

Come back Chesney, all is forgiven.

And people laughed when i said we needed a keeper

Look whos laughing now..................not me cos im gutted that i am once again proved right :(

[Xhaka Can’t]

Saw me and my son on tv in the lead up to the Podolski goal.

[Özim]

The guy scores 24 for a title winning side, including the title winning goal and some bum from his arm chair is calling him a bottler:haha: there are many problems at the club but you need to get a grip.
:lol: He scores some goals in a mickey mouse league and take him seriously!

He's been sh*t in front of goal to be honest and missed tap after tap in (embarrassingly so), yes there are many problems at the club....bottlers is one of those many problems. Incidentally Shearer said he was disappointed Giroud didn't grab the ball and take it...he was spot on. A couple goals and all is forgiven apparently :lol:

What can you do though, bottlers will bottle it. :shrug:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

And people laughed when i said we needed a keeper

Look whos laughing now..................not me cos im gutted that i am once again proved right :(

spot on

many said we dont need to strengthen GK department but it was obvious we did. im not gonna name them they know who they are. cesar would have been decent, he's been excellent for qpr.

BWK's :bow:

[Mr. Lahey]

:lol: He scores some goals in a mickey mouse league and take him seriously!

He's been sh*t in front of goal to be honest and missed tap after tap in (embarrassingly so), yes there are many problems at the club....bottlers is one of those many problems. Incidentally Shearer said he was disappointed Giroud didn't grab the ball and take it...he was spot on. A couple goals and all is forgiven apparently :lol:

What can you do though, bottlers will bottle it. :shrug:

Thing is, he hasnt been shit. He has been our best forward this season involved in alot of the good stuff we do. He has more goals and assists than your boy Podolski but you would dare not to slate him! At least be consistent! I still dont know how someone bottles a goal when they dont even shoot? And before you say he should have stepped up, Wenger has put that business to bed, there is arranged PEn takers so whats he suppose to do? Grab the ball from one of our most senior players and take it anyway?

[Power n Glory]

This is the worse sqaud out of the 5, least the others had quality. They may not have won anything, but some of those teams played Excellent football.

They had players like Nasri, like RVC, Like Cesc etc. Now there is not one peiece of quality in the team. IMO even if we played a 442 it won't stop the team being woeful, might be diffrent but can things change that much.

As said in my original post, this is Wenger's 5th team since his best and we are getting worse. Did you miss that?

[Dicks and chicks]

The Colorado Avalanche.

One of the lowest spenders in the NHL. And they suck ass.

were they good before Silent Stan take-over, if so :(

[Özim]

Thing is, he hasnt been shit. He has been our best forward this season involved in alot of the good stuff we do. He has more goals and assists than your boy Podolski but you would dare not to slate him! At least be consistent! I still dont know how someone bottles a goal when they dont even shoot? And before you say he should have stepped up, Wenger has put that business to bed, there is arranged PEn takers so whats he suppose to do? Grab the ball from one of our most senior players and take it anyway?
1) Podolski isn't my boy, he's barely scored and been anonymous and I've criticised him, but then ******* plays him on the wing where he has no impact so it's hardly surprising

2) Giroud has had a few good touches, so what....in front of goal he's been embarrassing up until today missing 5 yard chances regularly

3) I think he bottled it for one reason, he's on a hattrick, full of confidence...any decent striker would be dying to pick up that ball and have a go to get their hattrick and noone would question them if they did, because that's what happens when a player is on a hattrick. The fact he didn't shows a lack of belief and confidence for me which isn't a good trait for a forward.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:lol: He scores some goals in a mickey mouse league and take him seriously!

He's been sh*t in front of goal to be honest and missed tap after tap in (embarrassingly so), yes there are many problems at the club....bottlers is one of those many problems. Incidentally Shearer said he was disappointed Giroud didn't grab the ball and take it...he was spot on. A couple goals and all is forgiven apparently :lol:

What can you do though, bottlers will bottle it. :shrug:

bit harsh on Jude

he's been alright everytime he's had service

which has been never tbh. feeding off scraps. you can stick pele up there but without service he'd have no impact.

[Cripps_orig]

Play to Girouds strengths ie anything in the air and nothing to feet and he will be decent

[Olivier's xmas twist]

As said in my original post, this is Wenger's 5th team since his best and we are getting worse. Did you miss that?

No, and i stated a reason why they were getting worse.

[Özim]

bit harsh on Jude

he's been alright everytime he's had service

which has been never tbh. feeding off scraps. you can stick pele up there but without service he'd have no impact.
He's done OK and that's generous, but how many simple chances has he spurned....quite a lot.

It's not his fault Wenger brought him in, at the end of the day though we need someone to replace RVP's goals, if he doesn't he'll get criticism.....do you think RVP, Henry or even Wright would have let someone else take that penalty when on a hattrick?

He got a couple today and fair play, do I think he's the answer....no I reckon he'd be a good plan B and sub, we should sign a goalscorer like Huntelaar IMO.

[Cripps_orig]

He got a couple today and fair play, do I think he's the answer....no I reckon he'd be a good plan B and sub, we should sign a goalscorer like Huntelaar IMO.

Pretty much

[Mr. Lahey]

1) The playing on the wing point doesnt hold, hes played sooo many times out there for Germany he should be used to it. And if Germany arent playing him down the middle, Arsenal dont play him down the middle, i think its safe to say his best position is not CF like him and Theo think they should be playing. I remember everyone on the playing ground wanting to play CF, it stinks of school boys stuff.

2) He has been far from embarassing and you wonder why people give you a hard time on here given you over exaggerate to to the extreme to try and make a point.

3) Its a moot point, Wenger has even said previously there is a set order there is nothing left here to discuss. You cant bottle anything when you arent the one calling the shots.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He's done OK and that's generous, but how many simple chances has he spurned....quite a lot.

It's not his fault Wenger brought him in, at the end of the day though we need someone to replace RVP's goals, if he doesn't he'll get criticism.....do you think RVP, Henry or even Wright would have let someone else take that penalty when on a hattrick?

He got a couple today and fair play, do I think he's the answer....no I reckon he'd be a good plan B and sub, we should sign a goalscorer like Huntelaar IMO.

Yes if they know their is a system in place. Its a silly question anyways RVP and Henry were our 1st pen takers anyways. So they would be 1st to take them.

Don't see the problem tbh.

[Xhaka Can’t]

were they good before Silent Stan take-over, if so :(

Won their second second - and last Stanley Cup in 2001 - a year after Kroenke bought them and too soon for him to have fucked them up.

They incidentally are another Club who have a loyal support base, having set an NHL record for consecutive sell outs.

They have steadily declined under his ownership - but they make money - or at least they did.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

1) The playing on the wing point doesnt hold, hes played sooo many times out there for Germany he should be used to it. And if Germany arent playing him down the middle, Arsenal dont play him down the middle, i think its safe to say his best position is not CF like him and Theo think they should be playing. I remember everyone on the playing ground wanting to play CF, it stinks of school boys stuff.

2) He has been far from embarassing and you wonder why people give you a hard time on here given you over exaggerate to to the extreme to try and make a point.

3) Its a moot point, Wenger has even said previously there is a set order there is nothing left here to discuss. You cant bottle anything when you arent the one calling the shots.

Spot on.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Won their second second - and last Stanley Cup in 2001 - a year after Kroenke bought them and too soon for him to have fucked them up.

They incidentally are another Club who have a loyal support base, having set an NHL record for consecutive sell outs.

They have steadily declined under his ownership - but they make money - or at least they did.


What about the Denver nuggets?

[Xhaka Can’t]

What about the Denver nuggets?

I don't follow BBL

[Power n Glory]

No, and i stated a reason why they were getting worse.

Bravo! Fuckin Einstein. I don't think anyone clocked on to that. Genius.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Bravo! Fuckin Einstein. I don't think anyone clocked on to that. Genius.

A little bit pissed off?

[Özim]

1) The playing on the wing point doesnt hold, hes played sooo many times out there for Germany he should be used to it. And if Germany arent playing him down the middle, Arsenal dont play him down the middle, i think its safe to say his best position is not CF like him and Theo think they should be playing. I remember everyone on the playing ground wanting to play CF, it stinks of school boys stuff.

2) He has been far from embarassing and you wonder why people give you a hard time on here given you over exaggerate to to the extreme to try and make a point.

3) Its a moot point, Wenger has even said previously there is a set order there is nothing left here to discuss. You cant bottle anything when you arent the one calling the shots.
1) Germany have quality forwards, he doesn't play up front due to the competition. Wenger doesn't play him there basically because he's clueless.....he's got a record of playing players out of position where they are ineffective, he hit the jackpot once or twice and now thinks he can play strikers in defence for some reason. In addition Germany play a different game, he's not a twinkle toed winger, he'll run ...our tippy tappy sh*t won't work with him on the wing...that's not his game.

2) Far from embarrassing, have you seen the number of 5 yard misses, frankly I don't overly what he does outside the area to be honest unfortunately that's all Wenger cares about and that's the problem...we need goals from forwards, he's had some decent touches but his finishing has been awful.

3) Not really, if you're on a hattrick and have character you grab the ball and take it regardless of pre-determined order...and any manager who gets angry at that is a tool...players on a hattrick always get first refusal on penalties, it's always been like that.

[Dicks and chicks]

Won their second second - and last Stanley Cup in 2001 - a year after Kroenke bought them and too soon for him to have fucked them up.

They incidentally are another Club who have a loyal support base, having set an NHL record for consecutive sell outs.

They have steadily declined under his ownership - but they make money - or at least they did.
i hope you're making this up :( stan sounds like a miserable businessman

[Özim]

4 comes after 3 not 2.

Zimm :rose:
Charlie :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

i hope you're making this up :( stan sounds like a miserable businessman

You can see why the board let him in.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

He's done OK and that's generous, but how many simple chances has he spurned....quite a lot.

It's not his fault Wenger brought him in, at the end of the day though we need someone to replace RVP's goals, if he doesn't he'll get criticism.....do you think RVP, Henry or even Wright would have let someone else take that penalty when on a hattrick?

