Match Reaction vs Stoke (away).

[McNamara That Ghost...]

:haha:

I..yeah I dunno.

[Munchies]

@piersmorgan ·

In France, they've guillotined people for less than this. #WengerOut

:lol:

[Marc Overmars]

Arsenal. :lol:

My reaction is...oh.

[Master Splinter]

Surely the worst game to reshuffle the defence. Not that it would have made any difference given the team's inability to execute basic footballing fundamentals. Gifting them three goals was a bit too much in the end. Hopefully, we keep it to two or under in the next game.

Also, well done to Anthony Taylor for another masterclass in how to get everything wrong as a referee. He's spectacular.

As many great men have said: "You don't know what you're doing." And Wenger certainly doesn't. Unless he's aiming to have us play clusterfuck football. It's an unholy mess in every way.

But do not forget as well we won the second half 2-0 and of course you know it was all Bellerin's fault again.

[Dein-machine]

We've had too many results this year where late goals have papered over the obvious cracks. The disappointment was to get 2 goals back, 4 or 5 nil would have been more appropriate & needed to start those in power to realise we need immediate change.









E

[KSE Comedy Club]

@piersmorgan ·

In France, they've guillotined people for less than this. #WengerOut

:lol:
:lol:

[Alpha]

wenger should have started with the second half team . Bellerin starting at Stoke ? Why didn't he start flamini as a RB ? Didi we need a defensive midfielder against Stoke ? Ramsey , Cazorla and Chamberlain were not enough for him to start as midfielders ? Why did he not start with Podolski or Campbell at the LW ? Why did he not start with both Wellbeck and Giroud to add a bit of punch to counter the physical side of Stoke ?

My team would have been :
Martinez

Flamini Chambers Metersacker Gibbs

Chamberlain Ramsey Cazorla


Wellbeck Alexis
Giroud

[Bumble]

Flamini at right back? Really away at stoke to play a player out of position who isn't even that good.

Giroud is better off the bench he has no mobility. We were lucky not to lose by more.

Wenger is really lucky though despite us being awful Liverpool spurs Everton aren't going to take 4th.

[Maestro]

what time does the Letters v SWAYR show start?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Press conference at 7pm.

[Globalgunner]

Everything we've seen today we've seen before. Wenger never learns. I remember when Stoke still had that towel wielding long throw expert in their team. Name escapes me now. Away game, first throw in, we were 1 goal down. This is now Allardyces Bolton used to boss us around when they didn't boss anyone else in the league. The man simply won't train for the opposition, won't strategize for the opposition. Unless you believe putting Bellerin in at RB at the wrong game is svelte tactics. I'm not despondent. Hopefully we stil make 4th and the berk has the good grace to leave. Every game we play now is hopefully 1 game less with Wumger in charge.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Turned it off at halftime.

It must have taken a lot of spirit, togetherness and belief to get it back to 3-2.

Good times ahead!

[alexander]

After the last three games, thought we had turned a corner. we have not.

pffft, dont even bother me now, and I hate that it doesnt <_<

[Gooner23]

After the last three games, thought we had turned a corner. we have not.

pffft, dont even bother me now, and I hate that it doesnt <_<

I think that's the worse thing. I genuinely don't care that much anymore if we lose.

[alexander]

I think that's the worse thing. I genuinely don't care that much anymore if we lose.

It used to ruin my saturday evening. Not any more. Dam you Wenger, dam you to hell

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Surely that's a good thing if your Saturday evening is still intact

The result was predictable if not the scoreline

Before the game Wenger refused to even acknowledge that this was a tricky venue for us, so there could be no surprise that we didn't change our tactics against this opposition

We know that the man can't take invitations

United were begging to be fucked over a fortnight ago but we got erectile dysfunction on the night

Stoke today are in poor form especially at home and yet we gift wrapped three goals for them so no matter how we performed in the second half the game was beyond us.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Perhaps I was premature in suggesting Giroud had done enough to start ahead of Welbeck....though I doubt the latter would have caused a different result either.

Sanchez was poor today too so we had no hope and we are pretty bad at heading a football.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Press conference at 7pm.

Don't say things like that, it gets people's hopes up

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Has he fucked off yet?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Has he fucked off yet?

Come back in 29 months
And even then the board might have stupidly given him another extension

[Gooner23]

Well they back him when he has a plan. And keep quiet when he doesn't. Says it all really.

[selassie]

I wasn't expecting anything out of the game so wasn't surprised to see us lose this. I suppose the fightback if that's what you call it will justify everything in Wenger's eyes, "this team has good spirit and you saw zee quality and togetherness in zee 2nd half" :rolleyes:

I just wish this season would end and he leaves, I really can't take much more of this.

Edited to add: Just reading through the post match comments, Wenger mentions Welbeck had a little groin problem hence why he didn't start. Obviously Koscielny is still crocked as he was on the bench, Gibbs and Monreal are always crocked, we have the usual long term absentees. This season seems worse than previous seasons, we just seem to cripple our players, do other clubs have as many injuries as we do? Also...how comes someone like Ozil was never injured for Real yet he comes here and is like a cripple.

[Ernesto]

Just got back from the game. Disgusting, pathetic, spineless.

[topgun]

I wasn't expecting anything out of the game so wasn't surprised to see us lose this. I suppose the fightback if that's what you call it will justify everything in Wenger's eyes, "this team has good spirit and you saw zee quality and togetherness in zee 2nd half" :rolleyes:

I just wish this season would end and he leaves, I really can't take much more of this.

Edited to add: Just reading through the post match comments, Wenger mentions Welbeck had a little groin problem hence why he didn't start. Obviously Koscielny is still crocked as he was on the bench, Gibbs and Monreal are always crocked, we have the usual long term absentees. This season seems worse than previous seasons, we just seem to cripple our players, do other clubs have as many injuries as we do? Also...how comes someone like Ozil was never injured for Real yet he comes here and is like a cripple.

Totally agree,I just don't know what to say anymore.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

http://giant.gfycat.com/PeacefulGroundedCaribou.gif

:blink:

[adzzzbatch]

http://giant.gfycat.com/PeacefulGroundedCaribou.gif

:blink:

Clearly not a foul.

[Maestro]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5wE-Ybr14A&list=UUBTy8j2cPy6zw68godcE7MQ#t=176

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Come back in 29 months
And even then the board might have stupidly given him another extension



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5wE-Ybr14A&list=UUBTy8j2cPy6zw68godcE7MQ#t=176

Just watched that, Ty is someone you just want to hit. Claude kind of loses the moral high ground by shouting and swearing at him, but its so true he refuses to even contemplate criticising the manager. He's frustrating because actually the fans need a unified voice and that is that the Managers time has come.
To the people who still support Wenger, what are you getting back in return for your support? Do you still think this man can deliver like he did in the past?
The annoying thing is that I don't want to have personal animus to Wenger, I want him to be remembered as the guy who won us three league titles who changed our club unrecognisably for the better, not some Gallic water treading old fart who has alienated the club fan base

[Injury Time]

So er what imaginative stuff did WUMger say about that then?

[Thierrymon]

:ilt:

[Power n Glory]

Just watched that, Ty is someone you just want to hit. Claude kind of loses the moral high ground by shouting and swearing at him, but its so true he refuses to even contemplate criticising the manager. He's frustrating because actually the fans need a unified voice and that is that the Managers time has come.
To the people who still support Wenger, what are you getting back in return for your support? Do you still think this man can deliver like he did in the past?
The annoying thing is that I don't want to have personal animus to Wenger, I want him to be remembered as the guy who won us three league titles who changed our club unrecognisably for the better, not some Gallic water treading old fart who has alienated the club fan base

Was just watching that on YouTube and it's embarrassing. Wenger isn't Arsenal and when he's gone the fans will still be here. This isn't good.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Was just watching that on YouTube and it's embarrassing. Wenger isn't Arsenal and when he's gone the fans will still be here. This isn't good.

Yep both funny and depressing in equal measures but most of all embarrassing

I think a lot of us are potential Claudes, we try and train ourselves not to care or raise our eyebrows and be dismissive because its so predictable. But I can feel my blood boiling as well, I thought we'd lose today but thinking its going to happen and then having your thoughts confirmed doesn't make you any more sanguine.

I'm sure people like Ty don't mean to be annoying, on one hand he's entitled to his point of view even though its moronic but people like that can rile you. It really isn't helpful to be positive...you are just going to piss people off.

If Bellerins cross was better, Giroud would have scored and it would have been a different game

First off If my mother had been a goat, I'd be a goat and would probably have become a curry...totally different outcome

Second off, would it really have made much difference I still think we'd have contrived to find a way to lose this game?

[Niall_Quinn]

Claude, Ty and Bully - three utter arseholes tbf.

As for the game - I didn't see it. My reaction to the score is - Wenger out. He picked the wrong team again, and he didn't prepare for the opponent. I didn't see it but I assume this is the case because it's Wenger's MO. Wenger doesn't know what momentum is. He doesn't value it. When I saw the chavs had lost it was bitter/sweet. Sweet (as fuck) because the chavs lost. Bitter because as soon as that happened I knew there was no way in hell we'd seize the opportunity to close the gap. Whenever we have a chance to take a step forward Wenger intervenes to drive us back. We should have had a gameplan to defeat the trolls today. I didn't see it but I didn't have to to know we played the same old shit as always, oblivious to the opponent. We need a proper manager now.

[Ralpheroo72]

Didnt see it, think I was taking a shit. The shit was most likely more enjoyable.

[adzzzbatch]

Didnt see it, think I was taking a shit. The shit was most likely more enjoyable.

I didn't know you were an Arsenal fan Kimi.

[Ernesto]

I saw Claude at the end of the game just as I went for a gypsy's. It's mildly embarrassing how some people want to be attached to this minor celebrity. Oh, Claude, please shake my hand! You don't know my name but I certainly know yours.

He seems like a good guy and I imagine he'd be the first to spurn any unwanted attention for his comments. However, if we're looking for some sort of official spokesperson for our club, it isn't Claude. He isn't articulate enough.

As for the general feeling of fans during the game, there was booing at half-time, which I don't agree with (if the opposition fans are going to boo your team for 90 mins, how does it help for you to do the same?) There was also, surprisingly, very little disdain directed towards Wenger. The little pockets if fans who did start 'Wenger out' chants were met with glares or sounded out.

[Bumble]

I think the fact the Wenger does divide the fans is the worst thing about this situation. A manager should not divide the fans, He should accept he is doing this. he has to be aware.

[adzzzbatch]

Orbinho

@Orbinho





Calum Chambers committed two fouls today and was shown a yellow card for both of them

:lol: Of course.

[adzzzbatch]

I think the fact the Wenger does divide the fans is the worst thing about this situation. A manager should not divide the fans, He should accept he is doing this. he has to be aware.

I really doubt he cares.

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5wE-Ybr14A&list=UUBTy8j2cPy6zw68godcE7MQ#t=176

:haha:

oh my!

[1_nilto the arsenal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5wE-Ybr14A

You gotta love Claude, but Thai, you are clueless and have so much blind faith its unreal. Arsenal should not be 3 nil down to Stoke ever. We are Arsenal FC and we should challenging for the championship each season, not 4th place. Thai take a season off mate.

[Dein-machine]

Imagine a night out with Letters & Thai - if they are actually seperate people

[adzzzbatch]

Imagine a night out with Letters & Thai - if they are actually seperate people

:lol:

They are the same height :run:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Pathetic.

Awful.

Embarrassing.

This guy needs to fuck off and he needs to do it now. Apparently a shit load of people were shouting abuse at him and shouting wenger out at the platform when the team were getting the train back down.

Good.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I saw Claude at the end of the game just as I went for a gypsy's. It's mildly embarrassing how some people want to be attached to this minor celebrity. Oh, Claude, please shake my hand! You don't know my name but I certainly know yours.

He seems like a good guy and I imagine he'd be the first to spurn any unwanted attention for his comments. However, if we're looking for some sort of official spokesperson for our club, it isn't Claude. He isn't articulate enough.

As for the general feeling of fans during the game, there was booing at half-time, which I don't agree with (if the opposition fans are going to boo your team for 90 mins, how does it help for you to do the same?) There was also, surprisingly, very little disdain directed towards Wenger. The little pockets if fans who did start 'Wenger out' chants were met with glares or sounded out.

I doubt he gives a rats ass about the fans.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

what time does the Letters v SWAYR show start?

:lol:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

http://giant.gfycat.com/PeacefulGroundedCaribou.gif

:blink:

Was that even given as a foul? Can't remember.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Was that even given as a foul? Can't remember.

With a bit of therapy, you'll forget the rest of the match.

[Marc Overmars]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5wE-Ybr14A

You gotta love Claude, but Thai, you are clueless and have so much blind faith its unreal. Arsenal should not be 3 nil down to Stoke ever. We are Arsenal FC and we should challenging for the championship each season, not 4th place. Thai take a season off mate.

While that video is hilarious, it also illustrates one of the saddest things about our current plight - a divide within the fanbase.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Why was Welbeck and Chaz Adam so buddied up when they were warming up anyway......you'd have thought they played for the same team FFS.

If these defeats hurt as much as it does the fans......why on earth doesn't Wenger put an end to the farcically growing list of managers that have his number in the game these days. Mark Hughes is no genius. He's just one of the many ex Manure playing knobs that have gone into management and readily been given a job at the top level.

[A Gunner]

Was that even given as a foul? Can't remember.

Yeah, it was a yellow, but I reckon it should be red. The first ever choke hold I've seen on a pitch.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Hughes' record against Lord Clueless:

Played: 7

Won: 5

Drawn: 2

Lost: 0

And he's done it with 4 different clubs.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Wenger wasn't responsible for any of those losses, it was the weather.

:Letters:

[adzzzbatch]

Yeah, it was a yellow, but I reckon it should be red. The first ever choke hold I've seen on a pitch.

He was just letting him know he was there, Alexis clearly to soft and goes down to easily he should've been booked for diving and the stoke player given a medal.

[Grebbo]

What the fuck was Chambers doing for their first goal? Did he just duck?

Bloody useless the lot of them.

Knew we'd lose but 3-0 at half time, all shit goals, is a joke.

[alexander]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5wE-Ybr14A&list=UUBTy8j2cPy6zw68godcE7MQ#t=176

heh. Im glad i dont let it get to me like that.

