Koscielny

[Özim]

Today he made another calamitous error in the penalty area and from what I've seen his career with us has been littered with these, more often than not these also lead to goals.

IMO he's not good enough for this level as he doesn't seem to be able to concentrate for 90 minutes and makes some horrendous errors (more than a good defender should IMO), just curious as to what the opinion is on him...do people think he's good enough or not?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He did what it took to keep a clean sheet. :bow:

Is he good enough, isn't he? No idea, if we're poorly organised by Wenger then it isn't a great environment for any defender. Doing what Kos did lacks match intelligence though which I think is something innate, going down to ten men for 90 minutes (roughly) is mountainous compared to just going 0-1 down.

Having said all that, communication with Szhananay obviouisly wasn't there between the two of them (as was the case in the League Cup final).

[Özim]

I just think he makes very rash decisions, there's times when he's very good but there's always those moments of madness.

I'm not sure if it can be coached out of him. Today was a shocker, why would anyone do that?

[Niall_Quinn]

We conceded zero goals when Kos was on the pitch. The stats prove he's quality. It was only when he went off things fell apart.

[Özim]

We conceded zero goals when Kos was on the pitch. The stats prove he's quality. It was only when he went off things fell apart.
A point well made, I hadn't considered that.

[PGFC]

If he was warned by the ref before the game that holding would be punished severely then no, he's a fucking liability, if however as I suspect this was just a referee being a **** then he's just been unlucky and been red-carded for something that goes on week in week out seemingly un-noticed by all authorities until now, typically when everything seems to be going against us anyway, we're the ones who get shit on, but that's football for you.

[Boss]

If he was warned by the ref before the game that holding would be punished severely then no, he's a fucking liability, if however as I suspect this was just a referee being a **** then he's just been unlucky and been red-carded for something that goes on week in week out seemingly un-noticed by all authorities until now, typically when everything seems to be going against us anyway, we're the ones who get shit on, but that's football for you.

Pretty much.

[LDG]

Fucksake. Maybe he shouldn't have made the challenge, but the problem there was caused by letting cuty get in an easy position to get that cross in. We get turned all the time, and it's because we drop off and allow teams to play through us.

Shit fucking defending all round. Singling out players is poor judgement.

[Niall_Quinn]

There's holding and there's Koscielny's version of hold me and never let e go. Deffo pen, deffo red, deffo stupid shit of a player who has cost us this game.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fucksake. Maybe he shouldn't have made the challenge, but the problem there was caused by letting cuty get in an easy position to get that cross in. We get turned all the time, and it's because we drop off and allow teams to play through us.

Shit fucking defending all round. Singling out players is poor judgement.

But at least be bit sneaky if you are going to ate the guy out. Don't make it so easy for the ref, especially when it's Dean.

[Özim]

The guy borderline assaulted Dzeko..that wasn't shirt pulling that was tree hugging :lol:

It's not singling him out per say, he seems to get an easy ride compared to the other defenders when IMO he's just as bad. He makes errors like this regularly, why is he any better than Vermaelen?

[Özim]

There's holding and there's Koscielny's version of hold me and never let e go. Deffo pen, deffo red, deffo stupid shit of a player who has cost us this game.
Pretty much, that wasn't the stuff we see every week, it was a lot more obvious and worse than that.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

There's holding and there's Koscielny's version of hold me and never let e go. Deffo pen, deffo red, deffo stupid shit of a player who has cost us this game.

/thread

[Niall_Quinn]

I would like to apologise for apologising about calling Kos a piece of shit.

[GP]

Never a red card. You see exactly that go unpunished in every other premier league game.

The ref has cost us the game.

[Özim]

Seriously, how anyone can think that isn't a red card is beyond me, he was literally holding onto Dzeko for dear life....100% red card and another awful error and you rarely see such an obvious and stupid example of holding in the PL.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Nah, our defending cost us this game.

[Joker]

Never a red card. You see exactly that go unpunished in every other premier league game.

The ref has cost us the game.

