New manager

[Niall_Quinn]

He talks about their unquestionable commitment and spirit and says you have to give credit to the effort they put in, he seems to watch something different from everyone else, moreover when he's asked about being let down everytime by a squad that he believes in he deflects the question by saying we live in a world of criticism.

I just don't see any acceptance of the shortcomings anytime he speaks, why does he absolutely refuse to see we're just not up to it, especially after pretty much 9 years of the same thing, it's really puzzling.

It seems to me he feels his achievements in the last 9 years are success and that being genuine contenders until the end or actually winning something by beating the best means little.

He's not prepared to criticise the players in public. It's really that simple. If he heaps the same criticism on them as the media and the pundits and the rest then he's only cutting his own throat. This is what he said, let everyone else criticise and he'll get on with his job. Surely nobody thinks he says the same things behind the scenes as he does in public? Do you think after the chav game he took them all to one side and told them they have great spirit and that was it?

[Niall_Quinn]

And people wonder why he didn't bother with this after the Chelsea game :lol:
Whatever he says he'd get hammered, if he says nothing he still gets hammered.

It's even worse when you consider this whole media business is nothing more than an exercise in queuing up the quotes and soundbites that can be used to flog temporary news and sensationalism. There's nothing constructive about any of it, just the hangers on gabbing whatever slice of the game they can while putting zero back.

[BlindFaith_8]

Sad end to the season and possible his tenure at Arsenal. He had the best opportunity by far win the championship this year and get all anti wenger fans behind him. However from being league leaders for 75% of the season we are now scrapping, actually scrapping is too strong; we are now scrambling around working out points and games in hand against Everton or even possiby the Spudz. We should have signed Higuain and Suarez in the summer and the treble was on, I mean League,Uefa CL and FA Cup. But oh no he went on the last 2 hours of the August transfer window and signs an attacking midfielder only becase Real Madrid wated to get rid of him to raise money for the Bale deal. He had all summer to set hi intent and should have made that substantial offer for both Suarez and Higuain. Instead we get offer the buy out clause plus a quid, OMG, then we are led to believe that Higuain is done and dusted only to find out he's in Naples signing for Beneitiz's Napoli? Then 2nd chance came in January and we were league leaders still and again this was his moment to cemnet our 1st place till end of season; Again he fucks around and then last minute decides to sigh an injured defensive midfielder to covr our crocked players?? I cant feel sorry for him or accept his same monotonous dross of sheer bullshit. I have heard it too many times and untl Wenger leaves our club will be happy with 4th place whilist Chelsea, City, Liverpool over take us for the next few seasons. If anyone is happy to go through with thi crap for the next 2 or 3 years please tell me why??

[Power n Glory]

He's not prepared to criticise the players in public. It's really that simple. If he heaps the same criticism on them as the media and the pundits and the rest then he's only cutting his own throat. This is what he said, let everyone else criticise and he'll get on with his job. Surely nobody thinks he says the same things behind the scenes as he does in public? Do you think after the chav game he took them all to one side and told them they have great spirit and that was it?

Considering we’ve just seen another flat performance, why is it impossible to assume he doesn’t say similar things to his players? We didn’t play any different to how we played against Chelsea, we just faced a weaker team. Fullbacks were still bombing forward, poor passing in the middle, a suicidal highline, no organisation. I’m beginning to think he told the players to wipe that Chelsea loss from memory without actually dealing with the problem. I think the players are under the illusion that if they stay patient, press the team high up the field, the opposition will tire an opportunity will come. That’s probably why he can’t fault them too much because it’s his philosophy and gameplan.

[AFC Leveller]

Considering we’ve just seen another flat performance, why is it impossible to assume he doesn’t say similar things to his players? We didn’t play any different to how we played against Chelsea, we just faced a weaker team. Fullbacks were still bombing forward, poor passing in the middle, a suicidal highline, no organisation. I’m beginning to think he told the players to wipe that Chelsea loss from memory without actually dealing with the problem. I think the players are under the illusion that if they stay patient, press the team high up the field, the opposition will tire an opportunity will come. That’s probably why he can’t fault them too much because it’s his philosophy and gameplan.

Agree, esp the bit about starting the game exactly like we did the Chelsea game. We played Liverpool a week after our 5-1 thrashing and i remember we started the game exactly the way we did an Anfield and Sturridge missed two huge chances for them and we were lucky not to be behind. That game could have turned into another spanking. Liverpool also missed a hatful of chances and had a blatant pel denied. We dont start games strongly anymore (maybe Bayern being the exemption) and good teams will punish us.

[Özim]

He's not prepared to criticise the players in public. It's really that simple. If he heaps the same criticism on them as the media and the pundits and the rest then he's only cutting his own throat. This is what he said, let everyone else criticise and he'll get on with his job.

I find this odd, other managers do it when it called for, don't see a problem myself, it's not the even the fact he doesn't criticise them it's the fact he goes as far as praising them after such a dire performance, praising them with things that aren't really true.



Surely nobody thinks he says the same things behind the scenes as he does in public? Do you think after the chav game he took them all to one side and told them they have great spirit and that was it?

Hard to tell sometimes, our form has been poor recently and the drubbings have really led to a "reaction" from the players, they just let the same thing happen again, had a good win against Spurs but that was backs against the wall stuff against a very average Spurs side.

[Power n Glory]

Agree, esp the bit about starting the game exactly like we did the Chelsea game. We played Liverpool a week after our 5-1 thrashing and i remember we started the game exactly the way we did an Anfield and Sturridge missed two huge chances for them and we were lucky not to be behind. That game could have turned into another spanking. Liverpool also missed a hatful of chances and had a blatant pel denied. We dont start games strongly anymore (maybe Bayern being the exemption) and good teams will punish us.

It was the same approach. Highline, fullbacks bomb forward, Arteta and Flaimi push up as far as possible and contain Swansea in their own half, keep the ball moving. That’s Wengerball and what he preaches to the players so what else can he criticise besides individual errors which is something I don’t always agree with unless a player is really asking for it. We have a systematic problem and explains why he’s never out of his seat screaming or making substantial changes. He believes this style of play will eventually lead to goals and in some cases we’re just unlucky or experience the odd ‘accident’. I don’t think he’s ever going to change things.

[fakeyank]

Wengerball :rose:

I really hope for his sake that we can win the FA Cup, manage 4th and he walks off. That'd be the best thing he can do for Arsenal Football Club.

[torontogooner]

Regardless if we win the FA Cup, Wenger should start planning his exit speech.

How does Wenger not find it highly embarrassing to keep on trotting out the same lame excuses. The game against Chelsea was an accident and the Swansea game was the result of a hangover. The game against Man City was also an accident, likewise Liverpool, the opening season loss against Villa was an accident. He blames everything on something else, but never himself. He insults us fans every frigging time he spouts this bullshite.

Why do our players get injured so often, and so severely and why does it take them so long to regain match fitness?

Wigan then Hull or Sheffield, there should be no debate about possibly winning. The cup should be a lock. If he cannot put a winning team out against these teams with the appropriate winning tactics then he has no place in our club.

Wenger out!

[Globalgunner]

Walk away from 8m quid with journalists waiting to hear his wise words twice a week?. For a man obsessed with football and who craves attention. This will not be easy. At every other club he will be held accountable for each debacle. Not like here where, "its okay Arsene as long as we secure CL qualification" is the hardest remonstration he will ever hear. It wont be easy. He wouldnt last 6 months in any other top job. If he retires, the only question he will ever from journalists is "Arsene do you think your CV is complete without a CL trophy?". I doubt he will leave easily. He seems to easily shake these disasters off and move on. It will take a momentous effort from the fanbase or some even more abject tonkings from Mourinho to get him out of here.

[Letters]

Craves attention :lol:

[fakeyank]

Walk away from 8m quid with journalists waiting to hear his wise words twice a week?. For a man obsessed with football and who craves attention. This will not be easy. At every other club he will be held accountable for each debacle. Not like here where, "its okay Arsene as long as we secure CL qualification" is the hardest remonstration he will ever hear. It wont be easy. He wouldnt last 6 months in any other top job. If he retires, the only question he will ever from journalists is "Arsene do you think your CV is complete without a CL trophy?". I doubt he will leave easily. He seems to easily shake these disasters off and move on. It will take a momentous effort from the fanbase or some even more abject tonkings from Mourinho to get him out of here.

:gp:

If 8-2, 6-3, 5-1, 6-0 hasnt changed the man, I fear what it'll take for him to realize that he is past it. 10-0 hammering possibly?

[Niall_Quinn]

Craves attention :lol:

Yes, he is an exhibitionist voyeur as you know.

[Globalgunner]

Yes, he is an exhibitionist voyeur as you know.

Pinky and Perky the two little bears right on cue. to save Wengers butt, as always

[fakeyank]

:lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Pinky and Perky the two little bears right on cue. to save Wengers butt, as always

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Gwg_CUzB4rQ/TSGGmJ43zBI/AAAAAAAAAsI/VLC05E12ZFw/s1600/moaning%20myrtle.jpg

[torontogooner]

And it's about fucking time that Wenger realized that he is not bigger than the club, never will be.

When he is being picked over by maggots six feet under we will still be THE ARSENAL!

Gooners who go to games at the Emirates need to remind him of this.

[Niall_Quinn]

His realisation he is not bigger than the club has been at the very heart of the work he has done to transform the club over the past decade. He would have been better off behaving like he was bigger than Arsenal by promptly leaving for Madrid. Then we could have got Owen Coyle in to propel us to the heights of football, or maybe even a couple of bean counters who love Microsoft Excel more than life itself.

[Globalgunner]

His realisation he is not bigger than the club has been at the very heart of the work he has done to transform the club over the past decade. He would have been better off behaving like he was bigger than Arsenal by promptly leaving for Madrid. Then we could have got Owen Coyle in to propel us to the heights of football, or maybe even a couple of bean counters who love Microsoft Excel more than life itself.
Madrid..yeah right,,,,I can only guess how long that would have lasted
The only option to Wenger is Owen Coyle...of course

Your trying hard but no one else but you and some jittery sods are still convinced that the way forward is Wenger

[Özim]

He'd have never left for Madrid, too much pressure and expectation, fans also expect star signings, plus his philosophy behind the "4th place" being a trophy just wouldn't wash. Madrid was never going to happen, he'd have to be a fool to go there knowing he wouldn't last more than a season.

What's better season after season not having to deliver trophies and earning a lot, or one season earning a bit more and then needing to find a new job?

[torontogooner]

His realisation he is not bigger than the club has been at the very heart of the work he has done to transform the club over the past decade. He would have been better off behaving like he was bigger than Arsenal by promptly leaving for Madrid. Then we could have got Owen Coyle in to propel us to the heights of football, or maybe even a couple of bean counters who love Microsoft Excel more than life itself.

Seriously?

The transformation took place during the first 9 years, for the last decade we have won nothing, that translates into a deteriorating transformation.

[Globalgunner]

He'd have never left for Madrid, too much pressure and expectation, fans also expect star signings, plus his philosophy behind the "4th place" being a trophy just wouldn't wash. Madrid was never going to happen, he'd have to be a fool to go there knowing he wouldn't last more than a season.

What's better season after season not having to deliver trophies and earning a lot, or one season earning a bit more and then needing to find a new job?

What!. Lord Weng, hes a master of the game a maestro of the bench, A Machiavelli of tactics. He rode into Highbury and saved us from seasons of near relegation. Took us to Europe where we've never been before. Rescued us from near bankruptcy and insignificance. Made us a titan of Europe and sadly failed to win both Europa and CL finals he got to.....but we all know they were both freak results and accidents. Clubs all over the world are scrambling for his services.....If only Arsenal would let him go....but no. Hes amassed too many 4th place trophies for them to ever contemplate it. Love Weng we do. Nobody else does it better...............Carly`s song was really about him

[GP]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYe3RHQlwtI

[Ollie the Optimist]

He'd have never left for Madrid, too much pressure and expectation, fans also expect star signings, plus his philosophy behind the "4th place" being a trophy just wouldn't wash. Madrid was never going to happen, he'd have to be a fool to go there knowing he wouldn't last more than a season.

What's better season after season not having to deliver trophies and earning a lot, or one season earning a bit more and then needing to find a new job?

funny how madrid were interested in him in the early 2000's then, you know that time when he was winning doubles, undefeated league titles etc

[Marc Overmars]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYe3RHQlwtI

Just realised I know that Moh guy. Well, know of him.

He's from Milton Keynes and his family used to run the local shop by my high school.

#pointlessfact

[Özim]

Let him finish his project, when the injured players come back next year :lol:

[Özim]

funny how madrid were interested in him in the early 2000's then, you know that time when he was winning doubles, undefeated league titles etc

Funny how he didn't go? He's not a risk taker, going to Madrid would have been a big risk.

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYe3RHQlwtI

This guy needs to stop.

Wenger's had loads of transfer windows that he's fucked up in when he's had the cash.

Nothing on the pitch shows me that Wenger is the right man for the job.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Funny how he didn't go? He's not a risk taker, going to Madrid would have been a big risk.

so was agreeing to keep Arsenal in the top four for five years so that the banks would loan us the money to build the emirates

[Özim]

This guy needs to stop.

Wenger's had loads of transfer windows that he's fucked up in when he's had the cash.

Nothing on the pitch shows me that Wenger is the right man for the job.

I get tired of listening to this guy, he's always got some excuse and a when tomorrow comes speech.

[Munchies]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYh1tAMLDRM

Agree with this guy , as usual.

Lamp post comment :haha:

[Özim]

so was agreeing to keep Arsenal in the top four for five years so that the banks would loan us the money to build the emirates

No that's not a risk, his job hasn't never been on the line, going to Madrid would have been a much bigger risk, it is for any manager due to the pressure and expectation which is way above anything here.

[Munchies]

I get tired of listening to this guy, he's always got some excuse and a when tomorrow comes speech.

Exactly, he needs to wake up.

[Ollie the Optimist]

No that's not a risk, his job hasn't never been on the line, going to Madrid would have been a much bigger risk, it is for any manager due to the pressure and expectation which is way above anything here.

so if you win 5 trophies in 3 years and then don't go to madrid, your reputation suffers because you "haven't taken a risk"

ok then

[Özim]

so if you win 5 trophies in 3 years and then don't go to madrid, your reputation suffers because you "haven't taken a risk"

ok then

That wasn't the question was it, the question was what was a bigger risk staying or leaving. There's no question going to Madrid would have been a bigger risk.

[Özim]

Cesc at 1:05


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_Z5El142vA

[Ollie the Optimist]

That wasn't the question was it, the question was what was a bigger risk staying or leaving. There's no question going to Madrid would have been a bigger risk.

given he had just won the league unbeaten, id say staying and keeping Arsenal in the top four for 5 years with that pressure is a lot of a bigger risk. english football was changing then, chelsea suddenly had money, united too, while la liga is a 2 team league.

[Munchies]

Cesc at 1:05


http://www.arsenalfantv.com/wenger-must-go-fans-argue/

:haha:

That black guy in the cap, pro Wenger, is in denial too. 'All the players are lightweight' , well who's the genius who keeps picking them then ?

[Ollie the Optimist]

and I'm fairly sure that you have called for Guardiola to take over from Arsene at one point. a man famous for taking risks, like leaving barca and taking over the best team in europe

[Özim]

given he had just won the league unbeaten, id say staying and keeping Arsenal in the top four for 5 years with that pressure is a lot of a bigger risk. english football was changing then, chelsea suddenly had money, united too, while la liga is a 2 team league.

No sorry, Madrid is one of the highest pressure jobs in football, staying was the easier option, that's obvious.

He never went to Madrid at any point, if you believe what you read he had the opportunity, but like I said he would have never left, too much risk and too much pressure, they wouldn't put up with failure to deliver success.

[Özim]

and I'm fairly sure that you have called for Guardiola to take over from Arsene at one point. a man famous for taking risks, like leaving barca and taking over the best team in europe

No I never called for Guardiola to take over.

[Ollie the Optimist]

No sorry, Madrid is one of the highest pressure jobs in football, staying was the easier option, that's obvious.

He never went to Madrid at any point, if you believe what you read he had the opportunity, but like I said he would have never left, too much risk and too much pressure, they wouldn't put up with failure to deliver success.

utter bollocks. how is not winning a trophy in one season more pressure then knowing you have to deliever top four pretty much every year for 8 years or the club struggles massively financially. thats pressure.

Being told you have no money, will have to sell your players before you can buy, must finish top four every year is much more pressure then spending hundreds of millions on whoever you want and winning a trophy, especially in a league as crap as la liga

[Özim]

utter bollocks. how is not winning a trophy in one season more pressure then knowing you have to deliever top four pretty much every year for 8 years or the club struggles massively financially. thats pressure.

Being told you have no money, will have to sell your players before you can buy, must finish top four every year is much more pressure then spending hundreds of millions on whoever you want and winning a trophy, especially in a league as crap as la liga

Utter bollocks....really? Madrid jobs is one of the biggest jobs in football, if you don't win the league and/or CL you're out on your ear, if you don't think that's pressure you're utterly deluded, at Arsenal there's f*ck all pressure from the board, that's the problem.

Wenger likes it the way it is at Arsenal, it suits him and his philosophy, if he could spend on nobodies and bring through kids he'd do it, thing is the fans won't accept that now.

[Globalgunner]

Utter bollocks....really? Madrid jobs is one of the biggest jobs in football, if you don't win the league and/or CL you're out on your ear, if you don't think that's pressure you're utterly deluded, at Arsenal there's f*ck all pressure from the board, that's the problem.