He got a couple today and fair play, do I think he's the answer....no I reckon he'd be a good plan B and sub, we should sign a goalscorer like Huntelaar IMO.

problem with huntelaar is he does nothing. literally.

he stands in the box and expects service. but when he gets it he's lethal.

for a team that creates nothing he'd be useless here. we need a work horse, a tevez not a huntelaar.

jude's improving though and he'll get better. the problem is we dont have time.

play jude at united he'd get 20+ goals a season in the league. here we'll be lucky to see him get half of that this year.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I'm not.

They play in the same division as my team - Calgary Flames and we are a middle of the road team, always on the cusp of either making or missing the play-offs and we are pretty much guaranteed the win every time we play the Avs.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

i hope you're making this up :( stan sounds like a miserable businessman

How can he been making it up when the same shit is happening before you very eyes.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

problem with huntelaar is he does nothing. literally.

.

Pretty much, add to the fact, he flopped at every big club he has been at. Better strikers out their then him.

[Özim]

problem with huntelaar is he does nothing. literally.

he stands in the box and expects service. but when he gets it he's lethal.

for a team that creates nothing he'd be useless here. we need a work horse, a tevez not a huntelaar.

jude's improving though and he'll get better. the problem is we dont have time.

play giroud at united he'd get 20+ goals a season in the league. here we'll be lucky to see him get half of that this year.
I have to admit I think Tevez is overrated, Aguero yes as he's far superior, skill finishing etc but Tevez not for me.

IMO strikers are there to score goals, if they don't do anything else fine, Wright did nothing but score but he was fantastic and got us out of jail countless times.

[Marc Overmars]

Pretty much, add to the fact, he flopped at every big club he has been at. Better strikers out their then him.

We're not a big club so he'd be fine here.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I have to admit I think Tevez is overrated, Aguero yes as he's far superior, skill finishing etc but Tevez not for me.

IMO strikers are there to score goals, if they don't do anything else fine, Wright did nothing but score but he was fantastic and got us out of jail countless times.

:haha:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Bravo! Fuckin Einstein. I don't think anyone clocked on to that. Genius.

At what stage did we agree to just casually refer to charlie as einstein non-stop? Should we just give up the pretense of being an Arsenal forum any more?

[Özim]

Pretty much, add to the fact, he flopped at every big club he has been at. Better strikers out their then him.
Yeah but then you thought Tevez was better than Aguero and that Aguero would flop :Lolz:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We're not a big club so he'd be fine here.

Well no like WW said we need a work horse. not someone who just stands around expecting to get service. He maybe a good finisher, but there are much better and useful strikers we could get.

Edin Dzeko is what we need.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think Giroud should be given more of a chance before being harshly judged. His play has been generally good - he works hard and he is starting to see personal rewards for this.

But lets face it, Arsenal is not a positive place to be right now - the whole aura of the place is seeped in negativity, and it must be a tough place for all our new signings to be. The level of frustration and absence of patience is palpable and is complemented by a press smelling blood and a Management and Board that are living on planet Zog if they actually believe a word that comes out of their own mouths.

Even if Arsenal were to decide to break the bank in January and try to make a top signing, if you were that prospective top signing - would you want to come here?

[Cripps_orig]

Pretty much, add to the fact, he flopped at every big club he has been at. Better strikers out their then him.

Who gives a shit how he did at clubs years ago?

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

I have to admit I think Tevez is overrated, Aguero yes as he's far superior, skill finishing etc but Tevez not for me.

IMO strikers are there to score goals, if they don't do anything else fine, Wright did nothing but score but he was fantastic and got us out of jail countless times.

http://lycanthropia.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Edward-Norton-Closing-Laptop.gif


please dont let this be another joker situation on GW

zimm :rose:

for what you were and not what you became :rose:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Yeah but then you thought Tevez was better than Aguero and that Aguero would flop :Lolz:

Tevez was better then him at that time and still is, never ever said he would flop, i said he might not adapt to this leauge as alot of South Americans tend to.

[Cripps_orig]

Yeah but then you thought Tevez was better than Aguero and that Aguero would flop :Lolz:

I rate Tevez tbh but i remember the Aguero thing

:lol:

[Kano]

tevez has pretty much a 1 in 2 record at city and united. aguero has the edge for me too but tevez is far from overrated.

[Özim]

http://lycanthropia.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Edward-Norton-Closing-Laptop.gif


please dont let this be another joker situation on GW

zimm :rose:

for what you were and not what you became :rose:
I don't think he's that great, Aguero yes as the guy makes things happen..Tevez I've never been a big fan of...works hard sure but lacks the finesse of the very best.

I'm not saying he's not a very good striker, just that maybe he's not as good as some people think.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Who gives a shit how he did at clubs years ago?

Yeah, so good that why a host of top clubs are after him even when he is nearing a free. Maybe if he did better at those clubs they would be.

[Power n Glory]

A little bit pissed off?

A tad, yeah. :lol:

[Özim]

Tevez was better then him at that time and still is, never ever said he would flop, i said he might not adapt to this leauge as alot of South Americans tend to.
Sorry but you don't have a clue, Aguero was amazing in Spain and you could always tell he was going to be amazing. He always had far more in his locker than Tevez, problem with you is you can never spot the potential and thus make comments which come back to haunt you.

[Cripps_orig]

Yeah, so good that why a host of top clubs are after him even when he is nearing a free. Maybe if he did better at those clubs they would be.

Probably the same reason no top clubs went for Cazorla tbh and yet you think hes the best player ever

[Olivier's xmas twist]

http://lycanthropia.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Edward-Norton-Closing-Laptop.gif


please dont let this be another joker situation on GW

zimm :rose:

for what you were and not what you became :rose:

Zimm's had a meltdown today.

[Özim]

Who gives a shit how he did at clubs years ago?
Pretty much.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

I don't think he's that great, Aguero yes as the guy makes things happen..Tevez I've never been a big fan of...works hard sure but lacks the finesse of the very best.

i disagree.

i thought tevez was good at united but he stepped up a notch at city. he carried city to 3rd the year they pipped us and made the champions league. he's a c*nt but everytime he's on the pitch he's a professional. plays the game the right way (when he feels like he wants to come on that is).

[Marc Overmars]

Sorry but you don't have a clue, Aguero was amazing in Spain and you could always tell he was going to be amazing. He always had far more in his locker than Tevez, problem with you is you can never spot the potential and thus make comments which come back to haunt you.

You can't say that Zim.

You were Aliadiere's no.1 fan...

[Özim]

tevez has pretty much a 1 in 2 record at city and united. aguero has the edge for me too but tevez is far from overrated.
The thing is Ferguson was willing to let him go in the end, not saying he's not very good because he clearly is, I just think he lacks that special something...that for example Aguero has.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Sorry but you don't have a clue, Aguero was amazing in Spain and you could always tell he was going to be amazing. He always had far more in his locker than Tevez, problem with you is you can never spot the potential and thus make comments which come back to haunt you.

Did i say he was not. Tevez had proven in this league he was quality. Aguero had never proved that till last season.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You can't say that Zim.

You were Aliadiere's no.1 fan...

:haha:

[Özim]

You can't say that Zim.

You were Aliadiere's no.1 fan...
:lol: I like your style

Injuries ruined him to be fair (and Wenger).

Got it right with all the others though, Chamakh RVP, Aguero etc...my record is pretty good.

Charlie get's it wrong all the time.

[Cripps_orig]

Did i say he was not. Tevez had proven in this league he was quality. Aguero had never proved that till last season.

Most importantly, is the "did i say he was not" the new "never said"?

[Özim]

Did i say he was not. Tevez had proven in this league he was quality. Aguero had never proved that till last season.
Stop backtracking, you reckoned he'd fail and was nowhere near as good as Tevez.

You were wrong and so the discussion ends...

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Injuries ruined him to be fair (and Wenger).

Got it right with all the others though, Chamakh, Barndoor, RVP, Aguero...my record is pretty good.

Charlie get's it wrong all the time.

Why cause i don't suck Huntelaar's arse like you.

So because i don't agree on your idea of quality im wrong?

Ok then.

[Marc Overmars]

Well at least Arsenal being shit is good for business.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Stop backtracking, you reckoned he'd fail and was nowhere near as good as Tevez.

You were wrong and so the discussion ends...

Find that post where i said that prove it.

[Cripps_orig]

Whilst Zim has had his fair share of shockers on here, Ade, Reyes, Gilberto etc, he was spot on about the biggest thing which none of us, not even me saw and that Wengers a ****

Only time i have been wrong :(

Zimm :bow:

[Özim]

Why cause i don't suck Huntelaar's arse like you.

So because i don't agree on your idea of quality im wrong?

Ok then.
No because everytime you call something it almost every time ends up being wrong and you get pretty touchy about it and then a while later your opinion completely changes.

Same thing would happen with Huntelaar, you'd say he's not that good, he'd come in score a hatful and then you'd have to eat your words...don't do it to yourself.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Well at least Arsenal being shit is good for business.

You betcha!

Especially if you enjoy reading the same shite over and over and over again.

[Özim]

Whilst Zim has had his fair share of shockers on here, Ade, Reyes, Gilberto etc, he was spot on about the biggest thing which none of us, not even me saw and that Wengers a ****

Only time i have been wrong :(

Zimm :bow:
:lol:

[Xhaka Can’t]

No because everytime you call something it almost every time ends up being wrong and you get pretty touchy about it and then a while later your opinion completely changes.

Same thing would happen with Huntelaar, you'd say he's not that good, he'd come in score a hatful and then you'd have to eat your words...don't do it to yourself.

No it doesn't.

[Cripps_orig]

No because everytime you call something it almost every time ends up being wrong and you get pretty touchy about it and then a while later your opinion completely changes.

Tbf its pretty entertaining how Charlie does that

Long may it continue. Hes not one to be taken seriously about football but hes entertaining and thats what this place needs

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

The thing is Ferguson was willing to let him go in the end, not saying he's not very good because he clearly is, I just think he lacks that special something...that for example Aguero has.

im interested to know why you think that?

tevez since he joined city: 51 goals in 88 apps = 0.625
aguero: 25/41 = 0.609

so he has a better goals to game ratio than aguero, who you say you're a fan of.

tevez also starred at the birth of the city era when he was the only big star whilst aguero's career consisted of playing with many world class players like silva and yaya.

[Özim]

Find that post where i said that prove it.
I'm not wasting my time looking for a post from a year and a half ago :lol:

You know, I know, the whole of GW knows you said it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Same thing would happen with Huntelaar, you'd say he's not that good, he'd come in score a hatful and then you'd have to eat your words...don't do it to yourself.