Surely you're on the WUM? How can you say the referee cost us the game? It was an obvious red card.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Seriously, how anyone can think that isn't a red card is beyond me, he was literally holding onto Dzeko for dear life....100% red card and another awful error and you rarely see such an obvious and stupid example of holding in the PL.

its a penalty but not a red. dzecko wouldnt have got to the ball first, therefore it isnt denying a clear goalscoring opportunity given chensey would have got there first. however it is a penalty.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Surely you're on the WUM? How the fuck can you say the referee cost us the game? It was an obvious red card.

It wasn't an obvious red card.

[Joker]

its a penalty but not a red. dzecko wouldnt have got to the ball first, therefore it isnt denying a clear goalscoring opportunity given chensey would have got there first. however it is a penalty.

Yes he would have got to the ball if Koscielny hadn't wrestled him to the ground. Watch it again.

[GP]

its a penalty but not a red. dzecko wouldnt have got to the ball first, therefore it isnt denying a clear goalscoring opportunity given chensey would have got there first. however it is a penalty.

:gp:

Fucking hell, it says it all when Ollie is the only one that's right.

[Niall_Quinn]

Nah, our defending cost us this game.

:gp: we handed then two goals by being shit at the back. Otherwise we were the better team overall, which is odd because we were pretty shit. City are a joke club, a billion to produce shit like that.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Yes he would have got to the ball if Koscielny hadn't wrestled him to the ground. Watch it again.


i have. chesney would have got there first. penalty yes, red card no,

[Özim]

It wasn't an obvious red card.
I just don't get how you can say that, he hauled him down in the penalty area and held onto to him....100% red.

[Ollie the Optimist]

I just don't get how you can say that, he hauled him down in the penalty area and held onto to him....100% red.

if he would have 100% got to the ball first. he wouldnt have, therefore its not a clear goalscoring opportunity so not a red

[Niall_Quinn]

Replay shows the kompany sending off is fair enough.

[Özim]

its a penalty but not a red. dzecko wouldnt have got to the ball first, therefore it isnt denying a clear goalscoring opportunity given chensey would have got there first. however it is a penalty.
The pundits thought it was 100% red, so did most people...they even read the rules of the game....it's a 100% red unless you don't know the rules I'm afraid.

[GP]

if he would have 100% got to the ball first. he wouldnt have, therefore its not a clear goalscoring opportunity so not a red

Exactly right.

[Joker]

i have. chesney would have got there first. penalty yes, red card no,

http://cadfael.tv/image/src/1358093455405.gif

Chesney would not have got there first, he wasn't even in the frame until after Dzeko's already been hauled down.

[Özim]

http://cadfael.tv/image/src/1358093455405.gif

Chesney would not have got there first, he wasn't even in the frame until after Dzeko's already been hauled down.
100% red, like I say the read the rules at half time and confirmed it.

Looks worse everytime I see it.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I just don't get how you can say that, he hauled him down in the penalty area and held onto to him....100% red.

It wasn't an obvious red - it wasn't an obvious not red. It is an area of discretion - the ref could have gone either way.

[Özim]

It wasn't an obvious red - it wasn't an obvious not red. It is an area of discretion - the ref could have gone either way.
I can't agree, I've seen loads it and that's a penalty and red in my book, he clearly stops Dzeko getting to the ball by grabbing hold of him with both arms and hauling him down.

Ref made the decision and the pundits agreed, if you follow the laws of the game then he had to be sent off.

[Niall_Quinn]

It wasn't an obvious red - it wasn't an obvious not red. It is an area of discretion - the ref could have gone either way.

Not really, it was mike dean.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I can't agree, I've seen loads it and that's a penalty and red in my book, he clearly stops Dzeko getting to the ball by grabbing hold of him with both arms and hauling him down.

Ref mad the decision and the pundits agreed, if you follow the laws of the game then he had to be sent off.

Like I implied, I'm not prepared to die in a ditch arguing either way on this decision. He is sent off - I've no complaint even though a penalty provided the most obvious remedy for this.

[Boss]

i have. chesney would have got there first. penalty yes, red card no,

Pretty much.