Wenger likes it the way it is at Arsenal, it suits him and his philosophy, if he could spend on nobodies and bring through kids he'd do it, thing is the fans won't accept that now.
Give it up. they live in a make believe world where keeping Arsenal in the top 4 with the highest tickets in the whole of football. With the 5th highest turn over, where you cant pay the debt back faster than a certain amount each year is the highest pressure in sports. If im not wrong Wengers salary is about half or a 3rd of the value of the stadium repayments. If he would stop frittering money away on dross and perennially disabled players, wed probably have an extra 30m in the kitty each year. Our wage bill is 50% higher than the Spuds for 1 point difference most years.

[Niall_Quinn]

I get tired of listening to this guy, he's always got some excuse and a when tomorrow comes speech.

He spells out the reality well which is why the pram base doesn't want to hear it.

[GP]

He spells out the reality well which is why the pram base doesn't want to hear it.

Pretty much.

[Munchies]

He spells out the reality well which is why the pram base doesn't want to hear it.

Pretty much.

Struggling to finish 4th each season when he has had significant funds available?

How he fielded an unproven 20 year old from Ligue 2 against Bayern Munich?

How each season the team collapses?

How his record against top teams over the last 5 seasons is played 15, won 1 and lost like 13 ?

How his tactics never seem to work?

This reality?

[Özim]

He spells out the reality well which is why the pram base doesn't want to hear it.

It's not reality, it's making excuses the spankings we've taken this season are unacceptable, one of the guys on the videos said the whole club should be embarrassed and we should, how often do other big clubs get spanked like this?

If analyse Wenger transfers in the last 10 years and what you see is a man who signs players because he thinks they have potential them not because the team needs them, that's why 3/4 of our squads are CM.

This guy has excuses after every single game, I stopped believing we could realistically win the title when Liverpool spanked up back in February (I was shocked people genuinely believed we could still win it after that drubbing last Saturday you just don't recover and win titles after beatings like that at this stage of the season), teams going for the title just don't get spanked like that, especially come crunch time. It was all very predictable though, once you looked at our run from the Liverpool game onwards you could see what was going to happen, because the same thing has happened time and time again for going on 9 years now, the money doesn't matter because ultimately we've got a manager who can't inspire players and signs players with no real desire to succeed.

If you let Wenger spend the money we supposedly have he'll just waste in on players we don't need who can pass 5 yards and link up with everyone under the sun, he also play them out of position, it's a waste of time giving him money to spend to build a successful side, he doesn't have it in him anymore.

I simply have no belief or trust in this guy anymore, he never delivers on what he says, I think it was 3 years ago he said this was the season the team had to finally deliver, they failed and he just ignore his words just like he always does.

[Letters]

Pinky and Perky the two little bears right on cue. to save Wengers butt, as always

If you want to criticize Wenger then there's plenty of ammo right now.
You don't have to make up stuff...

[Letters]

I stopped believing we could realistically win the title when Liverpool spanked up back in February
When did you start believing it? At the start of the season I certainly didn't think we were genuine contenders so I wouldn't use that as the benchmark for success this season.

[Munchies]

When did you start believing it? At the start of the season I certainly didn't think we were genuine contenders so I wouldn't use that as the benchmark for success this season.

Myself personally, when we had the chance to go 7 clear..

[Özim]

When did you start believing it? At the start of the season I certainly didn't think we were genuine contenders so I wouldn't use that as the benchmark for success this season.

November/early December time when we were flying and built up a lead, though if we're honest the signs were there that we weren't going to do it in December when we had a good opportunity to build a nice lead and had the bad run against the better sides, our form since then has been average (certainly offensively anyway) despite the wins.

[JonasTC]

Im seriously embarrassed to call myself an Arsenal fan, if the majority of Arsenal fans are this way... Most of you sound like Man City/Chelsea fans. We're not suppossed to be spoiled teenage kids, we're gunners, we should be proud of our club and how it has been build. We have a legend managing our club, he held us in the top, despite our financial problems, where most others would end up in as a mid-table team, and have now build a base that will launch us into the only legit top club in the premier league, the 3 clubs above us right now are having 50m+ losses each year, there is absolute no future in that, they might win a couple of trophies here and there the next 10-20 years, but they'll end up joining all the other failed sugar daddy clubs in some time, im proud that in 50 years time, there will still be an Arsenal team i can cheer on.

So fucking what if we got bashed twice this season, we're missing all our key players. Take Suarez, Sturridge, Gerrard and Coutinho out of Liverpool, take Aguero, Toure, Kompany and Zabaleta out of City, take Hazard and 3 other cunts out of Chelski and you would see those team struggling in months were they'll be playing all the other top teams. I'll take our starting 11 over any of the other top teams starting 11 any day, this summer we'll add a top striker no doubt, you're deluded if you dont think we will, and then we'll be competing for the league for real next year. Adding a new manager will just restart what we've build for years and you guys will continue to cry like spoiled brats.

[Munchies]

Im seriously embarrassed to call myself an Arsenal fan, if the majority of Arsenal fans are this way... Most of you sound like Man City/Chelsea fans. We're not suppossed to be spoiled teenage kids, we're gunners, we should be proud of our club and how it has been build. We have a legend managing our club, he held us in the top, despite our financial problems, where most others would end up in as a mid-table team, and have now build a base that will launch us into the only legit top club in the premier league, the 3 clubs above us right now are having 50m+ losses each year, there is absolute no future in that, they might win a couple of trophies here and there the next 10-20 years, but they'll end up joining all the other failed sugar daddy clubs in some time, im proud that in 50 years time, there will still be an Arsenal team i can cheer on.

So fucking what if we got bashed twice this season, we're missing all our key players. Take Suarez, Sturridge, Gerrard and Coutinho out of Liverpool, take Aguero, Toure, Kompany and Zabaleta out of City, take Hazard and 3 other cunts out of Chelski and you would see those team struggling in months were they'll be playing all the other top teams. I'll take our starting 11 over any of the other top teams starting 11 any day, this summer we'll add a top striker no doubt, you're deluded if you dont think we will, and then we'll be competing for the league for real next year. Adding a new manager will just restart what we've build for years and you guys will continue to cry like spoiled brats.

Mate listen to yourself.

We're not asking Wenger to spend the lot we have got and get us in a shit load of debt. We're in desperate need of improvements on the pitch. There are some areas of the squad which need investment in. Wenger has failed to recognise this time and time again. Yes we might get a 'top striker' in the summer, but Wenger has proven that he's not the right man for the job anymore. The tactics he employs are shot. He is always outsmarted by other managers now, last 5 seasons against the top 4, played 15, won once. Another battle for fourth is on now, hurrah!

I don't see the need of giving him 'another summer', I thought last season was when we were going to push on ? he does bloody nothing.

[Globalgunner]

The same "next year" BS they spouted last is the same as this year and the next.......They are pissing themselves that without Wenger the Spuds will overtake us. They don't wish to win anything. Winning is asking too much. Why arent we just happy the way things are. Its the fear, thats all. Wenger till the meteorites hit again

[Ollie the Optimist]

The same "next year" BS they spouted last is the same as this year and the next.......They are pissing themselves that without Wenger the Spuds will overtake us. They don't wish to win anything. Winning is asking too much. Why arent we just happy the way things are. Its the fear, thats all. Wenger till the meteorites hit again

i think fear of change is acceptable though. people my age, only ever know Arsenal with Arsene as the manager, i admit, the prospect of Arsenal without him, while soon to become reality is also scary, and also very sad (well it is for me, i bloody love the man). He has been manager for a 1000 games, and 18 years, that is a hell of a long time so of course its natural for there to be fear about change, just like there would have been for united fans recently.

of course, not every new manager will be a Moyes but nor will they be a Wenger (when he first arrived) either. I don't think anyone in the fan base is happy with recent results, but there are plenty of decent arguments for AW staying and going, using the argument people are scared of change is IMO a bit stupid because for many, change is scary although i think it is needed.

[Niall_Quinn]

The same "next year" BS they spouted last is the same as this year and the next.......They are pissing themselves that without Wenger the Spuds will overtake us. They don't wish to win anything. Winning is asking too much. Why arent we just happy the way things are. Its the fear, thats all. Wenger till the meteorites hit again

The "same" being totally different in this case. Do some fans actually hate those new commercial deals? They must be bloody inconvenient when having to make up arguments about how nothing has changed at the club. No trophies, that's true, that's the same. But happy the way things are? Things aren't anything like how they were 10 and particularly 20 years ago. Football in general isn't anything like it used to be either. The club has been transformed. But of course it is, same old, same old, if you refuse to look.

[Ollie the Optimist]

i really can't wait for the new manger though. Its going to be so much fun watching all those who wanted AW out defend the new manager for any similar mistakes, while the people who wanted AW to stay hammer him for said mistakes.

We all know it will happen. :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

i really can't wait for the new manger though. Its going to be so much fun watching all those who wanted AW out defend the new manager for any similar mistakes, while the people who wanted AW to stay hammer him for said mistakes.

We all know it will happen. :lol:


Whoever he is, out!

[Globalgunner]

The "same" being totally different in this case. Do some fans actually hate those new commercial deals? They must be bloody inconvenient when having to make up arguments about how nothing has changed at the club. No trophies, that's true, that's the same. But happy the way things are? Things aren't anything like how they were 10 and particularly 20 years ago. Football in general isn't anything like it used to be either. The club has been transformed. But of course it is, same old, same old, if you refuse to look.
You havent said anything that makes sense. Things have changed?, Well yes they have Im fatter round the waist than 10 years ago, . So what. Has anything stayed the same in the last 10 years, Cars, weather.?. Instead of making points you play with words. Arteta`s not quick but he has legs, has pace......
Tell me did Wenger negotiate the new commercial deals?. Its another reason to keep him no doubt.

[Niall_Quinn]

You havent said anything that makes sense. Things have changed?, Well yes they have Im fatter round the waist than 10 years ago, . So what. Has anything stayed the same in the last 10 years, Cars, weather.?. Instead of making points you play with words. Arteta`s not quick but he has legs, has pace......
Tell me did Wenger negotiate the new commercial deals?. Its another reason to keep him no doubt.

Or it's possible you genuinely can't see it, in which case your posts are understandable.

Wenger's remit, keep us near the top, keep us in the CL, keep the transfer budget to close on zero. Which helps, keep the stadium full, keeps the commercial deals coming in. All boxes ticked without even one slip-up. Now the next phase is go and build a top squad to compete with the very best in Europe. Or get Owen Coyle, I can't recall, it was one of those.

PS. Owen Coyle is mentioned because some people hilariously suggested him and it's just funny. He's mentioned for comedy value. I can say David Moyes if you like that better.

[Neo Reloaded]

I can see both sides of the argument....

No one can doubt what Wenger has done on little resources.

However there are other managers who can do a good job too....Martinez would be my choice - tactically clever, hungry for success, has worked on limited budgets and PL experienced

[Globalgunner]

Or it's possible you genuinely can't see it, in which case your posts are understandable.

Wenger's remit, keep us near the top, keep us in the CL, keep the transfer budget to close on zero. Which helps, keep the stadium full, keeps the commercial deals coming in. All boxes ticked without even one slip-up. Now the next phase is go and build a top squad to compete with the very best in Europe. Or get Owen Coyle, I can't recall, it was one of those.

PS. Owen Coyle is mentioned because some people hilariously suggested him and it's just funny. He's mentioned for comedy value. I can say David Moyes if you like that better.

Keep us near the top. Euphemism for 4th. We are in complete agreement there, Where we differ is that Wenger isnt the only one who can do it with the 4th highest wage bill and 3rd highest pay packet in the PL. Your dedication to keep Wenger is the job is endearing but irrational. We will likely do just as well or better with another astute manager

We existed, flourished even without Wenger we will do so without him

[Ollie the Optimist]

Keep us near the top. Euphemism for 4th. We are in complete agreement there, Where we differ is that Wenger isnt the only one who can do it with the 4th highest wage bill and 3rd highest pay packet in the PL. Your dedication to keep Wenger is the job is endearing but irrational. We will likely do just as well or better with another astute manager

We existed, flourished even without Wenger we will do so without him

don't think thats quite true. before Arsene, we would win stuff for 2/3 years, then nothing for long periods of time. I think from 1940 to 1990 we won something like 7 trophies. Arsene won that in 6 years. Never have we performed at such a consistently high level (by that i mean top four) before.
We had good periods in our history but they were only 2-4 years long. While not saying that without Arsene that will happen again, i think it is fair to say we have never hit such high levels before him.

[Globalgunner]

don't think thats quite true. before Arsene, we would win stuff for 2/3 years, then nothing for long periods of time. I think from 1940 to 1990 we won something like 7 trophies. Arsene won that in 6 years. Never have we performed at such a consistently high level (by that i mean top four) before.
We had good periods in our history but they were only 2-4 years long. While not saying that without Arsene that will happen again, i think it is fair to say we have never hit such high levels before him.

Apart from the top 4 trophy, what pray tell, have we won in the last 9 years

George Graham has won about the same number of trophies as Wenger, including a European trophy. So wheres the the beef

[Niall_Quinn]

Keep us near the top. Euphemism for 4th. We are in complete agreement there, Where we differ is that Wenger isnt the only one who can do it with the 4th highest wage bill and 3rd highest pay packet in the PL. Your dedication to keep Wenger is the job is endearing but irrational. We will likely do just as well or better with another astute manager

We existed, flourished even without Wenger we will do so without him

We? It almost sounds like you consider yourself an insider and Wenger an outsider.

Euphemism for £30-£40mill per annum over 17 years which is probably over half a billion quid. Handy.

We certainly did exist throughout the grey years before success came back to the club. First Graham then Wenger. Yes, I acknowledge we have had more than one manager, though I can't recall ever denying it.

But grey is where we were bound again without a major restructuring of the club. Job done. Sack the manager and call him a cunt on his way out. Classy, WE are.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Apart from the top 4 trophy, what pray tell, have we won in the last 9 years

George Graham has won about the same number of trophies as Wenger, including a European trophy. So wheres the the beef

but if you look at our league positions under him they were all over the place. won the league in 91, finished 10th the next season followed by 4th/12th/5th.

If you read my post you will see i talk about consistency. Under Arsene so far, the lowest we have finished is fourth. In 18 years. Never have we done that before. I think i saw a stat last week saying that before Arsene, in 92 seasons we had finished in the top four 20 something times.

[Niall_Quinn]

don't think thats quite true. before Arsene, we would win stuff for 2/3 years, then nothing for long periods of time. I think from 1940 to 1990 we won something like 7 trophies. Arsene won that in 6 years. Never have we performed at such a consistently high level (by that i mean top four) before.
We had good periods in our history but they were only 2-4 years long. While not saying that without Arsene that will happen again, i think it is fair to say we have never hit such high levels before him.

You underestimating how invigorating the long away trips on British Fail to Middlesbro to see a slaughter in a mud bath (before the match began), standing in the rain in an uncovered terrace and trying to hold the diarrhoea caused by the half time pie and then getting beaten up and having your laces nicked by police for no(ish) reason really were. Mind you, it only cost £3 (plus bail).

[Globalgunner]

We? It almost sounds like you consider yourself an insider and Wenger an outsider.

Euphemism for £30-£40mill per annum over 17 years which is probably over half a billion quid. Handy.

We certainly did exist throughout the grey years before success came back to the club. First Graham then Wenger. Yes, I acknowledge we have had more than one manager, though I can't recall ever denying it.

But grey is where we were bound again without a major restructuring of the club. Job done. Sack the manager and call him a cunt on his way out. Classy, WE are.

You're back to playing with words instead of making points again. Affecting oneness with the club is now an issue for people that you routinely accuse of hating the club.
Get through to this point. The club is not Wenger and Wenger is not the club. You need to climb that hill, then you can get back to being an Arsenal supporter.

Gotta go now

[Niall_Quinn]

You're back to playing with words instead of making points again. Affecting oneness with the club is now an issue for people that you routinely accuse of hating the club.
Get through to this point. The club is not Wenger and Wenger is the club. You need to climb that hill, then you can get back to being an Arsenal supporter.

Gotta go now

I made a half billion quid point to counter your non-point about the club commercials having nothing to do with Wenger.

You drifted off into "WE" territory so I commented on that too :shrug:

[Özim]

Or it's possible you genuinely can't see it, in which case your posts are understandable.

Wenger's remit, keep us near the top, keep us in the CL, keep the transfer budget to close on zero. Which helps, keep the stadium full, keeps the commercial deals coming in. All boxes ticked without even one slip-up. Now the next phase is go and build a top squad to compete with the very best in Europe. Or get Owen Coyle, I can't recall, it was one of those.

PS. Owen Coyle is mentioned because some people hilariously suggested him and it's just funny. He's mentioned for comedy value. I can say David Moyes if you like that better.

I don't think he's up to the next phase personally, we've taken some beatings this season but really what rounded it off for me was Saturday.

His 1000th game, again a team with a manager who had disrespected him, David Dein said AW doesn't like to get into conflicts and talk much he prefers to win matches (in an Interview before the match), what would you expect?

I'd expect a team coming out fired up, hungry, highly motivated and ready to prove their title credentials and prove everyone wrong, a team who start the match chasing every ball, closing down every player and forcing errors out of the opposition.

What we saw was a team with a lack of desire suffering a 6-0 humiliation and if we're honest not too bothered by it, a total embarrassment for everyone associated with the club. This tells me all I need to know.

[Power n Glory]

Im seriously embarrassed to call myself an Arsenal fan, if the majority of Arsenal fans are this way...

That's a shocker.

[Globalgunner]

The only analogy I have for some of these befuddled chaps. Is this. Your in a race with 19 other racecars. You have the 4th most powerful car and you end up 4th. Bloody hell!, that's some really brilliant driver you got there.......30 seconds behind the winner, but heck he did really well to sneak ahead of the 5th place car which was driven by a fucking Spud called Tim. Best keep the driver for next season as coming 5th would be a complete disaster

[Bumble]

I know people think Wenger should stay but at some point we need to move on. He is in his early 60s now. It might be good to transition now while United need a lot of renovating, if we wait too long they might be back up there, chavs ans city will still be spending and Liverpool could also be better with the money and regularity of CL football.