[BOBN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5wE-Ybr14A&list=UUBTy8j2cPy6zw68godcE7MQ#t=176
Didnt these faghearts have exactly the same conversation 2 weeks ago? Caricatures now. They love the attention.

And Wenger needs to STFU about Chambers red card. By rights he should have about 4 reds this season, but guess whos not teaching him shyt about game management when on a yellow...

And if Steve Bould can't even step in and do something about that then he needs sacking and all.

[AFC Leveller]

Mertesacker was the worst culprit i thought, really bad performance from him. It started off before the game even kicked off when the captains were shaking hands with the refs and Shawcross walked off without shaking hands with the opposition team's captain, and Mertesacker went after him all smiling asking him to shake hands. That was the wrong attitude from the captin and it was an early sign that we didnt know what the game meant. Then, 19 secondes into the game, he was nowhere to be seen and we conceded the softest of goals. He was Sendeross like throughout and then was at fault again for the 2nd goal leaving his area exposed and about 15 yards between him and Chambers. I thought he had one of his worst games for us and to top it off, everytime Cambers was bullied by Crouch, out captain was nowhere to be seen.

I fucking hate Stoke, their fans and their whole club and losing to them in this manner every season makes me sick. Its a disgrace of the highest order and the manager has got to go now after yet another thrashing.

[Bumble]

We have a tricky few games coming up. Newcastle home who if they play like did yesterday and we play like we did. they wil beat us. Then Liverpool away who are making our form appear scintillating, but I expect 0-0. The qpr home which should be three points as they don't get points away from home then west ham away. Carroll and sakho could really rip our defence to bits at least they would need a new right back for the game.

[fakeyank]

I am tired of us picking consolation 3 points here and there, and then getting 4th. For that clueless manager to leave, we need some drastic results. In fact, 3-2 glossed our shitty performance yesterday.. a 5-0 hammering wouldve got more eyes rolling. Now the fucker can go on with the usual shit of team spirit and togetherness.

[Niall_Quinn]

All clubs go through periods of good form and poor form, it's normal. But few clubs keep on repeating costly mistakes over a period of a decade without taking decisive steps to correct those mistakes. Assuming Wenger doesn't want this stuff to keep happening, the conclusion has to be he has no effective ideas to get what is a team of talented players competing properly in this league. He wants to play his vision of football regardless of what the other teams are doing.

Football has devolved into two camps, one for the richer clubs who try to play a bit of football but make sure to reinforce it with steel, the other for the clubs with less resources who focus mainly on stopping the opposition playing. We are stuck playing a lightweight passing game that ignores all of the shifts that have gone on in the league. We don't have the steel to support the way we want to play, so them more talented teams easily contain us before unleashing their own weapons - the 8-2, 6-3, 6-1 type beating we suffer. We don't have the organisation and mentality to go up against the wreckers who again easily contain us often using methods that would never be permitted in another league but are considered legitimate in England.

We could previously paper the cracks and edge results by having a bit more pace, creativity and stamina than most of teams we faced. But now we've lost the pace, become one dimensional and our fitness levels are suspect due to the horrendous amount of persistent and repeat injuries so many of our players are susceptible to. We all saw Giroud miss that sitter that would have brought is back to level pegging against the orcs. As a supposedly top striker playing for a supposedly top club you can't let those chances go begging. Misses like that change games.

Then you have a German with 100 caps who ducks under a ball as it comes into the penalty box. This when he knows he's up against a twelve foot beanpole who specialises in barging the ball into the goal off his head, his elbow, his arse, by any means. How, after so many games for the club, does an International defender make such a fundamental mistake? How does the full back let a cross go into the box without making a challenge? What are these guys doing on the training pitch? What are they doing in the post match analysis? Do we have a post match analysis?

How does a supposedly world class midfielder receive the ball in space, with time, look up and pass it straight to the opposition thereby turning possession into scrambled defending? Why does a player who works his arse off, running all over the pitch, get the ball, beat two men, look up for a target and find every other team mate static with not a single sod making themselves available for the ball?

Is this how these guys would play in a well drilled, disciplined team? No way. But this is how they play in a team that has no discipline, no tactics, no plan for the opposition. And it's all down to the manager and the coaching staff.

Of course you can lose a game, the chavs demonstrated that. But falling 3 behind against Stoke? Getting mugged by the worst Utd team in decades? Being played off the pitch against bottom of the league Dortmund? Turning a comfortable victory into a shocking defeat against a team of Belgian kids? When we screw up we screw up 100%, we fail completely.

Wehn new players arrive they look great, because they are still carrying what they learned from the normal, functional teams they previoulsy played with. A few months with us and they are done. It's disgraceful how we waste our resources, especially after a decade of thrift. And so we need a new manager and new coaches before the players we already have here are ruined beyond repair.

I don't know how anyone can be suggesting Bould as the manager. He's part of this mess too isn't he? And if he's not, if he's just sitting there letting this shit unfold, then his balls aren't big enough for the manager's job anyway.

I hope Wenger decides to walk. I don't think he will but he'd do us a massive favour if he realised the task is beyond him. A hard thing to admit, no doubt, but if he really loves the club and wants to retain the respect of the fans then he should do what's best for all concerned and hand control over to somebody who can start the long task of rebuilding the foundations on which any half decent team out there is constructed.

He won't go. It'll get nasty and that'll be a shame.

[Maestro]

Unfortunately it will all end badly and further damage the club overall

[Niall_Quinn]

Unfortunately it will all end badly and further damage the club overall

It's often the case that at the end those who have had absolute power are so badly out of touch with everyone around them they simply can't see the downfall coming. With his talk of 3 years until the title it shows he's not really with us any more, he's off in his own little empire. For fans to wait a decade and then be told 3 more years, could he really believe he has 3 years without the fans going into total rebellion?

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FKmL7XEJt7g

:lol:

[Xhaka Can’t]

It doesn't matter what the fans think. We are regarded with contempt at all levels from the Manager to the Owner.

"Thank-you for your interest in our affairs." illustrated the prevailing attitude amongst the Board while Wenger bleats on about letting us talk, "The only thing we can do is let people talk. We live in a society of total opinion but we live off not what we say but what we do, and what we do is on the pitch".

Both of those statements paint us as what we are to the Club - outsiders who should simply part with our money, know our place and suck it up.

Fuck them, and fuck what they've turned this "Club" into.

We want our Arsenal back? We aren't ever getting it back.

[Letters]

It's often the case that at the end those who have had absolute power are so badly out of touch with everyone around them they simply can't see the downfall coming. With his talk of 3 years until the title it shows he's not really with us any more, he's off in his own little empire. For fans to wait a decade and then be told 3 more years, could he really believe he has 3 years without the fans going into total rebellion?

What I still can't get my head around is that last season, and we're only talking 6 months ago, we won the FA Cup and finished with a pretty respectable number of points. It was a good base to build on and Wenger actually seemed to remember his PIN last summer and be signing some proper quality. And yet...
I would suggest that anyone who 'saw this coming' has 20:20 hindsight, the thread about how we'd do this season was pretty upbeat.

Fortunately everyone else is so awful too this year we've still got a pretty good chance of finishing in the top 4. Or maybe not so fortunately, as finishing outside the top 4 is the only way Wenger will ever get sacked.

[Maestro]

It's often the case that at the end those who have had absolute power are so badly out of touch with everyone around them they simply can't see the downfall coming. With his talk of 3 years until the title it shows he's not really with us any more, he's off in his own little empire. For fans to wait a decade and then be told 3 more years, could he really believe he has 3 years without the fans going into total rebellion?

Clear and classic despot symptoms. If it ends up bloody, it's only going to damage the club and make rebuilding even tougher. In addition, can we trust Stan, George and Chips to get the next managerial move a smart one? ......really don't know. We could be doubly fucked, both pitch side and in overall club leadership.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

It doesn't matter what the fans think. We are regarded with contempt at all levels from the Manager to the Owner.

"Thank-you for your interest in our affairs." illustrated the prevailing attitude amongst the Board while Wenger bleats on about letting us talk, "The only thing we can do is let people talk. We live in a society of total opinion but we live off not what we say but what we do, and what we do is on the pitch".

Both of those statements paint us as what we are to the Club - outsiders who should simply part with our money, know our place and suck it up.

Fuck them, and fuck what they've turned this "Club" into.

We want our Arsenal back? We aren't ever getting it back.

I had to laugh not to cry at that! :lol:

[Letters]

Unfortunately we have long since ceased being fans, we're just customers now.
You can go on your little marches and make your little banners if you like but if you're finishing the march at the ground before taking your seat or holding up your banner in the crowd then either way they've got your money so what do they care?
The only way of protesting which will actually hurt them is to withhold your custom. Difficult for those who have already committed to season tickets for this season but they don't have to renew and even this season maybe if people stopped going en masse it would send a message.

[gunnerrrrr]

Has this been posted?

I want him out, but not sure how i feel about this.....fairly out of order:

tDdX16OPxKU

[gunnerrrrr]

He won't go. It'll get nasty and that'll be a shame.
Check the youtube vid i posted......its getting nasty

[Munchies]

That vid is going round on most sites now

hasn't been this bad in a while

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7XKJSd4cpQ&feature=youtu.be

Well done to these guys. Need to be given a medal :good:

[Niall_Quinn]

Has this been posted?

I want him out, but not sure how i feel about this.....fairly out of order:

tDdX16OPxKU

Those aren't fans, they're anti-Arsenal cunts. Leave aside booing the manager, but calling on a player to "get out while you can" shows they don't give a shit about the club, all they care about is the noise coming out of their faces. They're consciously looking to destabilise the player and the by extension the club so no way can they be called fans of the club.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Absolutely brilliant work by those fans. They are the true gooners as they are realistic and want what's best for the club, unlike the apologists who are too scared to voice their opinion.

[Marc Overmars]

They were probably pissed and emotions were raw after the game but what a sad video, I actually felt uncomfortable watching it.

I think his time is up but to acost him like that is just bang out of order.

[selassie]

I dunno...I think that Video is a bit below the belt. There are ways of voicing your opinion and that isn't the right way IMO. I've wanted Wenger gone for a good few years now, even after last season's FA Cup win I was skeptical and this summer has just proved that Wenger doesn't have what it takes.

He's gone beyond the point of no return IMO, he has lost the trust of the support, not everyone but a large percentage of us. We all know the problems and it's not like he hasn't been given time to fix them.

For his sake I desperately hope he resigns, I wouldn't even be against him walking out now, honestly...it feels like he is doing more damage than good.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Will him to leave all you like, but if you don't treat the man with a modicum of respect you're a twat.

The people in that video are twats.

[Niall_Quinn]

Absolutely brilliant work by those fans. They are the true gooners as they are realistic and want what's best for the club, unlike the apologists who are too scared to voice their opinion.

Not quite correct, in fact they are ignorant, stupid cunts. The ignorance doesn't really need to be clarified, just listen to them. The stupidity results from the fact every time they open their gobs they'll encourage genuine fans to stick up for the manager. These twats are probably doing more than anyone bar the board to ensure Wenger stays.

[Letters]

Not quite correct, in fact they are ignorant, stupid cunts. The ignorance doesn't really need to be clarified, just listen to them. The stupidity results from the fact every time they open their gobs they'll encourage genuine fans to stick up for the manager. These twats are probably doing more than anyone bar the board to ensure Wenger stays.
That.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Not quite correct, in fact they are ignorant, stupid cunts. The ignorance doesn't really need to be clarified, just listen to them. The stupidity results from the fact every time they open their gobs they'll encourage genuine fans to stick up for the manager. These twats are probably doing more than anyone bar the board to ensure Wenger stays.

Unfortunately I, and many others, don't feel sorry for him one bit. Why should we? He has constantly lied to us over the years, stolen money (through his salary) and treated fans like shit. He's brought it all on himself.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Wow....that video was fierce. Wenger is good at putting his brave face on though!

[Xhaka Can’t]

Absolutely brilliant work by those fans. They are the true gooners as they are realistic and want what's best for the club, unlike the apologists who are too scared to voice their opinion.

Yeah they are real heroes.

Bravery, passion, alcohol, and a touch of tourettes.

An inspiration to us all.

[AFC Leveller]

That video might be a bit OTT but it echoes the fans frustration and the man needs to act fast. He does what he likes, he lies, he moves the goal posts to suit his agenda and pockets 7million in the process.

IMO he has brought this onto himself and although i wouldnt go that far, those guys in the video have every right to boo him.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

My only real objection is the language used and that is more of a personal thing. I similarly don't like fans swearing in the stands with kids and women around but that's what it is when you go to the football.

The annoyance of some of the negligence shown means I have less room for sympathy. Bemoaning and slagging off the team's defence game after game when you are respsonsible for it being in such dire straits really is the ultimate irony.

It was bad enough placing so much responsibility on young Chambers shoulders but to then go and leave us short in terms of numbers too? Even SWAYR was excited about Chambers so Wenger didn't get so much scrutiny for that decision (though at the time I was dreading the amount of pressure he would inevitably be under when the season got under way) but he can't get away with several iffy decisions.

[mr_brighterside]

telling him he should leave or criticising something in particular is one thing but saying 'get out while you can' and swearing isn't on. neither wenger nor these 'fans' represent me or the arsenal many of us want to bring about.

[topgun]

Absolutely brilliant work by those fans. They are the true gooners as they are realistic and want what's best for the club, unlike the apologists who are too scared to voice their opinion.

Absolute rubbish,true gooners you say,you don't know the meaning of the term if that's what you really think.I want Wenger too move on as much as the next guy but resorting to abusing players and management in that manner it totally out of order and all it will do is stain the image of the club and the club is also bigger than this kind of support. I have seen a lot in my time supporting this club since 1970 and what I have just viewed tonight is totally out of order and unacceptable,and this is from a guy who has never been able to afford a season ticket.

[Ernesto]

Not quite correct, in fact they are ignorant, stupid cunts. The ignorance doesn't really need to be clarified, just listen to them. The stupidity results from the fact every time they open their gobs they'll encourage genuine fans to stick up for the manager. These twats are probably doing more than anyone bar the board to ensure Wenger stays.

The 'Eboue Effect', as it's known in Arsenal circles.

[Ralpheroo72]

:gp:

Will him to leave all you like, but if you don't treat the man with a modicum of respect you're a twat.

The people in that video are twats.