For all those splaffing about how it was a guaranteed red card etc, when was the last time you saw a red card given for grappling like that in the box? Never.

Penalty and nothing else should have been the correct decision, the only thing sad is that we're apparently not big enough of a club anymore to get a clear bias in our favour at home.

[Marc Overmars]

I did think it was a harsh red given that although it was a foul and penalty, you don't often see those awarded so to get a red as well was a surprise.

I like Kos but good lord he is prone to some fuck ups.

[Kano]

Today he made another calamitous error in the penalty area and from what I've seen his career with us has been littered with these, more often than not these also lead to goals.

IMO he's not good enough for this level as he doesn't seem to be able to concentrate for 90 minutes and makes some horrendous errors (more than a good defender should IMO), just curious as to what the opinion is on him...do people think he's good enough or not?
No, no problem with him doing that today because defenders do it every week and it becomes a case of whether the ref see's it or not.

I have more of a problem with defenders switching off, or bad positioning or terrible decision making.

This is really not something to hammer him with after this game.

There are better defenders out there of course but he is far from a terrible defender.

[Niall_Quinn]

No, no problem with him doing that today because defenders do it every week and it becomes a case of whether the ref see's it or not.

I have more of a problem with defenders switching off, or bad positioning or terrible decision making.

This is really not something to hammer him with after this game.

There are better defenders out there of course but he is far from a terrible defender.

Which is not to say that if he applies himself and works hard he couldn't become a terrible defender one day.

[Özim]

No, no problem with him doing that today because defenders do it every week and it becomes a case of whether the ref see's it or not.

I have more of a problem with defenders switching off, or bad positioning or terrible decision making.

This is really not something to hammer him with after this game.

There are better defenders out there of course but he is far from a terrible defender.
You do see grappling and shirt pulling in the box yes, but not as bad as that...there was no chance of ever getting away with that challenge.

I just think he keeps making those errors which are costly for us, we can't keep giving teams goals and easy chances at goals. I personally think we should start again at the back, the group we have will never make a good defensive unit.

[Dennis Bendtner]

Dean gave it because it was an isolated incident in open play. It wasn't the standard free-for-all set-piece where the ref sees so much of it and just thinks fuck it. Of course, if that foul was given more regularly we would have multiple penalties a game, so that's misfortune, but he was in an awkward position and made a rash decision that we have seen from him before. Technically he's very good and we've seen him play very well against high-class strikers but it's the rash decision-making that tends to cost us.

[Kano]

You do see grappling and shirt pulling in the box yes, but not as bad as that...there was no chance of ever getting away with that challenge.

I just think he keeps making those errors which are costly for us, we can't keep giving teams goals and easy chances at goals. I personally think we should start again at the back, the group we have will never make a good defensive unit.
look, it's heat of the moment stuff, a last ditch attempt to stop a goal, which I'd prefer to see rather than standing by watching it happen. if he hadn't of, a goal was more than likely - and let's not sit here analysing a slow motion gif that makes everything seem very rational and sensible in hindsight.

our positional lapses cause us far more problems over the season and he doesn't make most of them - in fact, mistakes he tends to make come his attempts to stop something happening.

vermaelen, our wonderful captain, is a far bigger problem back there. he has caused us so many problems over the seasons it is unbelievable. goals covered them up at first but now we are finally seeing what he's about. vermaelen needs a thread to highlight what a fuck up he's become.

[Niall_Quinn]

Maybe Wenger made him captain in an attempt to get rid of him. It has worked well before.

[Özim]

look, it's heat of the moment stuff, a last ditch attempt to stop a goal, which I'd prefer to see rather than standing by watching it happen. if he hadn't of, a goal was more than likely - and let's not sit here analysing a slow motion gif that makes everything seem very rational and sensible in hindsight.

our positional lapses cause us far more problems over the season and he doesn't make most of them - in fact, mistakes he tends to make come his attempts to stop something happening.

vermaelen, our wonderful captain, is a far bigger problem back there. he has caused us so many problems over the seasons it is unbelievable. goals covered them up at first but now we are finally seeing what he's about. vermaelen needs a thread to highlight what a fuck up he's become.
The reason I made this thread is because I feel Vermaelen gets a lot of criticism whilst Koscielny largely gets away with little when he's responsible for quite a few key mistakes which cause goals.