[Letters]

We will likely do just as well or better with another astute manager
Hmm. That's the bit I'm not so sure about. I think some people underestimate how difficult it is to stay up there every year, no-one else but Fergie has managed it for such a sustained period and while the lack of trophies is damning we have been working under some financial constraints at the same time as two clubs have the infinite money cheat on. Wenger could have done better but he could have done a lot worse too.

I don't know what to make of this season, I guess I'll tell you in May. I never thought we were title contenders this year despite our early season form, never quite felt we had enough and was just pleasantly surprised to be in the title race. We have had a lot of good results this year in games which last year we'd have drawn or lost. But the thumpings away at the top 3 have been bad (although I thought we played well against City, that would have been much closer with competent reffing) and our results and performances over the last couple of months have been patchy at best.

The Ozil signing, and it's clear we were bidding serious money for Suarez, does show a new ambition and financial muscle. If we win the FA Cup then that will hopefully give the squad more belief they can finish the job and win trophies. IMO that is a basis to build on. I don't believe that changing manager - and Wenger is far more than just a football coach at Arsenal - would help us push on. If we continue to collapse in the league and don't win the FA Cup then I'm not sure we have much to lose by changing manager. If we finish OK in the league and win the FA Cup though...

It's not as cut and dried as some are making out.

[saintnickle]

[QUOTE=Niall_Quinn;383092]Or it's possible you genuinely can't see it, in which case your posts are understandable.

Wenger's remit, keep us near the top, keep us in the CL, keep the transfer budget to close on zero. Which helps, keep the stadium full, keeps the commercial deals coming in. All boxes ticked without even one slip-up. Now the next phase is go and build a top squad to compete with the very best in Europe. Or get Owen Coyle, I can't recall, it was one of those.

I think you will find that most people who have had enough of wenger and want him out do not disagree with the money side of it and actually think he will eventually spend the money(in the areas needed).The problem lies with his tactics (or lack of them ) ,his ability to motivate the team (or lack of it,), his team selections and rotation of players and his choice of substitutions (and when to use them ie.68 min).To compete with the very best in europe you have to be spot on with all of these .So a question to you Niall Quinn,letters and Ollie the optimist is do you think A.He will spend the money needed to buy the players in the positions where we are short?? B.Improve tactically enough to compete with very best in europe?? If he does next season i will like most others hold my hand up and admit i was wrong about him ,but i fear groundhog day all over again ,but Wenger will be another 8 million pounds better off for it.

[AFC Leveller]

I don't think he's up to the next phase personally, we've taken some beatings this season but really what rounded it off for me was Saturday.

His 1000th game, again a team with a manager who had disrespected him, David Dein said AW doesn't like to get into conflicts and talk much he prefers to win matches (in an Interview before the match), what would you expect?

I'd expect a team coming out fired up, hungry, highly motivated and ready to prove their title credentials and prove everyone wrong, a team who start the match chasing every ball, closing down every player and forcing errors out of the opposition.

What we saw was a team with a lack of desire suffering a 6-0 humiliation and if we're honest not too bothered by it, a total embarrassment for everyone associated with the club. This tells me all I need to know.

Yeah thats what made me think prior to the game that we'd get a decent result because the game had so much riding on it and the players would make sure the manager got a nice present on his big day.

What happened was, for many fans, a reminder that these players and manager arent up to it and dont have what it takes for the big occasions.

[Letters]

A.He will spend the money needed to buy the players in the positions where we are short?? B.Improve tactically enough to compete with very best in europe?? If he does next season i will like most others hold my hand up and admit i was wrong about him ,but i fear groundhog day all over again ,but Wenger will be another 8 million pounds better off for it.

A - I bloody hope so. We have the money to compete more seriously now so he should. Last summer we signed Ozil and made a serious bid for Suarez. It's the most ambition we've shown for years so there's clearly intent there to step up a level in the transfar market.

B - He's never been a master tactician. Reading Bergkamp's autobiography right now and get the impression Wenger gives the players more freedom to express themselves as opposed to Graham's rigid defensive drilling. So no, I don't think he'll radically change there but he's had enough success before to suggest that with the right players he can do so again.

[I am invisible]

People who know me from AHFC days (and 606, if anyone still remembers that!) will tell you that I've generally been one of Wenger's biggest supporters over the years, and I still very much take the position that things are nowhere near as bad as we like to make out (in fact, all things considered, we're actually in tremendous shape as a club), and that Wenger isn't the total mug that we like to make him out to be? On the one hand you could argue that his inaction in the transfer market, and obvious weaknesses in certain areas (tactics, fitness, etc) is the reason why we continually fall short, but on the other, you could argue that he must be doing a lot of things remarkably well as a coach, because (even if you blame him for all of the following problems) we're still up in the CL places, and on for the FA Cup, in spite of having a thin squad who look dead on their feet, no decent strikers, no pace or power in the side, and no thought about tactics? He may cause a lot of problems for himself, but to then guide us through a season with all those problems, and still come out near the top, must take some doing?

That being said, the idea of change doesn't terrify me in any way - I think we're in a great place as a club right now, and I think whoever comes next will have every tool at his disposal to be a success. Like Bumble says, Wenger is 64 now and will be 65 in October, so this is something we're going to have to deal with before too much longer anyway - even if he'd won everything in sight for the past 9 years, and everyone was super-keen for him to stay, it wouldn't change the fact that he's fast approaching / already at retirement age, and we'd only really be buying ourselves a little bit of extra time to get prepared for what comes next. For me, it's all kind of inevitable, and I think how quickly it happens all hinges on who's available and when: if we have our eye on someone specific as a long-term appointment, but he's not available for another year (for example), then I can see Wenger staying on, and keeping us ticking over until we can get our man; but if that person suddenly becomes available now, then I wouldn't be adverse to seeing him step down, and for the change to happen pretty quickly.

Personally speaking (and this is pure fantasy football for the moment), I'd be sounding out Klopp - him and Arsenal would be a match made in heaven, IMO. We share an almost identical philosophy, we can give him the kind of long-term security he'd need, and (crucially) we now have the financial muscle for him to be able to keep his teams together, and actually augment them with whoever he wants. I think we'd represent an extremely interesting proposition for him, and visa versa...

[JonasTC]

What would people think about bringing in Henry, once Wenger leaves? Guardiola did pretty well for having never managed before. I think its underestimated how much it means to understand how a club is run from top to bottom, and having the respect of everybody who works/plays for the club, when it comes to managing.

[AFC Leveller]

People who know me from AHFC days (and 606, if anyone still remembers that!) will tell you that I've generally been one of Wenger's biggest supporters over the years, and I still very much take the position that things are nowhere near as bad as we like to make out (in fact, all things considered, we're actually in tremendous shape as a club), and that Wenger isn't the total mug that we like to make him out to be? On the one hand you could argue that his inaction in the transfer market, and obvious weaknesses in certain areas (tactics, fitness, etc) is the reason why we continually fall short, but on the other, you could argue that he must be doing a lot of things remarkably well as a coach, because (even if you blame him for all of the following problems) we're still up in the CL places, and on for the FA Cup, in spite of having a thin squad who look dead on their feet, no decent strikers, no pace or power in the side, and no thought about tactics? He may cause a lot of problems for himself, but to then guide us through a season with all those problems, and still come out near the top, must take some doing?

That being said, the idea of change doesn't terrify me in any way - I think we're in a great place as a club right now, and I think whoever comes next will have every tool at his disposal to be a success. Like Bumble says, Wenger is 64 now and will be 65 in October, so this is something we're going to have to deal with before too much longer anyway - even if he'd won everything in sight for the past 9 years, and everyone was super-keen for him to stay, it wouldn't change the fact that he's fast approaching / already at retirement age, and we'd only really be buying ourselves a little bit of extra time to get prepared for what comes next. For me, it's all kind of inevitable, and I think how quickly it happens all hinges on who's available and when: if we have our eye on someone specific as a long-term appointment, but he's not available for another year (for example), then I can see Wenger staying on, and keeping us ticking over until we can get our man; but if that person suddenly becomes available now, then I wouldn't be adverse to seeing him step down, and for the change to happen pretty quickly.

Personally speaking (and this is pure fantasy football for the moment), I'd be sounding out Klopp - him and Arsenal would be a match made in heaven, IMO. We share an almost identical philosophy, we can give him the kind of long-term security he'd need, and (crucially) we now have the financial muscle for him to be able to keep his teams together, and actually augment them with whoever he wants. I think we'd represent an extremely interesting proposition for him, and visa versa...

Klopp would be a bad choice because as soon as we lose a couple of games, the healdines wil be about "Jurgen Flopp".

Seriously though, he would be the perfect man for us. The way his teams play, the way they pres as a team and playing attacking aggressive football, he'd be a really good choice. Speaks perfect English too and would have a few German players to touch base with at first.

[Letters]

No! (EDIT: To Henry) :lol:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Not one person in this thread has convinced me that letting Wenger go is the best decision.

[I am invisible]

What would people think about bringing in Henry, once Wenger leaves? Guardiola did pretty well for having never managed before. I think its underestimated how much it means to understand how a club is run from top to bottom, and having the respect of everybody who works/plays for the club, when it comes to managing.

As a coach, somewhere at the club, then yes, but not as the head coach - I don't think he's ready for that. Guardiola had paid his dues coaching at various levels in Barca's academy before taking over the first team, so it's a slightly different situation - to my mind, Henry doesn't have any coaching experience yet?

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Henry, Sean Dyche, Owe Rosler :doh: :haha:

Forget it.

[I am invisible]

Klopp would be a bad choice because as soon as we lose a couple of games, the healdines wil be about "Jurgen Flopp".

Seriously though, he would be the perfect man for us. The way his teams play, the way they pres as a team and playing attacking aggressive football, he'd be a really good choice. Speaks perfect English too and would have a few German players to touch base with at first.

I just think he's got to be looking at the situation in Germany and thinking 'what's the point?' None of the other clubs are ever going to be able to compete with Bayern on a financial level, and when you try to compete by other means, as Dortmund have, Bayern just pick your team apart every summer! He's not gonna get the job at Bayern any time soon because of Guardiola, so that pretty much leaves him looking abroad if he wants to really build something and achieve sustained success - someone's going to get him at some point, so why not us? I think we've got a really interesting project to offer him here...

[Marc Overmars]

Henry. :lol:

Hell no. I'm not adverse to appointing someone who's relatively inexperienced because I think we have a great platform here for anyone to grow and develop into a top manager, however I certainly don't want someone essentially cutting their teeth with us because we need someone who's already sure of themselves and their philosophy.

Klopp is the man. Gazidis should be sounding him out, not necessarily for an immediate appointment but maybe in a year or 2. Get his turned now because whenever he decides to leave Dortmund we'd have to join the queue.

[I am invisible]

Henry. :lol:

Hell no. I'm not adverse to appointing someone who's relatively inexperienced because I think we have a great platform here for anyone to grow and develop into a top manager, however I certainly don't want someone essentially cutting their teeth with us because we need someone who's already sure of themselves and their philosophy.

Klopp is the man. Gazidis should be sounding him out, not necessarily for an immediate appointment but maybe in a year or 2. Get his turned now because whenever he decides to leave Dortmund we'd have to join the queue.
That's how I see it, and I half suspect that's why there's currently so much confusion about the new deal that's been offered to Wenger, how long it's for, and whether or not it's been signed? At this point, I think his legacy will be more important to Wenger than one last crack at the same old trophies, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was timing his retirement around when they can get his successor?

[Munchies]

Klopp/Martinez

[JonasTC]

As a coach, somewhere at the club, then yes, but not as the head coach - I don't think he's ready for that. Guardiola had paid his dues coaching at various levels in Barca's academy before taking over the first team, so it's a slightly different situation - to my mind, Henry doesn't have any coaching experience yet?

Nah, he only managed Barca's B team for one year before going on to the real deal.

Cant see why we couldnt do that with Henry, i believe he has a proper winning mindset, mentality and an inspiring personality to lead a top club like ours, he's been a captain here, so its not new to him to lead a team.

[Letters]

You might as well pick Adams. He was a real winner and inspiration on the pitch.





Can't manage for shit though.

[JonasTC]

Yea but didnt he have alot of personal problems? Im not sure his mind is in the right place to be managing a football club. Henry just seem like a more intelligent person to me, i didnt only pick him out because he's an Arsenal legend, we have a bunch of those.

[I am invisible]

Nah, he only managed Barca's B team for one year before going on to the real deal.

Cant see why we couldnt do that with Henry, i believe he has a proper winning mindset, mentality and an inspiring personality to lead a top club like ours, he's been a captain here, so its not new to him to lead a team.
It's not impossible - just highly improbable. I mean, if that is the case with Guardiola, then it would very much make him the exception rather than the rule. I'm also not sure it's really necessary for us to take a punt like then when there's so many exciting, relatively young coaches around at the moment who we could pick from (not to mention the older, more proven options)?

Having said that, I would love to see guys like Henry, Bergkamp and Pires around the club again in some capacity! Would do the players some good to see some winners and living legends around the place...

[AFC Leveller]

What would people think about bringing in Henry, once Wenger leaves? Guardiola did pretty well for having never managed before. I think its underestimated how much it means to understand how a club is run from top to bottom, and having the respect of everybody who works/plays for the club, when it comes to managing.

No.

[Letters]

His personal problems are probably a factor but being a great player or an Arsenal legend does not mean you have the ability to manage a top club.

[Power n Glory]

A - I bloody hope so. We have the money to compete more seriously now so he should. Last summer we signed Ozil and made a serious bid for Suarez. It's the most ambition we've shown for years so there's clearly intent there to step up a level in the transfar market.

B - He's never been a master tactician. Reading Bergkamp's autobiography right now and get the impression Wenger gives the players more freedom to express themselves as opposed to Graham's rigid defensive drilling. So no, I don't think he'll radically change there but he's had enough success before to suggest that with the right players he can do so again.

It's worth giving these a read.

http://performance.fourfourtwo.com/technique/mikel-arteta-pass-your-opponents-off-the-park

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/nigel-winterburn-on-arsne-wenger-footballs-on-the-first-day-of-preseasonit-was-unheard-of-here-9208996.html



http://www.soccerissue.com/2013/01/12/wenger-is-a-great-boss-but-a-mediocre-coach/

This one sums it up for me. This is the heart of the issue and why I feel we'll always be behind and why we won't get that response from the players we're looking for. They touched on it during a Talksport session with Parlour and Winterburn.


Wenger is a Great Boss but a Mediocre Coach
Arsenal would be wise to give Wenger the sporting director role and give the reigns to a younger, more up-to-date coach

by Ouriel Daskal

I happened to speak recently with a relatively successful young manager, one who spends a lot of time in education programs at bigger clubs. He was in Italy, Spain, Germany, England and picked the brain of many young and older managers. He told me that he wasn’t particularly impressed with Arsène Wenger’s methods, saying that he rarely gives instructions to his players.

Wenger often talks about how he doesn’t like to give orders, and prefers instead to put the players in environments that are intended to make them come to conclusions themselves (Unlike Johan Cruyff and Pep Guardiola, who used to stop training all the time and guide their players).

Wenger’s favorite training-drill is having his players play five-a-side without interrupting. Wenger even explained: “Five-a-side confronts the player with constant decision-making”, he told FourFourTwo. “When you receive the ball, you are faced with dozens of options. Your brain acts like a computer: It realizes it has been faced with this situation before and tries to come up with the right answer.”

Basically, his main goal in training is developing a player’s instinct and thought process. He wants his guys to think for themselves, and reach a conclusion about what would be the best thing to do next.

In that sense, he is like a great guru or a Sensei – football’s Mr. Miyagi. However, this is why a lot of newcomers need a longer period of time to settle in to Arsenal’s style of play. Wenger’s style of coaching is the reason why smarter players, like Santi Cazorla for example, instantly fit in. On the other hand, that’s the main reason why players who may be not-so-smart don’t always appear to know what their next move is, even after several years with the club. Don’t believe me? Just look at Gervinho or Theo Walcott.

During Arsenal’s best seasons with Wenger, the squad was filled with smart, skilled players that (mostly) had a lot of experience. However, during the past few seasons, Wenger did not purchase high-profile, expensive players. His reasons may be financial or ideological, but the bottom line is that he put his focus on players who had a “potential to be great”, and the club failed to win.

Since 2005 Arsenal didn’t win a major title, and was mostly irrelevant in domestic and European competition. That’s despite the fact that The Gunners are one of the top 6 clubs in the world in terms of financial income. During that time, Wenger chose to field a squad filled with “potential stars” – players who aren’t world-class, but have the potential to reach that level.

The more experienced stars were no longer flocking to Arsenal like they used to, choosing instead to join Chelsea, Manchester City and other high-profile clubs. The players that were developed in Arsenal’s training grounds went on to receive bigger paychecks from other clubs, when they realised that Arsenal just couldn’t be a winner with Wenger running the show*.

* Cesc Fabregas: “At times at Arsenal, there was a feeling of: ‘if we win, great. If not, well, we’re very young… No pasa nada’ (everything’s fine)”

Wenger’s liberal style of coaching led to the acceleration of a process that Austrian-American economist Joseph Schumpeter called “creative destruction”. This theory describes the way in which capitalist economic development arises out of the destruction of some prior economic order, mainly due to innovation and creativity.

For example, cassette-tape players were replaced by CD players. MP3 players deemed the CD players obsolete, only to be replaced by smartphones. Using this example, Arsenal is still a Walkman, while Manchester City and Chelsea are iPods. In short, Arsenal used to be innovative.