[Gooner23]

I want him to go but certainly won't resort to abuse.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

That video might be a bit OTT but it echoes the fans frustration and the man needs to act fast. He does what he likes, he lies, he moves the goal posts to suit his agenda and pockets 7million in the process.

IMO he has brought this onto himself and although i wouldnt go that far, those guys in the video have every right to boo him.

Spot on.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Absolute rubbish,true gooners you say,you don't know the meaning of the term if that's what you really think.I want Wenger too move on as much as the next guy but resorting to abusing players and management in that manner it totally out of order and all it will do is stain the image of the club and the club is also bigger than this kind of support. I have seen a lot in my time supporting this club since 1970 and what I have just viewed tonight is totally out of order and unacceptable,and this is from a guy who has never been able to afford a season ticket.

Nice of you to sit on your sofa and tell fans that have paid £150+ to travel up to a shithole like stoke only to watch us lose that they aren't real fans.

They can voice their displeasure whatever way they want. Realest gooners around.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Nice of you to sit on your sofa and tell fans that have paid £150+ to travel up to a shithole like stoke only to watch us lose that they aren't real fans.

They can voice their displeasure whatever way they want. Realest gooners around.

No. They aren't.

They're inarticulate disgraceful pondlife.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

:lol: You bad man! You tell 'em from that sofa!

[Xhaka Can’t]

It generally is where I tend to post from ~midnight.

Arsenal have got plenty of my money over the years.

[Power n Glory]

This was always on the cards. I could see this happening a mile off. It was bound to get nasty. When the press leach on to this, he'll get the sympathy vote and the spotlight will be placed back on the fans behaviour. He needs to go before he makes things worse.

[Xhaka Can’t]

No doubt he has to go.

Some people live life with no regrets, but if like most, he does, not calling it a day after the FA Cup win must be his biggest professional regret.

Shouting abuse like that won't change a thing - Arsenal is all about maximising revenue and making money. Taking that away from them is the only power a fan has.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Oh it will. They live in this bubble where they think everything is rosy, the banner caused a stir and now this. They're slowly starting to realise and this might just add a bit of pressure to his job.

[Xhaka Can’t]

A bunch of knobs spouting off changes nothing. You think they are immune to hearing the mood? They aren't. But while the money rolls in, and it is ALL about the money, there is no pressure.

The ticket money will continue to roll in. The bulk has been spent already via ST sales.

However merchandising is down (it has to be because I've told everyone I want nothing Arsenal related for Christmas) and CL money is genuinely at stake if this current malaise linger on.

Not qualifying for the CL will hurt us in the short term and could prove difficult to recover from quickly, but it is the thing most likely to get rid of Wenger.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Arsenal-mania down :lol:

[fakeyank]

What I still can't get my head around is that last season, and we're only talking 6 months ago, we won the FA Cup and finished with a pretty respectable number of points. It was a good base to build on and Wenger actually seemed to remember his PIN last summer and be signing some proper quality. And yet...
I would suggest that anyone who 'saw this coming' has 20:20 hindsight, the thread about how we'd do this season was pretty upbeat.

Fortunately everyone else is so awful too this year we've still got a pretty good chance of finishing in the top 4. Or maybe not so fortunately, as finishing outside the top 4 is the only way Wenger will ever get sacked.

I saw this coming. I think Zimm, I and a few others saw this coming in 2009. The FA Cup was great but Pompey and Wigan won it too... what was not fixed with that cup win was the fact that we are a fundamentally average football team. .It wasnt going to change or is not going to change under Wenger. Every year we thank our lucky stars that others teams are shit... for a club that charges the highest football prices in the Europe, thats a shame.

The only way Wenger is getting the boot is going to be the ugly way.. it shouldnt have happened like this but I dont care about him anymore, nor about his legacy. His 8 million quid a year pay packet will soothe the arse burn... he can piss off from the club!

[fakeyank]

Nice of you to sit on your sofa and tell fans that have paid £150+ to travel up to a shithole like stoke only to watch us lose that they aren't real fans.

They can voice their displeasure whatever way they want. Realest gooners around.

:gp:

[Grebbo]

I saw this coming. I think Zimm, I and a few others saw this coming in 2009.

lol such visionaries!! The world and his wife saw this coming in 2009. Our team has gradually got worse and the competition has quickly got better. Much better.

The argument is whether our decline, and the competitions rapid rise, has more to do with Wenger being a fucktard or the difference in player spending between us and the competition.

I'm a little bit surprised that the fans are seemingly getting angrier and angrier. We've just won the FA Cup and are now seemingly buying a world class player in each summer window. We've reached an inflection point and can now buy a world class player every window instead of selling one. Ozil turning to shit hasn't helped matters though.

Wenger has never been a tactical genius and he definitely needs to revamp the defence. Per is dog shit now and we've needed a DM for donkeys years. But I genuinely believe our form is more because of our injuries than Wenger's incompetence.

[Power n Glory]

We have injury problems because he's incompetent. He's sold defenders during a World Cup year and hasn't bought any experienced ones in. He doesn't make best use of his subs and runs the first team into the ground until we're forced to make a change because of injuries. We'll bring in new tech to show players fatigue levels and he'll just ignore the warning signs. How many times as he said a players in the red but he keeps playing them? Ramsey, Wilshere, Ozil, Giroud and now Sanchez. He keeps playing them until they finally reach breaking point. He never learns!

[Letters]

I saw this coming. I think Zimm, I and a few others saw this coming in 2009.
Bullshit, frankly.

Doom-mongering every single season and saying how we're going to drop out of the top 4 and how rubbish we are doesn't make you Nostradamas when 5 years later we are actually pretty rubbish.

Well, actually, it does make you Nostradamas as he was full of shit too and people who believe in what he wrote just selectively fit world events around vague things he spouted after the fact.

If I sit while someone keeps rolling a die and I keep saying "it'll be a 1" then if, at the 5th attempt, it is actually a 1 I don't get to say "Ha! See? Told you!"

[Power n Glory]

Bullshit, frankly.

Doom-mongering every single season and saying how we're going to drop out of the top 4 and how rubbish we are doesn't make you Nostradamas when 5 years later we are actually pretty rubbish.

Well, actually, it does make you Nostradamas as he was full of shit too and people who believe in what he wrote just selectively fit world events around vague things he spouted after the fact.

If I sit while someone keeps rolling a die and I keep saying "it'll be a 1" then if, at the 5th attempt, it is actually a 1 I don't get to say "Ha! See? Told you!"

We had this discussion last year and I told you it would be even more difficult to win the league. It's not bullshit. It was an in depth discussion. When I said last season was the time to really push for the title, you were talking as if we had more of chance the following season after buying more players. Flawed thinking as said back then because there are no guarantees we'll go from strength to strength. We should have done more last year to build on the momentum and go for the title.

When you keep talking about money bag clubs, did you really think they'd stand still this year? Jose was bound to really go for the jugular in his second year. Man Utd were bound to spend a fortune and City are City. But this was all said last year but you bat it away and then come back with the 'who could foresee' talk.

The January window should have been enough indication. That should have set alarm bells running. We played our only striker and midfield into the ground to then purchase an injured player that couldn't help us when in need. The FA Cup win should have even set some sort of alarm bell off because we went two goals down against Hull! It was close to going to penalties. We won in the end but that season showed that we still have wobbles and can buckle under pressure. Just look at the City, Liverpool and Chelsea drummings.

As usual, you don't notice the massive turd right in the middle of the living room floor until it's stepped on.

[Özim]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5wE-Ybr14A&list=UUBTy8j2cPy6zw68godcE7MQ#t=176

That Ty guy gets behind his team, he gets behind his team, he gets behind his team, he gets behind his team, he gets behind his team, he gets behind his team, he gets behind his team.

[Özim]

This has been coming for a long time, we haven't been progressing, it's been the same old same old every single season, we have a manager who neglects the basic concepts of management.

I don't agree with the abuse but I think it's high time we heard Wenger out chants as he's been taking the p*ss out of the fans for years and really doesn't give a damn what they think or what anyone else thinks.

We've been absolutely awful this season and yet after 3 games it was all going quiet again as if everything was good, people need to look at the big picture and realise we're going nowhere and haven't been for years and won't until Wenger leaves.

People like that Ty guy who basically signify blind faith really need a reality check, they are like mini Wengers with an excuse for everything that goes wrong, it's embarassing.

You can't make excuses for what's going on, it's down to poor management, lack of tactics, lack of planning and inability or refusal to deal with problem areas and accepting 4th place as if it's some sort of major prize for the club.

What was it, worst start for over 30 years this season, that says a lot considering some of the awful teams we've had in that time.

IMO the manager should be incredibly embarrased by his attitude and his neglect of the team.

[Letters]

We had this discussion last year and I told you it would be even more difficult to win the league. It's not bullshit. It was an in depth discussion.
Yes, I remember that discussion. I don't think I was talking as if we had more chance this season but anyway, that's not quite the same as what I'm talking about now. I'm not talking about whether we can win the league this year, that was always going to be difficult but that's not even the issue right now, the issue is can we stay in the top 4 (Answer: probably, but only because most of the other rivals for the top 4 are pretty hopeless too)

But whether we do or not, the point is this year we seem to have taken a major step backwards. We've had 4 or 5 years of being fairly static in terms of our performance. I think a final points total is a pretty good measure and year on year we've actually improved, marginally. And last year we won the FA Cup, finally getting that monkey off our back. We seemed to be making good signings in the summer and yet...we're hopeless. I don't believe anyone who says they foresaw us being this bad this year. The mood in the season prediction thread was pretty upbeat.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3016

And I notice that none of the people now saying "see? told you so!" posted in that thread.

[Letters]

This has been coming for a long time, we haven't been progressing.
I'd agree with the fact that we haven't been progressing, but we haven't been regressing either. We've been stagnating.
But I hoped, as I think many of us did, that the FA Cup could be a springboard to better things. The new financial deals are in place which gives us a new muscle in the transfer window - the Ozil and Sanchez signings are evidence of that. And yet...

I'm struggling to believe that anyone saw this coming - by 'this' I mean us being quite this hopeless.

[Power n Glory]

Yes, I remember that discussion. I don't think I was talking as if we had more chance this season but anyway, that's not quite the same as what I'm talking about now. I'm not talking about whether we can win the league this year, that was always going to be difficult but that's not even the issue right now, the issue is can we stay in the top 4 (Answer: probably, but only because most of the other rivals for the top 4 are pretty hopeless too)

But whether we do or not, the point is this year we seem to have taken a major step backwards. We've had 4 or 5 years of being fairly static in terms of our performance. I think a final points total is a pretty good measure and year on year we've actually improved, marginally. And last year we won the FA Cup, finally getting that monkey off our back. We seemed to be making good signings in the summer and yet...we're hopeless. I don't believe anyone who says they foresaw us being this bad this year. The mood in the season prediction thread was pretty upbeat.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=3016

And I notice that none of the people now saying "see? told you so!" posted in that thread.


And I notice that none of the people now saying "see? told you so!" posted in that thread.

What’s the point of starting that discussion before the window has closed? Depending on who we sign or sell, opinions will change. With our wafer thin backline, it wasn’t hard to see that we’d be in trouble with a couple of injuries. Also, nobody likes a killjoy and I can’t imagine any negative opinions being taken too seriously when everyone else is so optimistic. What’s the point in sparking a debate of how we’ll do before a ball has been kicked? You’ll just accuse the poster of being overly negative as usual.

[Power n Glory]

I'd agree with the fact that we haven't been progressing, but we haven't been regressing either. We've been stagnating.
But I hoped, as I think many of us did, that the FA Cup could be a springboard to better things. The new financial deals are in place which gives us a new muscle in the transfer window - the Ozil and Sanchez signings are evidence of that. And yet...

I'm struggling to believe that anyone saw this coming - by 'this' I mean us being quite this hopeless.

Nobody is shocked by the results. That’s the feeling I get when I talk to other fans. They’re not surprised by how crap we’re doing because they know we have it in us. We’ve had 9 years of this.

[Niall_Quinn]

I doubt anyone would be surprised this season to see us go 3 goals down to the chavs or gypos or utd, we don't learn lessons after all. Going 3 down to Stoke, that's quite surprising. It shows we not only refuse to learn lessons but are intent to fine tune the mismanagement so the outcomes are even worse. We're like a boxer that hangs his chin out. Each knock out makes us reflect on how efficiently we're hanging our chin out, as if perfecting how we expose ourselves will somehow overcome the knock out blows. Other managers must shit and piss themselves laughing when they play us.

[Power n Glory]

I doubt anyone would be surprised this season to see us go 3 goals down to the chavs or gypos or utd, we don't learn lessons after all. Going 3 down to Stoke, that's quite surprising. It shows we not only refuse to learn lessons but are intent to fine tune the mismanagement so the outcomes are even worse. We're like a boxer that hangs his chin out. Each knock out makes us reflect on how efficiently we're hanging our chin out, as if perfecting how we expose ourselves will somehow overcome the knock out blows. Other managers must shit and piss themselves laughing when they play us.

When we’ve thrown away a 4 goal lead to Newcastle, lost 5-1 to Spurs, been smashed 8-2 by United, been kicked out of the Carling Cup by Burnley, lost a Carling Cup final 2-1 to a relegated Birmingham. We went 3 goals down to West Brom and lost 3-2. Why is this one result a shock?

[Letters]

Nobody is shocked by the results. That’s the feeling I get when I talk to other fans. They’re not surprised by how crap we’re doing because they know we have it in us. We’ve had 9 years of this.
You must make an absolute fortune on all the bets you win, I'm surprised the local bookie hasn't barred you.

[Power n Glory]

You must make an absolute fortune on all the bets you win, I'm surprised the local bookie hasn't barred you.

Yes, because I predicted we’d lose over the weekend. :doh: Also, isn’t gambling a sin according to the bible?

[Letters]

Yes, because I predicted we’d lose over the weekend. :doh:
Not in the match thread so we'll just take your word for it :good:

Although, to be fair, most people thought we'd lose. But I'm sure with your laser-like prescience you knew we'd be 3-0 down at half time so were able to bet more specific in your bet and really clean up. Do you still work or are you just on the tropical island these days?

[Power n Glory]

Not in the match thread so we'll just take your word for it :good:

Although, to be fair, most people thought we'd lose. But I'm sure with your laser-like prescience you knew we'd be 3-0 down at half time so were able to bet more specific in your bet and really clean up. Do you still work or are you just on the tropical island these days?