The challenge for me was more than rash, I simply can't understand how anyone could think they'd get away with putting their arms round someone and holding onto them, rash would be a pull, a nudge but that wasn't rash for me it was very poor.

Dzeko turned him, once that had happened there's nothing you can do without giving away a penalty and perhaps getting yourself sent off.

IMO Koscielny has been prone to errors for his whole time here and at this stage of his career and at his age he should now have cut these out, I believe this is a trait of his game that won't disappear. That's not excusing Vermaelen, because he's been very poor as well.

[Kano]

The reason I made this thread is because I feel Vermaelen gets a lot of criticism whilst Koscielny largely gets away with little when he's responsible for quite a few key mistakes which cause goals.

The challenge for me was more than rash, I simply can't understand how anyone could think they'd get away with putting their arms round someone and holding onto them, rash would be a pull, a nudge but that wasn't rash for me it was very poor.

Dzeko turned him, once that had happened there's nothing you can do without giving away a penalty and perhaps getting yourself sent off.

IMO Koscielny has been prone to errors for his whole time here and at this stage of his career and at his age he should now have cut these out, I believe this is a trait of his game that won't disappear. That's not excusing Vermaelen, because he's been very poor as well.
i don't think Kos gets away with much really. last season he was very good and improved considerably from the season beforehand, this season? not as good but i would still say our best centre back of the three, following my merts and verm - which is how i saw it at the start of the season.

if the rest of the prem were leading the way in defence qualities then i would probably give him a much harder time but let's face it, there aren't many that can claim to be performing much better. maybe it's a post-euro thing as we've seen in years past, i'm not sure, but on current form, there aren't a whole host of cb's in the premier i would rush out to replace him with.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't think you can pick between TV, Kos or Merts in terms of who will guarantee you a major fuck up each match. They are all dodgy defenders. I think Merts has been the worst of the bunch in recent weeks with his lack of pace (more like lack of ability to actually move) really showing him up and costing us. Gibbs as well can be host and cold. Cheney too, a mixed bag. Only Sagna seems to play to an acceptable standard at the back, but he's so woeful going forward and destroying our momentum. I think we have the worst group of defenders in the league and have had for years. And a lot of the praise for that needs to go to Wenger and the coaches of course. What the fuck they have been doing for the last 8 years in terms of the defence is one of those deep, deep mysteries.

[IBK]

I think blaming Kos is wide of the mark. Ref was probably right on a very strict application of the law. Problem is that defenders see this kind of thing unpunished most of the time. We all want our players to do what is needed to prevent the other side scoring - Kos fell slightly the wrong side of the line. He is not playing as well as last season, but that's because he hasn't had a run of games. Jury's out on him, but not for today.

[Grebbo]

Our entire defence is scary. It needs to be ripped up and started again. Merts has the turning speed of a double decker bus, Vermaelen still dives in like an 18yr old, Kos and Gibbs are just plain shit. As for Sagna... well he blatantly wants out because his form has bombed.

[Power n Glory]

The guys an idiot. Seemed harsh but you can't rugby tackle the opposition.

[selassie]

Our entire defence is scary. It needs to be ripped up and started again. Merts has the turning speed of a double decker bus, Vermaelen still dives in like an 18yr old, Kos and Gibbs are just plain shit. As for Sagna... well he blatantly wants out because his form has bombed.

I don't think it would matter what we spent and who we have in Defence. It will remain sh*te until Arsene/Bouldy sort out the tactical side of our game. It's really not just defence, for sure Defence is and has been a problem for years, but the team as a whole, suck at Defending/closing down/doing the ugly stuff.

I'm really tired off all of us going on about the same things every single season, we have a multitude of problems with the team and I don't believe any of them will be fixed until Arsene is gone.

[GP]

He's a quality player.