Wenger’s Arsenal were seen as the creative, rising super-power in the late 90′s and early 2000′s, but the change in England’s financial climate made it difficult for them to maintain their best players. The fact that scouting is a lot easier now than it used to be, means that
Arsenal lost some of its edge over the smaller clubs in the Premier League, and that makes finding cheap top-level players a lot harder than it was back then.

Take Freddie Ljungberg for example: Back then, Arsenal was able to sign him for next to nothing, simply because Wenger was pretty much the only one to send scouts to Sweden. Today, a player in his standards would probably have been snagged by Everton or Swansea.

Wenger used to have some of the best players in the world in his squad. These players would usually just do the right thing on instinct alone, and Wenger’s innovative style of coaching gave them the freedom to do just that. These days, Arsenal cannot afford the best players in the world and Wenger is no longer an innovator. Innovation could be seen in different places. For example, look at Borussia Dortmund, the Bundesliga champions, who are now looking like a force to be reckoned with in the Champions League despite having a budget similar to Sunderland or Fulham.

Wenger said that “sometimes people try and destroy your work”, after losing key players, ones that he nurtured and developed, to clubs with bigger pockets. The fact is that in today’s world, nobody will defend you if someone creates a better product than you. Just ask Sony – the public left their music players for dead in favor of Apple’s sleek products.

Football is no different.

Arsenal can no longer make bargain deals to bring top players (how much do you think Thierry Henry would have cost today?), and they have to rely on their youngsters and “stars” who are not good enough. They may not cost as much, but they need much more time to get to know the system. This is why Wenger always says that his team has “great potential”, and never says that they’re a great team.

Arsenal’s board of directors claims that when Financial Fair Play takes effect, they will be able to compete for the services of the world’s best players. However, one must wonder whether the great players would really want to join a club that has seen its reputation eroded by years of non-competitiveness.

Enter: Mourinho

Arsène Wenger’s dominance came to a halt when José Mourinho invaded Britain. His new concept of coaching, along with Roman Abramovich’s bank account, created a new super-power in Chelsea. They leapfrogged over Arsenal, and inspired a new generation of managers.

José Mourinho says that “the biggest lie in football” is the notion that players need time to gel. After witnessing some of his training sessions and attending one of his lectures, it’s plain to see that his method of training is completely different to that of Wenger – he tells his players exactly what to do and how to do it.

The Special One uses a method developed by Vitor Frade, a professor in Porto’s sports university. This method is called “tactical periodization”, and it claims that the best way to train players and fulfill their potential is to teach the player how to react to every situation.

The method is based around the 4 different moments in football: “offensive organization”, “defensive organization”, “transition from offense to defence” and “transition from defense to offense”. It also takes the 4 key physical elements into account – players
should be trained physically, technically, tactically and psychologically.

The method aims to train every player how to react instinctively to every possible situation in football. According to this method, a good player is one that makes the best possible decision in every scenario that happens during the game. Every reaction should take tactics into account, while also taking the opponent’s abilities into consideration.

Every game Mourinho prepares his players according to these questions:

A. What are we doing when we have the ball against X?
B. What are we doing when we don’t have the ball against X?
C. What are we doing when the ball is in transition from defence to attack against X?
D. What are we doing when the ball is in transition from attack to defence against X?

Unlike Wenger, Mourinho puts his players into ever-changing situations in training so they identify the changes and learn how to react. As Joe Cole of Chelsea said, “You learn things in every one of his training sessions and don’t even know it!”.

His directions during training may vary depending on the next opponent, but the questions stay the same. Every player also receives a DVD of the opponent he is most likely to face during the game. By the way – Wenger rarely addresses his next opponent during
training.

Mourinho’s method is mechanical, intricate and difficult to properly exercise. He asks his players to fully focus on winning 24/7. That’s maybe the reason why he never lasts too long at the same club – It’s too intensive. While Wenger is much more easy-going and relaxed, Mourinho’s method is proven to be more effective in the last decade, and that’s why many managers decided to use it, at least partially.

The method may also be one of the reasons why Mourinho usually prefers to work with established players rather than youngsters.

Arsène Wenger is definitely not the same kind of coach Mourinho is. Wenger’s vision and ability to nurture young talent is probably second to none in the game. His style of coaching, however, is probably no longer suitable for a high-profile team. Players, especially those who grew up in academies, need to be told what to do and how to do it. They also need to be instructed on where to combine, use their creativity and bring their skill into effect. Especially during games – when they seem to be stuck with ideas from the training ground and yearn for a new idea from their coach.

Celebrity dog trainer Cesar Millan always says that ”everybody needs an Alpha Dog”. Professional footballers also need an alpha dog – not a guru, who lets them reach far-fetching solutions and conclusions by themselves.

According to the French media, Wenger recently received an offer from PSG to become its sporting director. This might be the perfect role for him. Arsenal would be wise to give him this exact role and give the reigns to a younger, more up-to-date coach.

[Niall_Quinn]

A.He will spend the money needed to buy the players in the positions where we are short?? B.Improve tactically enough to compete with very best in europe??

A: Yes, he'll buy quality in key positions. No, I doubt he can get it all done in one transfer window. I hope for the striker role he imports proven quality and dispenses with any idea of potential. This is what he tried to do with Suarez and we need to identify a target of the same stature. We'll need to keep our nerve as the aimless media links us with all sorts of shit options. I actually think we need two strikers.

Sagna looks determined to go if he doesn't get his ransom. So replacing him, again with direct experience and quality, will be important. We also need a genuine world class talent in the middle, that's where I think we might struggle landing the right player. Is that Bender? Not sure about that.

I'd also like to see us make a Walcott/ Chamberlain type signing. A top prospect sought by our rivals with us beating them to the signature. This would be a good statement of intent. But probably no because we've already spent £120mill on the players above.

That's what I think we'll TRY spend, around £120mill. Some of it covered by players going the other way and saved wages on wasters like Bendtner. The players will have to say yes, the agents will have to be satisfied with their cut, the clubs will have to say yes, we'll have to deal with dickheads like Levy and Mourinho.

Ideally we need to get our deals done as early as possible. That will be very difficult considering there's a world cup. This window will not be easy at all - some say, Oh why doesn't he just sign a world class player? They forget about all the other shit that goes along with it. The entourage, the hangers-on that need some pie, the sponsorship deals, the rights, the guarantees. However, this is the landscape and the next window will demonstrate if this manager and the executives at the club are up to the task. If they are not, when the financial restrictions have been removed, then there will be legitimate grounds to seek alternatives.

B: I believe Wenger's tactics have always been linked to the quality and character of his players. When you have Bergkamp, Adams, Henry, Pires, Gilberto, Vieria and think of the others - all professionals, all tough winners. These players help any manager, the team becomes greater than the sum of the parts. All of these players arrived when wage bills were in the real world, and transfer fees bar the odd lunacy at clubs like Madrid. Our current squad is one or two steps down from previous teams, not just in terms of quality but also character. We have good players, but not great players. And here is where I'd fault Wenger (in my non-professional opinion) - he has too much faith in lesser players that don't warrant it and fail to earn it when given the chance.

Will he change? I don't think so. But I believe the effect of bringing real winners and players of character into the squad will have a profound effect. How could it not? That said I don't think we'll see a change overnight, but then again you aren't going to see such a change with a new manager either. There have been stirrings of success this season, hints. The Kos Merts partnership is an example. Something to build on.

But a few players need a good slap too. Cazorla, Giroud, Podolski and Ozil. Whatever these players were asked to do before they came to the PL they must understand this is a different league and a different game. They need to become familiar with the less glamorous nature of this league and get stuck into the dirty work that is part and parcel of British football. Wenger could benefit by bringing in some proper help on the training ground and I desperately hope he does this. Somebody who can kick arse and compliment Wenger's technical ideas with some graft. That's where Kroenke can play a part - silent stan. Can he afford to be silent if he wants success on the pitch as well as at the bank?

I think the 1,000th game debacle might actually help in the long run if it allows Wenger to see that giving faith doesn't mean it will be returned and some of these players are not at the level he believes or wants them to be. This is a team we're trying to build here. That's how Ferguson did it, a strong man to build a strong team. The limp wristed Moyes could not repeat the act. Wenger needs to straighten up his own wrists, get some fucker in, get some players with backbone in and knit the think together. He's done it before, he can do it again.

I think people underestimate what a loss it is when you want to be at the top of the game but can't compete for the very best players. Now we can compete, this is the culmination of the whole project and if over the next two seasons we don't see a team of winners develop on the pitch then we mark that down as a failure because it cannot be disputed.

But I actually think we're going to see a glorious success because even though we don't have some things right at the club there are a lot of things that are spot on. For me the future looks very bright.

[JonasTC]

:gp:

[Dein-machine]

Not one person in this thread has convinced me that letting Wenger go is the best decision.

The worrying thing is that you need convincing - another year scrapping for 4th, another year knocked out in last 16 of the CL & another year of shitting ourselves in games against the big boys - you obviously think that's acceptable 10 years after the promise of competing with Europe's best by moving to the Emirates. If you're a shareholder, then I apologise as I can understand why you don't see a need for change - no need to put your dividend in doubt.

[saintnickle]

A: Yes, he'll buy quality in key positions. No, I doubt he can get it all done in one transfer window. I hope for the striker role he imports proven quality and dispenses with any idea of potential. This is what he tried to do with Suarez and we need to identify a target of the same stature. We'll need to keep our nerve as the aimless media links us with all sorts of shit options. I actually think we need two strikers.

Sagna looks determined to go if he doesn't get his ransom. So replacing him, again with direct experience and quality, will be important. We also need a genuine world class talent in the middle, that's where I think we might struggle landing the right player. Is that Bender? Not sure about that.

I'd also like to see us make a Walcott/ Chamberlain type signing. A top prospect sought by our rivals with us beating them to the signature. This would be a good statement of intent. But probably no because we've already spent £120mill on the players above.

That's what I think we'll TRY spend, around £120mill. Some of it covered by players going the other way and saved wages on wasters like Bendtner. The players will have to say yes, the agents will have to be satisfied with their cut, the clubs will have to say yes, we'll have to deal with dickheads like Levy and Mourinho.

Ideally we need to get our deals done as early as possible. That will be very difficult considering there's a world cup. This window will not be easy at all - some say, Oh why doesn't he just sign a world class player? They forget about all the other shit that goes along with it. The entourage, the hangers-on that need some pie, the sponsorship deals, the rights, the guarantees. However, this is the landscape and the next window will demonstrate if this manager and the executives at the club are up to the task. If they are not, when the financial restrictions have been removed, then there will be legitimate grounds to seek alternatives.

B: I believe Wenger's tactics have always been linked to the quality and character of his players. When you have Bergkamp, Adams, Henry, Pires, Gilberto, Vieria and think of the others - all professionals, all tough winners. These players help any manager, the team becomes greater than the sum of the parts. All of these players arrived when wage bills were in the real world, and transfer fees bar the odd lunacy at clubs like Madrid. Our current squad is one or two steps down from previous teams, not just in terms of quality but also character. We have good players, but not great players. And here is where I'd fault Wenger (in my non-professional opinion) - he has too much faith in lesser players that don't warrant it and fail to earn it when given the chance.

Will he change? I don't think so. But I believe the effect of bringing real winners and players of character into the squad will have a profound effect. How could it not? That said I don't think we'll see a change overnight, but then again you aren't going to see such a change with a new manager either. There have been stirrings of success this season, hints. The Kos Merts partnership is an example. Something to build on.

But a few players need a good slap too. Cazorla, Giroud, Podolski and Ozil. Whatever these players were asked to do before they came to the PL they must understand this is a different league and a different game. They need to become familiar with the less glamorous nature of this league and get stuck into the dirty work that is part and parcel of British football. Wenger could benefit by bringing in some proper help on the training ground and I desperately hope he does this. Somebody who can kick arse and compliment Wenger's technical ideas with some graft. That's where Kroenke can play a part - silent stan. Can he afford to be silent if he wants success on the pitch as well as at the bank?

I think the 1,000th game debacle might actually help in the long run if it allows Wenger to see that giving faith doesn't mean it will be returned and some of these players are not at the level he believes or wants them to be. This is a team we're trying to build here. That's how Ferguson did it, a strong man to build a strong team. The limp wristed Moyes could not repeat the act. Wenger needs to straighten up his own wrists, get some fucker in, get some players with backbone in and knit the think together. He's done it before, he can do it again.

I think people underestimate what a loss it is when you want to be at the top of the game but can't compete for the very best players. Now we can compete, this is the culmination of the whole project and if over the next two seasons we don't see a team of winners develop on the pitch then we mark that down as a failure because it cannot be disputed.

But I actually think we're going to see a glorious success because even though we don't have some things right at the club there are a lot of things that are spot on. For me the future looks very bright.


For a moment there i thought you had put "well try and spend 120 million."Surely you put the 1 in by accident.

[Munchies]

The worrying thing is that you need convincing - another year scrapping for 4th, another year knocked out in last 16 of the CL & another year of shitting ourselves in games against the big boys - you obviously think that's acceptable 10 years after the promise of competing with Europe's best by moving to the Emirates. If you're a shareholder, then I apologise as I can understand why you don't see a need for change - no need to put your dividend in doubt.

:gp:

I thought this was when we were meant to push on?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dK72AcPEpk

'It's happened again' to us too :haha: ffs. I genuinely thought we'd do something after that.

[fakeyank]

The worrying thing is that you need convincing - another year scrapping for 4th, another year knocked out in last 16 of the CL & another year of shitting ourselves in games against the big boys - you obviously think that's acceptable 10 years after the promise of competing with Europe's best by moving to the Emirates. If you're a shareholder, then I apologise as I can understand why you don't see a need for change - no need to put your dividend in doubt.

:gp:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

The worrying thing is that you need convincing - another year scrapping for 4th, another year knocked out in last 16 of the CL & another year of shitting ourselves in games against the big boys - you obviously think that's acceptable 10 years after the promise of competing with Europe's best by moving to the Emirates. If you're a shareholder, then I apologise as I can understand why you don't see a need for change - no need to put your dividend in doubt.

I'd only want an upgrade on Wenger and managers like Martinez/Low aren't an upgrade. Klopp, Ancelotti or Pep would be an upgrade but none of them are available until 2016ish (when their contracts run out or they'll probs get bored of their current clubs). Coincidentally, Wenger's new deal would end then too, which would mean we could give it a real go to get one of them in.

Going for someone like Martinez/Low now? Martinez would need a season to adjust to our squad which would mean we'd probably slip down to 6th-7th next season, then if we're lucky we'd put a title challenge together the following year (IF we're lucky). What's the point? We might as well keep Wenger for 2 more years, at least with him we know we have top 4 in the bag. Too much risk for too little reward IMO.

I can take 2 more years of mediocrity if it means we get an elite manager in 2016. Replacing him with an average/slightly above average manager now? Nah.

[Power n Glory]

http://arseblog.com/2014/03/ramsey-kallstrom-nyc-arsecast-310/

I 'good' Podcast from Arsecast addressing many of the issues discussed on here this week. The FA Cup games and end of season need to hurry up!

[Dein-machine]

Bring in Zidane with Henry assisting. Zidane has been learning his coaching skills at Madrid but understand & appreciates good football. We know he'll go back to Madrid if he proves himself but by then Henry can step in. These two will attract quality players & will not be scared to pay that bit extra that makes the difference. Nothing to suggest these two couldn't turn us into a far better team over the next few years, far better than Wenger has been able to achieve in that period - maybe defensively we are stronger but our attacking options are a joke for a supposed "top european team" - cannot afford Wenger in charge during next transfer window.

[Niall_Quinn]

Bringing in trial managers to see if they are any good at the top level? That's even worse than signing players on potential when we need real experience, isn't it? We can hardly afford a well intentioned disaster over the next couple of seasons. If Wenger goes then it will have to be a top coach who has done the business at the very top level who replaces him, anything else would be potentially chucking away the footholds we have suffered to gain.

[Letters]

Nothing to suggest these two couldn't turn us into a far better team over the next few years, far better than Wenger has been able to achieve in that period
Apart from a complete lack of track record at managing at any level, let alone the top level, you're right.

[Munchies]

Piers Morgan had it right all along

https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/286596389553700865

[bignev]

Apart from a complete lack of track record at managing at any level, let alone the top level, you're right.

+1million.

I'm sorry Dein-machine but that is just idiotic.

[Power n Glory]

Henry and Zizi....that's just crazy talk.

[Niall_Quinn]

Piers Morgan had it right all along

https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/286596389553700865

He's just an attention seeker who gets his arse kicked a thousand times more than Wenger when he comes up against competent opposition. He was run out of America for being too dumb :haha: now we have to suffer him back here.

[Özim]

I see Wenger is somewhat irritated by Scholes comments:


"People who have managed zero games have opinions. We have to accept that," said Wenger, whose side face third-placed Manchester City on Saturday.

"If six points is a 'million miles away', I don't know what the translation of a mile into a point is."

Although we are six points behind if Man City win their games in hand it's nine, we've been battered by all the top teams which shows how far behind we are in reality, it's also Scholes opinion (he said in his eyes we were) and he's entitled to think what he likes, surprise Wenger seems irritated by this.

Wengers comments about him have zero games in management is irrelevant you don't have to manage to spot the obvious.


Wenger also dismissed the ex-England international's opinion that Gunners midfielder Jack Wilshere, 22, has "not improved since he was 17".

"Jack has been handicapped by many injuries, but once he is back and playing consistently he will show everybody that [Scholes] is wrong about that," said the Frenchman.

"He is an exceptional player - and Scholes knows that."

Again I have to say Wilshere hasn't improved, IMO he's regressed, what's more his dedication and attitude stinks, signs of a guy who's getting too big for his boots before he's achieved anything.