No thats you not me. Just cause you do that shit don't tar me with your brush.

Let Giroud score 30 goals you'll soon be licking his ass. Then he'll have one poor game and it'll be back to how shie he is.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I'm not wasting my time looking for a post from a year and a half ago :lol:

You know, I know, the whole of GW knows you said it.

Prove it, you accused me so prove it.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

im interested to know why you think that?

tevez since he joined city: 51 goals in 88 apps = 0.625
aguero: 25/41 = 0.609

so he has a better goals to game ratio than aguero, who you say you're a fan of.

tevez also starred at the birth of the city era when he was the only big star whilst aguero's career consisted of playing with many world class players like silva and yaya.

Pretty much.

[Özim]

im interested to know why you think that?

tevez since he joined city: 51 goals in 88 apps = 0.625
aguero: 25/41 = 0.609

so he has a better goals to game ratio than aguero, who you say you're a fan of.

tevez also starred at the birth of the city era when he was the only big star whilst aguero's career consisted of playing with many world class players like silva and yaya.
I'm a huge fan of Aguero and he's better than Tevez, he's a complete forward who can beat players, score from anywhere and create....he's got the potential to be a top top striker.

Tevez's potential is more limited, he's almost 29 and at the peak of his powers now Aguero is quite a few years younger and will only get better.

What was Tevez record for West Ham incidentally? Tevez played for West Ham and Man U so had time to get use to the English game and is older, so that explains his stats to be honest.

[Özim]

No thats you not me. Just cause you do that shit don't tar me with your brush.

Let Giroud score 30 goals you'll soon be licking his ass. Then he'll have one poor game and it'll be back to how shie he is.
I won't because he won't.

You'll always have to eat your words though as you keep repeating the same mistake over and over again :lol:

[Özim]

Tbf its pretty entertaining how Charlie does that

Long may it continue. Hes not one to be taken seriously about football but hes entertaining and thats what this place needs
:lol: Too true.

[Özim]

Prove it, you accused me so prove it.
I don't need to everyone knows it, I'm not wasting my time sorry :lol:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

I'm a huge fan of Aguero and he's better than Tevez, he's a complete forward who can beat players, score from anywhere and create....he's got the potential to be a top top striker.

Tevez's potential is more limited, he's almost 29 and at the peak of his powers now Aguero is quite a few years younger and will only get better.

call me crazy but your criteria seems completely implausible? the 3 things i would attribute to tevez is beating players (pace + strength), scoring from anywhere (scored from free kicks in the past, headers, chips) and create's a lot (because of his engine).

he's also 5 ft 8 while aguero is 5 ft 7 so you cant say he has more aerial threat. they're both the same size.

as for the last point forget about age. we are talking about now not the future.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't need to everyone knows it, I'm not wasting my time sorry :lol:

Well no, i never said that, but if your going to accuse me then show me proof.

[Özim]

call me crazy but your criteria seems completely implausible? the 3 things i would attribute to tevez is beating players (pace + strength), scoring from anywhere (scored from free kicks in the past, headers, chips) and create's a lot (because of his engine).

he's also 5 ft 8 while aguero is 5 ft 7 so you cant say he has more aerial threat. they're both the same size.

as for the last point forget about age. we are talking about now not the future.
I don't think Tevez is great at beating players as he's not the most skilled, he strong and most of his goals and due to work rate and brute force...though he has a decent shot, he's not really a dribbler.

Tevez played for West Ham and Man U before City, so had time to adapt to a new league...Aguero signed before last season from Spain, in addition age plays a part as players get older and reach their peak 28-29 they get better...Aguero is nowhere near that at 24 (25 in June) but Tevez is there at 29 in February.

[Cripps_orig]

Couple of quotes from someone whose name i wont mention but will instead use the immortal line

As a great man once said


Aguero will struggle in this league big time and he knows is thats why he will go to madrid where he can look class


Meh Rather he wen't City Rather then Chelsea Can't see him doing anything good there tbh,


i don't think he will tear up this league as people think

:popcorn:

[Özim]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Nite nite Charlie :wave:

[Kano]

The thing is Ferguson was willing to let him go in the end, not saying he's not very good because he clearly is, I just think he lacks that special something...that for example Aguero has.
you've moved from overrated to very good so i'm not sure what you're trying to say. most people would agree aguero is better, especially with years on his side. tevez is seen as a saviour at west ham for his time there, very effective from the bench at united and fergie moved him on because he was acting like a dick. which he has shown now. excellent player though. just like suarez.

[Özim]

Cripps on of GW's best posters :bow:

[Özim]

you've moved from overrated to very good so i'm not sure what you're trying to say. most people would agree aguero is better, especially with years on his side. tevez is seen as a saviour at west ham for his time there, very effective from the bench at united and fergie moved him on because he was acting like a dick. which he has shown now. excellent player though. just like suarez.
I think people treat him a some sort of world beater, I don't think he is...he's very good but he's not top bracket for me and will never hit the heights of the very best strikers in the world.

At West Ham he ran around a lot and worked hard but went a long period without goals when he first came, he then got some goals at the tail end of his stay there. At Man U, I'm not sure he totally convinced Ferguson, if I remember correctly (correct me if I'm wrong), he was on the bench a fair amount rather than a starter.

Was great for City in his first season, what I will say though is that he doesn't seem as explosive as someone like Aguero, I think he's easier to stop and less likely to score a goal out of nowhere.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Couple of quotes from someone whose name i wont mention but will instead use the immortal line

As a great man once said








:popcorn:
Like i said, i never said he would flop, not one of those quotes says that.

I never said i never said he would struggle.

End of the day if someone is going to accuse me, least do it word for word.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

I don't think Tevez is great at beating players as he's not the most skilled, he strong and most of his goals and due to work rate and brute force...though he has a decent shot, he's not really a dribbler.

Tevez played for West Ham and Man U before City, so had time to adapt to a new league...Aguero signed before last season from Spain, in addition age plays a part as players get older and reach their peak 28-29 they get better...Aguero is nowhere near that at 24 (25 in June) but Tevez is there at 29 in February.

but surely work rate and strength are the two most important attributes for being able to beat players? :lol: you cant just pluck words out of nowhere and pretend they have no correlation to a certain attribute when they clearly do. if you'd said something like x doesnt have pace so that hinders his ability to beat players then id see your point, but you're basing your judgment on attributes he clearly has. then using those attributes in the wrong context.

and im not sure where adaptation comes into your theory because arguero has a good goal scoring ratio, just not as good as the one held by tevez. surely you're adaptation theory only comes into play if aguero was performing badly, thus him needing more time to adapt to the english game? it has little to do with the tevez vs aguero argument. in fact you're saying aguero will get better with age, which is surely acknowledging the fact that tevez is better right now, because as you say, aguero isnt at his peak?

[Kano]

I think people treat him a some sort of world beater, I don't think he is...he's very good but he's not top bracket for me and will never hit the heights of the very best strikers in the world.

At West Ham he ran around a lot and worked hard but went a long period without goals when he first came, he then got some goals at the tail end of his stay there. At Man U, I'm not sure he totally convinced Ferguson, if I remember correctly (correct me if I'm wrong), he was on the bench a fair amount rather than a starter.

Was great for City in his first season, what I will say though is that he doesn't seem as explosive as someone like Aguero, I think he's easier to stop and less likely to score a goal out of nowhere.
i don't know why you're going out of your way so much to prove that tevez is not all that when you think he's very good - you should have far more positives to say about someone so good but it doesn't seem that way.

maybe you think there is some sort of contest between aguero and tevez here but really there isn't. people think aguero is better. they also think tevez is excellent. that's it. tevez being so good doesn't detract from how good aguero is y'know.

[Özim]

but surely work rate and strength are the two most important attributes for being able to beat players? :lol: you cant just pluck words out of nowhere and pretend they have no correlation to a certain attribute when they clearly do. if you'd said something like x doesnt have pace so that hinders his ability to beat players then id see your point, but you're basing your judgment on attributes he clearly has. then using those attributes in the wrong context.

and im not sure where adaptation comes into your theory because arguero has a good goal scoring ratio, just not as good as the one held by tevez. surely you're adaptation theory only comes into play if aguero was performing badly, thus him needing more time to adapt to the english game? it has little to do with the tevez vs aguero argument. in fact you're saying aguero will get better with age, which is surely acknowledging the fact that tevez is better right now, because as you say, aguero isnt at his peak?
No I reckon dribbling is the most important thing to beat players, just look at Messi.

Again no, Tevez had time to adapt to English football, Aguero didn't yet he scored immediately...he's only going to get better now due to age and time getting use to the league, Tevez is not at his peak, it's as good as it gets for him he'll soon be on the decline.

Age plays a big part as players get better as they get closer and then reach their peak, time in a league also does as there's always a period of adaptation, it might be less apparent for some (like Aguero who was a hit in his 1st season) but there's still is some adjustment, you'll only get better after your first season or two in a league.

[Özim]

i don't know why you're going out of your way so much to prove that tevez is not all that when you think he's very good - you should have far more positives to say about someone so good but it doesn't seem that way.

maybe you think there is some sort of contest between aguero and tevez here but really there isn't. people think aguero is better. they also think tevez is excellent. that's it. tevez being so good doesn't detract from how good aguero is y'know.
He's not my kind of player, I personally wouldn't sign him...I'd go for a player with more like Aguero or alternatively an out and out goalscorer like Huntelaar.

[Cripps_orig]

Like i said, i never said he would flop, not one of those quotes says that.

I never said i never said he would struggle.

End of the day if someone is going to accuse me, least do it word for word.
Oh dear

Saying someone will struggle and not do any good here to most people would mean he'll flop

Or do you have to literally say something before we can prove it?

In that case, oh dear

[Özim]

Oh dear

Saying someone will struggle and not do any good here to most people would mean he'll flop

Or do you have to literally say something before we can prove it?

In that case, oh dear
Spot on, he's scraping the barrel there

Charlie :rose:

[Cripps_orig]

Charlies melt down is complete

A shame. I like the dude. Woefully wrong about most things but entertainingly wrong and thats the best wrong to be

Hope he can come back from this and rise again from the Ashes and once again become the best poster GW has had

[Power n Glory]

You spiteful bastards! :lol:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Just read the match thread and flicked through the pages on this thread

Shocking pessimism on here.