[LDG]

I think blaming Kos is wide of the mark. Ref was probably right on a very strict application of the law. Problem is that defenders see this kind of thing unpunished most of the time. We all want our players to do what is needed to prevent the other side scoring - Kos fell slightly the wrong side of the line. He is not playing as well as last season, but that's because he hasn't had a run of games. Jury's out on him, but not for today.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Whilst you cannot condone Koscielny hauling down a player like that (and for me the red and pen were justified), people always have to single out players for sometimes unwarranted critisism. The final act was Kos's fault. But you have to ask why he was in that position in the first place.

Kos, unfortunately, ends up as the last man in so many occasions, as we fail to deal with problems in midfield, and out wide.

Wenger likes his team to play with a high line, and therefore, this means the midfield must stop the ball from turning our defenders so often. And we just don't do it.

We're also playing too narrow, and the gaps the fullbacks are leaving (generally due to Gibbs being left 2 on 1) is ridiculous.

Therefore Kos is usually the one who has the last ditch attempt to stop a cross (see own goals) or dealing with someone bearing down on goal. And for every one we concede there are two or three times where Kocielny has saved our bacon, this year and last. He's not playing as well this year, like you say, an dI think it is down to lack of a run in the team.

Whilst he, like any other defender on this planet, makes a mistake or two, the fact that our defensive unit is not drilled, has no shape half the time, and is not protected at all times by our midfield, means we're prone to conceding stupid goals all of the time.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The guys an idiot. Seemed harsh but you can't rugby tackle the opposition.

I had little bit chuckle at the thought of Kos playing rugby.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think it would matter what we spent and who we have in Defence. It will remain sh*te until Arsene/Bouldy sort out the tactical side of our game. It's really not just defence, for sure Defence is and has been a problem for years, but the team as a whole, suck at Defending/closing down/doing the ugly stuff.

I'm really tired off all of us going on about the same things every single season, we have a multitude of problems with the team and I don't believe any of them will be fixed until Arsene is gone.

Wenger has to go. We're a shambles of a team and it's because of him. He has no idea what he's doing anymore. This is a brand new team and the defensive line up is totally different to what we had four years ago and it's the same shit different toilet.

[Grebbo]

I don't think it would matter what we spent and who we have in Defence. It will remain sh*te until Arsene/Bouldy sort out the tactical side of our game. It's really not just defence, for sure Defence is and has been a problem for years, but the team as a whole, suck at Defending/closing down/doing the ugly stuff.

I'm really tired off all of us going on about the same things every single season, we have a multitude of problems with the team and I don't believe any of them will be fixed until Arsene is gone.

I dunno, I think it's more the quality of defender rather than tactics. Yes, Wenger has never been a great tactician but the two goals yesterday and Kos getting sent off were down to having shit defenders. Bould was part of the best defence ever seen and even he can't coach them into being half decent players.

Verms is 27? He still plays like a kid. Way too rash. No amount of coaching is going to fix him now. Now amount of coaching or tactics is going to improve Merts' turning speed of an elephant.

Wenger has won trophies in England. He's also built good defences in England. But he had much better players than he does now - that's the only difference.

[StamfordBrdige]

http://cadfael.tv/image/src/1358093455405.gif

Chesney would not have got there first, he wasn't even in the frame until after Dzeko's already been hauled down.

:haha::haha::haha:

What the actual fuck was Kos thinking? That is fucking hilarious.

I'm assuming a mistake has been made in the poll question.

Kos is more than good enough for the PL. The question then becomes which level in the PL at which point it gets a bt tricky. I don't think he's good enough to start for a PL title challenging side. He is however a very good squad player for said title challenging side.

[Grebbo]

Wenger has to go. We're a shambles of a team and it's because of him. He has no idea what he's doing anymore. This is a brand new team and the defensive line up is totally different to what we had four years ago and it's the same shit different toilet.

Wenger with great players is a great manager.

Wenger with average players is a good manager.

A manager is only as good as his players.

[Marc Overmars]

He's got the ability to be a top defender but he's also incredibly prone to individual errors. I can't remember the last person we had who was this much of a magnet for trouble.