Won't go down well, but I'm personally sick of Wenger state of denial, 9 years we've had of this and the guy is still in fantasy land, he still thinks we can win the title apparently, not a cats chance in hell I'm afraid, not after those beatings.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26785162

[Ollie the Optimist]

you say we have been battered by all the top teams, however we have only been battered in the away games. When they have come to the emirates, (bar city so i expect this to change tomorrow) we haven't lost. So what this proves against the big teams is that home form tends to get the better result i guess so i don't think we are a million miles away as scholes says.

also with his comments about winning the league, he's hardly said anything stupid. he says tomorrow is our last chance to stay in the race but also that city/chelsea/liverpool are the favourites

[The Emirates Gallactico]

It obviously wasn't a literal comment by Scholes and Wenger shouldn't assume it as such and attack that strawman. He's basically saying we're a long way off, which whilst personally I feel is too harsh is a valid comment. Based some of the evidence seen there are some deep flaws in Wenger's coaching, management and player acquisition which are holding us back and will continue to hold us back unless they are rectified.

Also, he's quite right about Jack. Most people on here were already saying it and I for one am quite glad that his questionable form is getting some notice in the press so it forces and inspires him to work a lot harder to be the player we all expect him to be and not be content with his current showings.

[Özim]

you say we have been battered by all the top teams, however we have only been battered in the away games. When they have come to the emirates, (bar city so i expect this to change tomorrow) we haven't lost. So what this proves against the big teams is that home form tends to get the better result i guess so i don't think we are a million miles away as scholes says.

also with his comments about winning the league, he's hardly said anything stupid. he says tomorrow is our last chance to stay in the race but also that city/chelsea/liverpool are the favourites

At the Emirates we've done OK but you'd expect that at home (though we haven't won many against the better sides either), but it doesn't change those cricket scores we've experienced, I think Scholes is saying we're not close to them and we're not, just look at our record against the top 4 sides in recent years, you'd expect a side close to be able to beat some of them, but we seem to very rarely manage it.

I'm just not convinced we're that close, we had a healthy lead in December and then had a tough run of games and dropped a fair few points, happened again in Feb/March and it was the same story, we had a big opportunity this season with all the changes at other clubs and the start we had.

As for the title, it's gone, it's just not going to happen, losing 6-0 to Chelsea showed that, how many Champions do you know that get tonked three times in one season, his comments about the results seem to indicate he's doesn't accept the failings of his team and just things it's down to luck, it's not bad luck after 9 years of pretty much the same thing.

What I want is for him to accept responsibility and just say we haven't been good enough and we need changes, because those are the facts, especially after those embarrassing results, he brushes them off as if they were just a bad day at the office and nothing to worry about instead.

[Marc Overmars]

Catty comments from Wenget.

I'd suggest someone who has played under the greatest manager of all time and been a part of plenty of successful sides knows what he's talking about.

[Özim]

I watched Scholes comments, he was just giving his opinion, from a football fan point of view, nothing malicious about it and he had a point. Fans expect better than we've had in the last 9 years, as he said we're in there looking for for a few weeks getting a sniff of success and then it all falls apart, new season starts and it's the same all over again.

Would be refreshing to hear Wenger accept it's not good enough for once, particularly after those thrashings which should be totally unacceptable for any club of our stature.

[GP]

Yeah but he's ginger.

[Niall_Quinn]

Scholes is a pundit now so therefore an ex-professional in every sense. The comments about Wilshere were pure shit. I know some will leap to the defence of the Utd guy but Scholes knows how it is and how he's just helped heap more shit on a player struggling with injury. Scholes is in big danger of destroying what was previously an untarnished record as one of the model pros in the game. Shame.

[Niall_Quinn]

Also don't forget who is driving this:
http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a433/qwerty12343/wenger-scholes_zps928d565d.png

Shut it Scholes? Is that what Wenger said? I didn't think so. The media can't be trusted to report anything, they lie as a matter of routine.

[Özim]

Scholes is a pundit now so therefore an ex-professional in every sense. The comments about Wilshere were pure shit. I know some will leap to the defence of the Utd guy but Scholes knows how it is and how he's just helped heap more shit on a player struggling with injury. Scholes is in big danger of destroying what was previously an untarnished record as one of the model pros in the game. Shame.

Don't agree, Wilshere has been largely sh*t recently, he seemed a better player when he first broke through, he seems to think he's some sort of big shot now and his application and behaviour isn't exactly great, Scholes was spot on.

Just because he came through the youth ranks it doesn't save him from criticism, his passing, tackling, positioning and end product are all disappointing, he has the odd good game but that's not enough. Injury or no injury he should be better than he is if he really is the talent some think

[Özim]

Also don't forget who is driving this:
http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a433/qwerty12343/wenger-scholes_zps928d565d.png

Shut it Scholes? Is that what Wenger said? I didn't think so. The media can't be trusted to report anything, they lie as a matter of routine.

He didn't say shut it, but saying "people who have managed zero games" he's effectively saying WTF does he know, as if being a manager is the only way you can judge a team.

From what Wenger says he disproves this, he's a poor judge of teams because he thinks his team is better than it is.

[Ollie the Optimist]

He didn't say shut it, but saying "people who have managed zero games" he's effectively saying WTF does he know, as if being a manager is the only way you can judge a team.

From what Wenger says he disproves this, he's a poor judge of teams because he thinks his team is better than it is.

Im not quite sure that his comment about managed zero games is actually at Scholes but more at half the journalists on twitter and probably half the cry babies on twitter.

[Özim]

Im not quite sure that his comment about managed zero games is actually at Scholes but more at half the journalists on twitter and probably half the cry babies on twitter.

It's at Scholes because he also says


"If six points is a 'million miles away', I don't know what the translation of a mile into a point is."

Scholes made the million miles away comment after the game the other day.

[Ollie the Optimist]

It's at Scholes because he also says



Scholes made the million miles away comment after the game the other day.

I know what Scholes said but Arsene also said this. full quote for the zero games
"Everybody has opinions, people who have managed zero games have opinions and we have to accept that. We are in a society where there are thousands of opinions every day, and some go for you and some go against you. You have to live with that.

Obviously he has made his comments against scholes but its clear it wasn't all aimed at scholes. when you get twats like neil ashton saying give solado time to settle after calling ozil a flop etc, i think Arsene was aiming that last bit at them

[Özim]

I know what Scholes said but Arsene also said this. full quote for the zero games

Obviously he has made his comments against scholes but its clear it wasn't all aimed at scholes. when you get twats like neil ashton saying give solado time to settle after calling ozil a flop etc, i think Arsene was aiming that last bit at them

Maybe that's true, but two parts are clearly responses at Scholes comments from the other day, he was seemingly irked by these even though they were valid points to be fair.

Wenger doesn't seem to want to accept that his team aren't good enough, this is ultimately what bugs me the most, it's denial like this that just makes me thinks he's just not the man for the job, if he doesn't acknowledge our shortcomings what is there for him to fix, does he just think another year of experience will make all the difference as he has so often said in the past?

[Munchies]

@johncrossmirror

Wenger says #afc only "really beaten" once this season.


Wenger said: “The only game for me where we were really beaten was at Liverpool. The rest is a bit more coincidence going negatively together.

“At Chelsea the game was over after ten minutes. At Liverpool were were outplayed on the day and there’s not a lot to say.

“One week later we beat Liverpool (in the FA Cup) and no-one says there is a gap there between the two teams.

“You have to accept that it is not always as simple as that in the game. You play ten times the same team and every time it’s a different game.”

u wot m8 :haha:

[Özim]

@johncrossmirror

Wenger says #afc only "really beaten" once this season.



u wot m8 :haha:

If this is true this really sums it up, he just doesn't accept we got beaten like this due to issues with the team/squad, it's just circumstances and bad luck.

How many top teams get thrashed three times in the space of a season and are considered as good or even close to the top teams?

[Ollie the Optimist]

Maybe that's true, but two parts are clearly responses at Scholes comments from the other day, he was seemingly irked by these even though they were valid points to be fair.

Wenger doesn't seem to want to accept that his team aren't good enough, this is ultimately what bugs me the most, it's denial like this that just makes me thinks he's just not the man for the job, if he doesn't acknowledge our shortcomings what is there for him to fix, does he just think another year of experience will make all the difference as he has so often said in the past?

Fair point in terms of the denial and therefore unlikely to fix things but to counter that he did make moves to sign a DM and top striker in the summer. Clearly interested in improving that area although interest and actually doing it are two vey different things but your point about another year experience i do think would have been valid this year if our team had stayed fit. You saw how good we were in the first half of the season, while we might not have won the league, a season for Ozil to adjust with ramsey, jack, gibbs, szcesney, cazorla etc etc all learning with Ozil and then being ready next season would have been great experience but injuries have robbed us of that chance. Now there is a completely different argument about injuries etc and treatment for it but thats hardly something you can lay at Arsene's door but more medical staff door.

Now if you take the team that played up until the Napoli game in decemeber. Some of the football played by that team was outstanding, the napoli home, or norwich game were brilliant. That team had a solid defence, strong midfield but weak striker. There isn't actually much you would say to improve that team (starting eleven) bar a striker and DM. Then we come to the bench and squad and we need to strengthen there too but otherwise that team with everyone fit and the bench is pretty strong. Strong enough to lead for most of the season until that point. Then injuries happened. Now while our tactics in big games recently have been lacking and the city game too was awful, and there is an now a stronger argument for Arsene to retire rather then renew, his point about not having much to fix (or your point) could actually be seen as true when you ignore injuries.

Let say, a fully fit squad.

starting team is: Szcesney, Sagna, BFG, Kos, Gibbs, Arteta, Ramsey, Cazorla, Ozil, Theo, Giroud
subs: Fabianski, Monreal, Vermaelen, Flamini, Podolski, Ox, Diaby

then you have other players like: Gnabry, Jenkinson, Rosicky, Sanogo, Bendtner, Kallstrom.

Now we can debate all we like about which players would start etc but lets leave that alone for the moment. That is our fully fit squad with no injuries. The starting team is pretty strong. Imagine if you took out Giroud and Arteta and replaced with Bender and Suarez for example. Suddenly that team looks incredibly different. The bench then looks stronger with Giroud and Arteta on it while the squad looks stronger with Podolski and Flamini in it. There are other players who would also stregthen the starting team too but those two named are just examples based on last summers interest.

Now the next thing would be to strengthen the squad with a few decent 10/12 million pound signings. Obviously some players i have named above will be leaving like Fabianksi, Bendtner etc so they need to be replaced as well. So if we were to do that, as well as get in two big players (striker and DM) we actually have a very very strong starting team, bench and squad.

One problem we have though, is we can't actually ever play our full strength side as we always have injuries, that needs to be looked at and sorted ASAP but lets ignore injuries for this debate as its not actually in Arsene's control, more the medical teams control. So with that squad, added with additions in the summer, in terms of personal he doesn't need to fix much IMO, and the reason i think he will fix it is because he tried last summer and with more money this summer, there really is no excuse. So its tactics that need to be changed and fixed next after sorting out personal, and lets face it, its only really tactics in big matches against the big teams (hopefully big matches like semi finals v wigan don't come into this) that need to be changed and fixed. I think in the majority of matches this season, Arsene has got his tactics right and thats why we led for so long this season but when we come up against the big teams, we failed in the away matches, although the home matches weren't brilliant either but so far (touch wood) unbeaten in the big games at home but the problem is its been that way for too long. I think perhaps it is right for Arsene to retire this season and i hope to god he goes out with the cup, he deserves that but for the new man, who will probably be quite similar to Arsene in style of play etc, he doesn't have much to fix. Even if Arsene stays, he doesn't have much to fix with a fully fit squad bar the mental barriers and tactics in the big games. The problem is when it goes wrong with us, it goes wrong big time and its why its time for change but i don't think Arsene is blind or deluded when inferring there isn't much to fix, I don't think there is either but the chances of us having a fully fit squad for the season is unlikely and the chance of that happening coupled with mid season explosion again is very high under Arsene and thats why perhaps its best he leaves at the end of the season.

[Niall_Quinn]

Simple option for everyone, stand behind the Utd cunt with the big mouth or stand behind our manager and our team. Really, really, simple option.

To be apologising for the media literally making shit up, all in an effort to pile more on Wenger - it's sad. Any old shit as long as it is anti-Wenger. Big game coming up tomorrow and look at the bitches on here moaning and whinging. Apparently Wenger doesn't motive the team.

Well it's a good job we don't let the moaning cocksuckers on here anywhere near the team then isn't it :lol:

[Özim]

Stand behind a manager I don't believe in anymore after 9 years of empty promises and nothing to show.

Sorry I'm done with standing behind him, especially if he remains in denial and accepts thrashings as "just a bad day of the office".

It's not about standing behind Scholes either, it's about looking at his points and deciding whether they are valid, to most people they are. Scholes really doesn't have a big mouth, he's more like a mouse. :lol:

[Ollie the Optimist]

@johncrossmirror

Wenger says #afc only "really beaten" once this season.



u wot m8 :haha:

he has a slight but very weak point here. Against city, there were four goals either disallowed or allowed that were completely wrong decisions and would have changed the game massively had they been given correctly. It might not have changed the overall result but perhaps city would have only won by one goal in which case its not a hammering.

The chelsea game was i guess because we had so many injuries that it was no where near our full strength team which is true to an extent but poor planning etc in the summer cost us there although you can't plan for so many key players to be out.

The liverpool game, well that was our best side minus theo and he's right, we were totally taken apart.


A weak point but one that has something to it.

[Marc Overmars]

He's gone mental and is in full on WUMger mode now.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Come off it Ollie. There's no way you can realistically defend such an absurb position. In all three games our team set up and tactical arrangement was plain wrong - once you can rule it out to a bad day at the office, but three times? No way. This isn't talking about the Stoke and Man Utd games were whilst we weren't comprehensively outplayed by superior opposition, we still played badly enough to not deserve a win.

However, first of all I'd question the legitimacy of the comments and the sincerity of them. Wenger, just like Fergie and Mourinho occasionally deliberately spouts bullshit especially after a loss, just to take the focus of the team. Actually, I'm confident that an intelligent man like Wenger doesn't really believe this - you could tell it from his attitude and his defeatist tone after the Chelsea game that he knew we had some major problems.

[Niall_Quinn]

Stand behind a manager I don't believe in anymore after 9 years of empty promises and nothing to show.

Sorry I'm done with standing behind him, especially if he remains in denial and accepts thrashings as "just a bad day of the office".

It's not about standing behind Scholes either, it's about looking at his points and deciding whether they are valid, to most people they are. Scholes really doesn't have a big mouth, he's more like a mouse. :lol:

Empty promises and nothing to show? That's a perfect demonstration of the point I have been making for a while, there are a lot of fans who either don't understand the path the club has been on or simply factor it out of their analysis thereby viewing everything from a wildly negative slant. I'll grant you, the promises sure did look empty for a while there, but the fact is they are starting to be met - right on schedule. And nothing to show? That's a ludicrous denial of the self evident. The club has been transformed financially. It may be you don't value the business side of things or don't see any correlation between the business and the team and if that's your point of view then fine, it's your choice. But to say there is nothing to show and we are left with empty promised. That's just bullshit of the same standard as Wenger being clueless, or Wenger robbing the club or whatever other trash is being used by a section on the fans to belittle the club and the manager. Making these types of claims has got nothing to do with tactics or results, it's just a personal vendetta and blind dismissal of the facts. What did you call it? In denial? Correct, you are.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ferguson would have long given up talking to the press by now if he was being subjected to this psychotic media agenda. It's perfectly valid to question results and team selections and other such things, but to broaden the attack to almost every aspect of the club, to paint a picture of almost everything being at fault or mismanaged or in crisis, it's just bullshit. There's an image earlier in the thread of scandalous lie of a headline created out of thin air by the Daily Himmler. These bastards aren't capable of criticising within any kind of real world context, and neither are many of the fans to be honest. How can there be any honest debate when shit is just being made up?

[Özim]

Empty promises and nothing to show? That's a perfect demonstration of the point I have been making for a while, there are a lot of fans who either don't understand the path the club has been on or simply factor it out of their analysis thereby viewing everything from a wildly negative slant. I'll grant you, the promises sure did look empty for a while there, but the fact is they are starting to be met - right on schedule. And nothing to show? That's a ludicrous denial of the self evident. The club has been transformed financially. It may be you don't value the business side of things or don't see any correlation between the business and the team and if that's your point of view then fine, it's your choice. But to say there is nothing to show and we are left with empty promised. That's just bullshit of the same standard as Wenger being clueless, or Wenger robbing the club or whatever other trash is being used by a section on the fans to belittle the club and the manager. Making these types of claims has got nothing to do with tactics or results, it's just a personal vendetta and blind dismissal of the facts. What did you call it? In denial? Correct, you are.

The path they took was clearly one for financial gain in my mind and it's worked out very well for everyone (except the fans), you may think they are starting to be met but after another season of the same old same old I'm just not convinced, yes we signed Ozil but the club were under such intense pressure from the fans after a disastrous transfer window they almost had no choice.

Most concerning to me is the manager's attitude towards those massive and hugely embarrassing defeats (we're not Stoke or Barnet we're one of the biggest clubs in the land and have been for many yes and results like this are simply unacceptable, for it to happen 3 times is just plain ridiculous), he really doesn't seem that bothered about them, maybe he should be more concerned that he and his team have embarrassed this club as much as they have, or maybe it's just the fact he can get away with whatever he wants at this club and never has to answer to anything or anyone.

There's no personal vendetta here, just a loss of patience for the same BS he always seems to come out with whenever things go pearshaped which incidentally seems to be every single season, you have to ask yourself when we he actually ever learn that he needs to change things, the answer seems to be never.