My thoughts on the day.

Great time, thoroughly enjoyed it, decent weather as well, fine looking lass not that far from me as well. It was indeed turning out to be an excellent day........then the match started

Fulham were excellent. Would have been harsh to lose that game to a non penalty that Dowd gave us. Ref had a decent game. Cant blame him for this. In a way and no doubt i'll have the clueless on my back for this but missing the penalty is for the greater good. If we had scored it and won the game, the papering over the cracks by Wenger and his sympathizers on here would have been immense. Now they dont have a leg to stand on.

As mentioned, Fulham were awlsome and i consider it a good point as we were up against a far superior team managed by a far superior manager. Yes its a shame and frustrating that we let go of a 2 goal lead but i would have taken a point at the start of the game so no complaints.

Mannone - Cant blame him any of the goals from what i saw

Defensively we were not so good. Mert is awesome but the other 3 and especially Kos, were bad. Plenty of Arsenal fans suffered heart attacks when the ball is near him.

Arteta for me was MOTM. He was excellent in the way he regularly created space and opportunities for Fulham. Think he made one mistake today when he was trying to play it out of defence and the ball ended up with Podolski who scored but other than that, he was brilliant for Fulham. Cheeky bid in january? Won a penalty for Fulham and made sure it stayed 3-3 at the end by psyching out the Arsenal taker

Cazorla - I hate being right :(

Coq looked very good so taking him off was exactly the right thing to do by Wenger. We cannot have players having good games.

Podolski scored. :bow: Always been a fan. Hes back. Anticipated Arteta trying to pass it out and intercepted the pass and scored.

Giroud, i have to thank him. He answered a very important question for me. After Theos 2 goals v Spuds last season, i questioned how posters can still critisise someone who has scored 2 goals in a match. Now i know. Arguably the worst striker in the business when the ball is at his feet but pretty awesome in the air although he did miss a sitter of a header at the end. And he bottled taking the penalty but unless he can take it with his head, i wouldnt have backed him to score. Case in point, his 2nd goal. One on one sitter missed, Theo as usual backs him up, chips it in and he scores the header

Theo - He is awesome. Truly loved by all true gooners. Our best player by a mile. Name sung by everyone and was having a great game and thus taken off to keep him fit for his sale in January.

Ramsey - Not good enough. End of the road for him

Arshavin - Has to start surely. He has been excellent in his cameos this season

Ox - Honeymoon period is dead. He needs to perform. One good performance in January v Mancs doesnt wash anymore. Hes been a flop

Late as fuck, but just saw this :haha:

Ach :bow:

Top GW poster by a mile :bow:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

No I reckon dribbling is the most important thing to beat players, just look at Messi.

Again no, Tevez had time to adapt to English football, Aguero didn't yet he scored immediately...he's only going to get better now due to age and time getting use to the league, Tevez is not at his peak, it's as good as it gets for him he'll soon be on the decline.

Age plays a big part as players get better as they get closer and then reach their peak, time in a league also does as there's always a period of adaptation, it might be less apparent for some (like Aguero who was a hit in his 1st season) but there's still is some adjustment, you'll only get better after your first season or two in a league.

yes and what do you need to be able to dribble? have good strength and high work rate, right? which tevez has. so if tevez has them attributes then surely it means he's a good dribbler, which coincidently means he's able to beat players? so im not sure why you're saying he's not good at beating players :lol:

and im not denying you need time to get used to the english league but im not sure why you're using that as an argument to bolster aguero's career, because as i said, his goal scoring ratio is good. it would only make sense if aguero was performing poorly. it doesn't really make sense. in fact surely it hinders your argument? id put tevez's poor west ham record to playing in a shit, relegation doomed, west ham team. aguero came in and had the luxury of silva, yaya, de jong and tevez straight away. who did tevez have? marlon harewood? :lol:

[Özim]

yes and what do you need to be able to dribble? have good strength and high work rate, right? which tevez has. so if tevez has them attributes then surely it means he's a good dribbler, which coincidently means he's able to beat players? so im not sure why you're saying he's not good at beating players :lol:

and im not denying you need time to get used to the english league but im not sure why you're using that as an argument to bolster aguero's career, because as i said, his goal scoring ratio is good. it would only make sense if aguero was performing poorly. it doesn't really make sense. in fact surely it hinders your argument? id put tevez's poor west ham record to playing in a shit, relegation doomed, west ham team. aguero came in and had the luxury of silva, yaya, de jong and tevez straight away. who did tevez have? marlon harewood? :lol:
Well no not really, there's been plenty of lazy players who can dribble and likewise strength......Messi isn't strong he's tiny, he's just incredibly skillful and well balanced, Hleb was weak as f*ck as well but could dribble. So again no.

Yes his ratio is good but that's pretty amazing considering his age and the fact it was his first season, it should only improve from here. Tevez went a long time without scoring much for West Ham, think he only scored goals right at the end, he wasn't that great for the most part (bar his work rate). His goal record has been very good for City and Man U, teams where he's had lots of good players around him so the same applies to both.

Point is Aguero will get better, Tevez won't.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Well no not really, there's been plenty of lazy players who can dribble and likewise strength......Messi isn't strong he's tiny, he's just incredibly skillful and well balanced, Hleb was weak as f*ck as well but could dribble. So again no.

Yes his ratio is good but that's pretty amazing considering his age and the fact it was his first season, it should only improve from here. Tevez went a long time without scoring much for West Ham, think he only scored goals right at the end, he wasn't that great for the most part (bar his work rate). His goal record has been very good for City and Man U, teams where he's had lots of good players around him so the same applies to both.

Point is Aguero will get better, Tevez won't.

id say messi is strong, when was the last time you saw him get brushed off the ball? he's able to stand his ground well for someone his size. he's usually hacked down.

tevez at west ham had boa morte, etherington, zamora and hayden mullins. i think i can see why his goalscoring ratio was bad. but anyway, i just thought it was bizarre to call tevez 'overrated' and say aguero is 'far superior' even though his goalscoring ratio at city is better. maybe i need to have a glass of whiskey.

[Power n Glory]

Augero is better and you need more than work rate and strength to be a good dribbler. I can understand what Zimm is saying to a extent. Not a huge fan of Tevez. Just a bit unpolished and rough with his technique. But I'd take Tevez over Huntelaar. But it's not as if we'll ever have such a choice. :lol:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

i did say the 'two most important' attributes in an earlier post, which suggests there are more, as you say. i can see where he's coming from but the basis of his argument seemed a bit implausible especially when the attributes he was using to devalue tevez's game are ones id say are rationally correlated to his strengths. or maybe im the irrational one? fuck it where's that whiskey

[Power n Glory]

I don't agree with that. Most important attributes will always be touch and having good ball control technique. From old school players like Zidane, Del Piero, Robero Baggio, Rivaldo, Ginola, Gazza, Kanu to more recent like Berbatov, Ibrahimovic, Robinho even our boy Diaby, some aren't strong and most of them have a poor work rate but they can sit any defender on their ass with their dribbling skills. Work rate and strength.....Emile Hesky has that in abundance.

[Letters]

41 pages :lol:

Great game. Fulham looked pretty good.
We looked #decent going forward, #awlful at the back.
I'd have put my sodding house on us missing the late pel :doh:
A win for us would have been harsh on Fulham.

I didn't get there till it was 2-1. Fun you, TFL. Fun you to heck <_<

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Oh dear

Saying someone will struggle and not do any good here to most people would mean he'll flop

Or do you have to literally say something before we can prove it?

In that case, oh dear

I never said he'd flop, i said he'd struggle as in not adapt, to this league. Because i know most South American players before him, have not. Ok he proved me wrong. Never said he was shite or a poor player.

@Zimm Just cause i said Tevez was better then him, you say im wrong. Its called having an opinion sorry it did not match yours or agree with you. Cause you must be right. Zimm is right all the time and everyone else is wrong.

But well done to you or should i say Ach, who done your dirty work for you.




Or do you have to literally say something before we can prove it?


Yes.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I have a crazy idea.

Go to the other football area and post about Tevez and Aguero.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[Power n Glory]

I never said he'd flop, i said he'd struggle as in not adapt, to this league. Because i know most South American players before him, have not. Ok he proved me wrong. Never said he was shite or a poor player. Just cause i said Tevez was better then him, you say im wrong. Its called having an opinion sorry it did not match yours or agree with you. Cause you must be right. Zimm is right all the time and everyone else is wrong.

But well done to you or should i say Ach, who done your dirty work for you.





Yes.

Semantics. Flop, struggle to adapt....whatever. You were wrong. Give it up.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Semantics. Flop, struggle to adapt....whatever. You were wrong. Give it up.

:good:

[Alpha]

I din't have the chance to watch the game but I was gutted by the result after being 2 up and fucked it up and fuck up the penalty to rescue the day . But Those who watched it should have told us if we were good offensively to score those goals and how we were awful defending . Most of post will tell you the team was shit but that has become a bit of monotony . We know the team is not clicking as we would like to but telling other people how the game was would help more than expressing our anger .

[Letters]

But Those who watched it should have told us if we were good offensively to score those goals and how we were awful defending.
I did say that <_<

[Olivier's xmas twist]

But Those who watched it should have told us if we were good offensively to score those goals and how we were awful defending . Most of post will tell you the team was shit but that has become a bit of monotony . We know the team is not clicking as we would like to but telling other people how the game was would help more than expressing our anger .

Do you mean those that went to the game, or those who watched it on tv? If its the latter then its hard for anyone to make a judgement of a 3:00 kick off. you can't see the full game till later in the evening, and thats only if you have Sky etc.

I listened on the radio rather then find a stream, only knew what they saw me. I could not be bothered to sit though our match on sky just to see how we played. As you say we know the team is not clicking how we like. so until it does it will be the same thing over and over again.

[Alpha]

Do you mean those that went to the game, or those who watched it on tv? If its the latter then its hard for anyone to make a judgement of a 3:00 kick off. you can't see the full game till later in the evening, and thats only if you have Sky etc.

I listened on the radio rather then find a stream, only knew what they saw me. I could not be bothered to sit though our match on sky just to see how we played. As you say we know the team is not clicking how we like. so until it does it will be the same thing over and over again.