[Letters]

:lol:

It was a clear pen. As for the red card, I dunno. He was last man but I'm not sure it was a clear goal scoring opportunity. They still had some work to do to control the ball and get the shot away. A yellow card and penalty would have done IMO. You get a game then. Soon as he was off it killed it and we had little or no chance of getting much.

[GP]

He's got the ability to be a top defender but he's also incredibly prone to individual errors. I can't remember the last person we had who was this much of a magnet for trouble.

See LDGs post above, explains it quite well, I think.

[Marc Overmars]

I think being the last man is just part and parcel of the work of a defender, particuarly a centre back. It's something everyone needs to deal with because there's no fail safe way to defend, there will always be times where they need to be desperate to be effective. I'm sure Kos isn't helped by the fact our defending as a team is so poor but it's difficult to ignore him as an individual when these moments keep happening to the same person.

Vermaelen has a good action-man sidekick.

[Kano]

He's got the ability to be a top defender but he's also incredibly prone to individual errors. I can't remember the last person we had who was this much of a magnet for trouble.
vermaelen

[Marc Overmars]

vermaelen

Verm/Kos is worse than Gallas/Toure, IMO.

[Özim]

People seem to be happy enough to absolve him of blame and instead blame those around him, good defenders take responsibility IMO, I'm not saying they make no mistakes, but they aren't as error prone as he is.

Schoolboy defensive error by him yesterday IMO, this wasn't the play of an experienced player trying to keep the attacker out, this was the kind of defending you expect from defenders of the calibre of Squillaci.

Yes he has good games, but these clear as day mistakes seem to be part and parcel of his game they're not isolated incidents, he's 27 as well he's not a kid and has had long enough to take command and stop making these basic errors IMO.

[Power n Glory]

http://cadfael.tv/image/src/1358093455405.gif

Chesney would not have got there first, he wasn't even in the frame until after Dzeko's already been hauled down.

Did someone slip him a brown paper bag before the game? I hope his team mates and manager have laid into him about that. Idiot!

[Power n Glory]

Wenger with great players is a great manager.

Wenger with average players is a good manager.

A manager is only as good as his players.

With a strong line up of players, any half decent manager would be able to win some silverware if given the right amount of time. As Harry once said, you'd have to be a mug not to do well.

We don't have the same resources as City and Chelsea and it's unlikely we'll ever have a line up of great players that dwarf everyone else in quality. That's why Wenger isn't right for the job anymore. He once had technically superior players to everyone else in the league and now that isn't the case. Even when we had great players we could never win back to back titles or win the Champions League. We never really dominated. But that's a side issue. We need a manager that can get the best out of the resources we have because Wenger is failing to do that.

[Grebbo]

With a strong line up of players, any half decent manager would be able to win some silverware if given the right amount of time. As Harry once said, you'd have to be a mug not to do well.

We don't have the same resources as City and Chelsea and it's unlikely we'll ever have a line up of great players that dwarf everyone else in quality. That's why Wenger isn't right for the job anymore. He once had technically superior players to everyone else in the league and now that isn't the case. Even when we had great players we could never win back to back titles or win the Champions League. We never really dominated. But that's a side issue. We need a manager that can get the best out of the resources we have because Wenger is failing to do that.

No manager in the world would get Arsenal to finish 3rd, above Chelsea don't forget, but Wenger did last season. 4th is our level. Anything above that is an over achievement.

[Power n Glory]

No manager in the world would get Arsenal to finish 3rd, above Chelsea don't forget, but Wenger did last season. 4th is our level. Anything above that is an over achievement.

But a cup trophy and Champions League finish isn't beyond us.

A few years ago when we had Cesc, Nasri and RVP, we were title contenders and only needed one or two players to push on. 2% away from domination...remember thos quotes? Now it looks like we have no chance of winning the league ever again and that's down to his neglect and stubborn attitude along with an incompetent Board. Standards and expectations have taken a serious slump after selling Cesc and Nasri.

[Grebbo]

But a cup trophy and Champions League finish isn't beyond us.