I don't want to hear about spirit or togetherness anymore, don't want to hear about the young players excuse and don't want to hear about being close anymore when we get trounced, I just want some honesty and some action to be taken rather than plain denial of the facts in front of his eyes.

[fakeyank]

:gp:

Pretty much.

[Power n Glory]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2009533-why-arsene-wenger-the-philosopher-is-nearing-the-end-at-arsenal

This feels like his last season or we're certainly approaching the end. Wenger says he'll sign for next season unless he changes his mind. That's not reassuring and I hope the Board haven't put all their eggs in one basket.

[Niall_Quinn]

The path they took was clearly one for financial gain in my mind and it's worked out very well for everyone (except the fans), you may think they are starting to be met but after another season of the same old same old I'm just not convinced, yes we signed Ozil but the club were under such intense pressure from the fans after a disastrous transfer window they almost had no choice.

Most concerning to me is the manager's attitude towards those massive and hugely embarrassing defeats (we're not Stoke or Barnet we're one of the biggest clubs in the land and have been for many yes and results like this are simply unacceptable, for it to happen 3 times is just plain ridiculous), he really doesn't seem that bothered about them, maybe he should be more concerned that he and his team have embarrassed this club as much as they have, or maybe it's just the fact he can get away with whatever he wants at this club and never has to answer to anything or anyone.

There's no personal vendetta here, just a loss of patience for the same BS he always seems to come out with whenever things go pearshaped which incidentally seems to be every single season, you have to ask yourself when we he actually ever learn that he needs to change things, the answer seems to be never.

I don't want to hear about spirit or togetherness anymore, don't want to hear about the young players excuse and don't want to hear about being close anymore when we get trounced, I just want some honesty and some action to be taken rather than plain denial of the facts in front of his eyes.

Most concerning to you is an interview in the media? At least it's nothing serious. Partially concerning to me is the way some fans hop from one media piece to the next as if any of it is real. The personal gain thing - who are you talking about? The ones that left with all the money, or the ones that remained? Either way, you say getting beaten by the chavs invalidates all else so we end up with empty promises and zero change. Is that your argument? No trophy therefore nothing else has happened at the club? Is that your logic?

[Niall_Quinn]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2009533-why-arsene-wenger-the-philosopher-is-nearing-the-end-at-arsenal

This feels like his last season or we're certainly approaching the end. Wenger says he'll sign for next season unless he changes his mind. That's not reassuring and I hope the Board haven't put all their eggs in one basket.

One astounding quote from that defeatist article - "Against Jose Mourinho—who for all intents and purposes is football's antidote to the 64-year-old..." Astonishing. In the same way you could say Bernie Madoff is the antidote to ethical finance.

[Niall_Quinn]

Also from that dreadful article. "Rodgers, of course, is a disciple of Mourinho. But more telling than their connection is the results the two men are yielding from their teams. The pair have embraced the times and moved with the sport's evolution to become the pre-eminent managers in the English game."

Half a season's worth of performance is all it takes to become pre-eminent? Symptomatic is how I'd describe such idiocy.

Some more childish analysis that dispenses with anything except the raw data. Rather like calling the 400m champion a slow coach because he was trounced by the 4x100m relay team. Give as another couple of Ramseys and the original article would have only played in a third of the games anyway, less chance of injury. Although, how have City been doing with Aguero compared to say, Giroud? Sort of blows the theory to smithereens but that doesn't mean the silliness garnered from the mainstream rags and regurgitated as expertise isn't at least amusing.

"In 2011-12—which was incidentally the first season Arsenal had managed to keep Robin van Persie on the pitch for a full campaign—Arsenal's players missed 1,343 days of activity through injury. In the same season, Chelsea's squad missed just 356. Champions Manchester City saw their players absent for just 186."

The only redeeming feature of that article is it has gathered all the unqualified speculation of the guess masters into one simple sheet that if used carefully would be good for one substantial wipe.

[Power n Glory]

Enough with the self righteous rants!

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bj2DSlvCAAI6h7e.jpg

[1_nilto the arsenal]

After mulling over a possible replacement I narrowed my list to one man who can lead us to glory and work within a tight budget, and bring players in and turn them from good to brilliant. That my friends is the one and only DIEGO SIMEONE


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/03/05/article-2288697-181F5BDB000005DC-834_634x457.jpg

Just dont mention the war!

[Özim]

Most concerning to you is an interview in the media? At least it's nothing serious. Partially concerning to me is the way some fans hop from one media piece to the next as if any of it is real. The personal gain thing - who are you talking about? The ones that left with all the money, or the ones that remained? Either way, you say getting beaten by the chavs invalidates all else so we end up with empty promises and zero change. Is that your argument? No trophy therefore nothing else has happened at the club? Is that your logic?

No it's not just the interview it's the general attitude of the man, I've seen it enough over the last 9 years that I know about his belief in his team and how he goes about fixing problems and improving us and in my mind it's not adequate in any sense, whatever he does he always leaves us short or doesn't do the necessary with transfers and doesn't seem to motivate the players after heavy defeats or poor runs, it's not just this season this has been going on for the last 9 years, this season is just a repeat of the 8 before it.

Personal gain, well the whol cub has gained benefited financially, yes those that have left certainly, I wouldn't say Wenger specifically but he has also benefited just look at how much money he gets paid (I'm not saying this was his intention but it was a consequence), which IMO is too much for a club with our record in the last 8-9 years. You can argue that the people upstairs are happy with it as that was his target, but that just reinforces my point, 4th place = money and thus they are happy and don't fell the need to pressure the manager into more and ultimately he's also happy.

No getting almost regular beatings does though, this season it's been cricket scores (3 times), but this isn't new, there's been enough 4-0, 4-1 and unacceptable scorelines in recent times, this season is just the icing on the cake, we've sunk to new levels getting absolutely humiliated, though in Wenger's opinion it's just circustmances, he changes nothing, doesn't adapt and doesn't react to results like this and within a couple weeks they're irrelevant.

Results that embarrass the club like this aren't irrelevant, they need to be taken seriously, you may be able to put one an an accident but three in one season for any other manager at a top club that would be a sackable offence tbh.

It seems to me that even some of the fans now write off those results as a bad day at the office, it's almost like they never happened at all now and don't matter, they matter a lot and should be taken more seriously rather than written off, big teams don't get battered like this as often as this without there being serious issues somewhere.

[Niall_Quinn]

Enough with the self righteous rants!

Enough with posting up curated content posing as analysis.

[Özim]

One astounding quote from that defeatist article - "Against Jose Mourinho—who for all intents and purposes is football's antidote to the 64-year-old..." Astonishing. In the same way you could say Bernie Madoff is the antidote to ethical finance.

Perhaps a misuse of words but by antidote he may well be talking about the fact Wenger has failed to ever get the better of Mourinho in a game, if you look at it from that perspective the word antidote kinda works, I doubt it's meant in the nasty way you probably are thinking.

This suggests to me that Mourinho's methods and tactics are able to nullify Wenger's philosophy.

[Özim]

Also from that dreadful article. "Rodgers, of course, is a disciple of Mourinho. But more telling than their connection is the results the two men are yielding from their teams. The pair have embraced the times and moved with the sport's evolution to become the pre-eminent managers in the English game."

Half a season's worth of performance is all it takes to become pre-eminent? Symptomatic is how I'd describe such idiocy.

Some more childish analysis that dispenses with anything except the raw data. Rather like calling the 400m champion a slow coach because he was trounced by the 4x100m relay team. Give as another couple of Ramseys and the original article would have only played in a third of the games anyway, less chance of injury. Although, how have City been doing with Aguero compared to say, Giroud? Sort of blows the theory to smithereens but that doesn't mean the silliness garnered from the mainstream rags and regurgitated as expertise isn't at least amusing.

"In 2011-12—which was incidentally the first season Arsenal had managed to keep Robin van Persie on the pitch for a full campaign—Arsenal's players missed 1,343 days of activity through injury. In the same season, Chelsea's squad missed just 356. Champions Manchester City saw their players absent for just 186."

The only redeeming feature of that article is it has gathered all the unqualified speculation of the guess masters into one simple sheet that if used carefully would be good for one substantial wipe.

It's not just half a season though, he did a fine job at Swansea too.

[Niall_Quinn]

Perhaps a misuse of words but by antidote he may well be talking about the fact Wenger has failed to ever get the better of Mourinho in a game, if you look at it from that perspective the word antidote kinda works, I doubt it's meant in the nasty way you probably are thinking.

This suggests to me that Mourinho's methods and tactics are able to nullify Wenger's philosophy.

It says "football's antidote", as if somehow Mourinho represents a positive. His philosophy is possibly the most negative and destructive we've ever seen in the game. A man who cares nothing for the sport as evidenced by his abominations in Europe. I'm not disputing his foul methods are effective, but to cast him as football's antidote to anything except entertainment is a polar misrepresentation, as wide of the mark as it is possible to be. Of course Mourinho didn't write this himself, it was some know nothing web administrator who culled a series of hack pieces into an article so he could pose as an analyst. Link bait for the unwary. Let's at least be sensible about who we listen to in our rush to put the boot in.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's not just half a season though, he did a fine job at Swansea too.

It really would have been interesting to see what would have happened with the fortunes of both clubs this season had Henry honoured Suarez's contract. Where do you think Liverpool would be in such a case, Rodgers and all? Where do you think we might be? Let's not make heroes out of people before they've had a chance to actually do something.

[Niall_Quinn]

No it's not just the interview it's the general attitude of the man, I've seen it enough over the last 9 years that I know about his belief in his team and how he goes about fixing problems and improving us and in my mind it's not adequate in any sense, whatever he does he always leaves us short or doesn't do the necessary with transfers and doesn't seem to motivate the players after heavy defeats or poor runs, it's not just this season this has been going on for the last 9 years, this season is just a repeat of the 8 before it.

Personal gain, well the whol cub has gained benefited financially, yes those that have left certainly, I wouldn't say Wenger specifically but he has also benefited just look at how much money he gets paid (I'm not saying this was his intention but it was a consequence), which IMO is too much for a club with our record in the last 8-9 years. You can argue that the people upstairs are happy with it as that was his target, but that just reinforces my point, 4th place = money and thus they are happy and don't fell the need to pressure the manager into more and ultimately he's also happy.

No getting almost regular beatings does though, this season it's been cricket scores (3 times), but this isn't new, there's been enough 4-0, 4-1 and unacceptable scorelines in recent times, this season is just the icing on the cake, we've sunk to new levels getting absolutely humiliated, though in Wenger's opinion it's just circustmances, he changes nothing, doesn't adapt and doesn't react to results like this and within a couple weeks they're irrelevant.

Results that embarrass the club like this aren't irrelevant, they need to be taken seriously, you may be able to put one an an accident but three in one season for any other manager at a top club that would be a sackable offence tbh.

It seems to me that even some of the fans now write off those results as a bad day at the office, it's almost like they never happened at all now and don't matter, they matter a lot and should be taken more seriously rather than written off, big teams don't get battered like this as often as this without there being serious issues somewhere.

The point being, we are not looking at a club where nothing has happened, we aren't even looking at a club where promises have been broken. Similarly we aren't looking at a club where all is well, there are problems. But why not address the problems as they are rather than magnify them to the extreme?

[Özim]

It really would have been interesting to see what would have happened with the fortunes of both clubs this season had Henry honoured Suarez's contract. Where do you think Liverpool would be in such a case, Rodgers and all? Where do you think we might be? Let's not make heroes out of people before they've had a chance to actually do something.

My opinion is that Rodgers is proving to be a good manager, he got Swansea promoted and turned them into an attacking team that played good football, he's done much the same with Liverpool and signed a few good players too.

His voice irritates the f*ck out of me, but he's a decent manager IMO.

[Özim]

The point being, we are not looking at a club where nothing has happened, we aren't even looking at a club where promises have been broken. Similarly we aren't looking at a club where all is well, there are problems. But why not address the problems as they are rather than magnify them to the extreme?

I'm just not convinced the manager will, there lies the issue for me I don't trust him to look at the situation, identify what needs to be resolved and resolve it. The reason I don't is due to the way he has handled things in the last 9 years, it seems to be more about players he likes that can play Wengerball rather than players the team needs, likewise tactics, it's about his philosophy rather than the opposition, this doesn't work for me.

This isn't just about spending money, it's the way he spends it, his tactics and inflexibility, if I believed he learnt from past mistakes and could adapt to a situation I'd be happy, I just don't.

[bunsco]

I'm just not convinced the manager will, there lies the issue for me I don't trust him to look at the situation, identify what needs to be resolved and resolve it. The reason I don't is due to the way he has handled things in the last 9 years, it seems to be more about players he likes that can play Wengerball rather than players the team needs, likewise tactics, it's about his philosophy rather than the opposition, this doesn't work for me.

This isn't just about spending money, it's the way he spends it, his tactics and inflexibility, if I believed he learn from past mistakes and could adapt to a situation I'd be happy, I just don't.

This...

[Power n Glory]

Enough with posting up curated content posing as analysis.

Stop reading it. It's not for you. You have a habit of posting up paranoid, long winded rants without any real substance or counter arguments.

[Globalgunner]

Stop reading it. It's not for you. You have a habit of posting up paranoid, long winded rants without any real substance or counter arguments.

Dont even bother, He`s a one issue man. Anything that denigrates Wenger must be fought venemously. If he cant win the argument he will go off on a tangent about some minor content in your post. He may be an old man, but there is an 11 year old working the levers there......

Basically in the world according to NQ
Stadium......Thanks to Wenger
Commercial deals........Wenger
Worldwide fanbase......Wenger
Training facilities.........Wenger
Best in class pitch.......Wenger

Shitty football and choking in big games......Thats the players

[Niall_Quinn]

Dont even bother, He`s a one issue man. Anything that denigrates Wenger must be fought venemously. If he cant win the argument he will go off on a tangent about some minor content in your post. He may be an old man, but there is an 11 year old working the levers there......

Basically in the world according to NQ
Stadium......Thanks to Wenger
Commercial deals........Wenger
Worldwide fanbase......Wenger
Training facilities.........Wenger
Best in class pitch.......Wenger

Shitty football and choking in big games......Thats the players

This is what I'm talking about PnG - made up shit spun up to the extreme but devoid of serious analysis. It's first necessary to filter the idiots out if you want a meaningful debate. This guy here and the guy who curated a bunch of nonsense (counter arguments provided - read again) haven't a clue what they are talking about - they just parrot whatever is the loudest shit available at any given moment.

[Globalgunner]

This is what I'm talking about PnG - made up shit spun up to the extreme but devoid of serious analysis. It's first necessary to filter the idiots out if you want a meaningful debate. This guy here and the guy who curated a bunch of nonsense (counter arguments provided - read again) haven't a clue what they are talking about - they just parrot whatever is the loudest shit available at any given moment.

There`s nothing made up about. That is you in a nutshell. Everything in that post is extracted from your rants in recent weeks. As soon as Swansea scored. You piped up.....That s the players letting the coach down. See how shit like that comes to bite you in the derriere? . Take a look and see how a team fighting for survival are putting up a better effort than Wengers weaklings against Mourinho`s boys

[Dein-machine]

Bringing in trial managers to see if they are any good at the top level? That's even worse than signing players on potential when we need real experience, isn't it? We can hardly afford a well intentioned disaster over the next couple of seasons. If Wenger goes then it will have to be a top coach who has done the business at the very top level who replaces him, anything else would be potentially chucking away the footholds we have suffered to gain.

Did you say the same when you heard we were bringing in someone we've never heard of from Japan all those years ago?

[Niall_Quinn]

Did you say the same when you heard we were bringing in someone we've never heard of from Japan all those years ago?

No, I was still wandering around chanting, "We've got Dennis Bergkamp."

[Letters]

Did you say the same when you heard we were bringing in someone we've never heard of from Japan all those years ago?
We'd never heard of him but David Dein had known him for years and had come to believe he was the right man for the job.
He wasn't just some unknown plucked from obscurity and given a chance. He might not have been known in England which, at the time, was very ignorant of the worldwide game. But he'd done well with Monaco and Grampus 8 and Dein had cultivated enough of a relationship with him to believe he'd be good for Arsenal.

Not quite the same as taking a punt on someone.

[Dein-machine]

We'd never heard of him but David Dein had known him for years and had come to believe he was the right man for the job.
He wasn't just some unknown plucked from obscurity and given a chance. He might not have been known in England which, at the time, was very ignorant of the worldwide game. But he'd done well with Monaco and Grampus 8 and Dein had cultivated enough of a relationship with him to believe he'd be good for Arsenal.

Not quite the same as taking a punt on someone.

I was responding to NQ suggesting that we have to have a top well known manager from a top club to replace Wenger - My point is that you & NQ are obviously very big Wenger fans & totally happy that he has & will continue to be a magnificent manager for us, this would then suggest that it is not that neccessary to have a top manager from a top team because he most certainly wasn't.

[Niall_Quinn]

I was responding to NQ suggesting that we have to have a top well known manager from a top club to replace Wenger - My point is that you & NQ are obviously very big Wenger fans & totally happy that he has & will continue to be a magnificent manager for us, this would then suggest that it is not that neccessary to have a top manager from a top team because he most certainly wasn't.

I am certainly a very big Wenger fan, for many reasons, and have no problem stating it. Nowhere have I said I am totally happy about everything. I can't recall seeing Letters state that either. Both of us have been critical about many aspects of what has happened at the club including the role played by Wenger.

[Dein-machine]

I am certainly a very big Wenger fan, for many reasons, and have no problem stating it. Nowhere have I said I am totally happy about everything. I can't recall seeing Letters state that either. Both of us have been critical about many aspects of what has happened at the club including the role played by Wenger.

No problems with that but your earlier thread stated we have to have a big name manager from a big club - why, when the manager that you are currently a big fan of was neither a big name or from a big club.