Thanks a lot . I meant both . Those who went to the game and those who watched it live on TV .
Normally , our post-match reaction should have been according to certain actions bad or good from our team or the other team . Someone should have described how it went on and event the referee performance can also be interesting . But you get people just saying it was shit without telling what made the game shit .

[Xhaka Can’t]

Alpha, it was a good game from the perspective that there were plenty of goals and that you sensed there always would be more to come.

However, the element of shit emanated from the lack of organisation and quality in both sides. Of real concern is our inability to be professional and composed when we have a lead. It is like the team collectively understand their defensive limitations which become magnified whenever we need to call upon defensive resolve.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

I don't agree with that. Most important attributes will always be touch and having good ball control technique. From old school players like Zidane, Del Piero, Robero Baggio, Rivaldo, Ginola, Gazza, Kanu to more recent like Berbatov, Ibrahimovic, Robinho even our boy Diaby, some aren't strong and most of them have a poor work rate but they can sit any defender on their ass with their dribbling skills. Work rate and strength.....Emile Hesky has that in abundance.

the problem with football analysis is that it's always subjective. you think touch and having good ball control are the most important attributes, i can counter that and say well you can have the best touch in the world, but if you're weak you'll get pushed off the ball as soon as you get the ball, which means you dont have a chance to dribble. so poor strength can hinder you're ability to dribble. you can counter me and say well without a good touch you wont be able to control the ball in the first place to even attempt a dribble. you see its swings and roundabouts my friend, but i guess that's what makes it fun. wouldnt be good if we all had the same opinion now would it.

[Power n Glory]

the problem with football analysis is that it's always subjective. you think touch and having good ball control are the most important attributes, i can counter that and say well you can have the best touch in the world, but if you're weak you'll get pushed off the ball as soon as you get the ball, which means you dont have a chance to dribble. so poor strength can hinder you're ability to dribble. you can counter me and say well without a good touch you wont be able to control the ball in the first place to even attempt a dribble. you see its swings and roundabouts my friend, but i guess that's what makes it fun. wouldnt be good if we all had the same opinion now would it.

So you think the best dribblers in the world started off by doing push ups and chin ups before learning how to control a ball?

[Niall_Quinn]

I didn't see the game and didn't even watch the rerun on football first. And I'm not tempted to try to find a replay. 24 hours after I have zero interest in the game. I think a lot more football fans, as opposed to the thrilled to be here types, will feel the same by the end of this season,

[Özim]

the problem with football analysis is that it's always subjective. you think touch and having good ball control are the most important attributes, i can counter that and say well you can have the best touch in the world, but if you're weak you'll get pushed off the ball as soon as you get the ball, which means you dont have a chance to dribble. so poor strength can hinder you're ability to dribble. you can counter me and say well without a good touch you wont be able to control the ball in the first place to even attempt a dribble. you see its swings and roundabouts my friend, but i guess that's what makes it fun. wouldnt be good if we all had the same opinion now would it.
To be honest I don't think strength stops you dribbling, dribblers can beat players simply by sending them the wrong way they don't always need strength. I'm not saying being strong on the ball doesn't help, because clearly it does and will make you more effective but you can dribble past players without it as has been shown many times in the past by players like Limpar, Maradona, Juninho etc

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

So you think the best dribblers in the world started off by doing push ups and chin ups before learning how to control a ball?

you're ability to generate a load of tosh from a post is quite an art.

you're analysing something way too deeply, as usual.

it was nothing more than a discussion branded with some subjective statements.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

To be honest I don't think strength stops you dribbling, dribblers can beat players simply by sending them the wrong way they don't always need strength. I'm not saying being strong on the ball doesn't help, because clearly it does and will make you more effective but you can dribble past players without it as has been shown many times in the past by players like Limpar, Maradona, Juninho etc

which was my point.

thanks for agreeing.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Sleep caught up with me and I did not watch the game as we get all games live over here. . .she mentioned that Berbatov was a handful and it was obvious that we had shot ourselves in the foot again. . .

I have not read through the majority of this thread but I can imagine the general direction. . .there was a point last season that I contemplated joining the Wenger Out crew, this year? Im not there yet but yiu have to admit we are not doing a good job in an area of the club.

I do think we really messed up this summer by not fully replacing those we lost, those that want to leave can go in my opinion but we have to bring in replacements, the squad lost more again and I dont see what Wenger thinks he can achieve, Santi Giro Pod should have been considered additions, RvP and Song going were to need more imports to cover. . .Berbatov may not have been the answer but I do think we tend to deceive ourselves with our current perception of what equates to Arsenal quality!

[Özim]

which was my point.

thanks for agreeing.
Well that wasn't your point initially though, as per below post:


but surely work rate and strength are the two most important attributes for being able to beat players?

They're not, balance and skill on the ball are, strength is desirable but not essential as I mentioned.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Sleep caught up with me and I did not watch the game as we get all games live over here. . .she mentioned that Berbatov was a handful and it was obvious that we had shot ourselves in the foot again. . .

I have not read through the majority of this thread but I can imagine the general direction. . .there was a point last season that I contemplated joining the Wenger Out crew, this year? Im not there yet but yiu have to admit we are not doing a good job in an area of the club.

I do think we really messed up this summer by not fully replacing those we lost, those that want to leave can go in my opinion but we have to bring in replacements, the squad lost more again and I dont see what Wenger thinks he can achieve, Santi Giro Pod should have been considered additions, RvP and Song going were to need more imports to cover. . .Berbatov may not have been the answer but I do think we tend to deceive ourselves with our current perception of what equates to Arsenal quality!

This, heck we could have asked for Hernandez has part of the RVp deal, for me this is where we show we are not good at business.

Heck we should have splashed out on a Llorente and Isco and Mvilla just took a risk. We'd be much better off. Then layers like Giroud may not feel so much pressure.

How is it Utd can sell Ronaldo for £80 mill, but we can't sell our best players for more then £25 mill.

[Power n Glory]

I
you're ability to generate a load of tosh from a post is quite an art.

you're analysing something way too deeply, as usual.

it was nothing more than a discussion branded with some subjective statements.

:lol: Touchy. It's a question!

The best dribblers learn ball control and technique first. If strength and work rate were the most important, as you argued, we'd have more players hitting the gym from young instead of learning control and technique.

[Power n Glory]

Well that wasn't your point initially though, as per below post:



They're not, balance and skill on the ball are, strength is desirable but not essential as I mentioned.

Thank you. I disagree with what he's saying about strength and work rate which is why I listed players like Zidane and Robinho in the first place.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Thanks a lot . I meant both . Those who went to the game and those who watched it live on TV .
Normally , our post-match reaction should have been according to certain actions bad or good from our team or the other team . Someone should have described how it went on and event the referee performance can also be interesting . But you get people just saying it was shit without telling what made the game shit .

Yeah thats because by the time those who went to the game, get back the thread is filled with 10 pages of reaction whether its a loss or a win. The game was not on tv yesterday you have to wait till football 1st comes on and by that time this thread is filled. Someone on here said yesterday they normally watch the games back and analyse them to see where we went wrong. (Png) i think. However could not be bothered as he felt it was just the same thing over and over again.



But you get people just saying it was shit without telling what made the game shit .

Yeah, but thats just kneejerking in association with the result.

[Cripps_orig]

My post match reaction was spot on

[Marc Overmars]

This, heck we could have asked for Hernandez has part of the RVp deal, for me this is where we show we are not good at business.

Heck we should have splashed out on a Llorente and Isco and Mvilla just took a risk. We'd be much better off. Then layers like Giroud may not feel so much pressure.

How is it Utd can sell Ronaldo for £80 mill, but we can't sell our best players for more then £25 mill.

I doubt Fergie would have given us Hernandez. :lol:

Ronaldo was the best player in the world and courted by Real Madrid who have broken the world record transfer fee several times, that's how they got 80m.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I doubt Fergie would have given us Hernandez. :lol:

Ronaldo was the best player in the world and courted by Real Madrid who have broken the world record transfer fee several times, that's how they got 80m.


Fair do's

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

I

:lol: Touchy. It's a question!

The best dribblers learn ball control and technique first. If strength and work rate were the most important, as you argued, we'd have more players hitting the gym from young instead of learning control and technique.

no not at all, i just thought the question you posed was quite patronising. but if we're going to analyse it thoroughly then its a hand in hand process that varies according to each player. they're not mutually exclusive like we're making out they are. some players need strength, others need to work on their balance. in all cases you need a contribution of both. personally i think strength is one of the most important aspects when dribbling, although less so nowadays simply because the art of dribbling has died and we're seeing teams pass their way out of situations.

and the debate intially rose from a point zimm made about tevez being 'overrated' and aguero 'far' superior, which is very dubious, especially when tevez has actually outperformed aguero to this day. but as i said, swings and roundabouts.

[Power n Glory]

no not at all, i just thought the question you posed was quite patronising. but if we're going to analyse it thoroughly then its a hand in hand process that varies according to each player. they're not mutually exclusive like we're making out they are. some players need strength, others need to work on their balance. in all cases you need a contribution of both. personally i think strength is one of the most important aspects when dribbling, although less so nowadays simply because the art of dribbling has died and we're seeing teams pass their way out of situations.

and the debate intially rose from a point zimm made about tevez being 'overrated' and aguero 'far' superior, which is very dubious, especially when tevez has actually outperformed aguero to this day. but as i said, swings and roundabouts.

But if we're talking the most important attribute here, come on, it's not strength and work rate. Robinho doesn't need that to pass players. He didn't need to bulk up before playing in the Prem.

I've dribblers that are also powerful on the ball, like the original Ronaldo. An absulute beast of a player that could ride challenges and hold players off with strength. Or Henry is another example. Strong and quick.

But on the flipside, you have players like Robinho or the many Barca players. Quick, small build but great dribblers. They don't have to hold a man off when dribbling, they just ghost past them because opposition players can't get close enough to them.

Question may seem patronising but it's the truth. If strength and work rate was more important, then chunky players like Emile Hesky should be great dribblers. If check out how Brazlian kids develop there skills, you'll see it's all ball control and skills and not strength. I'm not saying strength and work rate won't help, but it's not the most important thing.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

how successful was robinho in england? speak to most city fans and a majority would brand him a flop. not sure why you're using him as a kingpin to further your argument. and using heskey to devalue mine? :lol: i mean come on, there's shit and then there's real shit. you need a sense of balanced rationale when using players as examples. heskey god bless him could have messi's right foot and ronaldo's left and he'd still manage to fall flat on his backside every game. i can see your point and i agree with you that you need skill, balance, technique etc, but treating them as mutually exclusive to strength, work rate, energy, drive is fundamentally wrong from both sides of the argument.