Why are you encouraging gambling when you know it's not right? Fraud!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't think we've taken a step back I think this season is another clear example of stagnation, if you look at the results and the points accumulation compared to the same point two seasons ago its very similar

After fifteen league games in 12/13 we were on 21 points, this time it's 23

We were on ten points in the champions league after five matches, we have ten points now

We haven't gone backwards at all, it's the same shit stick it always was the difference is we know that having more money to spend won't make a fucking bit of difference

[Letters]

Why are you encouraging gambling when you know it's not right? Fraud!

I'm not encouraging it, but with your gift you must be cleaning up.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not encouraging it, but with your gift you must be cleaning up.

Envy isn't right either! Repent!

[Dein-machine]

You like the word "stagnating" - you use it a lot. Did we leave Highbury to stagnate, Do we sign new players with a view to stagnate, Do we pay Wenger £8 mill a year to stagnate - ofcourse the answer to this SHOULD be no, but in your own admission "We've been stagnating". The answer is YES which is NOT acceptable, not for any Gooner inc you.
If we stagnate, we will regress because others will improve. You keep on about points totals, compared to last year it is massive regression, not stagnation. The FA cup has turned out to be the worst thing to happen to us for our future success, is getting the monkey off our back worth another 3 years of "stagnation". I personally would have preffered to lose to Wigan in the semi's & finish 5th on the basis that we may now ave a manager who's team shows progress in relation to competing at the top.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think we've taken a step back I think this season is another clear example of stagnation, if you look at the results and the points accumulation compared to the same point two seasons ago its very similar

After fifteen league games in 12/13 we were on 21 points, this time it's 23

We were on ten points in the champions league after five matches, we have ten points now

We haven't gone backwards at all, it's the same shit stick it always was the difference is we know that having more money to spend won't make a fucking bit of difference
:gp:
You must have the 'gift' too!

[Letters]

You keep on about points totals, compared to last year it is massive regression, not stagnation.
I know. And it's that which I really didn't see coming.
Others are claiming they did but I'm sceptical that anyone really thought we'd be this crap this year.
Meh, whatever.

[Dein-machine]

I don't think we've taken a step back I think this season is another clear example of stagnation, if you look at the results and the points accumulation compared to the same point two seasons ago its very similar

After fifteen league games in 12/13 we were on 21 points, this time it's 23

We were on ten points in the champions league after five matches, we have ten points now

We haven't gone backwards at all, it's the same shit stick it always was the difference is we know that having more money to spend won't make a fucking bit of difference

Stagnation or Regression - doesn't matter, simply not good enough from a guy paid £8 mill with a promise to fans that we are there to compete.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

I don't think we've taken a step back I think this season is another clear example of stagnation, if you look at the results and the points accumulation compared to the same point two seasons ago its very similar

After fifteen league games in 12/13 we were on 21 points, this time it's 23

We were on ten points in the champions league after five matches, we have ten points now

We haven't gone backwards at all, it's the same shit stick it always was the difference is we know that having more money to spend won't make a fucking bit of difference

:lol: Why are you choosing 2 seasons ago and not last season? Is it to make your beloved Wenger look better?

Let's compare it to last season shall we.

After 15 games last season: 35 points
After 15 games this season: 23 points

Clear regression.

Wenger out.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:lol: Why are you choosing 2 seasons ago and not last season? Is it to make your beloved Wenger look better?

Let's compare it to last season shall we.

After 15 games last season: 35 points
After 15 games this season: 23 points

Clear regression.

Wenger out.

My post was a response to Mr Letters who seems to argue that we are doing inexplicably shit this season, where as I'm pointing out its just another example of Groundhog season.

I find it interesting that you can think this is in anyway a defence of Wenger, I don't use the word stagnation as a defence I use it to say there is no difference between not spending and spending with this man....we aren't getting better.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Stagnation or Regression - doesn't matter, simply not good enough from a guy paid £8 mill with a promise to fans that we are there to compete.

And what part of my message makes you believe I think it is acceptable, I am making the point that this isn't an extraordinary season it's just another turd sandwich....and despite what the media believe the fans don't want Wenger out because of the season we are having, it's because we have seen it one too many times before.

I find it odd that people are jumping on my comments even though I agree with them about the manager, getting a bit squirrely you need to either fuck your girlfriends or take a cold shower

[Dein-machine]

I know. And it's that which I really didn't see coming.
Others are claiming they did but I'm sceptical that anyone really thought we'd be this crap this year.
Meh, whatever.

I think some people saw the FA cup win, the new finances in place & the Sanchez signing as the dawn of a new era. For others the new era needed a manager with a modern approach to the game & someone who would use the new finances properly, for the good of the team. This was the biggest concern for the Wenger doubters because of history not because of the "gift" & here we are. A defensive mess, no defensive midfielder of any substance & relying on Sanchez so heavily that we will burn him out.
We still have the FA cup win, we still have decent finances, we still have Sanchez BUT ---- we still have Wenger & therefore nothing changes.

[Marc Overmars]

You don't even have to look at points, we can all see on the pitch just how far standards have fallen. Even last season when we were winning consistently we were boring as fuck most of the time, most wins were by the odd goal or 2. Effective yes but unrecognisable and rarely convincing.

We are debating over various degrees of shit. It doesn't matter guys, it's still shit.

[Power n Glory]

I know. And it's that which I really didn't see coming.
Others are claiming they did but I'm sceptical that anyone really thought we'd be this crap this year.
Meh, whatever.

At least tell me you could see the potential defensive injury crisis after failing to sign another established CB. You can’t be that blind.

[Dein-machine]

And what part of my message makes you believe I think it is acceptable, I am making the point that this isn't an extraordinary season it's just another turd sandwich....and despite what the media believe the fans don't want Wenger out because of the season we are having, it's because we have seen it one too many times before.

I find it odd that people are jumping on my comments even though I agree with them about the manager, getting a bit squirrely you need to either fuck your girlfriends or take a cold shower

It is an extraordinary season because THIS year we were told we would compete on & off the pitch. Our finances meant we could spend big. We bought Sanchez, excellent - but then made the annual Wenger catastrophe by not buying a DM & better defensive cover.
It is not acceptable for someone on Wenger wage & with his experience to make these errors every year especially when you cannot blame finances. It is gross negligence.
You cannot say "its just another turd sandwich" when you gave the chef money for smoked salmon.

[selassie]

lol such visionaries!! The world and his wife saw this coming in 2009. Our team has gradually got worse and the competition has quickly got better. Much better.

The argument is whether our decline, and the competitions rapid rise, has more to do with Wenger being a fucktard or the difference in player spending between us and the competition.

I'm a little bit surprised that the fans are seemingly getting angrier and angrier. We've just won the FA Cup and are now seemingly buying a world class player in each summer window. We've reached an inflection point and can now buy a world class player every window instead of selling one. Ozil turning to shit hasn't helped matters though.

Wenger has never been a tactical genius and he definitely needs to revamp the defence. Per is dog shit now and we've needed a DM for donkeys years. But I genuinely believe our form is more because of our injuries than Wenger's incompetence.

Hmm...it's debatable whether this team is much worse than previous teams, in fact this is probably our strongest squad for quite some time excusing the lack of quality and depth at the back, that's Wenger's problem, he chose to go into the season with gaping holes in Central Defence.

Money is no longer an issue, you said it yourself, the arguments are now firmly placed on Wenger's head, he's unable to deliver, PERIOD! He has everything he needs now...no time to hide behind FFP or Chelsea or City, it's all there for him to succeed!

I'm not at all surprised that Fans are frustrated, after promising so much post FA Cup win we have delivered so little, in fact we have gone backwards even though he has spent a load of money in the wrong areas?! Same old...same old...

Our poor form is a combination of many things and the fact that we went into the season so badly equipped has pretty much left us in this position.

Wenger keeps telling us the defence is the problem, too right it is, it's a Defence he created and then dismantled depth way...it's mindblowing.

[selassie]

At least tell me you could see the potential defensive injury crisis after failing to sign another established CB. You can’t be that blind.

Yep, also the fact that Wenger has failed to address DM or Striker position, how many windows does he need to rectify these positions? :rolleyes:

[Marc Overmars]

At least tell me you could see the potential defensive injury crisis after failing to sign another established CB. You can’t be that blind.

He didn't want to kill Chambers.

Although he's doing a pretty good job of killing him anyway. The kid wouldn't even be playing this much if he was still at Southampton because it's obvious he's not ready.

Thrown under a bus by a careless manager.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It is an extraordinary season because THIS year we were told we would compete on & off the pitch. Our finances meant we could spend big. We bought Sanchez, excellent - but then made the annual Wenger catastrophe by not buying a DM & better defensive cover.
It is not acceptable for someone on Wenger wage & with his experience to make these errors every year especially when you cannot blame finances. It is gross negligence.
You cannot say "its just another turd sandwich" when you gave the chef money for smoked salmon.


If the chef is shit, no matter how good the ingredients are and how much he has to spend on them, the result is still going to be a dogs dinner...so no not extraordinary at all.

[Letters]

My post was a response to Mr Letters who seems to argue that we are doing inexplicably shit this season, where as I'm pointing out its just another example of Groundhog season.
Interesting. I'd forgotten how crap we were two years ago at the start of the season. That was the season though when Van Persie had just left - who had dragged us kicking and screaming into the top 4 almost single handedly the previous season. Last summer we'd ended on a high with the FA Cup win and while we lost a bit of depth in defence we signed some decent players and one outstanding one in Sanchez, we didn't lose any real superstars (arguably because we don't have any, but still). I don't think there was any reason to think we'd be quite this crap this year.

[Dein-machine]

To sum up where we are with Wenger, this morning a colleague of mine ( who is a Utd fan ) said " After that 1st half, the problem for you lot is that if you had Stoke again next Saturday it could & probably would happen again".
We can have all the in depth discussions we like on this board but even those that don't give a shit about us know the simple truth.

[Dein-machine]

If the chef is shit, no matter how good the ingredients are and how much he has to spend on them, the result is still going to be a dogs dinner...so no not extraordinary at all.

Yes, but would he still be in a job?

[Özim]

I'd agree with the fact that we haven't been progressing, but we haven't been regressing either. We've been stagnating.
But I hoped, as I think many of us did, that the FA Cup could be a springboard to better things. The new financial deals are in place which gives us a new muscle in the transfer window - the Ozil and Sanchez signings are evidence of that. And yet...

I'm struggling to believe that anyone saw this coming - by 'this' I mean us being quite this hopeless.

Personally speaking I envisaged us eventually dropping away as you can't keep being complacent and keep getting away with it year after year, eventually it catches up with you.

If you don't try and progress the likelyness is eventually you'll be overtaken by teams who are trying to.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Yes, but would he still be in a job?

No but then again if he can't make something palatable out of cheaper ingredients probably shouldn't have been given the keys to the pantry in the first place.
We can blame injuries, or lack of quality as much as we like but we know that this guy can't deliver no matter how much he was given to spend

[Power n Glory]

No but then again if he can't make something palatable out of cheaper ingredients probably shouldn't have been given the keys to the pantry in the first place.
We can blame injuries, or lack of quality as much as we like but we know that this guy can't deliver no matter how much he was given to spend

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKoq8dJCMAE0Sxp.jpg

:lol: Good analogy.

Why keep going to a restaurant with a dodgy chef that serves up weekly dishes of food poisoning? Notice in the pic how the chairs are empty? It’s getting to the point where the Board and fans have to take some sort of action.

[Letters]

At least tell me you could see the potential defensive injury crisis after failing to sign another established CB. You can’t be that blind.
There was clearly a risk of that. What I really don't understand is why we're so crap going forward, so slow and laboured. We have plenty of quality in midfield and up front. Ramsey is suddenly rubbish again, Ozil is patchy at best, only Sanchez is doing the biz.

[Letters]

If you don't try and progress the likelyness is eventually you'll be overtaken by teams who are trying to.
But we haven't been :shrug:

EDIT: Liverpool are an example of a club who are 'trying to overtake us'. Have they managed to? Last year plenty of people spent all season lauding Rodgers, some of us were suggesting that there were some factors in Liverpool's success such as not being in Europe and having one player who was in ridiculous form. They lost said player and now they're in Europe and they've been even crapper than us, astonishingly. Spurs too have spent plenty of money trying to overtake us and never succeeded.

[Gooner23]

I definitely couldn't see us being so shite this season. I wouldn't go as far as to say I expected us to progress, but I was certainly hopeful.

The lack of cover at CB was a glaring mistake that everyone bar Wenger could see. But apart from that we had a lot going for us in terms of momentum from the FA Cup and signing some good players in the summer. This is our strongest squad we've had for many years, even with the injuries, and the fact it is so badly underperforming only points to one person.

Oh Wenget, what have you done.

[Dein-machine]

No but then again if he can't make something palatable out of cheaper ingredients probably shouldn't have been given the keys to the pantry in the first place.
We can blame injuries, or lack of quality as much as we like but we know that this guy can't deliver no matter how much he was given to spend

Couldn't agree more although I think in this case the Chef certainly deserved the pantry keys in his early years. Forget all the obvious things regarding money, arrogamce, tactics etc - there isnt a job in the world that you can do better at 60 than when you were 40.

[Globalgunner]

Everything has been said and repeated ad nauseum. Letters doesn't like the fact that quite a few of us told anyone who could listen that Wenger in an inadequate manager who more often than not gets lucky and scrambles over the line rather than marches over. You can check the old Goonersweb forum, the arguments to and against Wenger are no different to what we have today, only that the pro Wenger believers were more vocal back then. Many of us told you that we would NOT progress as a club under Wenger simply because he is too dogmatic, inflexible and more than anything does not want to compete. Most top managers are driven by the will to win, but that isn't the case with Wenger. He makes up his own parameters for success and tenders the final judgement that whatever he achieves is the highest possible for the club. He is a cowardly man who has found the perfect oasis for never do wells under a board of ineptitude.
Screaming and shouting at the sidelines when things are going wrong does not show a will to win only a frustration that the game he played out in his head is not materialising on the pitch. If you do not plan for a win as we mostly do. It is most likely you wont.