[Niall_Quinn]

No problems with that but your earlier thread stated we have to have a big name manager from a big club - why, when the manager that you are currently a big fan of was neither a big name or from a big club.

Because after 10 years of grinding out this financial plan it would be nice to put the team in the hands of as safe a bet as possible, so a track record would be a good indicator. Not saying somebody else couldn't do the job, just saying it's a bigger risk. No guarantees with a big name either, but experience can't hurt. Plus there's the prestige factor which in turn translates to sponsorship and so the wheel turns.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Sean Dyche is the answer.




















:haha:

[Özil's Panoramic View]

No, David Moyes is.














I can't seem to recall whom it was that wanted him here.....


:haha: :haha:

[LDG]

Owen Coyle














:haha: :haha: :haha:

[Letters]

I am certainly a very big Wenger fan, for many reasons, and have no problem stating it. Nowhere have I said I am totally happy about everything. I can't recall seeing Letters state that either. Both of us have been critical about many aspects of what has happened at the club including the role played by Wenger.
Pretty much. What annoys me is

1) People sticking the knife in, I want to shake Wenger at times but he doesn't deserve that level of disrespect.

2) Revisionism about what he's done for the club.

3) People acting like he's this Bumbling Idiot who doesn't have the first clue what he's doing.

An ongoing irritation about this place is that very few people seem be able to have a view about anything which isn't at one complete extreme or the other.

[Maestro]

every single thread on here has descended into a wenger in/out, pro/anti and associated fuckery

is anyone still modding on here :sulk:

[Alpha]

In the unlikely scenario of Arsene stepping down any time soon , the new manager would be without doubt Drag an Stecovic ( not sure about the spelling of his name) the Nagoya Grampus Eight manager where Wenger came from . He has the respect and support of Wenger . He can be an excellent manager if he doesn't adopt the not buying policy of Wenger .I'm 10% sure he will be the next on as the board would listen to Wenger view before he quits

[Maestro]

In the unlikely scenario of Arsene stepping down any time soon , the new manager would be without doubt Drag an Stecovic ( not sure about the spelling of his name) the Nagoya Grampus Eight manager where Wenger came from . He has the respect and support of Wenger . He can be an excellent manager if he doesn't adopt the not buying policy of Wenger .I'm 10% sure he will be the next on as the board would listen to Wenger view before he quits

just another ten percenter then?

[Alpha]

just another ten percenter then?

My mistake I meant 100% sure .

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

In the unlikely scenario of Arsene stepping down any time soon , the new manager would be without doubt Drag an Stecovic ( not sure about the spelling of his name) the Nagoya Grampus Eight manager where Wenger came from . He has the respect and support of Wenger . He can be an excellent manager if he doesn't adopt the not buying policy of Wenger .I'm 10% sure he will be the next on as the board would listen to Wenger view before he quits

You honestly think he will sign a new contract if we finish below the top four and don't win anything.....to be honest i don't think the cup will be enough. I think unless we finish top four and that's looking doubtful at best, i think he will walk away.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

every single thread on here has descended into a wenger in/out, pro/anti and associated fuckery

is anyone still modding on here :sulk:

To be honest, i think this is looking more and more every day like a legitimate thread....contract hasn't been signed, top 4 tenuous at best....no guarantee of the fa cup if the performances of the last fortnight are replicated....if we finish outside the top four i think there will be no way he will stay....i think the four away defeats to the top sides have totally undermined him and you can tell he's getting to the point where he's had enough of it now.

[Maestro]

To be honest, i think this is looking more and more every day like a legitimate thread....contract hasn't been signed, top 4 tenuous at best....no guarantee of the fa cup if the performances of the last fortnight are replicated....if we finish outside the top four i think there will be no way he will stay....i think the four away defeats to the top sides have totally undermined him and you can tell he's getting to the point where he's had enough of it now.

agreed

great respect for his legacy and what he has done for this club, but it's time he stepped down. he just can't cut it on the pitch anymore and it looks as if quite a chunk of the players can't cut it either. sad sad situation.

[Static]

My opinion is that Rodgers is proving to be a good manager, he got Swansea promoted and turned them into an attacking team that played good football, he's done much the same with Liverpool and signed a few good players too.

His voice irritates the f*ck out of me, but he's a decent manager IMO.
Actually, Martinez did that.

[fakeyank]

Time for arry to come home tbh..

Sent from my LG-D800 using Tapatalk

[Power n Glory]

http://1nildown2oneup.net/have-arsenal-already-employed-wengers-successor-conspiracy-theory/

Hmmmm

[fakeyank]

http://1nildown2oneup.net/have-arsenal-already-employed-wengers-successor-conspiracy-theory/

Hmmmm

Inshahallah :pray:

[fakeyank]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12040/9253877/problem-solver

A good thread about Rogers. Spot on about being a great tactician. You can have decent players in your team, but with good tactics, you can win with that team and play exciting football.

[fari]

Actually, Martinez did that.


quite right

[AFC Leveller]

According to the Telegraph, board wont sack him even if we finish outside the top 4 and dont win the FA cup.

Not surprising considering half of the board members know fuck all about football and are happy enough making money every season.

[bignev]

According to the Telegraph, board wont sack him even if we finish outside the top 4 and dont win the FA cup.
.

It might be correct but I wouldn't take it too seriously. How would the Telegraph know that? I doubt anyone in the club would have told them.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It might be correct but I wouldn't take it too seriously. How would the Telegraph know that? I doubt anyone in the club would have told them.

The board aren't going to sack him No, but he won't sign a contract extension without finishing fourth and winning the cup he knows the feeling against him will be too strong. There is no question of him being sacked, but i think he will definitley walk away without 4th and the FA cup, if he cared that little for the fans and what they think why hasn't he signed the contract already?

[Dein-machine]

This isn't the first time that Wenger has f----d about over his contract but it shows his double standards when he accuses players of commitment issues when they do the same thing.
Think he needs to wait until the end of the season, whether we win the cup or not is irrelevant to me, if his lack of ambition especially in signing a decent striker means that we lose out on CL football then I would imagine the fans will let him know that he has overstayed his welcome in our final home game. The poor guy has done wonders for the club in the past but he is too stubborn & cannot see the obvious need to buy quality ( which is expensive ). Hope for his sake we win the cup & allow him to leave in a trophy winning year but if he stays a serves up another year of false hope then he will leave our club with the " master of failure" jibe being more appropriate than it should be.

[Letters]

This isn't the first time that Wenger has f----d about over his contract but it shows his double standards when he accuses players of commitment issues when they do the same thing.
Not really. Wenger has never shown anything other than 100% commitment to Arsenal. He has often waited to sign a new contract till all the details are sorted out, if I remember right one time he was actually out of contact for a while, but he always made it clear he would sign.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Not really. Wenger has never shown anything other than 100% commitment to Arsenal. He has often waited to sign a new contract till all the details are sorted out, if I remember right one time he was actually out of contact for a while, but he always made it clear he would sign.

I essentially think he is a man of his word but I honestly think if he was 100% committed to being here after the end of season he would have signed the contract that has been offered him, the contract has been waiting since January and he could have signed during a period where the results were good...but I think regardless it has always been his intention to wait till the end of the season and reflect on what he has achieved before signing. And if both 4th and the FA cup don't happen I don't believe he will sign the new contract and may step down

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So as far as I'm concerned its a 50/50 split as to whether he will be Arsenal manager next season. The board won't sack him, but I think it's clear they aren't pushing him to sign either I think especially as the season has unravelled their attitude has been well the ball is in your court, if you sign you sign if you don't you don't and I wouldn't be surprised if Gazidis has sounded out potential replacements if Wenger does walk away.

[AFC Leveller]

The board wont sack him, they dont have a clue whats going on and Gazidis will come out with his usual BS in the summer about the money being there and about the club going places etc.

Wenger IMO is finished at this club, he is a broken man and these 4 defeats have shown us that the players simply dont fight for him when it matters. It was all his own doing anyway because EVERYONE knows we needed a striker to come in and we needed some much needed pace but he got an injured over the hill DCM and brought in an unknown from Ligue 2! how can anyone not question his judgement when he does these things every time.

[AKBapologist]

It's not about fight. We just don't have the strength in depth, the power and the pace - we have an exceptionally unbalanced even before the injuries squad and everyone knows it. Speaking of injuries, that's also not an accident - you either change the way you manage and prepare the players or have a squad big enough to compensate. In every way we've failed this season, Wenger is to blame.


The board should fuck off too, and I wouldn't trust them on finding a replacement given the fact they don't have the balls or credentials to even question wenger - none of them have footballing backgrounds. Basically, we're fucked.

[Power n Glory]

http://le-grove.co.uk/2014/04/08/guess-which-other-manager-has-a-degree/#more-19002

Worth a read.

[Letters]

I essentially think he is a man of his word but I honestly think if he was 100% committed to being here after the end of season he would have signed the contract that has been offered him, the contract has been waiting since January and he could have signed during a period where the results were good...but I think regardless it has always been his intention to wait till the end of the season and reflect on what he has achieved before signing. And if both 4th and the FA cup don't happen I don't believe he will sign the new contract and may step down

I agree but I think that's him being fairly reasonable though, isn't it? As we've discovered over the last few weeks, you can't sensibly assess a season till the end.
I think if he leaves he'll do so as much because he thinks it's for the best for the club as well as himself.

[I am invisible]

http://le-grove.co.uk/2014/04/08/guess-which-other-manager-has-a-degree/#more-19002

Worth a read.

Read this earlier - some interesting (sobering) thoughts there, as always, but nothing to be daunted by, in my opinion. If anything, I think we should be genuinely excited about the amount of scope we still have for improvement, given where we currently sit, and what we have going for us as a club? Even though other clubs are getting more out of what they have right now, and are putting us to shame in certain departments, I feel it's going to be far easier for us to pull our socks up and modernise tour approach to things like fitness, coaching and scouting than it will be for the likes of Liverpool, s***s, Everton, etc to finance stadium moves, drastically increase their revenue potentials, and generally sustain what they're currently doing over the long-term...

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bktqoi6CMAA02Ba.png

[Dein-machine]

Read this earlier - some interesting (sobering) thoughts there, as always, but nothing to be daunted by, in my opinion. If anything, I think we should be genuinely excited about the amount of scope we still have for improvement, given where we currently sit, and what we have going for us as a club? Even though other clubs are getting more out of what they have right now, and are putting us to shame in certain departments, I feel it's going to be far easier for us to pull our socks up and modernise tour approach to things like fitness, coaching and scouting than it will be for the likes of Liverpool, s***s, Everton, etc to finance stadium moves, drastically increase their revenue potentials, and generally sustain what they're currently doing over the long-term...

Good read but not quite sure what the guys actual message is. He suggests at the end that its a bit of a "defense" of the current situation but seems quite critical of Wenger throughout. At the end of the day the surprising thing for me is how far we seem to have fallen behind on issues where I thought Wenger would be strong. If the mistakes made by medical staff using the redzone method are true then its farcical that we are supposed to have "Le Prof" in charge. Bearing in mind how much our football & player quality has regressed since the Invincibles era, the very least is that you would expect him to have all the technical stuff in order. Gazidis needs to give more control over things like medical issues, diets/food to experts & take Wenger away from making decisions on things he new a little bit about 15 years ago.
Wenger should decide the kind of players we need in transfer window but then let others do the deals - he has constantly proved his dinosaur views on modern day transfers are costing us the chance to add quality to the squad.
Having read the article, it just makes more sense for the good of Arsenal Football club that AW says his goodbyes this year.
We sound like a club where nobody makes a move without Wengers say so, he is trying to be "Jack of all trades" & I'm afraid he has become "Master of non" ( or failure in Maureen's words ).

[Power n Glory]

Read this earlier - some interesting (sobering) thoughts there, as always, but nothing to be daunted by, in my opinion. If anything, I think we should be genuinely excited about the amount of scope we still have for improvement, given where we currently sit, and what we have going for us as a club? Even though other clubs are getting more out of what they have right now, and are putting us to shame in certain departments, I feel it's going to be far easier for us to pull our socks up and modernise tour approach to things like fitness, coaching and scouting than it will be for the likes of Liverpool, s***s, Everton, etc to finance stadium moves, drastically increase their revenue potentials, and generally sustain what they're currently doing over the long-term...

Yes, I'm not daunted at all. I think we're on the cusp of something big but just need a few adjustments.

[Power n Glory]

Good read but not quite sure what the guys actual message is. He suggests at the end that its a bit of a "defense" of the current situation but seems quite critical of Wenger throughout. At the end of the day the surprising thing for me is how far we seem to have fallen behind on issues where I thought Wenger would be strong. If the mistakes made by medical staff using the redzone method are true then its farcical that we are supposed to have "Le Prof" in charge. Bearing in mind how much our football & player quality has regressed since the Invincibles era, the very least is that you would expect him to have all the technical stuff in order. Gazidis needs to give more control over things like medical issues, diets/food to experts & take Wenger away from making decisions on things he new a little bit about 15 years ago.
Wenger should decide the kind of players we need in transfer window but then let others do the deals - he has constantly proved his dinosaur views on modern day transfers are costing us the chance to add quality to the squad.
Having read the article, it just makes more sense for the good of Arsenal Football club that AW says his goodbyes this year.
We sound like a club where nobody makes a move without Wengers say so, he is trying to be "Jack of all trades" & I'm afraid he has become "Master of non" ( or failure in Maureen's words ).

In essence, I think he's saying Wenger is holding the club back. He has too much control over too many areas and needs to freshen up the backroom staff or move on. He's overplaying players which leads to injuries and he's overtraining players, which also leads to injuries. We've got equipment which monitors fatigue levels but Wenger ignores the warning signs. Le Grove has been posting about the fitness of the payers a lot lately.

[selassie]

http://le-grove.co.uk/2014/04/08/guess-which-other-manager-has-a-degree/#more-19002

Worth a read.

Thanks for sharing P'n'G, that was a good read and I do pretty much share the same opinion.

[Power n Glory]

Thanks for sharing P'n'G, that was a good read and I do pretty much share the same opinion.

Me too. I think we're trying to reshape things behind the scenes. The sponsorship deals, summer tours and appointment of Andries Jonker head of the Youth Academy suggests we're trying to get up to speed. But I really don't know if Wenger is on board with simplifying his role. Murmurs of contract talks stalling because we're trying to adjust his role at the club in certain areas, but no idea how true they are. I would have thought a deal would have been tied up by now.

We'll see what happens in the summer. It doesn't have to be the end of the road for Wenger. A few adjustments here and there and we'd be fine but I don't think his stubborn nature will be his downfall. We need to adjust and can't continue with the same things that worked almost 20 years ago.

[BlindFaith_8]

I believe the contract has already been signed months ago but the club, board members and Wenger have decided to keep it tight lipped unitl a few weeks after the season has finished. This way if we fail to win the the cup and finish 4th, it will all be forgotten about and wont be maginified as much as if the word came out now. I am convinced we have Wenger for the next 2-3 years regardless of how the season ends. I for one will be dissapointed if this was to happen as we will never move forward with Wenger and we will never win the league, Uefa Champions League or Europa Legaue.

[topgun]

I believe the contract has already been signed months ago but the club, board members and Wenger have decided to keep it tight lipped unitl a few weeks after the season has finished. This way if we fail to win the the cup and finish 4th, it will all be forgotten about and wont be maginified as much as if the word came out now. I am convinced we have Wenger for the next 2-3 years regardless of how the season ends. I for one will be dissapointed if this was to happen as we will never move forward with Wenger and we will never win the league, Uefa Champions League or Europa Legaue.

Well be prepared to be disappointed,Wenger has stated clearly on sky sports news this evening that his main priority is to keep this squad together and to learn from the mistakes made in the big games this season,and talked about getting back to basics and spending not always being the answer.

[fakeyank]

Yea, just saw that on skysports. Wenger has literally killed the joy of following this football club... my gf, a new Arsenal fan, wants to go to NY to watch us play the Red bulls this july. I told her that if Wenger is still in charge come July, there is no way in hell I am going. It doesnt matter I'd get to see Titi in action but they are not getting a dime more from me to pay Wenger's 12 million dollar salary every year.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well be prepared to be disappointed,Wenger has stated clearly on sky sports news this evening that his main priority is to keep this squad together and to learn from the mistakes made in the big games this season,and talked about getting back to basics and spending not always being the answer.

It's not the answer for this football club, anymore than it is the answer for me...you can't spend what you don't have.

[BlindFaith_8]

Well be prepared to be disappointed,Wenger has stated clearly on sky sports news this evening that his main priority is to keep this squad together and to learn from the mistakes made in the big games this season,and talked about getting back to basics and spending not always being the answer.
:ilt: OMG. Looks ike an increase in my anti depressant dosage from 20Mg to 100Mg. I cant handle another season with this manager if he doesnt make wholesale changes to this dead wood squad.

[KSE Comedy Club]

It's not the answer for this football club, anymore than it is the answer for me...you can't spend what you don't have.

Exactly.

we are officially the poorest club in the world.

Lucky for us we have the best manager in world football at the helm.

Next season the League, CL, FA and League cup should be a walk in the park.

No need to make any changes

[IBK]

Yea, just saw that on skysports. Wenger has literally killed the joy of following this football club... my gf, a new Arsenal fan, wants to go to NY to watch us play the Red bulls this july. I told her that if Wenger is still in charge come July, there is no way in hell I am going. It doesnt matter I'd get to see Titi in action but they are not getting a dime more from me to pay Wenger's 12 million dollar salary every year.

Sometimes you see a comment that makes you think. I wouldn't be so extreme - but a combination of things have really killed my enjoyment of watching us. It's probably the groundhog day inevitabilty...