[Niall_Quinn]

I doubt Fergie would have given us Hernandez. :lol:

Ronaldo was the best player in the world and courted by Real Madrid who have broken the world record transfer fee several times, that's how they got 80m.

Hernadez is markedly superior to anything we have at this club now. Put RvC on the pitch and those two will be lethal over the coming months. This is Utd's title and we filled in the missing piece for them. RvC didn't score yesterday but he linked the play so well and prevnted it breaking down on so many occasions. The exact opposite of what we see at Arsenal. Hernandez would do nothing here because we couldn't bring back RvP as well. We couldn't bring a Rooney is, who for all the stick he gets can at least pass a ball. We laugh at Carrick, but he is efficient, our lot are wasteful. Valencia was an excellent outlet for them too, holding the ball, running with it, relieving the pressure rather than pouring it back on to the defence - the opposite of Theo Walcott, by the way. They went two goals down and of course came back to win it. That was obviously going to happen and it's no fluke, they have rescued 15 points so far from losing positions apparently. As with us, their defence is not so good, but further up the pitch they do all the necessary things to keep the pressure off that defence - we do none of those things. Football is a simple game in the end, most of the complex analysis is pure bullshit. Pass, run, shoot, cross, press, tackle, block - the basics. Get this right and get 11 guys working as one team and you will be formidable. Add talent in the key areas and you will be champions.

[jelgoon]

Youre right about RVC yesterday. He was brilliant from what i saw on MOTD, He hit the post twice and set up their winner. He is a huge buy for them and it was the worst mistake we have ever made selling him.


Hernadez is markedly superior to anything we have at this club now. Put RvC on the pitch and those two will be lethal over the coming months. This is Utd's title and we filled in the missing piece for them. RvC didn't score yesterday but he linked the play so well and prevnted it breaking down on so many occasions. The exact opposite of what we see at Arsenal. Hernandez would do nothing here because we couldn't bring back RvP as well. We couldn't bring a Rooney is, who for all the stick he gets can at least pass a ball. We laugh at Carrick, but he is efficient, our lot are wasteful. Valencia was an excellent outlet for them too, holding the ball, running with it, relieving the pressure rather than pouring it back on to the defence - the opposite of Theo Walcott, by the way. They went two goals down and of course came back to win it. That was obviously going to happen and it's no fluke, they have rescued 15 points so far from losing positions apparently. As with us, their defence is not so good, but further up the pitch they do all the necessary things to keep the pressure off that defence - we do none of those things. Football is a simple game in the end, most of the complex analysis is pure bullshit. Pass, run, shoot, cross, press, tackle, block - the basics. Get this right and get 11 guys working as one team and you will be formidable. Add talent in the key areas and you will be champions.

[jelgoon]

By the way I dont think Carrick is that good at all. Watched him a few times now and he drifts off the play and is responsible in part for Manure leaking quite a lot of goals.


Hernadez is markedly superior to anything we have at this club now. Put RvC on the pitch and those two will be lethal over the coming months. This is Utd's title and we filled in the missing piece for them. RvC didn't score yesterday but he linked the play so well and prevnted it breaking down on so many occasions. The exact opposite of what we see at Arsenal. Hernandez would do nothing here because we couldn't bring back RvP as well. We couldn't bring a Rooney is, who for all the stick he gets can at least pass a ball. We laugh at Carrick, but he is efficient, our lot are wasteful. Valencia was an excellent outlet for them too, holding the ball, running with it, relieving the pressure rather than pouring it back on to the defence - the opposite of Theo Walcott, by the way. They went two goals down and of course came back to win it. That was obviously going to happen and it's no fluke, they have rescued 15 points so far from losing positions apparently. As with us, their defence is not so good, but further up the pitch they do all the necessary things to keep the pressure off that defence - we do none of those things. Football is a simple game in the end, most of the complex analysis is pure bullshit. Pass, run, shoot, cross, press, tackle, block - the basics. Get this right and get 11 guys working as one team and you will be formidable. Add talent in the key areas and you will be champions.

[Power n Glory]

how successful was robinho in england? speak to most city fans and a majority would brand him a flop. not sure why you're using him as a kingpin to further your argument. and using heskey to devalue mine? :lol: i mean come on, there's shit and then there's real shit. you need a sense of balanced rationale when using players as examples. heskey god bless him could have messi's right foot and ronaldo's left and he'd still manage to fall flat on his backside every game. i can see your point and i agree with you that you need skill, balance, technique etc, but treating them as mutually exclusive to strength, work rate, energy, drive is fundamentally wrong from both sides of the argument.

Scrap that then. We go back to this question and we'll use one of our own players. Do you think Theo Walcott should hit the gym and work on his strength and work rate to improve his dribbling skills? I'm not ignoring the need for strength, just establishing what is more important.

[hobson's choice]

Just watched this game, and honestly everything I thought about this team is true, we are a decent/above average team. Even though we scored 2 in the first half, we were lifeless, really those two goals, were just random.

In the second half, that's how I would like to see them play. more tempo, yeah it's a bit helter skelter, but Wenger has to understand, that this team with the players we have, aren't capable off playing pass, pass, pass football. Quick, faster football suits them better. Unfortunately a player like Carzola gets lost with that type of play. We should've bought him 3 seasons ago.

Theo and Giroud were the only players that stood out to me.

[Gervinho's Forehead]

By the way I dont think Carrick is that good at all. Watched him a few times now and he drifts off the play and is responsible in part for Manure leaking quite a lot of goals.

We often say this about certain united players but they still get resounding results. At the start of every season we always say how average they look compared to last year, but they're like a machine they just go out and win.

[Niall_Quinn]

By the way I dont think Carrick is that good at all. Watched him a few times now and he drifts off the play and is responsible in part for Manure leaking quite a lot of goals.

I don't think he's that good either. I think he is average. But he can pass 5 yards instead of cutting open his own defence.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Hernadez is markedly superior to anything we have at this club now. Put RvC on the pitch and those two will be lethal over the coming months. This is Utd's title and we filled in the missing piece for them. RvC didn't score yesterday but he linked the play so well and prevnted it breaking down on so many occasions. The exact opposite of what we see at Arsenal. Hernandez would do nothing here because we couldn't bring back RvP as well. We couldn't bring a Rooney is, who for all the stick he gets can at least pass a ball. We laugh at Carrick, but he is efficient, our lot are wasteful. Valencia was an excellent outlet for them too, holding the ball, running with it, relieving the pressure rather than pouring it back on to the defence - the opposite of Theo Walcott, by the way. They went two goals down and of course came back to win it. That was obviously going to happen and it's no fluke, they have rescued 15 points so far from losing positions apparently. As with us, their defence is not so good, but further up the pitch they do all the necessary things to keep the pressure off that defence - we do none of those things. Football is a simple game in the end, most of the complex analysis is pure bullshit. Pass, run, shoot, cross, press, tackle, block - the basics. Get this right and get 11 guys working as one team and you will be formidable. Add talent in the key areas and you will be champions.

Spot on.


Valencia was an excellent outlet for them too, holding the ball, running with it, relieving the pressure rather than pouring it back on to the defence - the opposite of Theo Walcott.

This is why is Theo went there'd have to be 10X better then he is here.

[Gervinho's Forehead]

Just watched this game, and honestly everything I thought about this team is true, we are a decent/above average team. Even though we scored 2 in the first half, we were lifeless, really those two goals, were just random.

In the second half, that's how I would like to see them play. more tempo, yeah it's a bit helter skelter, but Wenger has to understand, that this team with the players we have, aren't capable off playing pass, pass, pass football. Quick, faster football suits them better. Unfortunately a player like Carzola gets lost with that type of play. We should've bought him 3 seasons ago.

Theo and Giroud were the only players that stood out to me.

I really have my doubts about this now.

[Niall_Quinn]

We are a collection of some talented and some totally inferior players that do not operate as a team. For me our worst failing is the arrogance on the pitch. Wenger says we have belief and I think that's right. We believe we are a good team. Belief is not the same thing as reality. It's bloody dangerous to jump out a top floor window with the belief you can fly.

[hobson's choice]

We are a collection of some talented and some totally inferior players that do not operate as a team.


This is it right here NQ, there's no consistent fluidity at all about our play, I don't see a team, that really has an identity, or real style of play. Just a bunch of players.

And in this case, this is where we question, what the managers and coaches are doing.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

We are a collection of some talented and some totally inferior players that do not operate as a team. For me our worst failing is the arrogance on the pitch. Wenger says we have belief and I think that's right. We believe we are a good team. Belief is not the same thing as reality. It's bloody dangerous to jump out a top floor window with the belief you can fly.

Yeah well he is hardly going to say the team is shite even if he felt that was the case. He knows this team/squad is no good.

As a great man once said "You can't sell your best players, and call yourself a big club".

[Niall_Quinn]

This is it right here NQ, there's no consistent fluidity at all about our play, I don't see a team, that really has an identity, or real style of play. Just a bunch of players.

And in this case, this is where we question, what the managers and coaches are doing.

Fighting with each other apparently.

[Power n Glory]

This is it right here NQ, there's no consistent fluidity at all about our play, I don't see a team, that really has an identity, or real style of play. Just a bunch of players.

And in this case, this is where we question, what the managers and coaches are doing.

It's a worring trend that started last season when we lost Cesc and Nasri. The cohesion in the middle was gone and the only time I remember us looking like a proper team was when Rosicky was playing in the middle. We're probably never going to get that style back to be honest. When we lost Vieira, it devastated the team. Our style of play changed and we couldn't play how we used to even though it was just one player. He was key to our central midfield and I fear we're going to have go through the same process now that we have lost both Cesc and Song now. It's not as if we recovered after losing Vieira either. Just as we start to establish a style of play with Cesc and co, we lose him and other key players now we're back to square one. We look badly damaged on the field.

[gunnerrrrr]

This is it right here NQ, there's no consistent fluidity at all about our play, I don't see a team, that really has an identity, or real style of play. Just a bunch of players.