[Dein-machine]

Everything has been said and repeated ad nauseum. Letters doesn't like the fact that quite a few of us told anyone who could listen that Wenger in an inadequate manager who more often than not gets lucky and scrambles over the line rather than marches over. You can check the old Goonersweb forum, the arguments to and against Wenger are no different to what we have today, only that the pro Wenger believers were more vocal back then. Many of us told you that we would NOT progress as a club under Wenger simply because he is too dogmatic, inflexible and more than anything does not want to compete. Most top managers are driven by the will to win, but that isn't the case with Wenger. He makes up his own parameters for success and tenders the final judgement that whatever he achieves is the highest possible for the club. He is a cowardly man who has found the perfect oasis for never do wells under a board of ineptitude.
Screaming and shouting at the sidelines when things are going wrong does not show a will to win only a frustration that the game he played out in his head is not materialising on the pitch. If you do not plan for a win as we mostly do. It is most likely you wont.

"He is a cowardly man who has found the perfect oasis for never do wells under a board of ineptitude"

This is simply "Sentence of the year" on GW. Its so good it could be from a Shakespeare play - oh & by the way every bit of it 100% on the button.

Global for PM.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

There was clearly a risk of that. What I really don't understand is why we're so crap going forward, so slow and laboured. We have plenty of quality in midfield and up front. Ramsey is suddenly rubbish again, Ozil is patchy at best, only Sanchez is doing the biz.

:haha: HELLO?! His first name begins with A and his surname begins with W.

[Letters]

:haha: HELLO?! His first name begins with A and his surname begins with W.

Andy Williams, writer of "Moon River"? :unsure:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think even when we were winning things Wenger was stubborn, dogmatic etc and in many ways I think it was a barrier preventing us from being more dominant.

I think most people knew deep down that he wasn't able to take us forward. Since 2007/2008 I was convinced Wenger didnt have it in him to win us the top prizes, for me the title should have been ours that year but we evaporated, it wasnt injuries it was just a total inability to find form.

A lot of the pro Wenger argument is based on loyalty to a man who took us to extraordinary feats a long time ago but is perpetually hitting his head against a wall.

As much as he frustrated me, for me I lost faith in him totally after the 8-2 game at United since that day I'm constantly doing what the board should be doing, looking at managers at other clubs and wondering who could do a better job.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Andy Williams, writer of "Moon River"? :unsure:

The reason we are crap going forward is because the ball isn't getting to our attacking players quick enough, we don't do enough to prevent the second ball and engineer breaks from central midfield

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Andy Williams, writer of "Moon River"? :unsure:

Just say it wetters. I know it really really hurts and you can't bring yourself to say it but just admit it, it's all wengers fault.

[Bumble]

We are a money bags club. You look at the wage bill compared to nearly all of Europe and we will always be in the top level of clubs. I was confident going into the season but worried about lack of defensive options. We are defensively weak, Mert has been poor and we should be looking for a first choice CB not a 3rd or 4th choice one. Especially if they knew about Koscielny injury.

Why has Wenger changed approached though? We used to be built around big strong quick players. But the transition from Vieira to Fabregas seems to have got us into this position. Wenger doesn't need to get up to date with modern football because our successful teams would still win the league now. Buy players that fit that mould and go with it.

[Dein-machine]

Just say it wetters. I know it really really hurts and you can't bring yourself to say it but just admit it, it's all wengers fault.

You've got more chance of Wenger admitting its all his fault.
The arrogance, dog-eared determination to blame all but himself, unrivalled master of his little kingdom, surrounded by yes men ( Bould & MS ) - is it any wonder Letters won't have a word said against his hero - he's modeled himself on him.

[Letters]

Just say it wetters. I know it really really hurts and you can't bring yourself to say it but just admit it, it's all wengers fault.
All Wenger's fault? So the players don't take any responsibility?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

All Wenger's fault? So the players don't take any responsibility?

President Harry S Truman had a placard on his Oval Office desk that says the buck stops here

The players are performing badly and aren't taking responsibility, but ultimately when this is happening who is taking control of the situation and trying to address it.

We are told in no uncertain terms that Wenger is the generalissimo when it comes to football aspects of the club, so yes ultimate power ultimate responsibility when it goes tits up

[Letters]

President Harry S Truman had a placard on his Oval Office desk that says the buck stops here

The players are performing badly and aren't taking responsibility, but ultimately when this is happening who is taking control of the situation and trying to address it.

OK...and who employs Wenger...?

[Power n Glory]

There was clearly a risk of that. What I really don't understand is why we're so crap going forward, so slow and laboured. We have plenty of quality in midfield and up front. Ramsey is suddenly rubbish again, Ozil is patchy at best, only Sanchez is doing the biz.

Our build up play has been like this for seasons.The difference is the defence being out of sorts. Swap Ramsey's form for Sanchez's and we're still looking at a team being carried by one individual on attack with dodgy strikers leading the line.

[Dein-machine]

All Wenger's fault? So the players don't take any responsibility?

If you had to race Oxford in the boat race & you chose to put mediocre rowers in the boat instead of the obvious quality required, who's to blame for the loss?

[Letters]

If you had to race Oxford in the boat race & you chose to put mediocre rowers in the boat instead of the obvious quality required, who's to blame for the loss?

Our 'rowers' are a damn sight better than Stoke's...

[Globalgunner]

If you had to race Oxford in the boat race & you chose to put mediocre rowers in the boat instead of the obvious quality required, who's to blame for the loss?

In our case it would be the Thames that swarmed all over the boat and held it back.
Every time after a bad loss Wenger starts bleating at the defence. Disgraceful from a manager...it was the same last year after all those maulings we recieved. How do you go about blaming the players you bought trained and instructed for repeated bad performances. Our players have no discipline or game nous, to break up counter-attacks. Our most experienced CB is a beanpole with no physicality, who cannot run, cannot jump and rarely scores goals for someone so tall. Who is responsible for this mess?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

OK...and who employs Wenger...?

Well yes I don't think you will get any argument from me that a do nothing board should be held to account for giving Wenger free reign.

Can blame Kroenke all you like, but Wenger was in total unquestioned control long before he became majority shareholder

[Power n Glory]

OK...and who employs Wenger...?

Should they have sacked him after the FA Cup win?

[Letters]

Should they have sacked him after the FA Cup win?

Well no, but they should sack him now.

[Özim]

OK...and who employs Wenger...?

The thing is we can't do much about the ownership of the club, if we had a manager who was more intent on winning however this would probably be a non-issue, he's go the money to spend it's his fault he doesn't spend it correctly.

No owner is going to complain if you go out on a limb a spend money and win, they might if you do and don't deliver....seems Wenger is too risk averse, he's happy with 4th place and achievement he seems to value just as much as any of the major trophies.

[Letters]

'we' can't do much about anything.

[Power n Glory]

Well no, but they should sack him now.

In the middle of the season when we're only 3 points away from the top 4?

[Dein-machine]

Our 'rowers' are a damn sight better than Stoke's...

Stoke are not Oxford.
On a normal calm river, on a lovely sunny day our rowers should out-row Stoke, but on a freezing cold day with turbulent water the strength of Stoke can prevail. Therefore we need rowers able to adapt to this situation whereas we go out on to turbulent waters with our fair weather rowers every week.

[Dein-machine]

In the middle of the season when we're only 3 points away from the top 4?

F--k me you two - you're confusing me know. PnG's trying to stop Letter's from sacking Wenger - I need a lie down.

[Letters]

In the middle of the season when we're only 3 points away from the top 4?

I was going to edit my post but I anticipated a reply, so...
I'm not a big fan of the idea of us sacking a manager mid-season. We certainly don't want to turn into Spurs, hopping from manager to manager with increasing desperation. I'm beginning to think though there's very little left to lose. We need to start preparing for a post-Wenger Arsenal at least and there's very little sign the board are even doing that.


My more general point was you can't sensibly say Wenger is entirely to blame. As HCZ said, the buck stops at the top of the tree and Wenger is, ultimately, just an employee. I'd say he should take the majority of the blame but I don't absolve the players totally and the board should be getting more stick about persisting with him than they do.

[Power n Glory]

F--k me you two - you're confusing me know. PnG's trying to stop Letter's from sacking Wenger - I need a lie down.

No, that’s not my argument. I’m saying it wouldn’t make sense for the Board to sack Wenger in the middle of the season when we’re not that far off the top 4 or before the season started after an FA Cup run. They have to get their timing right and that’s why he’s still in the job. Wenger has hid behind excuses for years and lumped the blame on to the Board with his constant excuses. Now that he’s been given money to spend and they’ve made it clear that they won’t restrict him, he’s been left pretty exposed. His popularity amongst the fans is at an all-time low and at the end of this season would be the best time for them to act.

[selassie]

We're stuck with him until the end of his contract, I don't even think he would get fired if we failed to finish top 4.

“We live in a world where everybody has an opinion and we have to live with that. At the end of the day, somebody always has to make a decision and that’s the guy who is responsible.”

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger has always said he'd leave if he didn't feel he could contribute any more to the club. But the problem is his role extends far beyond what happens on the pitch. So when he scrapes 4th and the cash registers ring up another £30mill, in light of his extended role, he's contributed so he doesn't leave. Our next manager needs a much more clearly defined role that is focused 100% on the team and nothing else. We're in this shit because Wenger has about 15 jobs at the club, a by-product of a crappy board who invested nothing, contributed nothing and happily handed over their responsibilities to one man. If that man then becomes the weak link you're fucked. The board will need to find it's balls (somehow) to dig us out of this before 2017. Somebody needs to step up. We have Silent Stan, Ivan and the old school tie brigade. I don't hold out much hope. It's pretty grim to be in a position where failing to qualify for the CL might be the only thing that can break the cycle. But if we drop out of that elite circle then we might have a hell of a time getting back into it considering half our badge kissers will probably want to fuck off.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

You've got more chance of Wenger admitting its all his fault.
The arrogance, dog-eared determination to blame all but himself, unrivalled master of his little kingdom, surrounded by yes men ( Bould & MS ) - is it any wonder Letters won't have a word said against his hero - he's modeled himself on him.

:haha: :haha: :haha: Brilliant.

[Power n Glory]

I was going to edit my post but I anticipated a reply, so...
I'm not a big fan of the idea of us sacking a manager mid-season. We certainly don't want to turn into Spurs, hopping from manager to manager with increasing desperation. I'm beginning to think though there's very little left to lose. We need to start preparing for a post-Wenger Arsenal at least and there's very little sign the board are even doing that.


My more general point was you can't sensibly say Wenger is entirely to blame. As HCZ said, the buck stops at the top of the tree and Wenger is, ultimately, just an employee. I'd say he should take the majority of the blame but I don't absolve the players totally and the board should be getting more stick about persisting with him than they do.

I think Wenger has done a good job of keeping himself out of the limelight with the way he shifts the blame. He’s used the oil barren clubs success as an excuse for years to mask his failing. If he’d have been sacked before this season kicked off, I think a lot of fans would have been taking a swipe at the Board. That’s no excuse for their cowardice though. They should have been putting him in check, but we really don’t know what’s been said behind closed doors. In football, the Board only get recognised when there is money to spend or managers get sacked. They could have sacked him earlier, but this Emirates project is still pretty fresh and we’ve only just secured new sponsorship deals. Would we have secured such good deals if we had just sacked our manager with a long serving history of a Top 4 finish? They must have taken that into consideration as well. Rock the boat later once the checks have cleared. That’s my theory. If they remain idle after this point then they deserve all the criticism they get. But I can understand why they wouldn’t rock the boat prior to this season.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

All Wenger's fault?

YES!

A weak and mediocre mentality that has seeped through every player and inch of the club.

Defenders fucking up every week? TRAIN AND ORGANISE THEM!
Youngsters fucking up every week? DON'T THROW THEM IN THE DEEP END AGAINST DORTMUND AND STOKE AWAY!
Get battered by top teams? SET UP TIGHT AND STOP PRETENDING LIKE WE'RE PLAYING YEOVIL!
Have to play a left back at centre back? BUY A FUCKING CENTRE BACK!
Get outfought by other teams - BUY A TOUGH DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER!
Rue fixture list? DON'T GO INTO A 50 GAME SEASON WITH 6 DEFENDERS!

THE BUCK STOPS WITH HIM!!!

[Letters]

THE BUCK STOPS WITH HIM!!!
He's an employee, so no it doesn't. If he's not doing his job then the board should have replaced him.
Trouble is, of course, he is doing his job, as they define it. And that is entirely their fault.
:tiphat:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

YES!

A weak and mediocre mentality that has seeped through every player and inch of the club.

Defenders fucking up every week? TRAIN AND ORGANISE THEM!
Youngsters fucking up every week? DON'T THROW THEM IN THE DEEP END AGAINST DORTMUND AND STOKE AWAY!
Get battered by top teams? SET UP TIGHT AND STOP PRETENDING LIKE WE'RE PLAYING YEOVIL!
Have to play a left back at centre back? BUY A FUCKING CENTRE BACK!
Get outfought by other teams - BUY A TOUGH DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER!
Rue fixture list? DON'T GO INTO A 50 GAME SEASON WITH 6 DEFENDERS!

THE BUCK STOPS WITH HIM!!!

The point is though who is holding him to account for not doing this?

[Globalgunner]

He's an employee, so no it doesn't. If he's not doing his job then the board should have replaced him.
Trouble is, of course, he is doing his job, as they define it. And that is entirely their fault.
:tiphat:

Straw argument
Nobody here is absolving the board for Wengers lunacy
However a sane, thorough, analytical and self motivated manager would have thrived, rather than stagnated under this same board.
Our indolent board should be a managers dream....The right manager,mind.
If we need to change 1 of the 2 the manager needs to be out on his arse.