A few years ago when we had Cesc, Nasri and RVP, we were title contenders and only needed one or two players to push on. 2% away from domination...remember thos quotes? Now it looks like we have no chance of winning the league ever again and that's down to his neglect and stubborn attitude along with an incompetent Board. Standards and expectations have taken a serious slump after selling Cesc and Nasri.

Yeah I agree but the next Cesc/RVP (not so much Nasri) wont join us any more. We're not a big draw. A Chamberlain/Zaha type is more attainable. English players who know they'll get game time and improve.

I don't know what the answer is. I don't think Wenger is doing a great job but I also don't think he's doing a bad job. Which managers would want to join us knowing we can't/wont try and sign top players?? Lots of managers but not many, if any, top managers.

With or without Wenger we wont be competing for the League or Champs Lge. A domestic cup maybe but I'm sure winning a Capital One Cup wont satisfy the fans for very long. If we'd of beaten Birmingham :lol: a few years ago Wenger would still be just as unpopular today.

[StamfordBrdige]

No manager in the world would get Arsenal to finish 3rd, above Chelsea don't forget, but Wenger did last season. 4th is our level. Anything above that is an over achievement.

Mate, Newcastle finished above us last season.

Last season was a clusterfuck of major proportions.

But you won the CL i hear some say. The CL win was awesome and all but that was about as jammy a CL win as you'll ever see. Liverpool in 05 was child's play compared to that shit we pulled last season.

You did well to finish 3rd but we were plain awful last year, just awful. Hopefully we'll do better this season.

[WMUG]

Still think that shouldn't be a red card in general, if it results in a penalty. A penalty is, by definition, a goal scoring opportunity, so Kos didn't deny City a GSO, he gave them one.

[Grebbo]

Mate, Newcastle finished above us last season.

Last season was a clusterfuck of major proportions.

But you won the CL i hear some say. The CL win was awesome and all but that was about as jammy a CL win as you'll ever see. Liverpool in 05 was child's play compared to that shit we pulled last season.

You did well to finish 3rd but we were plain awful last year, just awful. Hopefully we'll do better this season.

Yeah I agree with you but we still managed to finish above Chelsea and their expensively assembled team. It was more by luck than anything really as Spurs should easily have finished third. We even had the dodgiest of all goalkeeping displays from WBA's keeper on the final day to help us get over the line.

I still don't think any Arsenal fan can expect us to finish above Chelsea/Man U/City. Their squad's are miles ahead of ours.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Kos has the ability to be a great defender, but we will never see him become one under wenger.

[Power n Glory]

Yeah I agree with you but we still managed to finish above Chelsea and their expensively assembled team. It was more by luck than anything really as Spurs should easily have finished third. We even had the dodgiest of all goalkeeping displays from WBA's keeper on the final day to help us get over the line.

I still don't think any Arsenal fan can expect us to finish above Chelsea/Man U/City. Their squad's are miles ahead of ours.

2% away from domination. Bollocks! Wenger was saying that at a time when Chelsea were strong and Man Utd had Ronaldo and Tevez...before City arrived on the scene. Our estimations have dropped so badly because we've sold off key players and lack ambition. It's not because other teams have grown far beyond our reach, it's just us falling off so rapidily. Man Utd and Chelsea are nowhere near as strong as they once were. If we had managed to keep a hold of our players whilst adding one or two more additions over the years, we'd have been in good shape!

[Niall_Quinn]

2% away from domination. Bollocks! Wenger was saying that at a time when Chelsea were strong and Man Utd had Ronaldo and Tevez...before City arrived on the scene. Our estimations have dropped so badly because we've sold off key players and lack ambition. It's not because other teams have grown far beyond our reach, it's just us falling off so rapidily. Man Utd and Chelsea are nowhere near as strong as they once were. If we had managed to keep a hold of our players whilst adding one or two more additions over the years, we'd have been in good shape!