And in this case, this is where we question, what the managers and coaches are doing.
Excellent posts by both NQ and Hobson, both have really hit the nail on the head.

We have developed an arrogance at this club in the thought that all of our players are of a certain quality. This stems from Arsene and this arrogance trickles all the way down to the players. Now thats not a bad thing if you are a Cesc, Henry, Pires, RVP etc, but when it trickles down to the sub class level of players who Arsene puts his unblinding faith in then it is a big big problem.

We have passed on quality player after quality player in the transfer window, due to Arsene not wanting to kill someone we already have in the squad and sumiszing that the purchase of "similar" player would be a waste of resource against the clubs p&l. I am referring to the real quality and not over priced footballer such as Alonso, Mata, Huntaleer etc.

Now when the players with actual quality leave we are left with the sub level of arrogant, self entitled footballers who either do not care enough about the club or are not good enough to wear the Arsenal shirt.

This cycle will not change until Arsene resign's or the board threaten his job. The whole club reeks of complacency and inadequacy. Apparently we do not work on defending, we have players wanting to leave (our only some what decent players), we have a leadership team who think we are a business model first and football club second.....its getting painful to watch.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Excellent posts by both NQ and Hobson, both have really hit the nail on the head.

We have developed an arrogance at this club in the thought that all of our players are of a certain quality. This stems from Arsene and this arrogance trickles all the way down to the players. Now thats not a bad thing if you are a Cesc, Henry, Pires, RVP etc, but when it trickles down to the sub class level of players who Arsene puts his unblinding faith in then it is a big big problem.

We have passed on quality player after quality player in the transfer window, due to Arsene not wanting to kill someone we already have in the squad and sumiszing that the purchase of "similar" player would be a waste of resource against the clubs p&l. I am referring to the real quality and not over priced footballer such as Alonso, Mata, Huntaleer etc.

Now when the players with actual quality leave we are left with the sub level of arrogant, self entitled footballers who either do not care enough about the club or are not good enough to wear the Arsenal shirt.

This cycle will not change until Arsene resign's or the board threaten his job. The whole club reeks of complacency and inadequacy. Apparently we do not work on defending, we have players wanting to leave (our only some what decent players), we have a leadership team who think we are a business model first and football club second.....its getting painful to watch.

Wait till we sell Theo and Sagna.

[hobson's choice]

When we lost Vieira, it devastated the team. Our style of play changed and we couldn't play how we used to even though it was just one player. .

I really don't think Viera's lost was that big, cause the style of football we played for the first 2/3 seasons he left was great.

[gunnerrrrr]

I really don't think Viera's lost was that big, cause the style of football we played for the first 2/3 seasons he left was great.

Have to agree with this, some of the best football i have seen us play was in the 07/08 season when the midfield was Rosicky Cesc Flamini Hleb. Up untill the inevitable injury to Rosicky the football was sensational. I recall we went to anfield and even though we drew 1-1, we tore Liverpool a new one.

[Power n Glory]

I really don't think Viera's lost was that big, cause the style of football we played for the first 2/3 seasons he left was great.

I thought it was a massive hit because we couldn't and haven't won anything since. We were weaker in the middle but you are right, we still played attractive football and dominated possession. Now, our football is totally unattractive and we can't even dominate games. Tippy tappy was boring to watch at times but we have strayed far from that now and can't even reproduce that style.

[Niall_Quinn]

Vieria had dropped a couple of levels by the time he left. Wenger was probably right to let him go. We got unlucky with Diaby but the real mistake was sticking with him. We've done that with a lot of players, including RvC. We seem to lose every time. Even Ramsey has dropped several levels while we have persisted with him. Wenger doesn't react decisively in these situations.

[hobson's choice]

I thought it was a massive hit because we couldn't and haven't won anything since. We were weaker in the middle but you are right, we still played attractive football and dominated possession. Now, our football is totally unattractive and we can't even dominate games. Tippy tappy was boring to watch at times but we have strayed far from that now and can't even reproduce that style.

Even with Viera, we were not gonna better that Chelsea side, lets be honest. What that side needed when Viera left was another bonafide striker.

And I know many won't agree with this, but the loss of Reyes was huge, when you couple that with the loss of Pires, and the decline of Freddie, it was too much too soon.

[Niall_Quinn]

Even with Viera, we were not gonna better that Chelsea side, lets be honest. What that side needed when Viera left was another bonafide striker.

And I know many won't agree with this, but the loss of Reyes was huge, when you couple that with the loss of Pires, and the decline of Freddie, it was too much too soon.

Reyes was a magnificent player, at the centre of so much of our play when you watch the reruns. We had quality all over the pitch in those days. Cole instead of santos, for example. Obviously makes a huge difference.

[Power n Glory]

Had high hopes for Reyes and wanted him to play as striker along with Henry. It went sour for him quickly and just couldn't adjust to life over here in London.

[hobson's choice]

Even with Viera, we were not gonna better that Chelsea side, lets be honest. What that side needed when Viera left was another bonafide striker.

And I know many won't agree with this, but the loss of Reyes was huge, when you couple that with the loss of Pires, and the decline of Freddie, it was too much too soon.


Honestly, looking back now, that 05-09 Arsenal side, would've won this current PL off the past couple of years and maybe even a CL in the past couple of years, The quality at the top level has really dropped off. There really aren't any great teams at all. Since WC 2006, that's why to a certain extent, I question the greatness of Pep's Barca, where are the great teams they've had to to face.

[hobson's choice]

Had high hopes for Reyes and wanted him to play as striker along with Henry. It went sour for him quickly and just couldn't adjust to life over here in London.


To me, that whole incident with Aragones, and his comments about Henry and the way Henry treated Reyes, really did a number on his already fragile head. Wenger really needed to deal with that situation better.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

To me, that whole incident with Aragones, and his comments about Henry and the way Henry treated Reyes, really did a number on his already fragile head. Wenger really needed to deal with that situation better.

Can't remember what did he do to him excatly.

[gunnerrrrr]

To me, that whole incident with Aragones, and his comments about Henry and the way Henry treated Reyes, really did a number on his already fragile head. Wenger really needed to deal with that situation better.
yep, with Reyes it was a mental thing. He was a monster of a footballer.

[gunnerrrrr]

Can't remember what did he do to him excatly.

in a nut shell bullied him

[Power n Glory]

To me, that whole incident with Aragones, and his comments about Henry and the way Henry treated Reyes, really did a number on his already fragile head. Wenger really needed to deal with that situation better.

Yeah, that was badly handled. Kid still couldn't speak English while here plus had that Real Madrid phone hoax played on him. Besides that, his girlfriend had a miscarriage and that must have really added to the strain as well.

[milla]

Vieria had dropped a couple of levels by the time he left. Wenger was probably right to let him go. We got unlucky with Diaby but the real mistake was sticking with him. We've done that with a lot of players, including RvC. We seem to lose every time. Even Ramsey has dropped several levels while we have persisted with him. Wenger doesn't react decisively in these situations.

Ramsey has never dropped any level. He is what he was before his injury, overrated Welsh ****. :coffee:

[Olivier's xmas twist]

in a nut shell bullied him
Didn't he do that to alot of the kids etc, which is some of the story's i heard. Players like Ade would not play when he did etc.

[hobson's choice]

in a nut shell bullied him


As a Black person, I understand Henry anger about that situation, but he had to understand, that Reyes had nothing to do with Aragones being a prick, and should've just talked to Reyes, I mean damn, Reyes is a damn Gypsy, he's dealt with pricks like Aragones before. Henry really didn't handle that situation well at all with Reyes.

[hobson's choice]

Aragones owes Reyes a long overdue apology to Reyes, because putting Reyes in that position was just downright disgusting. And Reyes came out of that incident the worse off, even tho he was just a bystander

[Özim]

Vieria had dropped a couple of levels by the time he left. Wenger was probably right to let him go. We got unlucky with Diaby but the real mistake was sticking with him. We've done that with a lot of players, including RvC. We seem to lose every time. Even Ramsey has dropped several levels while we have persisted with him. Wenger doesn't react decisively in these situations.
I'm not sure I agree, can you remember the world cup when France got to the final, the guy was immense.

More importantly though he was a leader on the pitch and the opposition was intimidated before they even walked on the pitch in a match.

A massive loss and a massive mistake by Wenger for the sake of a few million.

[Özim]

People talk about Reyes as if he was amazing, but if he was so good why has he achieved next to nothing even after leaving, surely it can't be a mental thing at all his clubs after all he went back home to Spain.

I think he had a few good matches, but never really proved himself a top player at any club he's played.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

As a Black person, I understand Henry anger about that situation, but he had to understand, that Reyes had nothing to do with Aragones being a prick, and should've just talked to Reyes, I mean damn, Reyes is a damn Gypsy, he's dealt with pricks like Aragones before. Henry really didn't handle that situation well at all with Reyes.

Spot on, As a Black person i agree with you. Its understadable how Henry reacted and anyone would have done the same. However it should have been handled better by AW and Henry and Reyes.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

People talk about Reyes as if he was amazing, but if he was so good why has he achieved next to nothing even after leaving, surely it can't be a mental thing at all his clubs after all he went back home to Spain.

I think he had a few good matches, but never really proved himself a top player at any club he's played.

He won the Europa league twice. And La liga and the won the title with Benfica.

More then what we have won since he left.

[gunnerrrrr]

He won the Europa league twice.

and the La Liga

[Cripps_orig]

and the La Liga

Scoring twice in the league winning game

[Niall_Quinn]

But apart from all that, what has he ever won?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Scoring twice in the league winning game

He was excellent there, shame they sold him tbh.

[Cripps_orig]

He was excellent there, shame they sold him tbh.
Probably cos he was on loan there

[Özim]

He won the Europa league twice. And La liga and the won the title with Benfica.

More then what we have won since he left.
A bit part player for Real in la liga, scored a couple in his last game but they were that impressed they didn't sign him.

2nd Europa league trophy he was a bit part player with only 17 games and 3 goals and only 4 games in Europe.