You are always fond of the Hitler analogy so I will ask you this
Do you blame the people of Germany for not getting rid of Hitler?.
for the pogrom of the jews , who do you blame. Hitler or the voting public of Germany

[Ernesto]

I find it hugely ironic how Lineker, of all people, is defending Wenger. It's because of his ridiculous stunt at the end of that edition of MOTD that our manager is the subject of such diatribe from opposing fans (case in point- the Stoke City Neanderthals giving it the "let's all do the Wenger".on countless occasions)

[selassie]

Wenger has always said he'd leave if he didn't feel he could contribute any more to the club. But the problem is his role extends far beyond what happens on the pitch. So when he scrapes 4th and the cash registers ring up another £30mill, in light of his extended role, he's contributed so he doesn't leave. Our next manager needs a much more clearly defined role that is focused 100% on the team and nothing else. We're in this shit because Wenger has about 15 jobs at the club, a by-product of a crappy board who invested nothing, contributed nothing and happily handed over their responsibilities to one man. If that man then becomes the weak link you're fucked. The board will need to find it's balls (somehow) to dig us out of this before 2017. Somebody needs to step up. We have Silent Stan, Ivan and the old school tie brigade. I don't hold out much hope. It's pretty grim to be in a position where failing to qualify for the CL might be the only thing that can break the cycle. But if we drop out of that elite circle then we might have a hell of a time getting back into it considering half our badge kissers will probably want to fuck off.

Yeah I am totally with you. Another issue is that Wenger's idea of contributing/delivering and the general fans idea of him contributing/delivering are two different things. Wenger sets his own goals and if he meets them then we are all expected to be satisfied.

He still hides behind "Chelsea" and money, he recently used that excuse when they beat us 2-0.

I do think a lot of his roles and responsibilities outside of managing the football team have been taken away from him over the past few years which is a good thing, the problem is like you stated he is not been held to task/accountable for his performance as Football Manager. We have absolutely nobody on the board who calls out his performance and I don't see that changing anytime soon. In fact the likes of Keswick and Gazidis just make comments such as "We have absolute faith in Arsene when it comes to the Technical side of Managing the team, Arsene is the expert in this area". That's all we hear...

[Globalgunner]

I find it hugely ironic how Lineker, of all people, is defending Wenger. It's because of his ridiculous stunt at the end of that edition of MOTD that our manager is the subject of such diatribe from opposing fans (case in point- the Stoke City Neanderthals giving it the "let's all do the Wenger".on countless occasions)

Its a well known fact that Spuds would all love us to keep Wenger. If he stays another 10 years, The mighty Spurs will eventually stumble on a manager who can elevate them above us.

[Letters]

Nobody here is absolving the board for Wengers lunacy
There are people saying that Wenger is ENTIRELY to blame, so yes they are.

You are always fond of the Hitler analogy so I will ask you this
Do you blame the people of Germany for not getting rid of Hitler?.
for the pogrom of the jews , who do you blame. Hitler or the voting public of Germany
That's a bloody terrible analogy. The German people didn't have the power to remove Hitler any more than we have the power right now to remove our government. We have an opportunity to next May of course but even then it's a collective decision in which, with FPTP, most people won't get what they want.
The Arsenal board have the power to remove Wenger any time they choose.

[Niall_Quinn]

Do you blame the people of Germany for not getting rid of Hitler?.
for the pogrom of the jews , who do you blame. Hitler or the voting public of Germany

That's an easy one. The British, Dutch and American banks were the main culprits, the German people second, Hitler third.

Or: The fans, the board, Wenger.

If you don't fund and follow a dictator then the dictator is just some ridiculous guy stomping around.

[Globalgunner]

There are people saying that Wenger is ENTIRELY to blame, so yes they are.

That's a bloody terrible analogy. The German people didn't have the power to remove Hitler any more than we have the power right now to remove our government. We have an opportunity to next May of course but even then it's a collective decision in which, with FPTP, most people won't get what they want.
The Arsenal board have the power to remove Wenger any time they choose.

The board do not select the team or buy the players. Do not wait until the 70th minute to make changes and dont neglect glaring holes in the squad

I compared the situation to Hitler because you are wont to use the analogy whenever Wenger is being criticised here.

The analogy you need to see is that this board is as helpless as the German people. They have the power but are scared stiff of using it.

In the UK you have a funny sort of democracy that doesn't allow you to vote out unpopular prime ministers because all they need to do is win in Grantham or wherever

[Letters]

The board do not select the team or buy the players. Do not wait until the 70th minute to make changes and dont neglect glaring holes in the squad
No, but they continue to employ the man who does and that is entirely in their control.


I compared the situation to Hitler because you are wont to use the analogy whenever Wenger is being criticised here.

I literally can't remember ever doing that, but even if I have occasioanlly I certainly don't do it 'whenever' Wenger is criticised :unsure:

[Globalgunner]

No, but they continue to employ the man who does and that is entirely in their control.



I literally can't remember ever doing that, but even if I have occasioanlly I certainly don't do it 'whenever' Wenger is criticised :unsure:

Yoiu should be too young to have systemic memory loss. You cant remember sarcastically saying on a recent match thread that Wenger " the worst person in history since Hitler"

[PGFC]

No, but they continue to employ the man who does and that is entirely in their control.



I literally can't remember ever doing that, but even if I have occasioanlly I certainly don't do it 'whenever' Wenger is criticised :unsure:

Will you forgive Wenger if he says sorry though...

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Yoiu should be too young to have systemic memory loss. You cant remember sarcastically saying on a recent match thread that Wenger " the worst person in history since Hitler"

:lol: Wwwetters is a lost cause. Poor soul.

[Letters]

Yoiu should be too young to have systemic memory loss. You cant remember sarcastically saying on a recent match thread that Wenger " the worst person in history since Hitler"

Oh FFS :lol:
I might have said it as a joke once, you made it sound like I post it every time Wenger gets the slightest bit of criticism.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Straw argument
Nobody here is absolving the board for Wengers lunacy
However a sane, thorough, analytical and self motivated manager would have thrived, rather than stagnated under this same board.
Our indolent board should be a managers dream....The right manager,mind.
If we need to change 1 of the 2 the manager needs to be out on his arse.

You are always fond of the Hitler analogy so I will ask you this
Do you blame the people of Germany for not getting rid of Hitler?.
for the pogrom of the jews , who do you blame. Hitler or the voting public of Germany

I know the question wasnt directed at me but you blame both

The Nazis didnt seize power they were elected democratically on a far right anti-semetic platform, Wenger disbanded democracy as an election promise....the German people willingly gave their consent and are tacitly responsible for everything afterwards that happened.

I don't think any manager can prosper long term without proper checks or balances, it's not healthy for a football manager to be answerable to no one

[Letters]

IWenger disbanded democracy as an election promise....
Don't you start!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Don't you start!

Ha Ha sorry couldn't resist it
Arsene Wenger über alles
Über alles in die welt

And just to be even more of a pain in the arse

Hey letters, did you know that up until his death the Catholic Church used to celebrate Hitlers birthday?

[fakeyank]

Bullshit, frankly.

Doom-mongering every single season and saying how we're going to drop out of the top 4 and how rubbish we are doesn't make you Nostradamas when 5 years later we are actually pretty rubbish.

Well, actually, it does make you Nostradamas as he was full of shit too and people who believe in what he wrote just selectively fit world events around vague things he spouted after the fact.

If I sit while someone keeps rolling a die and I keep saying "it'll be a 1" then if, at the 5th attempt, it is actually a 1 I don't get to say "Ha! See? Told you!"

How is it bullshit when it was clearly mentioned how tactically lacking he was? The ONLY excuse you and many on here had was that Wenger didnt have money to spend... that excuse has been thrown out of the window this season because we have the money, so whats the problem? The bumbling idiot of a manager tbf..

As for dropping out of the top 4, I never cared about that shit top 4 position. All I cared was for my team to give a F*** and play good football... both of which stopped since 2009.

You cannot honestly deny that what is happening was not predicted. Not the exact way of course coz only good fake lord in the sky can make predictions like that. But the fact that Wenger will shown up for the fraud he is, that was predicted. Whether you want to give credit for it or twist words and roll die's is up to you. It doesnt matter however.. the bigger picture is that the cancer in our club has been detected and people are talking about removing it.

[Globalgunner]

I know the question wasnt directed at me but you blame both

The Nazis didnt seize power they were elected democratically on a far right anti-semetic platform, Wenger disbanded democracy as an election promise....the German people willingly gave their consent and are tacitly responsible for everything afterwards that happened.

I don't think any manager can prosper long term without proper checks or balances, it's not healthy for a football manager to be answerable to no one

The German people voted Hitler in yes. But once he was installed he exterminated all opposition and declared himself ruler for life.

But enough with talk of Devil spawn

Lets talk about football. We have a shit manager. Do we or Don`t we. He doesn't learn doesn't take criticism and wants to stay in charge for life. and he`s sent Letters out to exterminate all opposition. What do we do?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The German people voted Hitler in yes. But once he was installed he exterminated all opposition and declared himself ruler for life.

But enough with talk of Devil spawn

Lets talk about football. We have a shit manager. Do we or Don`t we. He doesn't learn doesn't take criticism and wants to stay in charge for life. and he`s sent Letters out to exterminate all opposition. What do we do?


Well like I said he basically said a vote for him would be one to end democracy, and he would become dictator

The German people liked that idea just as much as they approved of persecuting Jewish people

Don't get me wrong it wasn't just in Germany, in Slovakia (yes this country did exist during the war until it was reabsorbed into Czechoslovakia) the government paid the Nazis to take their Jews away. The country had a non aggression pact with Hitler and were at the time under no pressure to expel their Jews.

[rodders]

We swallowed the no cash marking time scenario but now that we are over this things are a lot worse. Arsene has also marked time tactically ,subjected us to serial humiliation but still does not get it. Many will understand now why our best players can't wait to leave. Suspect Sanchez will be the next.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

To be fair on Letters he's more playing devils advocate because we are in a situation on this board, where basically anything that is said that is not unequivocally detrimental to Wenger is pounced upon.

I've already been denounced as a Wenger lover earlier for a post that could in no way be seen as a defence of the manager, and its by people who have become too firmly entrenched to the point where not only dissenting opinion is shouted down, but nuanced opinion is as well.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We swallowed the no cash marking time scenario but now that we are over this things are a lot worse. Arsene has also marked time tactically ,subjected us to serial humiliation but still does not get it. Many will understand now why our best players can't wait to leave. Suspect Sanchez will be the next.

It's a big worry

[Letters]

How is it bullshit when it was clearly mentioned how tactically lacking he was? The ONLY excuse you and many on here had was that Wenger didnt have money to spend... that excuse has been thrown out of the window this season because we have the money, so whats the problem? The bumbling idiot of a manager tbf.
His lack of tactical nous has never been in dispute.

And this is the same 'bumbling idiot' who at this stage last year had us top of the league.

Last year:
P15 W11 D2 L2 F30 A11

This year:
P15 W6 D5 L4 F24 A18

We might not have been playing scintillating football last year but we were getting results. I don't believe anyone saw us being quite this crap this season. What the hell has happened to Ramsey for one thing? It's the level of regression that I don't think people saw coming as much as they're making out.

[Letters]

The German people voted Hitler in yes. But once he was installed he exterminated all opposition and declared himself ruler for life.
Me and him have so much in common :cool:

[Globalgunner]

If you're not a Wenger lover, its a recent conversion. No matter, we need more people to see their way clear to what needs to be done to get this club back to where it ought to be.

[fakeyank]

His lack of tactical nous has never been in dispute.

And this is the same 'bumbling idiot' who at this stage last year had us top of the league.

Last year:
P15 W11 D2 L2 F30 A11

This year:
P15 W6 D5 L4 F24 A18

We might not have been playing scintillating football last year but we were getting results. I don't believe anyone saw us being quite this crap this season. What the hell has happened to Ramsey for one thing? It's the level of regression that I don't think people saw coming as much as they're making out.

How does top of the table help when almost everyone predicted that we would fold in March when we had the run of big games?? If you arrange an arm wrestling match between me and a bunch of 3 years olds for the month of December and January, and then against 35 year olds in February, it is obvious that I will come out unscathed against the 3 year olds. My title credentials are against the big boys and I should be measured for my results when they matter.

As for how we have folded this year, I agree that very few would have predicted that. What was predicted was that Wenger's tactical nous will be found out and he will run out of the money excuse soon. To what extent he is being shown up is a pleasant surprise really...

[fakeyank]

Me and him have so much in common :cool:

You both are of the same height :lol:

[Letters]

If you're not a Wenger lover, its a recent conversion. No matter, we need more people to see their way clear to what needs to be done to get this club back to where it ought to be.

I don't know whether you're talking to me but the trouble with this board is that there is no room for any grey areas.

A poster either loves Wenger and can see no wrong in anything he does, or they hate Wenger, think he's the biggest c*** in the universe and everything he says and does is massively stupid.

No-one seems to be allowed to have an opinion anywhere in between. If someone opines anything other than the 2nd of of the two above opinions then they're instantly lampooned and said to be in the former camp. It's completely ridiculous.

Yes, I will defend Wenger when twats shout abuse at him or when opposition fans call him a paedo. If I do so then apparently I immediately he should be our manager forever and can do no wrong. :shrug:

[Letters]

You both are of the same height :lol:

:angry:

:p

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If you're not a Wenger lover, its a recent conversion. No matter, we need more people to see their way clear to what needs to be done to get this club back to where it ought to be.

That does sound somewhat ominous I don't think it's correct for someone else to be told what their opinion is
Myself personally the manager hasn't sat easy with me for a long time, but I've always floated between he's got to go and the more resigned well he's here to stay no matter what I want so let's hope he changes. Lets not forget that for all the grumbling against Wenger it's only in the last couple of weeks that its really gained any media traction.

I called for Wenger to go at the beginning of the 2011/2012 season but I think it's fair to say I was in the minority, at the end of the season I thought ok we've finished third despite a disastrous sunmer, we have actually beaten some big sides and we could sign some decent players...so I'm not utterly convinced but the only choice I have is to let things play out and hope for the best...and my patience has obviously not been rewarded. And logically there is no way for me to believe that it ever will.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

A poster either loves Wenger and can see no wrong in anything he does, or they hate Wenger, think he's the biggest c*** in the universe and everything he says and does is massively stupid.

No-one seems to be allowed to have an opinion anywhere in between. If someone opines anything other than the 2nd of of the two above opinions then they're instantly lampooned

This is where I do agree with you

I do wonder what the cause of this, I put it down to entrenchment....I'm not lying when i now say I worry about him staying here till 2017, I worry what it will do to the club and the fan base and in respect of losing players like Sanchez to clubs with frankly more ambition. And yet despite all this I'm able to countenance another persons point of view.

[Letters]

How does top of the table help when almost everyone predicted that we would fold in March when we had the run of big games?? If you arrange an arm wrestling match between me and a bunch of 3 years olds for the month of December and January, and then against 35 year olds in February, it is obvious that I will come out unscathed against the 3 year olds. My title credentials are against the big boys and I should be measured for my results when they matter.
Behave.