That would have required investment in the team, which is not a club policy.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

i think we could have the top defender in each position playing at the back and we'd still concede just as many goals, i generally think a defender is only as good as the organisation of the coaching allows them to be and you could see that at the beginning of the season where the defending was immense at times, the same level is just not there from the same players. Lack of organisation and communication leading to basic errors.
Obviously Koscielny's sending off was more of an individual lack of judgement, but even down to ten men the two goals we conceded were avoidable either switching off on free kicks like the first goal or beaten too easily down the flanks for the second goal.
Commentators always seem to blame our conceeding goals from corners or free kicks into the box as a problem with zonal marking, but the problem is not the zonal marking it's not attacking the ball when it comes into the box....our defence personnel wise has changed quite a bit in the last few years therefore you can't have the same problems and just blame the defenders.
We could have bought Phil Jagielka (who by the way is massively overrated) we could have bought Gary Cahill and we would still be conceeding these goals, either from set pieces or being caught cold by holding too much of a high line.

[Grebbo]

I find it a bit odd people thinking our defenders constantly making huge individual errors is down to Wenger's ineptness.

Our defenders aren't kids and they weren't cheap. They're all late 20's other than Gibbs and they should have ironed out their fuck ups by now. They're simply bad defenders. It's nothing to do with Wenger being a moron. Yes, Wenger doesn't get the team to press as a team and it this is a problem BUT our defenders should still get the basics right.

Kos conceding the penalty yesterday - Plain stupidity. Wenger and Bould couldn't have prevented that.
Defenders standing around arguing about the free kick awarded that leads to the second goal - Just dumb defending.

Sol Campbell seemed to do ok under Wenger.

It really is all down to the quality of player at Wenger's disposal. I don't think there's any other reason as to why we're so shit these days.

[SayNoMore]

And who is bringing all these morons to the club? Wenger.

Either way the buck stops at the manager as these are his players and it his coaching. The quality of players is all down to Wenger, he gave to go ahead to replace quality(rvp) with shit so we reap what we sow. Nothing wil ever change until Wenger goes.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

how many more times will this guy cost us in big games? if its not a penalty, its a red card. if its not a red card, its an own goal.

[Power n Glory]

I find it a bit odd people thinking our defenders constantly making huge individual errors is down to Wenger's ineptness.

Our defenders aren't kids and they weren't cheap. They're all late 20's other than Gibbs and they should have ironed out their fuck ups by now. They're simply bad defenders. It's nothing to do with Wenger being a moron. Yes, Wenger doesn't get the team to press as a team and it this is a problem BUT our defenders should still get the basics right.

Kos conceding the penalty yesterday - Plain stupidity. Wenger and Bould couldn't have prevented that.
Defenders standing around arguing about the free kick awarded that leads to the second goal - Just dumb defending.

Sol Campbell seemed to do ok under Wenger.

It really is all down to the quality of player at Wenger's disposal. I don't think there's any other reason as to why we're so shit these days.

I think a lesser manager or someone having to make do with the lower tier clubs would do a better job with our defenders. With all our attacking flair we struggle to breakdown a lot of teams while it often takes a simple move or one pass to put our defence in danger. A simple cross or flick on in most cases. Campbell, Adams, Keown...they were all taught how to defend by other managers. They had a lot of experience and well drilled in the basics. So far we have had Gallas, Toure, Senderos, Hoyte, Eboue, Djourou, Squallacci, Clichy, Traore....none of them could defend properly. Now we have Kos and Vermaelen. When you have to go back almost 10 years to find a solid defensive Wenger team then you have to start questing the managers tactics or his eye for players. It's probably both. How comes he's been on such a long stretch of signing duds yet someone like Moyes can work on a fraction of our budget and pull out teams that are difficult to breakdown?

[Özim]

I dunno at 27 he's not got long to stop making errors, he'll be 30 before we know it and that'll be that. A player at 27 should be nearing the peak of their powers and that's a worry. You can't blame a manager or other players when you make basic errors as he does.

We should try and sign Hummels from Dortmund, he's young quality and would be the first step to rebuilding the defence.

[Kano]

We should try and sign Hummels from Dortmund, he's young quality and would be the first step to rebuilding the defence.
why in gods name he would want to leave them for us is way beyond me.

[Özim]

why in gods name he would want to leave them for us is way beyond me.
To learn cockney English...sorry I meant French?