[KSE Comedy Club]

Sometimes you see a comment that makes you think. I wouldn't be so extreme - but a combination of things have really killed my enjoyment of watching us. It's probably the groundhog day inevitabilty...

Certainly that way to me.

10 years of literally watching the same season play out over and over, with the same mistakes being made have seen my enjoyment wane.

I've tried to stay upbeat every year and look at the positives that do appear, but ultimately, as a fan I am continuously let down.

I want to see change, and the only way that is going to happen is for Wenger to be out of the picture.

Time to face facts.

[selassie]

Well be prepared to be disappointed,Wenger has stated clearly on sky sports news this evening that his main priority is to keep this squad together and to learn from the mistakes made in the big games this season,and talked about getting back to basics and spending not always being the answer.

:censored: :censored: :censored:

[IBK]

Certainly that way to me.

10 years of literally watching the same season play out over and over, with the same mistakes being made have seen my enjoyment wane.

I've tried to stay upbeat every year and look at the positives that do appear, but ultimately, as a fan I am continuously let down.

I want to see change, and the only way that is going to happen is for Wenger to be out of the picture.

Time to face facts.

The sad thing is that many of us are actually apprehensive of what will happen - but I feel now that I'd rather risk it than see more inevitable disappointment under Wenger.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Exactly.

we are officially the poorest club in the world.

Lucky for us we have the best manager in world football at the helm.

Next season the League, CL, FA and League cup should be a walk in the park.

No need to make any changes

It must be wonderful to live in a world without shades of grey, that everything is one way or the other. What exactly is that like?...to have such a simplistic world view.
I think the problem with people on this board is that they are hypocrites, they criticise Wenger for being entrenched and yet they are exactly the same themselves, they think that anyone who points out that the money is just not there to compete season in, season out is somehow a stirring defence of the manager it isn't. I think a better manager than Wenger would be able to take advantage when the oportunites come about to compete, like a Jurgen Klopp has and like a Diego Simeone has....they know they can't consistently compete because they are battling against clubs who can make massive losses and still dominate 9 times out of 10, but they don't make excuses because they know they have been left behind.
Spending isn't the answer for clubs like Atletico Madrid, Dortmund etc because like us they don't have the ability to do it....they know if they sell one of their best players for 30million they can spend about 15-20 million maybe on the replacement because otherwise they know the wage bill will cripple them.....and they make the most of what little they have, Wenger doesn't anymore.
They know that winning one or two titles every 10-15 years is better than nothing, even though they know that the managers who helped them to achieve it will be poached by the plutocrat clubs eventually anyway.

[Özim]

Well be prepared to be disappointed,Wenger has stated clearly on sky sports news this evening that his main priority is to keep this squad together and to learn from the mistakes made in the big games this season,and talked about getting back to basics and spending not always being the answer.

This guy literally ruins every enjoyable part of football for me, i just want him to leave.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

This guy literally ruins every enjoyable part of football for me, i just want him to leave.

For me what ruins the game is people like Roman Abramovich, Sheikh Mansour and the cowards in Fifa and Uefa who are too corrupt to deal with them and do the only sensible thing that can be done to save the game a transfer and salary cap.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

For me what ruins the game is people like Roman Abramovich, Sheikh Mansour and the cowards in Fifa and Uefa who are too corrupt to deal with them and do the only sensible thing that can be done to save the game a transfer and salary cap.

And then and only then could we reap the rewards of bringing a new manager in, one who isn't stagnant, tired and enfeebled.

[KSE Comedy Club]

It must be wonderful to live in a world without shades of grey, that everything is one way or the other. What exactly is that like?...to have such a simplistic world view.
I think the problem with people on this board is that they are hypocrites, they criticise Wenger for being entrenched and yet they are exactly the same themselves, they think that anyone who points out that the money is just not there to compete season in, season out is somehow a stirring defence of the manager it isn't. I think a better manager than Wenger would be able to take advantage when the oportunites come about to compete, like a Jurgen Klopp has and like a Diego Simeone has....they know they can't consistently compete because they are battling against clubs who can make massive losses and still dominate 9 times out of 10, but they don't make excuses because they know they have been left behind.
Spending isn't the answer for clubs like Atletico Madrid, Dortmund etc because like us they don't have the ability to do it....they know if they sell one of their best players for 30million they can spend about 15-20 million maybe on the replacement because otherwise they know the wage bill will cripple them.....and they make the most of what little they have, Wenger doesn't anymore.
They know that winning one or two titles every 10-15 years is better than nothing, even though they know that the managers who helped them to achieve it will be poached by the plutocrat clubs eventually anyway.
There is a difference between having no money and pissing away what money we do have.

Wenger has wasted millions on shit, average nobodies over the years. We spent £2m here and £3m there on potential, only to realesse them or sell them on a season later because they weren't good enough, etc.

i said at the time that it was a pointless excersize, better to lump that money in with the small transfer funds that we did have to try and get better, more experienced players. But mostly my argument fell on deaf ears.

players that were decent and affordable were mostly overlooked in favour of 'unearthing the next unknown gem' from Africa or France. We could have done a lot more and far better then we have with player purchasing.

ultimately though, our continuous failure to progress, or win anything is down to Wenger and his lack of getting the basics right.

I still firmly believe that any squad we have had in the last 10 years did have the ability to win the title, compete for it till the end or win some silverware under any other tactically astute/top manager with a winning mentality, that was only focused on the football and not how the club was run on a daily basis from top to bottom.

for some reason this debate has now shifted back to the old one of whether we have money or not and I think it is becoming clearer to plenty more people on this board and most other fans that, that isn't the problem or where it continuously lies.

i really do not understand how we have shifted back to an endless debate about our finances again.???

we all know we can't compete with the billionaires spending power in our self sustainability model, but we can still buy good, decent, top players with the funds we do have and still win silverware.

Unfortunatetely we do not have that in wenger anymore

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

There is a difference between having no money and pissing away what money we do have.

Wenger has wasted millions on shit, average nobodies over the years. We spent £2m here and £3m there on potential, only to realesse them or sell them on a season later because they weren't good enough, etc.

i said at the time that it was a pointless excersize, better to lump that money in with the small transfer funds that we did have to try and get better, more experienced players. But mostly my argument fell on deaf ears.

players that were decent and affordable were mostly overlooked in favour of 'unearthing the next unknown gem' from Africa or France. We could have done a lot more and far better then we have with player purchasing.

ultimately though, our continuous failure to progress, or win anything is down to Wenger and his lack of getting the basics right.

I still firmly believe that any squad we have had in the last 10 years did have the ability to win the title, compete for it till the end or win some silverware under any other tactically astute/top manager with a winning mentality, that was only focused on the football and not how the club was run on a daily basis from top to bottom.

for some reason this debate has now shifted back to the old one of whether we have money or not and I think it is becoming clearer to plenty more people on this board and most other fans that, that isn't the problem or where it continuously lies.

i really do not understand how we have shifted back to an endless debate about our finances again.???

we all know we can't compete with the billionaires spending power in our self sustainability model, but we can still buy good, decent, top players with the funds we do have and still win silverware.

Unfortunatetely we do not have that in wenger anymore

So by that basis you back Wenger entirely because he has done exactly what you suggested he has saved the money back and spent it on Ozil, even though our squad is appallingly thin compared to most of the sides around us.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

In terms of the last ten years I can only think of two ocassions where the squad we had both in terms of quality and in terms of maturity from potential to talent was good enough to compete and that was 2007/08 and 2010/2011.
I would also add this season as well but for the lack of striking options, but I think the money we saved and had to spend on Ozil should have been used on a striker so no excuse for Wenger there either.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Where's the cunt that wanted Uwe Rosler in? :haha:

[KSE Comedy Club]

So by that basis you back Wenger entirely because he has done exactly what you suggested he has saved the money back and spent it on Ozil, even though our squad is appallingly thin compared to most of the sides around us.
Erm....no

But you interpret it/think whatever you like :good:

[dazthegooner]

Seen in an article that Van Gaal is waiting to see what happens with Wenger before deciding his future. Sorry to go off topic ;)

[Maestro]

But mostly my argument fell on deaf ears

Surely not the ears on GW ?

[I am invisible]

Don't know if I'd want van Gaal or not? Feels like another coach from Wenger's generation, who has been around forever, if you know what I mean? I was hoping for someone a bit fresher and more up-and-coming after all this time...

[AFC Leveller]

Pochetinho has been mentioned a few times and id like to see ihm given a chance (providing Klopp isnt available). Id love someone who knows how to organise a team and knows his tactics. Saints play good attacking football while keeping it tight at the back and pressing teams high up the pitch.

[I am invisible]

If Wenger goes, then we should be bold and go for either Klopp or Simeone - both are potentially there for the taking, IMO, but they won't be forever...

[Globalgunner]

if Wenger has anyone who truly loves him or who can give him advice. They should tell him to quit. There is nowhere he can go now, no club of any standing, where the job would be any easier. For 10 mins yesterday he had the look of a man who had just seen a cloaked figure carrying a scythe. The holy grail of the CL has eluded him twice. He is too stuck on principle to be flexible in his approach to the game. So why hang on?. The rebellion that he averted yesterday is only another significant loss away.

Personally I would target Simoene......just what we need. Get Beckham in to be his English coach as they have a previous relationship.....just kidding

[I am invisible]

I have to say, I've always rated Martinez too, even when he was at Wigan, and have been impressed with the job he's done this year - I'm just not sure how realistic a target he is after one season at Everton? Can't imagine Kenwright will be that open to the idea of allowing 2 managers to go in as many years...

[IBK]

Pochetinho has been mentioned a few times and id like to see ihm given a chance (providing Klopp isnt available). Id love someone who knows how to organise a team and knows his tactics. Saints play good attacking football while keeping it tight at the back and pressing teams high up the pitch.

A risk that I would love to see...

[Power n Glory]

http://www.goal.com/en-sg/news/3991/premier-league/2014/04/24/4772356/arsenal-contact-van-gaal-due-to-wenger-uncertainty


The Gunners regard the Netherlands coach as one of several short-term contingency plans in the event that their manager decides to call time on his 18-year reign next month
By Wayne Veysey | Chief Correspondent

Arsenal have made contact with Louis van Gaal amid ongoing uncertainty over the future of Arsene Wenger, Goal understands.

The Gunners remain confident that Wenger will sign a two-year contract extension agreed last October but know he will quit as manager if the team fail to meet his targets over the next month.

As revealed by Goal, the Frenchman has told friends he is considering bringing an end to his 18-year Gunners reign if they do not win the FA Cup and finish in the top four of the Premier League.


One of several "short-term" contingency plans being explored by Arsenal is luring Van Gaal to north London when his contract with Holland expires after the World Cup.

Van Gaal has already held talks with a delegation from Manchester United and has had three meetings with Tottenham but it is understood that the Dutchman has rejected the opportunity to replace Tim Sherwood at Spurs at the end of the season.

Van Gaal is now keeping his options open as he awaits developments at both United and Arsenal.

Intriguingly, three of his former backroom staff, all Dutchmen, have recently taken on jobs at the Arsenal academy following a restructuring of the club’s youth set-up.

Andres Jonker, who will replace the retiring Liam Brady as academy director in the summer, worked alongside Van Gaal at Bayern Munich and Barcelona as well as at the Dutch FA.

Jan van Loon, who will manage the Under-16s, and Frans de Kat, who will coach the Under-18, both worked with Van Gaal at the Dutch FA. The Dutch trio will all start on July 1.

Despite considering Van Gaal, losing Wenger would be a huge blow to Arsenal chiefs, who have continued to give the Frenchman their unwavering support.

The results of the last four matches of the season, which culminate in the FA Cup final against Hull City on May 17, are now set to determine whether Wenger formally commits to a deal that would extend his reign to a remarkable 20 years.

There are not expected to be wholesale changes to the backroom team should Wenger make the shock decision to call time on his Arsenal tenure.

Long-standing ally Boro Primorac, fitness coach Tony Colbert and goalkeeping coach Gerry Peyton would be likely to follow Wenger out of the exit door but assistant manager Steve Bould, first-team coach Neil Banfield and the rest of the senior medical and technical staff would be expected to stay on.

All of the senior staff have agreed deals that mirror Wenger’s and run until 2016, while more junior members of Wenger's backroom team are on 12-month rolling contracts. It is understood the agreements are all in place and are waiting on Wenger to be formalsly rubberstamped.

Usual media BS from Goal but the Andries Jonker is the most interesting part.

[Dein-machine]

"Told friends he is considering bringing an end to his 18-year Gunners reign if they do not win the FA Cup and finish in the top four" - if there is any truth in this, doesn't it just prove that his ambitions do not match that of a club wanting to properly challenge for EPL & CL and that any future contract offered should be on a year to year basis. Our season's under Wenger are becoming too predictable, next year we will probably be struggling for 4th as we normally are at this stage which will mean he may quit then if not this year. Why therefore offer him anything more than a year. If he has his usual disaster at strengthening the squad in the Summer which is 100% why we weren't able to sustain a challenge this year, then it would prove that his will never learn his lesson & things cannot change with him at the helm - he doesn't have the limited funds excuse anymore.

[Power n Glory]

We should have been taking to other managers in the summer. I'm not really sold on Goal's sources, but facts are facts. Wenger has yet to sign a deal and that leaves us in a dangerous position if he does decide to leave. If he's undecided about his future at this stage then the board can't take any risks.

[Dein-machine]

agreed - as I've posted before, he's always quick to question player commitment if they are stalling, he has too much power at the club with too many pathetic yes men scared to upset him - why are we scared? He's the one on a winner, £7m a year to deliver 4th place. If he can't or won't sign, get talking to others - then see how quickly he makes his mind up. What's the worst scenario - he feels let down by the board & decides to leave - probably the BEST scenario for Arsenal.

[I am invisible]

We should have been taking to other managers in the summer. I'm not really sold on Goal's sources, but facts are facts. Wenger has yet to sign a deal and that leaves us in a dangerous position if he does decide to leave. If he's undecided about his future at this stage then the board can't take any risks.

Everyone should agree with that, no matter what side of the fence you sit on regarding Wenger - as things currently stand he hasn't signed a new deal, and we're basically managerless come the end of the season, so it's the only responsible thing for the club to do.

[Özim]

"Told friends he is considering bringing an end to his 18-year Gunners reign if they do not win the FA Cup and finish in the top four" - if there is any truth in this, doesn't it just prove that his ambitions do not match that of a club wanting to properly challenge for EPL & CL and that any future contract offered should be on a year to year basis. Our season's under Wenger are becoming too predictable, next year we will probably be struggling for 4th as we normally are at this stage which will mean he may quit then if not this year. Why therefore offer him anything more than a year. If he has his usual disaster at strengthening the squad in the Summer which is 100% why we weren't able to sustain a challenge this year, then it would prove that his will never learn his lesson & things cannot change with him at the helm - he doesn't have the limited funds excuse anymore.

The 1 year contract thing only works for over 30's, it doesn't apply to over 60's.

[I am invisible]

"Told friends he is considering bringing an end to his 18-year Gunners reign if they do not win the FA Cup and finish in the top four" - if there is any truth in this, doesn't it just prove that his ambitions do not match that of a club wanting to properly challenge for EPL & CL and that any future contract offered should be on a year to year basis. Our season's under Wenger are becoming too predictable, next year we will probably be struggling for 4th as we normally are at this stage which will mean he may quit then if not this year. Why therefore offer him anything more than a year. If he has his usual disaster at strengthening the squad in the Summer which is 100% why we weren't able to sustain a challenge this year, then it would prove that his will never learn his lesson & things cannot change with him at the helm - he doesn't have the limited funds excuse anymore.

The only reason I really see for a 1 year contract is as an interim position while we wait for someone else (e.g. hypothetical situation: Wenger has privately told the club that he wants to retire, but the club don't have a successor lined up, so he's agreed to stay on). Otherwise, what's the point? If you believe you're the right man for the job, then you commit for longer - if you don't, then you walk away.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

There is absolutely no value in replacing Wenger now. If we were going to replace him then we should have done it last summer when good managers were on the move.

Klopp, Ancelotti and Pep are going nowhere. Even the likes of Martinez have just arrived so won't be on the move.

We might as well stick with Wenger for 2 more years then go for a worldie in summer 2016, as most of the top names will probably have had enough of their current clubs by then. Taking a huge risk this summer for the sake of it is silly IMO.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I'd like to know why people think that no decent manager would be available just because they are at other clubs?

Since when has it stopped anyone else from moving clubs when a big opportunity came up?

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

It's not the fact they're at other clubs it's more the fact they've just moved to their current clubs so won't be leaving anytime soon.

Last season there were a plethora of managers available so if we were going to move Wenger on then it was rational to do it then. There's no value in the managerial market now though, unless you take a big risk and go for a less known manager, which is silly IMO.

Name me a realistic, good manager that would be willing to leave this summer?

[Özim]

Managers break contracts and leave for other clubs all the time, contracts shouldn't be a reason not to try and get someone. Contracts are meaningless in football.

[Özim]

It's not the fact they're at other clubs it's more the fact they've just moved to their current clubs so won't be leaving anytime soon.

Last season there were a plethora of managers available so if we were going to move Wenger on then it was rational to do it then. There's no value in the managerial market now though, unless you take a big risk and go for a less known manager, which is silly IMO.

Name me a realistic, good manager that would be willing to leave this summer?

Hang on let me put my management hat on :WengerHat: Dragan Stojković :/WengerHat:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Managers break contracts and leave for other clubs all the time, contracts shouldn't be a reason not to try and get someone. Contracts are meaningless in football.

Not when they've just moved to a club.

[BlindFaith_8]

I think the top 10 best manager could lead Arsenal back to challenging the premiership and getting beyond the last 16 of the CL, unlucky for us we have a Wenger whose methds and tactis are so outdated and has conditioned the players to finsih 4th even before the season has started.