Our fixtures thus far have been marginally harder this year but not so much as to explain our ridiculously poor form. The 'difficult' fixtures in the first 15 games last year:
Spurs Home (W)
Liverpool Home (W)
Man Yoo away (L, as always :lol:)
Everton Home (D)

This year:

Everton Away (D)
Man City Home (D)
Spurs Home (D)
Chelsea Away (L, as always :lol:)
ManYoo Home (L :ilt:)

So they're worse. And this year we're not even beating the 3 year olds that often. You can't just say "oh yeah, that's because Wenger's crap" when this is the same Wenger whose side last year were, at this stage at least, doing better than anyone. If he's that crap why weren't we crap then too?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The reason we drop points to wanky opposition that we didnt last season is because we played more conservatively, it's the same reason why although we didnt win we were unbeaten at home against all the big sides in the league, but we were bummed away from home because of a combination of being caught high up the pitch when we didnt need to be and a slow undisciplined central midfield. The kind of mistakes that won't get punished against the smaller sides
This season we have the same lack of discipline in defence and a completely unsettled back four.

[fakeyank]

Behave.

Our fixtures thus far have been marginally harder this year but not so much as to explain our ridiculously poor form. The 'difficult' fixtures in the first 15 games last year:
Spurs Home (W)
Liverpool Home (W)
Man Yoo away (L, as always :lol:)
Everton Home (D)

This year:

Everton Away (D)
Man City Home (D)
Spurs Home (D)
Chelsea Away (L, as always :lol:)
ManYoo Home (L :ilt:)

So they're worse. And this year we're not even beating the 3 year olds that often. You can't just say "oh yeah, that's because Wenger's crap" when this is the same Wenger whose side last year were, at this stage at least, doing better than anyone. If he's that crap why weren't we crap then too?

I see where the disconnect is... you think that many thought that we were NOT crap last year. Despite the fact that we were top of the table, there were a fair few who said we were crap (which was the truth for a club of Arsenal's size). As for why are we crappier this year? Its simple... our defense sucks goat balls! Last year, we were lucky to get so many games out of Kos Per and Sagna. This year, Kos has been injured, Sagna is gone and Per is shite without Kos, so you can see how horrible we are.

It is baffling though how bad we are. The slide that Wenger started many years ago was going to go down this path but the quickness of the slide has me surprised.

[rodders]

The question must be not whether Arsene should go but whether anybody seriously thinks that things will improve whilst he stays.

[Letters]

The question must be not whether Arsene should go but whether anybody seriously thinks that things will improve whilst he stays.

A related question, of course, is will things improve after he goes.

[Marc Overmars]

A related question, of course, is will things improve after he goes.

I'm not sure but it's a question I look forward to finding out the answer to.

Right now all I'm looking forward to is the day he leaves.

[mr_brighterside]

A related question, of course, is will things improve after he goes.

presuming things can only get worse is one the myths that has kept wenger in his job for far too many years. things clearly can get worse but we have been also rans for so long now he really should go, fed up of us being the top 6 whipping boys.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Probably one of the worst weeks ever to be an Arsenal fan. Completely abysmal performance followed up by that absolutely sickening video

The game was just pure dross ...... shades of some of our humiliations last year. No tactics, no plan and just no defence. To be three nil down against fucking Stoke of all teams, all terrible goals and letting shithouses like Walters score is inexcusable. Everyone knew that a DM and defensive cover was essential yet nothing was done about it. Not that it would have mattered ........ I'm seriously coming to conclusion that we could have had Maldini and Nesta in their primes in our defence and we'd still find a way to be abject defensively. There seems to be zero emphasis of defending in our tactics ......... that's if we have any. Also to blood Bellerin against Stoke away ... :doh:

Wenger really has to go ....... these are basic things which can be resolved without spending money. I mean, there are going to be teams going to places like Stoke with man for man worst players and who won't be humiliated as badly as were on Saturday. Thanks for the memories Arsene, but it's time we went for someone who can bring our football more into the current PL era.


As for the video, I'm not sure any semi decent person who calls themselves an Arsenal fan can defend that or not voice complete horror at it. Fair enough protest during the match, hold up banners and boo to your heart's content but football ends once you leave the stadium. Unless you're some Iain Huntley type figure, no one deserves to be abused like that as they're walking to catch a train. It's just embarrassing and makes our fans the laughing stock of the football world. At least when the Utd fans abused Moyes (with the plane stunt), they were attacking a guy who didn't have any history with the club - like him or hate him, but Wenger should be treated with absolute respect for his years of work for the club and some of the great stuff he's accomplished. In fact, I would hate to see any Arsenal manager, past or future, treated like that. It makes our fans look like some idiotic Italian ultras, the sort who throw rocks at their own team buses and threaten players if they lose a game. How exactly is that going to increase the appeal of our club to potential future stars?

As NQ said, ironically all it does is just makes more people sympathetic towards Wenger.

[Globalgunner]

Probably one of the worst weeks ever to be an Arsenal fan. Completely abysmal performance followed up by that absolutely sickening video

The game was just pure dross ...... shades of some of our humiliations last year. No tactics, no plan and just no defence. To be three nil down against fucking Stoke of all teams, all terrible goals and letting shithouses like Walters score is inexcusable. Everyone knew that a DM and defensive cover was essential yet nothing was done about it. Not that it would have mattered ........ I'm seriously coming to conclusion that we could have had Maldini and Nesta in their primes in our defence and we'd still find a way to be abject defensively. There seems to be zero emphasis of defending in our tactics ......... that's if we have any. Also to blood Bellerin against Stoke away ... :doh:

Wenger really has to go ....... these are basic things which can be resolved without spending money. I mean, there are going to be teams going to places like Stoke with man for man worst players and who won't be humiliated as badly as were on Saturday. Thanks for the memories Arsene, but it's time we went for someone who can bring our football more into the current PL era.


As for the video, I'm not sure any semi decent person who calls themselves an Arsenal fan can defend that or not voice complete horror at it. Fair enough protest during the match, hold up banners and boo to your heart's content but football ends once you leave the stadium. Unless you're some Iain Huntley type figure, no one deserves to be abused like that as they're walking to catch a train. It's just embarrassing and makes our fans the laughing stock of the football world. At least when the Utd fans abused Moyes (with the plane stunt), they were attacking a guy who didn't have any history with the club - like him or hate him, but Wenger should be treated with absolute respect for his years of work for the club and some of the great stuff he's accomplished. In fact, I would hate to see any Arsenal manager, past or future, treated like that. It makes our fans look like some idiotic Italian ultras, the sort who throw rocks at their own team buses and threaten players if they lose a game. How exactly is that going to increase the appeal of our club to potential future stars?

As NQ said, ironically all it does is just makes more people sympathetic towards Wenger.

I've seen the video. at the station. Nothing sickening about it. No missiles thrown, no threatening moves. People voicing their discontent about a pathetic regime that glorifies mediocrity. You people need to get a grip. What are they supposed to say. Can you please, kindly let go of your clammy grip on our club?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't like it, lying in wait for a manager and the team at the station just so you can shout abuse at him is ignorant mob mentality, if spurs or Chelsea fans behaved in such a way we would be quick enough to say something.

I think the boos on their own arent the problem it's shouting "fuck off" at him which is disgusting.

I don't like how he's managing the club, I think he's become too insulated and arrogant but nothing he's done deserves personal abuse. He's the same age as my dad and I wouldn't take kindly to people doing that to him.

[fakeyank]

I've seen the video. at the station. Nothing sickening about it. No missiles thrown, no threatening moves. People voicing their discontent about a pathetic regime that glorifies mediocrity. You people need to get a grip. What are they supposed to say. Can you please, kindly let go of your clammy grip on our club?

:gp:

Cant agree more. He was booed and told to piss off, so what? You get 8 million quid a year to shield your thick self with that. When we were successful, he got the plaudits outside the stadium... so when he flops so badly, he needs to know the sentiments outside football as well. Some of the people are making this 'abuse' seem like Wenger was kicked in the nuts and shoveled with shit!

This pansy attitude is what got us here in the first place. People need to man the fuck up tbh..

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Swearing at and hectoring someone is the breakdown of discourse

I don't get why his salary is relevant here....I've got an old guy in my office who doesn't do his job properly and that can be frustrating, am I by that token within my rights to start swearing at him?

[Globalgunner]

Swearing at and hectoring someone is the breakdown of discourse

I don't get why his salary is relevant here....I've got an old guy in my office who doesn't do his job properly and that can be frustrating, am I by that token within my rights to start swearing at him?

That would get you sacked. However if you were asked to a meeting to troubleshoot your company problems would you say, You didnt see it . Everything is honky Dory here.. managers get abused, they know it goes with the territory. You seem to believe its up to him, when and how he leaves. He got to hear what he needed to hear. We are not his personal chemistry set to tinker with at leisure while he seeks to turn charcoal to diamonds.

[fakeyank]

Swearing at and hectoring someone is the breakdown of discourse

I don't get why his salary is relevant here....I've got an old guy in my office who doesn't do his job properly and that can be frustrating, am I by that token within my rights to start swearing at him?

Yes, you can swear at him IF after repeated chances to fix his actions, he still doesnt do his job properly. And to top the frustration off, he also has the blessing of the CEO to do whatever he likes.

[Globalgunner]

Swearing at and hectoring someone is the breakdown of discourse

I don't get why his salary is relevant here....I've got an old guy in my office who doesn't do his job properly and that can be frustrating, am I by that token within my rights to start swearing at him?

You are the same person not so long ago who was berating someone on here that everything miserable in his life he blames on Wenger
Some crap along the lines of......If he lost his toothbrush ...somehow its Wengers fault
You give it large here about how Wenger should be respected. Yet have no tolerance for other posters opinions. Now you want Wenger to go. politely, of course. Less than 2 months ago you were a rabid Wenger Belieber

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That would get you sacked. However if you were asked to a meeting to troubleshoot your company problems would you say, You didnt see it . Everything is honky Dory here.. managers get abused, they know it goes with the territory. You seem to believe its up to him, when and how he leaves. He got to hear what he needed to hear. We are not his personal chemistry set to tinker with at leisure while he seeks to turn charcoal to diamonds.

Again it's not the sentiment it's the personal invective I disapprove of

Actually even if they'd just chanted "Wenger out" ok not how I'd go about things but still

But telling him to fuck off and calling him a cunt? Sorry not acceptable

[alexander]

I find it difficult, this abuse at the station. Personally, I think the time for him to move on has come, for various reasons. But, to abuse an old man on a train platform isnt really on. Its not like he wants to destroy the club he has transformed from middle of the road. Its a difficult situation all around. I cant see him leaving on his own accord, equally cant see the board sacking him. who know where we go from here, but all this is tearing the club apart.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You are the same person not so long ago who was berating someone on here that everything miserable in his life he blames on Wenger
Some crap along the lines of......If he lost his toothbrush ...somehow its Wengers fault
You give it large here about how Wenger should be respected. Yet have no tolerance for other posters opinions. Now you want Wenger to go. politely, of course. Less than 2 months ago you were a rabid Wenger Belieber

Really?

Again I love being told what my opinions are

But honestly don't take my word for it, feel free to go ahead and look up anything that equates to me being a Wenger cheerleader. I think the most positive thing I've said about him is that although I have no faith he can take the club forward he will in no doubt leave it in a better position than it was when he became manager

As for me accusing someone of blaming everything on Wenger, I don't recall saying such a thing (of course that doesn't mean I didnt say it, as I do enjoy winding up some of the posters on here)

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I find it difficult, this abuse at the station. Personally, I think the time for him to move on has come, for various reasons. But, to abuse an old man on a train platform isnt really on. Its not like he wants to destroy the club he has transformed from middle of the road. Its a difficult situation all around. I cant see him leaving on his own accord, equally cant see the board sacking him. who know where we go from here, but all this is tearing the club apart.

I totally agree with you

He has to go, but hounding people out is the rule of mob mentality

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't like it, lying in wait for a manager and the team at the station just so you can shout abuse at him is ignorant mob mentality, if spurs or Chelsea fans behaved in such a way we would be quick enough to say something.

I think the boos on their own arent the problem it's shouting "fuck off" at him which is disgusting.

I don't like how he's managing the club, I think he's become too insulated and arrogant but nothing he's done deserves personal abuse. He's the same age as my dad and I wouldn't take kindly to people doing that to him.

Leave aside the football, a bunch of yobs baying at an OAP? It's not particularly big or clever, is it?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Leave aside the football, a bunch of yobs baying at an OAP? It's not particularly big or clever, is it?

Precisely

[Niall_Quinn]

:gp:

Cant agree more. He was booed and told to piss off, so what? You get 8 million quid a year to shield your thick self with that. When we were successful, he got the plaudits outside the stadium... so when he flops so badly, he needs to know the sentiments outside football as well. Some of the people are making this 'abuse' seem like Wenger was kicked in the nuts and shoveled with shit!

This pansy attitude is what got us here in the first place. People need to man the fuck up tbh..

You've convinced me. I'm off to push around some old bloke and play the big man. Might smack him around a bit, steal his walking stick... mainly manly stuff like that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Again I love being told what my opinions are

You've come to the right place.

[alexander]

Leave aside the football, a bunch of yobs baying at an OAP? It's not particularly big or clever, is it?

too right.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Why are you encouraging gambling when you know it's not right? Fraud!

It isn't gambling if you know its going to happen.

[Power n Glory]

I don't know whether you're talking to me but the trouble with this board is that there is no room for any grey areas.

A poster either loves Wenger and can see no wrong in anything he does, or they hate Wenger, think he's the biggest c*** in the universe and everything he says and does is massively stupid.

No-one seems to be allowed to have an opinion anywhere in between. If someone opines anything other than the 2nd of of the two above opinions then they're instantly lampooned and said to be in the former camp. It's completely ridiculous.

Yes, I will defend Wenger when twats shout abuse at him or when opposition fans call him a paedo. If I do so then apparently I immediately he should be our manager forever and can do no wrong. :shrug:

That's not it. The problem stems from your convenient amnesia. It's been 9 years running and your still surprised by the results. It's fine if you're a bit slow to spot the problem but it's really annoying when you start telling others that they couldn't foresee the problems we'd have this season. Especially when it's been repeated over and over again to you but you take none of it on board.