He's picked up some trophies for sure, but the question is how integral was he to those trophy wins, in two cases I highlighted he was not a regular or key player. Noone really talks about him around Europe and no big clubs seem to be linked with him either suggesting he's not exactly setting the world on fire.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Probably cos he was on loan there

fair do's

[Özim]

But apart from all that, what has he ever won?
Yeah let's be honest if he was the world beater you think he is he wouldn't be at Sevilla right now.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Scrap that then. We go back to this question and we'll use one of our own players. Do you think Theo Walcott should hit the gym and work on his strength and work rate to improve his dribbling skills? I'm not ignoring the need for strength, just establishing what is more important.

i think walcott has improved from the first few years he was here and i think a large part of that comes from the fact he has bulked up. that cannot be denied. he used to be a weedy winger with little presence, he certainly is no ronaldo, but he's usually hacked down nowadays instead of brushed off the ball. that's correlated to the fact he's stronger which in itself breeds more confidence when he's dribbling. its also to do with his pace and also skill which has improved.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah let's be honest if he was the world beater you think he is he wouldn't be at Sevilla right now.

Get off it, compared to what we have now he was messi. Not a world beater but a great component in a proper football team.

[Özim]

Get off it, compared to what we have now he was messi. Not a world beater but a great component in a proper football team.
Can't argue about compared to what we have now, wouldn't be top of my list to sign though, there's better out there.

Ben Arfa would do for me.

[gunnerrrrr]

Can't argue about compared to what we have now, wouldn't be top of my list to sign though, there's better out there.

Ben Arfa would do for me.
You can compare Reyes to Hleb and Flamini.

The later two, like Reyes complemented our playing style perfectly, now neither has on individual terms gone on and set the world alight but they were all perfect for what we needed, and whats worse is their respective replacements have either moved on, or never really arrived.

You could even say the same about Nasri to an extent. At his best for us he has never been that good for city.

What Wenger and the board are doing now is not bringing in quality, or if they are Wenger is coaching the quality right out of them or just using them in the wrong way. I may get slaughtered for this but i think Asharvin is a pure example.

Yet again he was very good for Russia during the Euros, but Wenger has relegated him to the bench.

Surly with Carzola looking burnt out already and Podolski having a little strop, Asharvin would be the ideal candidate to get some playing time. However Wenger will just continue to persist with the team and tactics that has gotten us our worst start ever to a prem league season, and after last seasons start that is really saying something.

[Power n Glory]

i think walcott has improved from the first few years he was here and i think a large part of that comes from the fact he has bulked up. that cannot be denied. he used to be a weedy winger with little presence, he certainly is no ronaldo, but he's usually hacked down nowadays instead of brushed off the ball. that's correlated to the fact he's stronger which in itself breeds more confidence when he's dribbling. its also to do with his pace and also skill which has improved.

Bulking up has helped him to fend off challenges but it hasn't turned him into a winger that is able to beat his man consistently like Ribery or Robben. Seems obvious to me that he'd more deadly for us if he could dribble like Hazard rather than being built like John Terry. Seems like common sense to me. But we can agree to disagree in this one.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Bulking up has helped him to fend off challenges but it hasn't turned him into a winger that is able to beat his man consistently like Ribery or Robben. Seems obvious to me that he'd more deadly for us if he could dribble like Hazard rather than being built like John Terry. Seems like common sense to me. But we can agree to disagree in this one.

:blink: ...erm yes.... and i never said he had to be.

[fakeyank]

hold on, our dodgy defence once again costs us the points and the first and main talking point is about a player that scored two vital goals for us? if all you can see as a fan is complete and utter negativity then there is no point watching. why would you? the issue of him taking a penalty is on the list of concerns but nowhere near the top.

why were we even in that position in the first place, because of giroud? we lose a two nil lead because of our striker? why analyse a game back to front?

:gp:

The pel or the miss thereafter is not the issue. The issue is how you can let go off a two goal lead at home against Fulham!

[Power n Glory]

:blink: ...yes.... and i never said he had to be.

Then why are saying strength and work rate are the most important attributes when it comes to dribbling? :doh:

Surely if that were true bigger players would be the best when it comes to dribbling? Meh, mad conversation.

[Xhaka Can’t]

:gp:

The pel or the miss thereafter is not the issue. The issue is how you can let go off a two goal lead at home against Fulham!

Pretty much.

The focus here on what went wrong yesterday is badly misplaced. Some posters have even gone so far as to state they were glad the pel was missed because had it been scored it would have 'papered over the cracks'.

Well yesterday the cracks were there to be seen and they were in the defence.

[Power n Glory]

Yeah, the focus has to be on our leaky defence. At the start of the season the general consensus seemed to be around our need to keep clean sheets and get back to the basics when defending. We scored three goals yesterday and were two goals up. That should be enough to see off any opponent.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Then why are saying strength and work rate are the most important attributes when it comes to dribbling? :doh:

Surely if that were true bigger players would be the best when it comes to dribbling? Meh, mad conversation.

you've got it completely wrong. if walcott turned into the size of huddlestone would he still be a decent dribbler?

have a sense of rationale for christ's sake.

[Power n Glory]

you've got it completely wrong. if walcott turned into the size of huddlestone would he still be a decent dribbler?

have a sense of rationale for christ's sake.

:lol: You are not getting it. Ibrahimovic is built like a centreback but what's the most important attribute he has that makes him a great dribbler?

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

ibrahimovic is a 'great' dribbler? :haha:

[Power n Glory]

ibrahimovic is a 'great' dribbler? :haha:

Really? No wonder why we're having this sort of conversation. Google him :lol:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

yeah i mean the first thing that comes to mind when we think of ibra is that he's just sooooooo good at dribbling. his work rate and engine every game is downright magical aint it?

the same ibra who probably cant be arsed to run to the toilet for a piss and just goes in a bottle cotched on his sofa

your use of examples to try and catalyse your argument is comical. one step forward 3 steps back.

my favourite was the heskey one

black messi :bow:

:rose:

[Power n Glory]

yeah i mean the first thing that comes to mind when we think of ibra is that he's just sooooooo good at dribbling. his work rate and engine every game is downright magical aint it?

the same ibra who probably cant be arsed to run to the toilet for a piss and just goes in a bottle cotched on his sofa

your use of examples to try and catalyse your argument is comical. one step forward 3 steps back.

my favourite was the heskey one

black messi :bow:

:rose:

You don't know about Ibra. Google him and check him on YouTube. One of the best with the ball at his feet.

Why do you think I'm using extremes? Simple points jut aren't connecting with you. Forget it. If you don't know you don't know. But go check out Ibra and see if you can find the goal for Ajax where he dribbles through the whole team.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

i know a lot about ibra my friend, i lived in sweden for 7 years, which probably doesn't mean much to you but they idolise him there. every football programme and documentary is about him. all the kids ever talk about when playing football is him.

he's great with his feet but one of the last attributes i acknowledge with him would be dribbling. there's skill, power of shot, explosiveness, aerial threat, heading, intelligence, many others that i would speak about first, the list goes on. i wouldnt sit in a pub and say 'oh yeah that ibra, he's a great dribbler man'.

great dribblers are messi, maradona, ronaldo, ronaldinho in his prime.

no point trying to rationalise with someone who's scaling and use of examples are beyond ridiculous :lol:

[gunnerrrrr]

i know a lot about ibra my friend, i lived in sweden for 7 years, which probably doesn't mean much to you but they idolise him there. every football programme and documentary is about him. all the kids ever talk about when playing football is him.

he's great with his feet but one of the last attributes i acknowledge with him would be dribbling. there's skill, power of shot, explosiveness, aerial threat, heading, intelligence, many others that i would speak about first, the list goes on. i wouldnt sit in a pub and say 'oh yeah that ibra, he's a great dribbler man'.

great dribblers are messi, maradona, ronaldo, ronaldinho in his prime.

no point trying to rationalise with someone who's scaling and use of examples are beyond ridiculous :lol:

tbf i think he means great with the ball at his feet in tight spaces, which he is.

I think you are referring to running at pace with the ball ala Robben, Messi etc....

out of interest what would you say about Iniesta or Zidane?

[Power n Glory]

It's worth checking this out along with the video on Ibra.

http://www.squidoo.com/best-dribblers-in-soccer

Also found that silly goal he scored for Ajax.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZgqsaDnsEq8

But you're missing the whole point of why I've included Ibrahimovic. He's a big lad, built like a centreback, poor work rate, an attribute you mention, but he's one of the few forwards built like that with quick feet and dribbling skills. His superior ball control and technique is what makes him different to a battering ram type centreback like Heskey or someone like Drogba or even our boy Giroud. Again, strength and work rate aren't the most important attributes when it comes to dribbling. Ball control and technique is more important. Look at Hleb. He was a weakling but still a good dribbler. Anyway..... interesting discussion.

[Power n Glory]

tbf i think he means great with the ball at his feet in tight spaces, which he is.

I think you are referring to running at pace with the ball ala Robben, Messi etc....

out of interest what would you say about Iniesta or Zidane?

Thanks. You're getting what I'm saying. I'm not just talking about quick wingers.

[Kano]

more depressing stats

Arsenal's last 8 PL games at the Emirates

Won 2, Drawn 4 Lost 2.

Opposition: Chelsea x2, QPR, Sunderland, Norwich, Fulham, Saints & Wigan

[Lord Nelson]

We are football supporters. There's precious little football going on at this club right now. Nothing to actually support. The club has been hijacked by money grabbing ****s, the players don't seem to give a shit, the manager spouts shit about winning the big prize, 4th place. What are we actually supporting? The essence of Arsenal? The memory of it? This isn't about taking the good times with the bad, this is about a club that claims the bad times are a trophy. I sat through the Terry Neill years, Don Howe, George Graham. Often very tough going but never as utterly futile as what we are enduring now. There was still a club back then, but I don't see that now. I see a corporation feeding off those memories in order to keep the audience captive. And you feel a bit of a **** to be so easily manipulated. makes you want to switch off if only to maintain a little dignity.
Wow Mr Quinn! I thought that I was the oldest fart on here! I had a season ticket when Terry Neil was Manager! That was bloody dreadful, but it still felt like our club, the players were in touch with the fans etc. Arsenal are just a business now, our club has gone, so fucking sad.

[Kano]

In 1992-93 and 1994-95 we had 17 points after 11 games in both seasons and we finished 10th and 12th respectively.

fuck

[Kano]

not sure if this is good or bad

Mannone made eight saves in one game against Fulham, only two Arsenal keepers have made more in a single PL game since 2006.