Comments like this take the biscuit.

Doom-mongering every single season and saying how we're going to drop out of the top 4 and how rubbish we are doesn't make you Nostradamas when 5 years later we are actually pretty rubbish.

We've won one trophy in 9 years so I think the 'doom mongers' have been getting it right for quite a long time. We've not turned shit in one season, we've been below par for a very long time. Even with the FA Cup win, we were on the end of some very humbling results.

[fakeyank]

You've convinced me. I'm off to push around some old bloke and play the big man. Might smack him around a bit, steal his walking stick... mainly manly stuff like that.

Never said we need to get physical but sure, go ahead.

[Globalgunner]

You've convinced me. I'm off to push around some old bloke and play the big man. Might smack him around a bit, steal his walking stick... mainly manly stuff like that.

You're right . He`s an old man, lost his marbles. lost his eyesight. lost his sense of perspective. On the other hand, Plays beachball, scores diving headers, picks up an 8m cheque every year....and he`s got the right to screw up for another 2 years at least. he`s 8 years younger than SAF FFS! Old man my nose.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

:gp:

Cant agree more. He was booed and told to piss off, so what? You get 8 million quid a year to shield your thick self with that. When we were successful, he got the plaudits outside the stadium... so when he flops so badly, he needs to know the sentiments outside football as well. Some of the people are making this 'abuse' seem like Wenger was kicked in the nuts and shoveled with shit!

This pansy attitude is what got us here in the first place. People need to man the fuck up tbh..

What does his salary have to do with anything though? It doesn't matter if he's earning 8 million or £100 a year, people deserve to be treated with a minimum amount of respect no matter who they are. Nor does spending more money, entitle you to act like a colossal dickhead. Imagine if some thug tried to use that logic stream as a defence in a court case......... "I'm sorry I assaulted that guy but because he's earning 8 million a year and I spent £200 to see him, it should be fine"

I'm with H_C_Z here. I would have understood (though been slightly uncomfortable) with general booing of him & the team at the station but that level of personal abuse and vitriol is bang out of order. He's not child murderer FFS, just a guy who's not performing at his job. I'm sure Wenger's big and experienced to not let it affect him but it makes some of the fans looks like completely morons, not to mention gives the media another excuse to bash our club and we've already given them plenty of reasons to do so this season with our shit performances.

Some people take football way too seriously at times.

[Power n Glory]

I don't like it, lying in wait for a manager and the team at the station just so you can shout abuse at him is ignorant mob mentality, if spurs or Chelsea fans behaved in such a way we would be quick enough to say something.

I think the boos on their own arent the problem it's shouting "fuck off" at him which is disgusting.

I don't like how he's managing the club, I think he's become too insulated and arrogant but nothing he's done deserves personal abuse. He's the same age as my dad and I wouldn't take kindly to people doing that to him.

Arsenal fans are no different from every other fan. That ignorant mob mentality/ 'tribalism' is common in football and among fans. I've seen it on here where former players get abuse even though they've served us well. Refs get abuse, other fans get abuse for supporting another club...what do you expect when Wenger's stock starts to fall? It's not nice but we've seen worse in football.

[Power n Glory]

What does his salary have to do with anything though? It doesn't matter if he's earning 8 million or £100 a year, people deserve to be treated with a minimum amount of respect no matter who they are. Nor does spending more money, entitle you to act like a colossal dickhead. Imagine if some thug tried to use that logic stream as a defence in a court case......... "I'm sorry I assaulted that guy but because he's earning 8 million a year and I spent £200 to see him, it should be fine"

I'm with H_C_Z here. I would have understood (though been slightly uncomfortable) with general booing of him & the team at the station but that level of personal abuse and vitriol is bang out of order. He's not child murderer FFS, just a guy who's not performing at his job. I'm sure Wenger's big and experienced to not let it affect him but it makes some of the fans looks like completely morons, not to mention gives the media another excuse to bash our club and we've already given them plenty of reasons to do so this season with our shit performances.

Some people take football way too seriously at times.

Try remembering that the next time the ref makes a decision your unhappy with. Or the next time Sanogo steps on to the pitch. Or when Diaby signs a new contract.

[Niall_Quinn]

We're watching the slow decline and downfall of the manager who built the best team ever to pull on the red and white jersey. The guy who masterminded exhilarating football the like of which we won't see again in the cynical, "destroyer", "don't like it up 'em", world of moneyball. The chavs couldn't buy it, the gypos can't buy it, even Madrid and Barca can't buy it. We were spoiled rotten back then, ever the opposition fans used to clap us off the pitch FFS! Remember that. We're also seeing the end of a guy who took Arsenal from relative England bound obscurity and made us a name on the world stage. A guy who transformed the English game from piss up and hackathon to a professional arena for athletes. The guy in charge when the Invincibles went 49 games without the opposition laying a glove on us, until a creature from the gutter who is worshipped by the media dragged us back into the slime by means that were the antithesis of the sporting ideal.

Those are Wenger's achievements and they will never be repeated, ever, by anyone no matter how much cash is thrown at it. But now he's burnt out, out of touch, living on past glories, call it what you want. It's time for him to go and most agree on that. Who do you think will suffer most if we wash our hands of our own history and start screaming abuse at the man? Do you think the board will suffer? Do they even give a fuck about the one or two or three decades we've sat through following this club? Were they even there at the highest of high points? Do they understand what achievement beyond the balance sheet is, like a fan naturally does? For Wenger, his name is in the history books no matter how much the screamers want to trash it. Yeah sure, the fans paid the money, they turned up, they cheered (through the good times at least). But it was the manager and the players who had to deliver, and they did. Spectacularly. And we all lapped it up. If Wenger can't repeat the unrepeatable it doesn't mean he has lost what he already achieved. But if the fans try to reduce him to nothing, humiliate him, what can they say about there own legacy? Yes, I was there in the good time and I cheered. Yes, I was there in the bad times too and I doorstepped the manager and screamed abuse in his face. Maybe for some fans they don't really care about self respect. But most will.

Wenger is in his last days, could be a few days, could be as many as a thousand. However long, he'll leave with his dignity and achievements intact. Let's see what state the fans are in and how their own dignity measures up when the announcement finally arrives that the manager is stepping down. Let's see if we, the guys who have sat here for the one, two, three decades have any sort of legacy left or if we've just turned into that guy who wants it today because he knows how much he paid. We hate the club down the road for having that attitude, don't we?

[Niall_Quinn]

Try remembering that the next time the ref makes a decision your unhappy with. Or the next time Sanogo steps on to the pitch. Or when Diaby signs a new contract.

Nobody screams abuse at Sanogo do they? Hopefully not.

Refs are cunts of course.

[Niall_Quinn]

But if the fans try to reduce him to nothing, humiliate him, what can they say about there own legacy?

You said "there" :haha:

[fakeyank]

What does his salary have to do with anything though? It doesn't matter if he's earning 8 million or £100 a year, people deserve to be treated with a minimum amount of respect no matter who they are. Nor does spending more money, entitle you to act like a colossal dickhead. Imagine if some thug tried to use that logic stream as a defence in a court case......... "I'm sorry I assaulted that guy but because he's earning 8 million a year and I spent £200 to see him, it should be fine"

I'm with H_C_Z here. I would have understood (though been slightly uncomfortable) with general booing of him & the team at the station but that level of personal abuse and vitriol is bang out of order. He's not child murderer FFS, just a guy who's not performing at his job. I'm sure Wenger's big and experienced to not let it affect him but it makes some of the fans looks like completely morons, not to mention gives the media another excuse to bash our club and we've already given them plenty of reasons to do so this season with our shit performances.

Some people take football way too seriously at times.

I dont know why you and HCZ are focusing on the salary part so much. I never said that his 8 million quid pay entitles him to abuse, what I said was that 8 million quid check should soothe his thick skin. Heck, you give me that money to me and call me a cunt all day long... I'll be just fine!
And I dont get why he cant be booed or called a cunt... we call the refs, opposition players, our own players, teachers, bosses etc cunts everyday. Just because Wenger did something back in the middle ages doesnt mean he cannot even be booed. He is no God (not that there is a God) and to me, he is just another failed manager who needs to fuck off. His past glories has bought him a LOT of time.. and he is way past his welcome now, so if booing and calling him a cunt makes him rethink his ability as a manager, then I am all for it.

And let's not pretend that video was some sort of war crime. It was a video of an unsuccessful manager getting booed while boarding a train. That is normal in football. If you are looking more into it, then its your fault!

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Try remembering that the next time the ref makes a decision your unhappy with. Or the next time Sanogo steps on to the pitch. Or when Diaby signs a new contract.

But I would never in a million years say anything like that towards Diaby or Sanogo. I think both of them like Wenger, have no future at the club however I would never scream similar abuse right in their faces if I saw them across the street. That's just yobbish behaviour.

I didn't like what happened to Eboue and I don't like this now.

You're right in your previous post about mob mentality/tribalism being inherent in football, however I think we should certainly have standards on how we treat one of our own.

[Xhaka Can’t]

:gp:

Cant agree more. He was booed and told to piss off, so what? You get 8 million quid a year to shield your thick self with that. When we were successful, he got the plaudits outside the stadium... so when he flops so badly, he needs to know the sentiments outside football as well. Some of the people are making this 'abuse' seem like Wenger was kicked in the nuts and shoveled with shit!

This pansy attitude is what got us here in the first place. People need to man the fuck up tbh..

You seriously think those bellends were manning the fuck up? :haha:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I'm not sure how treating him in that way is a good thing, the only way I can see it being so for those that desperately want him out are that he make think it's just not worth the abuse but I would deem that particularly unlikely.

However more likely is that this paints the people that think Wenger should go and go now in a particular bad light. It strikes me that the media interpretation of all this is only going to be that wanting Wenger out is unreasonable, irrational and just from those that really can't control themselves. All this does is shows those people as the ones to be ignored and I can't understand how those with legitimate grievances and reasonings for Wenger to go (and there are quite a few of those!) would think this is good.

[Letters]

We're watching the slow decline and downfall of the manager who built the best team ever to pull on the red and white jersey. The guy who masterminded exhilarating football the like of which we won't see again in the cynical, "destroyer", "don't like it up 'em", world of moneyball. The chavs couldn't buy it, the gypos can't buy it, even Madrid and Barca can't buy it. We were spoiled rotten back then, ever the opposition fans used to clap us off the pitch FFS! Remember that. We're also seeing the end of a guy who took Arsenal from relative England bound obscurity and made us a name on the world stage. A guy who transformed the English game from piss up and hackathon to a professional arena for athletes. The guy in charge when the Invincibles went 49 games without the opposition laying a glove on us, until a creature from the gutter who is worshipped by the media dragged us back into the slime by means that were the antithesis of the sporting ideal.

Those are Wenger's achievements and they will never be repeated, ever, by anyone no matter how much cash is thrown at it. But now he's burnt out, out of touch, living on past glories, call it what you want. It's time for him to go and most agree on that. Who do you think will suffer most if we wash our hands of our own history and start screaming abuse at the man? Do you think the board will suffer? Do they even give a fuck about the one or two or three decades we've sat through following this club? Were they even there at the highest of high points? Do they understand what achievement beyond the balance sheet is, like a fan naturally does? For Wenger, his name is in the history books no matter how much the screamers want to trash it. Yeah sure, the fans paid the money, they turned up, they cheered (through the good times at least). But it was the manager and the players who had to deliver, and they did. Spectacularly. And we all lapped it up. If Wenger can't repeat the unrepeatable it doesn't mean he has lost what he already achieved. But if the fans try to reduce him to nothing, humiliate him, what can they say about there own legacy? Yes, I was there in the good time and I cheered. Yes, I was there in the bad times too and I doorstepped the manager and screamed abuse in his face. Maybe for some fans they don't really care about self respect. But most will.

Wenger is in his last days, could be a few days, could be as many as a thousand. However long, he'll leave with his dignity and achievements intact. Let's see what state the fans are in and how their own dignity measures up when the announcement finally arrives that the manager is stepping down. Let's see if we, the guys who have sat here for the one, two, three decades have any sort of legacy left or if we've just turned into that guy who wants it today because he knows how much he paid. We hate the club down the road for having that attitude, don't we?
:gp:

[Letters]

I see where the disconnect is... you think that many thought that we were NOT crap last year. Despite the fact that we were top of the table, there were a fair few who said we were crap

I don't recall many saying that at this stage last year.
If they had said that it would have been a pretty weird thing to say, we had 35 points at this stage last year. Only one fewer than Chelsea have now, I don't see many people calling them crap.


The slide that Wenger started many years ago was going to go down this path but the quickness of the slide has me surprised.
I don't know what you mean by slide. There really hasn't been one. Had there been a consistent slide we'd have long since been in mid-table or worse.
In fact last season was the culmination of 5 years of incremental improvements (in terms of points at least), it's the sharp decline this year which has baffled me (although not PnG who saw it coming but just didn't tell anyone till now, well done him for definitely predicting it secretly though).
You and HCZ are right about the defence though, that's been a perennial problem which for once seemed to be sorted last year but has now gone back to crap again.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I dont know why you and HCZ are focusing on the salary part so much. I never said that his 8 million quid pay entitles him to abuse, what I said was that 8 million quid check should soothe his thick skin. Heck, you give me that money to me and call me a cunt all day long... I'll be just fine!
And I dont get why he cant be booed or called a cunt... we call the refs, opposition players, our own players, teachers, bosses etc cunts everyday. Just because Wenger did something back in the middle ages doesnt mean he cannot even be booed. He is no God (not that there is a God) and to me, he is just another failed manager who needs tko fuck off. His past glories has bought him a LOT of time.. and he is way past his welcome now, so if booing and calling him a cunt makes him rethink his ability as a manager, then I am all for it.

And let's not pretend that video was some sort of war crime. It was a video of an unsuccessful manager getting booed while boarding a train. That is normal in football. If you are looking more into it, then its your fault!

I don't understand what your failing to come to terms with here, I don't want to question your upbringing because I don't know you but what in the world is acceptable about screaming swear words at someone in public?. It's the behaviour of the oath, It's also the behaviour of the coward because had it been a different or younger manager they'd screamed at that individual might not have been so quick to turn the other cheek....it's easy to shout and swear at someone who is not going to respond.